Battleground Games Forum
Games Workshop => Warhammer 40K => Topic started by: deathwatch101 on February 28, 2010, 09:42:08 PM
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ok i was just wondering cause im a blood ravens player if this variant could be used in a mega battle situation cause i was told u can make ur own data sheets
http://www.dsixgames.com/Conversions_files/Cerberus%20Data%20Sheet.pdf
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Seven Heavy Bolters for 300 points? Wouldn't want to be an Ork player playing against that... ;)
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lols true true
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Don't fight tanks with it, all you would do is waist their time having to repaint whatever tank you fought. That thing is a hord armies worst nightmare tho.
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Only HBs, no transport, 300pts. It seems fair to me. I'd be fine fighting it in a normal game as well, as I"m a dedicated supporter of this game being able to be played around with.
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I'd say its fair.
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For 300 points, it's a marked sight better than any other anti-horde you could nab for the points, save maybe three thunderfires. More durable, too. Keep in mind that five of those heavy bolters are twin-linked, AND it has PotMS. Wouldn't like seeing it across from me, but then again I'm a horde player.
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I'm not a fan. Its like a malcador but far better.
Why not use a crusader or a prometheus? Personally, I think it would be best to curb all the datasheets to the gw and bols ones.
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i wouldnt use a crusader only cause this one fits my armies fluff thats it plus i need more horde countering weapons
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Do you have the heavy bolters for it? If you have the heavy bolters I would be happy to fight it in a low (relativily speaking) apoc game. My railguns could use the practice before mega battle (no offence ment ;D).
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i wouldnt use a crusader only cause this one fits my armies fluff thats it plus i need more horde countering weapons
Did you check out the prometheus? Also, a non superheavy moving and shooting all its non defensive guns? Sure, its fine for you and a buddy but it seems like a terminus but can move and shoot. If the question is for the megabattle, I would say just use a prometheus.
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the prometheus is ok but the cerberus has more fire power
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thats called compromising. i would love a leman russ with 6 sponson battlecannons and a deathstrike missile on top, but even if i pay 600 pts for it, is not allowed. the megabattle isn't allowing self-made datasheets anyway (from what i was told).
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thats called compromising. i would love a leman russ with 6 sponson battlecannons and a deathstrike missile on top, but even if i pay 600 pts for it, is not allowed. the megabattle isn't allowing self-made datasheets anyway (from what i was told).
For the most part.
In a normal apocalypse game (or as I said, a normal game if you're playing somebody like me), it would be fine. That's the time to make up datasheets and have fun with the game. But in such a huge megabattle, the amount of self-made things need to be kept to a minimum to avoid any more confusion than is already created.
Also, remember that if a tank is better than a different one, it needs to be more points to match. And that doesn't mean just tossing on 30 more points and calling it a day.
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well yeah, in silly games, it wouldnt be nearly as much of a problem.
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I agree saying you should just take a prometheous.
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I hope I'm not coming off to harsh, just trying to keep things streamlined for the megabattle. It's pretty close to something else so it is best to not throw people off. (now crab tanks on the other hand, wtf? ;))
In a smaller game, I agree, I wouldn't mind seeing it across the field.
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dont wrry im not playing in the mega battle this just trying to get an idea for my army next year
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I plan on entering the megabattle next year alex so it doesn't matter what you make your army, mine will crush yours. Your effort=futile. ;D I can't wait to own your army. When we play we can play a game of both the non-special rule thing you have and one with them, I'm gonna get them put together this weekend and when I come on D&D day then we can play :)
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if u think so
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Actualy if you both are imperial players you will end up on the same team.
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Just because space wolves are cool doesn't mean you automatically win. I bet you could find someone who thinks space marine varient armies are bad. I would argue that my tau and Moody's blood ravens are cooler than you space wolves but it doesn't mean that either of us will win (me vs Moody exception thus far as he hasn't beatten me yet, it is only a matter of time however). Steve D. if Alley plays renegade space wolves like someone did in the 08 mega battle then she would fight the blood ravens.
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well, we codenamed this year's megabattle as "operation: cut down on dumb shit", which kinda nixed the renegade space wolves. problem solved ;D
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Look, if I buy a squeaky ball, and stand back and wave my hand and say, "Do you want the ball? Huh? Huh? Do you?" then I reckon any space wolf is going to turn traitor.
*ducks*
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I want the squeaky ball REALLY badly, don't play around about having things like that, it gets my hopes up. I definitely think so, my wolves are amazingly amazing and are gonna eat up your ravens. :D I don't think wolves will win because they're cool (even though they are by far the cooliest) I think they'll win because they're really good and any good player can beat any army, and I think I'm a good player and will win with my pups. Tau and bloodraven's=not cool. Spacewolves=badass and kickass and cool. My wolves will not turn traitor, I am painting the rune priest purple so they are focused on him, duh. :P
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Pffft, I hear they turn to jelly when someone shows up with a flamer inside a powerfist.
"How did they do that?!"
"I guess we should follow him because all our conviction in the emperor is for naught as powerfist / flamer is cooler than any golden toilet."
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Pffft, I hear they turn to jelly when someone shows up with a flamer inside a powerfist.
"How did they do that?!"
"I guess we should follow him because all our conviction in the emperor is for naught as powerfist / flamer is cooler than any golden toilet."
That could see Space wolves following He'Stan... He's got a flamer on his hand and a big stick for them to fetch....
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Spacewoles are gonna eat you in your sleep....They are house trained for sure. Spacewolves turn to jelly for nothing but bacon.
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Pffft, I hear they turn to jelly when someone shows up with a flamer inside a powerfist.
"How did they do that?!"
"I guess we should follow him because all our conviction in the emperor is for naught as powerfist / flamer is cooler than any golden toilet."
That could see Space wolves following He'Stan... He's got a flamer on his hand and a big stick for them to fetch....
The Tyrant of Badab.
He boards ships and the space puppies soil themselves. If only they knew he did not get an additional attack with his power ax / powerfist combo.
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What is cool and not cool could be argued to doomsday. Alley have you played a battle yet?I think you have but everything is theory until the fight. My plan for tau was to stay out of melee the first game. Unfortuneatly for me, I had theories which none really worked (except plas rifles and crisis suits) and I got steam-rolled by Brian. Nice to have that much confidence though ;D and good luck in your first game with your own army though you will most likely lose :-[. I think doomwatch is Moody.
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Ugh.
Trash talking about how cool Huron is makes me want to start a Corsairs Warband and play the Chaos Renegades Codex as it was intended.
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I'm not going to lose my first game.
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The only games I gave up were ones where all my anti-tank was wiped out by Brain and he had at least 3 tanks one of which was a landraider both times it happenned. Also I do change my statigy on the fly, in fact I make it up on the fly now, the only thing that changes is what I bring to kick a$$. I absolutely believe that you want to crush me, but it is more of can you beat me?
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Absolutely. There is no doubt in my being about it actually, I have full faith that my wolves will defeat your Tau. :P
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first off dan ive won games where i have a squad of troops held up in a building and my opponent has the board filled with armor troops and such
second when did this topic become who has the bigger ego all i wanted was ppls opinion on the land raider variant
and third i going to whip both u 2 into shape next time i face u so there two words for u librarian dreadnought
BLOOD RAVENS FOR THE WIN
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Ugh.
Trash talking about how cool Huron is makes me want to start a Corsairs Warband and play the Chaos Renegades Codex as it was intended.
Yup I know what you mean
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my ego=the biggest XD
I will own you Alex, just face it already. Wolves eat birds. :D
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Both games were kill points when I gave up as well as Brian already winning (they were also my 5th or 6th game). I have stopped giving up and play to the end now. Alley, you didn't nearly beat me, you were wiped out or near so and I had a Hammerhead, a HQ Crisis squad with maybe one wound (with the best stuff I could get) and Fire Warriors left.
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My wolves are gonna use your tau as scratching posts mwahahaha. :D
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I split it evenly. We each had 3 crisis one of which was HQ epuiped with the same. We each had 24 fire warriors, a hammerhead, broadside and a devilfish. I can recount most of the details Sat when I will be at Battlegrounds if you like. I have a nac for rememdering these kind of things. The part I was worried about was my fire warriors getting torn to pieces by the template railgun shot, then I blew the gun off you hammerhead.
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This new group of 40k players concerns me.
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This new group of 40k players concerns me.
Why?
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This new group of 40k players concerns me.
I agree.
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This new group of 40k players concerns me.
I agree.
QTIYD
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Concerns? Nothing wrong with smack talk as long as they can back it up...
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Concerns? Nothing wrong with smack talk as long as they can back it up...
The point is that this game can very quickly lose a lot of its fun if you design an army purely to win.
This game isn't balanced. Some armies are inherently weaker than a lot of other armies, and if you're playing to win, but happen to plunk down several hundred dollars on an army that has some inherent handicaps, you're not going to be happy.
And even if you take your time, learn which codex is considered top tier, then build a force for that army, the next codex or update to the rules can completely gimp your army.
Battlegrounds players has something of a 40k reputation for building and playing "fluffy" armies in non-tournament settings. It's one of the reasons the 40k community has grown so much around Battlegrounds.
So, yes. This kind of talk concerns me.
On a lighter note, both of you actually try making an army list based on fluff/story rather than complete domination of your opponent. Logan Grimnar doesn't have to fight in every one of your battles you know, it's kinda lame.
And incidentally, you'll probably find that your strategic/tactical sense in this game will get better playing with a weaker list.
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Everyone enjoys the game for different reasons. There's nothing wroNg with ignoring the fluff and playing a tougher army. The backlash this community has for that sort of thing and it's inability to let others do what they want with their toys is a large reason why I play infrequently.
@new players: keep doing whatever is fun for you and your opponents. Who cares what a few people twice your age want you to do. This game is about your enjoyment.
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Thx for the info. I guess u was talkin really big
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Interesting conversation.
Yes, there are different reasons and different ways to play the game. I enjoy creating my own fluff and story line, and have got gritched at by those who like to play the official story lines. I enjoyed painting up my highly irregular all female Imperial Guard, Demon and Chaos marine armies (originally one force until the rules changed). Some people like the originality, others don't.
My first army was Eldar. Lots of people recommend marine armies as first armies, but marines can be played brute force head on. Can't do that so much with Eldar. You have to use speed, maneuverability and carefully plan which of your units will engage which enemy unit. Thus I see opponents playing a much more brute force straight ahead game than I prefer. This is fine as an individual choice, less fine when the games and scenarios are slanted towards making the brute force sort of play inevitable.
I have encountered a store with a dominant clique of shooting players, where the players who chose assault armies gave up the game in disgust. I have encountered stores with dominant cliques of rhino rushers. Starting out as the Eldar player, where I can't do what is fashionable and popular at any given time, I've always been the joker, the one who designs a force to stop the fashionable popular trend rather than being part of the dominant crowd subtly or not so subtly trying to shift the culture of the store to favor their armies, their style of play. To me, playing the role of the joker seems like an honorable role, but it doesn't always make one popular. Cliques of veteran players leaning in a particular direction are not healthy for the community.
Years ago, I came up with a fluff army, the Cult of Khaine. It was basically 8 squads of Eldar aspect warriors, one from each temple, plus an Avatar. GW recently reinvented the concept as an Apocalypse data sheet. It's the only losing army I've ever played that got driven from the store with cries of cheese. Every single unit had a different special rule, unusual weapon or crazy ability. It drove opposition not used to Eldar nuts. It was also very fragile. It had no focus. I couldn't win with it. People complained loudly and bitterly as they pounded me into the dirt. Fluff, GW's or original, is sometimes interesting, but it doesn't always make everyone happy.
Anyway, not every player is pleased to game against every other player. There are painters, there are story tellers, and there are competitors. I'd like to think I'm one of many who does some of each. I've learned there are some I can't compete against, and some who paint much better or much worse than I. Some have obvious themes and stories, while others just want to deploy and start rolling dice.
I don't know that the community gains when some refuse to play against the unpainted army, when others play to win with a vengeance, using every trick in the book against rank beginners, when others work themselves into an angry frenzy upon seeing a converted model they don't like, or deliver long angry lectures upon seeing a perfectly legal force that isn't built according to their idea of the fluff.
If a given opponent isn't a lot of fun, avoid that opponent, but don't try to tell him he is playing the game wrong. Don't try to ruin anyone's fun.
New players, sure, they will be trying hard to win. They generally have to use every trick they've got to be competitive against anyone except each other. Are there veteran fluffy players who are really scared? (Insert silly school yard level taunting noises here.) In time, the new people will become old people, and appreciate other aspects of the game. The game always needs new blood. The last thing the veterans should do is close ranks and exclude. I've seen this done. The stores are now closed.
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I can see both sides of this fence. Like Ian said, people enjoy the game for their own individual reasons. Some play to have fun, and some play to win, and some do a combination of both. Being a fairly new player myself, I've seen the "fun" aspects of playing fluffy army lists, and straight out competitive ones as well. Typically, if I know who I'm going to be playing, I bring a list that I know both my opponent and I will enjoy playing with and against, but that comes with knowing your friends within the gaming community.
When I meet new players, I usually ask them first hand how "competitive" they usually play, and adjust my list accordingly. That way I don't come as an overly competitive or uncompetitive player, b/c my list will cater to my opponent's expectations.
And while Ian makes a good point about the game being about the individual's personal enjoyment, I can see Mike's concern with the gaming community's reputation being put at "risk", when there're conversations on this thread going back and forth. However, I don't think the "smack talk" going on between the forums will cause any serious damage to it. Sure, it can be demeaning, and it may desensitize what a lot of the BG players try to promote, but age and maturity aside, you're going to have gamers of all ages who brag and boast, even a little. If it ever gets out of hand, I have no doubt in my mind that either Chase or Derek would step in and set things straight, as they have done countless times in the past.
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when others work themselves into an angry frenzy upon seeing a converted model they don't like
I just want to say this gave me a hilarious image of someone looking at their opponents army, seeing their HQ or something converted in a way they don't like, and becoming incredibly angry.
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I have more fear for English than I have for the 40k community.
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BILL COSBY for PRESIDENT!!!
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Sry if I came over as overly competitive. The thing that stinks for Tau is there is little for fluff armies. Right now I kinda realize I might have been playing too competitively recently.
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I have more fear for English than I have for the 40k community.
lol :D
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true Tau lack offical fluff. Your two options are A) Commander Farsight's enclave or B) Commander Shadowsun's force. But, you could always look at it a different way, the lack of offical direction gives you free reign to take the army in your own direction.
If you prefer a certain type of army you can take the theme in that direction. You like the armored units? you can take pirhanna's, hammerheads and load all your troops into devil fish. You like the look and use of the Vespid and Kroot, you can design an army the uses minimal tau units like crisis suits as commanders to a mercenary force.
Its all up to you.
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Interesting to see how this post changed.
I'm not going to advocate one form of play over another. Ben has the right idea. Be prepared to play a game that both players will enjoy.
If you want to be uber competitive, great, just make sure the other guy/gal knows this ahead of time.
As for English, it's screwed....
cheers,
Alan
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As for English, I somehow have an A- on my progress report though that is most likely due to the fact that we have had 3 HW and 2 quizzes (all in one month, yep my class moves really slow).
I usaully play all Tau and no Kroot or Vespid because I don't really like them (I have 28 Kroot form the battleforces that I haven't bothered to asssemble). But my forces have lots of heavy support and elites (like 2 hammerheads, 3 broadsides, 6 crisis, one is HQ, in 1500pts) and low amounts of fire warriors in devilfish. I usually do this to deal with enemy armour while my crisis suits chew through termies with plas. Do you think this is too competative?
By the way, I plan to use something like this against Alley in a 2000pts game that will most likely occur this weekend.
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i watch my rematch against u dan this weekend if possible
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i watch my rematch against u dan this weekend if possible
Speaking of English... ;)
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i watch my rematch against u dan this weekend if possible
Speaking of English... ;)
Nobody was speaking English there.
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never was any good writin any eglish down as u can see
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I love competition and winning, but at the same time I am following the wolves' fluff and using pieces I enjoy
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I wouldn't go so far as to say that they "hate" competition, rather that they prefer themed armies and lists to lists that are less fluff themed. And Ally, no one is saying you can't both have fun and be competitive either. But you should be more self conscious of the way you conduct yourself with other players when talking to them on the forums or in person.
Good sportsmanship is the penultimate quality that every gamer should strive for. Because good player or not, it doesn't take much effort to be a good sport. Just maturity.
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That is a point well made.
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Ben is right, before you go an assume that the community is opposed to something I would actually engaged them in games. Right now you really only have a few experiences of playing 40k. And I am not 100% sure but I think all of those games were against your peers, who are also relatively new to the game.
You should always try to be a good sport though, I've won games against people that were bad sports and lost games against good sports. And let me tell ya, I'd go back to the curb stomping every time if my option was to play someone them or someone that left me with a bad taste in my mouth after playing.
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The majority of my games played have been against experienced players, I've only played one against a peer. I was being over the top Ben, I don't believe they hate it, I was just busting chops and being a wiseass. I have sportsmanship, I learned the hardway to get it, but I have it and use it in everything I do. If I've offended anyone in anyway I'm truly sorry, I have a competitive nature and will try and bring that down a notch, I understand I may have gone a bit overboard there. As for maturity, I am quite mature, but sometimes my competitive attitude and strong opinions get in the way of that.
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And Ally, no one is saying you can't both have fun and be competitive either. But you should be more self conscious of the way you conduct yourself with other players when talking to them on the forums or in person.
Good sportsmanship is the penultimate quality that every gamer should strive for. Because good player or not, it doesn't take much effort to be a good sport. Just maturity.
This is absolutely the truth.
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It is, and makes me feel like quite the immature jerk of the forums for having it directed at me. **feels a deep sense of shame** :'( Sorry for turning this forum into a competition and zone of immaturity. :D
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Noone's calling anyone anything, Ally. But I'm glad that you're taking something from this experience and learning from it.
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So how bout that cerberus?
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So how bout that cerberus?
Yeah, man! Seven Heavy Bolter shots! Wouldn't want to be an Ork player playing against that!
Whoa... Deja vu... ;)
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Cerberus=something to be quite scared of :)
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way to get back on topic there guys lol :) but yea i thought it was a fair thing just i was tld that there is already a cerberus being the name of abbadons tank of anihilation so technically can it still be called a cerberus
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The two tanks have to square off. Winner gets to keep the name. ;D
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The two tanks have to square off. Winner gets to keep the name. ;D
I can see it now...
Player 1: "I hit you 24 times with my Heavy Bolters, and didn't even glance you. Your turn..."
Player 2: "I hit you 24 times with my Heavy Bolters too, and.... Oh shit..."
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I must see this battle! ;D
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Abbadons is rediculous it's chasis is 3 landraiders wide and each sponson has a demolisher cannon and 10 obliterators ride it also on top is abbadons guarded by 2 blood letters with angrons stats yea I wonder which would win lol
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Didn't realize Abbadon was a completely different tank... My bad :P
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:o
I want that tank, that would be my whole army right there. :P
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I personally really don't like this tank. But that is the opinion of an Ork player, so you can guess where I am coming from on this one! All in all it seems decent, but I am still new to the game, so I am not 100% on most of the rules and their effects, so my two cents is worth just about two cents.
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my two cents is worth just about two cents.
Lol, this made my day :)
I'm in the same position, but I don't run orks, and I think the tank is deadly ;D
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The two tanks have to square off. Winner gets to keep the name. ;D
Considering Abadon's Cerberus is a 3000 point super heavy I think it wins
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Just by a little bit haha ;D
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The two tanks have to square off. Winner gets to keep the name. ;D
Considering Abadon's Cerberus is a 3000 point super heavy I think it wins
Just likeAbadon to try to sneak in that little extra advantage. :D
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I wanna see rules on this super heavy tank...
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vs infantry, what infantry? could have swore that they were there a moment ago.
vs tanks, how long did you spend buffing that tank again? how much time to repaint?
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vs infantry, what infantry? could have swore that they were there a moment ago.
vs tanks, how long did you spend buffing that tank again? how much time to repaint?
Haha, yes
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The rules on that tank where kinda pointless it was only used for a handfull of GW run battles during the 13th crusade campagin. It had such features as a cannon on the front that each round did damage to the walls of a fortress if the fortress ever lost its gate chaos automaticly wins the game. as well as abbadon and his 10 bloodletter bodyguard each bloodletter with the stats of a bloodthirster.
it had something like 6 structure points and av 14 all around basicly it wasent a real superheavy but a plot device vehicle. blow up tank before it nukes the gates and you win.
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Abbadons is rediculous it's chasis is 3 landraiders wide and each sponson has a demolisher cannon and 10 obliterators ride it also on top is abbadons guarded by 2 blood letters with angrons stats yea I wonder which would win lol
Yet it dies like a bitch when you hit it with one assault squad carrying meltabombs. ;D I would know, I killed it on its last outing at GW Harvard Square that summer. It moved only 6" a turn. Had the 9 Obliterators yes. 2 "Bloodthirster" Bodyguards And Abbadon. The problem with dealing with it was that on turn 3 a whole company of Night Lords Show up. Turns 4,6,8 It starts shooting at the Wall of the city. Options are let it hit and do damage or sacrifice the titan to deflect the shot. Additionally Players were allowed to bring ONLY 500 points. But it could be whatever you wanted.
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Yet it dies like a bitch when you hit it with one assault squad carrying meltabombs.
Ha, yes. Well I guess I know what my scouts will do if I come across one ;D
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wat jump in its way and be run over
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Psh, no. First they hit it with everything they can and hope they do some damage (which they most likely will because they're scouts ;D) and THEN they'll get run over and die :)
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First shot from scout of doom w/ melta gun:
6 to hit
2 6s for pen
6 on damage chart until death of uber tank
death by apoc explosion
has happenned in last year's mega battle but with different units and weapons (frisbee go boom) without the death and first shot tho
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my scouts=tank eaters ;D
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How about instead of this pissing contest thred you guys take it to the table top and actualy see whos good at what. This thred has gone way off topic because of this pissing contest.
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Lighten up people let them have there talk like I said before there is nothing wrong with smack talk as long as they back it up.
Yes the thread is off topic so what I like this new group they remind me of myself. Keep at it young pups.. I am enjoying this thread.
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It hasn't turned into a pissing contest, we're just being a little competitive, it's been toned down to goofin around now, and being competitive is a good thing. :)
I agree with what Grimwulfe said
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All this post fires in me is a desire to head down there and crump ya both with da boyz. :D Ya yoofs 'ave got ta learn. ;D
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It'll take a few harsh beatings to get me to be put down ;D "Yoofs" will never learn, is part of our naive nature haha :)
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Farsight would love to have some Orks to fight.
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Orks Vs. Tau=a fight I must see ;D
Doomscape, what's your name?
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Right. It has come to my attention between feasting and inspecting the mead that Alley is to fight Moonie. First and formost, gloating isnt allowed if you use your cheating codex. Secondly if the wolves loose i'm tossing you out of asaheim and you get to make friends with all the exiled wolven crawling around out there. Lastly I do indeed still play 40k, I havent turned into a retired old longfang yet. Next game i might handicap myself and not use terminators
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Haha, sounds good murph. You're quite observant to realize mooney and I are gonna play ;D. And no worries, my wolvies are gonna beat his ravens up :D
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And when all the space puppies are done beating each other up, let me know and I'll be sure to bring da ladz 'round. ;D
*tosses the squeaky ball*
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**chases squeaky ball** Haha, these pups are better than that, I don't run the baby pups (claws) so they no better than to chase after toys ;D
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question are any space wolves fearless if not i totally get the win lol im pinn ur army wif snipers of doom and telion lol
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Lol, not if I outflank you with my scouts ;D
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How did the game turn out?
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never happened
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Somehow, I expected that.