Battleground Games Forum
Games Workshop => Warhammer 40K => Topic started by: Loranus on December 09, 2011, 11:19:29 PM
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I know Tournament and its all qualifiers and stuff but I wanted to put out a List I been working on get some feedback on it see what people think.
1750 Pts - Codex: Space Marines Roster
Total Roster Cost: 1750
HQ: Forgefather Vulkan He'stan (1#, 190 pts)
1 Forgefather Vulkan He'stan, 190 pts
Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 235 pts)
9 Tactical Squad, 152 pts = 9 * 16 (base cost 16) + Meltagun 5 + Sergeant 51
1 Sergeant, 48 pts = (base cost 23) + Power Fist x1 25
1 Rhino, 35 pts
Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 230 pts)
9 Tactical Squad, 147 pts = 9 * 16 (base cost 16) + Sergeant 51
1 Sergeant, 48 pts = (base cost 23) + Power Fist x1 25
1 Rhino, 35 pts
Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 235 pts)
9 Tactical Squad, 152 pts = 9 * 16 (base cost 16) + Meltagun 5 + Sergeant 51
1 Sergeant, 48 pts = (base cost 23) + Power Fist x1 25
1 Rhino, 35 pts
Fast Attack: Space Marine Bike Squad (9#, 310 pts)
7 Space Marine Bike Squad, 195 pts = 7 * 25 (base cost 25) + Meltagun x2 20
1 Attack Bike, 50 pts = (base cost 40) + Multi-melta 10
1 Sergeant, 65 pts = (base cost 40) + Power Fist 25
Heavy Support: Predator (1#, 105 pts)
1 Predator, 105 pts = (base cost 60) + Twin-Linked Lascannon 45
Heavy Support: Vindicator (1#, 125 pts)
1 Vindicator, 125 pts = (base cost 115 + Pintle-mounted Storm Bolter 10)
Heavy Support: Devastator Squad (5#, 170 pts)
4 Devastator Squad, 147 pts = 4 * 16 (base cost 16) + Lascannon x1 35 + Missile Launcher x3 45 + Sergeant 26
1 Sergeant, 23 pts
Elite: Dreadnought (2#, 150 pts)
1 Dreadnought, 115 pts = (base cost 105 + Heavy Flamer 10)
1 Drop Pod, 35 pts
My basic thoughts with this list is to hit hard with the Dreadnought First turn whether it be taking out a large tank with Multi-melta or a Load of Infantry with the Twin-Linked Flamer. This Creating a Distraction to hopefully get my bike Squads and Infantry moved up while the Vin,Dev,and Predator can lay down some covering fire to soften up the enemy while I unload the infantry squads for cleanup.
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It's terrible, Mulvey. Absolutely terrible.
Fake edit: I have no idea what I'm talking about.
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I wont deny Chase it probably is I should probably have either 2 Preds or 2 Vindicators and right now Vul'Kan is just Chilling in the back with the Dev Squad so they dont get murdered by some assault squad.
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Something's wrong with your mathing. Tac Sergeant is listed as 51 in one spot, then 48 in the next line. The difference of 3 repeats in the Dev squad...
If you're taking Vulkan, I'd take a multi-melta in each Tac squad as well. More Multi-meltas in the Dev squad too, especially instead of a Lascannon. Consider combi-meltas on the Sergeants.
Second Tactical squad has no upgrades. If you're really running naked Marines, at least do it in a HB Razorback.
I'd remove the Vindicator to buy the upgrades you need to buy.
Drop Pod, load of infantry with flamers... Was that your second Tac squad you had in mind? Drop Pods are dedicated transports, so you can't just swap out as you please.
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Well ya free upgrades on this report thing doesn't show up that second squad has a flamer in it. The SGT thing I dont see it at all. And No I meant the Dreadnought has a Heavy Flamer on it. I was tossing around Actually what I have and/or Can afford somehow.
I just Don't think the Multi-Meltas in the Dev squad are worth it unless you pay for a transport to move them closer and then they don't get to fire every round. The Tac Squads I can see where your going with it and I agree if you get them bunkered up somewhere you can unleash some serious firepower for it.
Dont need to drop the Vindicator though if you take out the las cannon replace it with a missile launcher the Multi-Meltas are free to tac squads Combi-meltas are 10 points drop the Stormbolter you get.
1750 Pts - Codex: Space Marines Roster
Total Roster Cost: 1750
HQ: Forgefather Vulkan He'stan (1#, 190 pts)
1 Forgefather Vulkan He'stan, 190 pts
Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 245 pts)
9 Tactical Squad, 152 pts = 9 * 16 (base cost 16) + Meltagun 5 + Sergeant 61 + Multi-Melta
1 Sergeant, 58 pts = (base cost 23) + Combi-Meltagun x1 10 + Power Fist x1 25
1 Rhino, 35 pts
Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 240 pts)
9 Tactical Squad, 147 pts = 9 * 16 (base cost 16) + Sergeant 61 + Flamer + Multi-Melta
1 Sergeant, 58 pts = (base cost 23) + Combi-Meltagun x1 10 + Power Fist x1 25
1 Rhino, 35 pts
Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 245 pts)
9 Tactical Squad, 152 pts = 9 * 16 (base cost 16) + Meltagun 5 + Sergeant 61 + Multi-Melta
1 Sergeant, 58 pts = (base cost 23) + Combi-Meltagun x1 10 + Power Fist x1 25
1 Rhino, 35 pts
Fast Attack: Space Marine Bike Squad (9#, 310 pts)
7 Space Marine Bike Squad, 195 pts = 7 * 25 (base cost 25) + Meltagun x2 20
1 Attack Bike, 50 pts = (base cost 40) + Multi-melta 10
1 Sergeant, 65 pts = (base cost 40) + Power Fist 25
Heavy Support: Predator (1#, 105 pts)
1 Predator, 105 pts = (base cost 60) + Twin-Linked Lascannon 45
Heavy Support: Vindicator (1#, 115 pts)
1 Vindicator, 115 pts
Heavy Support: Devastator Squad (5#, 150 pts)
4 Devastator Squad, 127 pts = 4 * 16 (base cost 16) + Missile Launcher x4 60 + Sergeant 26
1 Sergeant, 23 pts
Elite: Dreadnought (2#, 150 pts)
1 Dreadnought, 115 pts = (base cost 105 + Heavy Flamer 10)
1 Drop Pod, 35 pts
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Well ya free upgrades on this report thing doesn't show up that second squad has a flamer in it. The SGT thing I dont see it at all.
Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 245 pts)
9 Tactical Squad, 152 pts = 9 * 16 (base cost 16) + Meltagun 5 + Sergeant 61 + Multi-Melta
1 Sergeant, 58 pts = (base cost 23) + Combi-Meltagun x1 10 + Power Fist x1 25
1 Rhino, 35 pts
Bolded.
A TLLC Razorback is cheaper than a Predator.
If you put a Dev squad of Multi-meltas up near the deployment line, 24" from that covers much of the battlefield. Most players pop smoke on Turn 1 and then aren't clever enough to get cover in Turn 2... Missile Launchers are more versatile, but it seems a shame to waste any of Vulkan's twin-linking. The only other thing I can suggest is a Dev Squad of Plasma Cannons, because you have little AP 2 in the list.
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I gotta say I'm confused as to why Vulkan's in there - sure, you have some meltas and flamers, but there's a lot of marines who aren't getting anything out of Vulkan at all. I know he's the bee's knees and all, but I honestly think a Null Zone/Whatever Librarian would probably serve you better.
I've been considering the following just for the pure fun factor:
Imperial Guard - 1750
Company Command Squad w/ 3xMeltaguns, Regimental Standard, Astropath - in Chimera w/ Heavy Flamer (180)
Platoon Command Squad w/ 3xFlamers - in Chimera w/ Heavy Flamer (100)
Infantry Squad w/ Autocannon Team - in Chimera w/ Heavy Flamer (105)
Infantry Squad w/ Autocannon Team - in Chimera w/ Heavy Flamer (105)
Special Weapon Squad w/ 3xMeltaguns
Special Weapon Squad w/ 3xMeltaguns
Veteran Squad w/ 3xMeltaguns, Demolitions Doctrine - in Chimera w/ Heavy Flamer (185)
Veteran Squad w/ 3xMeltaguns, Demolitions Doctrine - in Chimera w/ Heavy Flamer (185)
Deathstrike Missile Launcher (160)
Deathstrike Missile Launcher (160)
Deathstrike Missile Launcher (160)
Vendetta Gunship (130)
Vendetta Gunship (130)
SWS steals the Infantry Squad Chimeras or just hitches in the Vendettas. You can blow up the Chims/Vendettas if you want... but the Deathstrikes'll get ya ;)
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If I would change Vul'Kan out it would be for a Captain on a Bike so I could make the Bikes Scoring and he could chill with them.
Librarians are great and all if you run them with Termi's of some type IMHO but the List wouldn't get anything from a Librarian. Vul'Kan gives a Global Benefit from just being in your list that is incredibly good. On that list he Twin-Links 14 weapons and that is more than any other named hero can do by just being in the list. He is Just as deadly as a lib even more so if you can get him into assault somehow.
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Take out either the Predator or Vindicator, and there's points for a Librarian. Null Zone and Psychic Hood can win games.
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But then your losing a certainty for a possibility. That Librarian could win you the game or it can be useless the predator and/or vindicator do decent in any situation with High Strength and AP 2 weapon one long range one mid range. Null Zone is good I will admit wish I had it playing Deathwing last Thursday. Also wish I had a Vindicator or 2 in that match to hit his large squads of Terminators with an AP 2 Large Blast Weapon.
A New List to Include a Librarian in it.
1750 Pts - Codex: Space Marines Roster
Total Roster Cost: 1735
HQ: Forgefather Vulkan He'stan (1#, 190 pts)
1 Forgefather Vulkan He'stan, 190 pts
HQ: Space Marine Librarian in Power Armour (1#, 115 pts) Null Zone, Smite
1 Space Marine Librarian in Power Armour, 115 pts = (base cost 100 + Combi-Meltagun 15)
Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 285 pts)
9 Tactical Squad, 152 pts = 9 * 16 (base cost 16) + Meltagun 5 + Sergeant 61 + Missile Launcher
1 Sergeant, 58 pts = (base cost 23) + Combi-Meltagun x1 10 + Power Fist x1 25
1 Razorback, 75 pts = (base cost 40 + Twin-Linked Lascannon 35)
Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 245 pts)
9 Tactical Squad, 152 pts = 9 * 16 (base cost 16) + Meltagun 5 + Sergeant 61 + Multi-Melta
1 Sergeant, 58 pts = (base cost 23) + Combi-Meltagun x1 10 + Power Fist x1 25
1 Rhino, 35 pts
Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 285 pts)
9 Tactical Squad, 152 pts = 9 * 16 (base cost 16) + Meltagun 5 + Sergeant 61 + Missile Launcer
1 Sergeant, 58 pts = (base cost 23) + Combi-Meltagun x1 10 + Power Fist x1 25
1 Razorback, 75 pts = (base cost 40 + Twin-Linked Lascannon 35)
Fast Attack: Space Marine Bike Squad (7#, 235 pts)
5 Space Marine Bike Squad, 145 pts = 5 * 25 (base cost 25) + Meltagun x2 20
1 Attack Bike, 50 pts = (base cost 40) + Multi-melta 10
1 Sergeant, 40 pts
Heavy Support: Vindicator (1#, 115 pts)
1 Vindicator, 115 pts
Heavy Support: Vindicator (1#, 115 pts)
1 Vindicator, 115 pts
Elite: Dreadnought (2#, 150 pts)
1 Dreadnought, 115 pts = (base cost 105 + Heavy Flamer 10)
1 Drop Pod, 35 pts
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Loranus, I've played Salamanders and Bikes before, and here're my suggestions.
Going on your most recent list:
1. In a 1750, 2 HQ's may be a little excessive. In this case, the HQ you may want to consider dropping is Vulkan, but mostly due to what you have supporting him. A Librarian is more versatile, and adds a lot of other elements to your list that Vulkan would otherwise give you. However, if you're more inclined to keep Vulkan, then...
2. You definitely need 1 squad of TH/SS Terminators. Having TL Melta and Flamer weapons is fine and all, but you want to make as much use of his Chapter Tactics as possible. Not only that, but to me the list is also lacking a good CC unit. TH/SS Terminators will fix that. And while without a Land Raider and foot slogging, you at least have what's arguably the best foot slogging unit in the codex.
3. Bike squads, IMHO, are best when they're as small as possible. They function best as a "Run and Gun" type of unit. No need to keep them big, as it's likely you'll be focusing on taking out vehicles with them, as opposed to infantry. If you drop the 3 regular Bikers, it'll free up some valuable points for you. I'd also spend the 10 points on a Combi-Melta for the Sgt.
4. At 1750, you may be able to get away with only 2 Troop choices, but YMMV. I'd personally field only 2, and bring a couple of MM/HF Land Speeders, but if you don't have the models, then that's understandable.
Other than those things I noted, the list is fairly solid. You don't have a lot of heavy AV though, but in a 1750 list, I find it impractical to field Land Raiders. Managing to protect the side armor of the Vindicators long enough for them to get close enough to shoot will be key for this list. Hope my advice helped, and good luck!
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Thanx a lot for the Info I have 2 Land Speeders And I need to fix them up but it will be worth a shot. May proxy the pieces I need for the list to try it out and see how it works at least.
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I'm thinking of running this 1750 list and any input would be appreciated!
HQ -
MoF w/ 4 Servitors and Conversion beam
(note the MoF will let me take Dreads as HS choices)
Ironclad Dread
chainfist
2 Heavy flamers
2x hunter-killer missiles
Dreadnought w/ 2 autocannons
Dreadnought w/ 2 autocannons
Dreadnought w/ assault cannon and missile launcher
Dreadnought w/ assault cannon and missle launcher
Thunderfire cannon
10x Scout squad w/ missile launcher
10x Scout squad w/ missile launcher
10x Tactical w/ Lascannon and Plasmagun
Rhino w/ Hunter-killer missile
3x Land Speeder
1x w/ Missile Launcher/Multi-melta
1x w/ Missile launcher/Heavy Flamer
1x w/ Heavy Flamer/Multi-Melta
First round of shooting should give me 11 str 8 Missiles, 8 str 7 Autocannon rounds, 8 str 6 Assault cannon shots, 4 more str 6 blasts, and a lascannon. CC would be managed by dreads making str 6 attacks and the Ironclad making str 10 attacks. At the same time, too many dreads can be widdled down easy and there are no invuln saves here. Ideally the techmarines will have ruins to bolster and give everything 3+ cover saves.
It seems just wacky enough to work, albeit fragile and risky.
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Xcer,
I'd drop the HK Missile Launchers you have, and put those points towards Power Weapons/Fists for your Marine Sgt's. HK's are only a one-use weapon, and for 10 points/each, don't really earn much back for you. I would also consider keeping the Meltagun on your Ironclad too. Other than your Land Speeders, you don't have any other Melta weapons, and with only one footslogging Ironclad, you'd be pretty hard pressed against higher AV's.
Did you consider upgrading the Rhino to a Razorback and taking a TL Lascannon? That way you can Combat Squad, and get two Lascannon shots each turn, and still have a mobile Scoring unit.
Good luck!
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Lots of Dreadnoughts and not a Drop Pod in sight... Really, that Ironclad Dread should be dropping. And if there's sufficient anti-Deep Strike against you, you can still use the Drop Pod as impromptu cover.
I'm not crazy about the 10 man Scout Squads. I do like Scouts, but I think I'd sooner take Telion over 5 more Scouts.
Here's the most troublesome spot. Objective games. Only the one Tactical squad is mobile enough to capture/contest objectives outside of your deployment zone. And there's only that one squad in one Rhino. My Turn 1, I kill that Rhino and play the rest of the game knowing that a draw is my worst outcome.
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Well, he can in theory Infiltrate with his Scouts, onto an objective. However, it does work against his strategy of using the cover on his deployment zone. It's not a great way of capturing objectives, but it can work.
But like you pointed out, Ben, there's not a lot of mobility either. With the range that his units can cover though, I'm guessing he hopes that will supplement that somewhat.
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New list I put together After some play testing with the old list going to try it out see how it does.
1750 Pts - Codex: Space Marines Roster
1 Forgefather Vulkan He'stan, 190 pts (Unit Type: Infantry; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Artificer Armour; Digital Weapons; Bolt Pistol; Gauntlet of the Forge; Spear of Vulkan; And They Shall Know No Fear; Chapter Tactics; Combat Tactics; Independent Character)
1 Kesare's Mantle
9 Tactical Squad, 285 pts ((C:SM, pg. 59 & 134); Unit Type: Infantry; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol x9; Bolter x7; Meltagun; Missile Launcher; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Combat Tactics)
1 Sergeant (Unit Type: Infantry; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Combi-Meltagun x1; Power Fist x1; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Combat Tactics)
1 Razorback (Unit Type: Vehicle (Tank); Transport Capacity: 6 models; Access Points: 3; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Twin-Linked Lascannon)
9 Tactical Squad, 285 pts ((C:SM, pg. 59 & 134); Unit Type: Infantry; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol x9; Bolter x7; Meltagun; Missile Launcher; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Combat Tactics)
1 Sergeant (Unit Type: Infantry; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Combi-Meltagun x1; Power Fist x1; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Combat Tactics)
1 Razorback (Unit Type: Vehicle (Tank); Transport Capacity: 6 models; Access Points: 3; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Twin-Linked Lascannon)
2 Space Marine Bike Squad, 170 pts ((C:SM, pg. 68 & 140); Unit Type: Bikes; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Space Marine Bike; Meltagun x2; Twin-Linked Bolter; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Combat Tactics)
1 Attack Bike (Unit Type: Bikes; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Space Marine Bike; Bolt Pistol; Multi-melta; Twin-Linked Bolter; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Tactics)
1 Sergeant (Unit Type: Bikes; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Space Marine Bike; Combi-Meltagun; Twin-Linked Bolter; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Combat Tactics)
2 Space Marine Bike Squad, 165 pts ((C:SM, pg. 68 & 140); Unit Type: Bikes; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Space Marine Bike; Flamer x1; Meltagun x1; Twin-Linked Bolter; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Combat Tactics)
1 Attack Bike (Unit Type: Bikes; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Space Marine Bike; Bolt Pistol; Multi-melta; Twin-Linked Bolter; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Tactics)
1 Sergeant (Unit Type: Bikes; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Space Marine Bike; Combi-Meltagun; Twin-Linked Bolter; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Combat Tactics)
2 Land Speeder Squadron, 140 pts ((C:SM, pg. 74 & 139); Unit Type: Vehicle (Skimmer, Fast); Multi-melta x2; Heavy Flamer x2; Deep Strike)
1 Vindicator, 115 pts ((C:SM, pg. 80 & 143); Unit Type: Vehicle (Tank); Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Demolisher Cannon; Storm Bolter)
1 Vindicator, 115 pts ((C:SM, pg. 80 & 143); Unit Type: Vehicle (Tank); Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Demolisher Cannon; Storm Bolter)
1 Thunderfire Cannon, 100 pts ((C:SM, pg. 73 & 142); Unit Type: Artillery; Thunderfire Cannon)
1 Techmarine Gunner ((C:SM, pg. 73 & 142); Unit Type: Infantry; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Artificer Armour; Bolt Pistol; Thunderfire Cannon; And They Shall Know No Fear; Blessing of the Omnissiah; Bolster Defenses; Combat Tactics; Independent Character)
1 Servo Harness
1 Dreadnought, 185 pts ((C:SM, pg. 65 & 137); Unit Type: Vehicle (Walker); Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Extra Armor; Dreadnought CCW; Multi-melta; Heavy Flamer)
1 Drop Pod (Unit Type: Vehicle (Open-topped); Transport Capacity: 12 models; Deathwind Missile Launcher; Drop Pod Assault; Immobile; Inertial Guidance System)
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spit, thats a lot of stuff in 1750 0.0
what happened to the terminators, just not doing it for you?
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what happened to the terminators, just not doing it for you?
He has no way to get them across the board, other than Deep Striking.
Pat, I'd probably take out the Deathwind Missile Launcher from the Drop Pod. That's just on principle. If you don't have anywhere else to spend the points, then it's okay.
Other than that, I'm interested to know what difference you find between taking two Land Speeders separately and taking them in a squadron.
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The actual Reason was to fit the Second Bike Squad. Force Organization Chart only lets you take 3 Spots If I take the 2 Land Speeders Seperately I can only take One Bike Squad. Chris Had Suggested to me when I played Thursday to either Drop the bikes to Pick up a Land Raider for the Termies or Drop the Termies take another bike squad. Dropping the bike Squad wouldn't give me enough points for a land raider so I went the reverse route.
If I dropped 10 points somewhere from the original list I could put a Locator Beacon on my Drop pod though let me deep strike my Landspeeders and Termies in the back field if It stayed alive long enough but then you are at the mercy of the dice for reserves and the Landspeeders can get across the Field fast enough on their own I shouldn't need to worry about that.
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With a Dreadnought in a Drop Pod, you may want to consider taking an Ironclad instead. It comes with a Meltagun stock, and the Storm Bolter can still be upgraded to a Heavy Flamer. If you drop the Deathwind ML on the Drop Pod, it'll definitely allow the points for it.
Reason why I'd take the Ironclad over the regular Dreadnought is for the extra Attack in CC. They also come stock with Extra Armor, and have better Armor on the Front and Side. Figure if you're going to be Drop Podding down, you're likely to be within range of any vehicle or unit of Infantry where both the Meltagun and Heavy Flamer can reach anyway.
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+1 Benshin's logic.
AV 13 is just so much more durable than AV 12, more than the mere 1 point difference would suggest at first glance.
I like too that you'll have the Bikers and Land Speeders mobile enough to support the Ironclad if you so choose.
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Ya I looked at that and I agree with that decision too. The only issue with it is just budget wise for me. I can only afford atm 1 more piece and that would be either the Vindicator or the Ironclad. The 23rd I am getting my Wisdoms out so if that is Cheapest it can be I can afford to get both but I may just proxy it to try it out at first and go from there.
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It probably wouldn't be that difficult to convert a regular dreadnaught into an iron clad if you wanted to.
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It probably wouldn't be that difficult to convert a regular dreadnaught into an iron clad if you wanted to.
Yeah, with only one Dreadnought in the list, I think it's perfectly okay to say, "That's an Ironclad Dreadnought." And just remind opponents from time to time, when they're trying to make decisions.
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The land speeders take hits as a squad, correct? so if he had to distribute two pens, he would lose both speeders. Also it's possible to take bikes as a troops choice, but he would need to fit in a captain on a bike.
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The land speeders take hits as a squad, correct? so if he had to distribute two pens, he would lose both speeders. Also it's possible to take bikes as a troops choice, but he would need to fit in a captain on a bike.
Yes but its Not Nescessarily true I would lose both landspeeder given cover saves and such. And Yes I knew about Taking bikes as Troop Choices but you need to take them as a 5 man squad to do so and I don't have enough bikes to make it worthwhile to do at this point level and since were utilizing them with Vul'Kan they will all have Twin-Linked weapons making them devastating to both Vehicles, Monstrous Creatures, and Infantry.
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For those who are interested, this is the list I submitted for this coming Saturday:
HQ
Company Command Squad [6] w/ Colonel "Iron Hand" Straken, Medi-Pack/Laspistol, Regimental Standard/Laspistol, 2xLaspistols, Astropath - in Chimera w/ Hull Heavy Flamer (275)
Troops
Platoon Command Squad [5] w/ 3xMeltaguns - in Chimera w/ Hull Heavy Flamer (105)
Infantry Squad [9] w/ Autocannon Team - in Chimera w/ Hull Heavy Flamer (105)
Infantry Squad [9] w/ Autocannon Team - in Chimera w/ Hull Heavy Flamer (105)
Special Weapon Squad [6] w/ 3xFlamers (50)
Special Weapon Squad [6] w/ 3xFlamers (50)
Veteran Squad [10] w/ 3xMeltaguns - in Chimera w/ Hull Heavy Flamer (155)
Veteran Squad [10] w/ 3xMeltaguns - in Chimera w/ Hull Heavy Flamer (155)
Heavy Support
Leman Russ Executioner w/ Plasma Cannon Sponsons (230)
Leman Russ Executioner w/ Plasma Cannon Sponsons (230)
Fast Attack
Vendetta Gunship (130)
Vendetta Gunship (130)
Pretty strong infantry core backed by some fairly nasty fire support. Fitting Straken and the Executioners at 1750 required some fanagling, but with Necrons freshly released I was loathe to lose close-combat capability, and the Executioners have just been too good to me to leave out. I have plenty of scoring and I can do a number on tanks, though not as brutally as some of my meltagun-heavy lists. The trade-off is that I have a lot of cheap scoring units and I can erase disembarked infantry quite quickly. Honestly the only thing I'm really nervous about is other Guard, but unless they're also packing Straken I can usually grind them out with assault.
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The thing I'm nervous about is that I made my first Daemons list with *zero* Monstrous Creatures. It did get me thinking in new directions for Daemons.
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The thing I'm nervous about is that I made my first Daemons list with *zero* Monstrous Creatures. It did get me thinking in new directions for Daemons.
I can say honestly that I worry more about the little daemons than the big ones. The big ones just seem to die fast to Multi-lasers and such.
What did you end up going with? I can see mini-daemons working well, but I think they'd be hampered by their crummy troops. Honestly as IG I really don't fear any of the Daemon Troop selections, and I'm interested to see if you can overcome that.
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The thing I'm nervous about is that I made my first Daemons list with *zero* Monstrous Creatures. It did get me thinking in new directions for Daemons.
I can say honestly that I worry more about the little daemons than the big ones. The big ones just seem to die fast to Multi-lasers and such.
What did you end up going with? I can see mini-daemons working well, but I think they'd be hampered by their crummy troops. Honestly as IG I really don't fear any of the Daemon Troop selections, and I'm interested to see if you can overcome that.
Well I'll tell you how I'd make them afraid. I'd just park my battlebarges and strike cruisers in orbit and commence exterminatus of your planet. See simple. :)
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Long story short, your IG have little to fear from my list, barring an unprecedented explosion of luck.
Daemon troops are generally awful, so I just go with preference. In my case, Bloodletters. I like to kill things, and they can do that in assault. I did take a Horror squad because they're cheap, but their BS 3 generally fails me. Sometimes though, their 4++ save can bog down even the most stalwart assaults. I wanted to spend even less on Troops than I did.
Both choices have the remote potential to open vehicles, which is better than the other three choices of Nurglings, Plaguebearers and Daemonettes. (Daemonettes *could* with Rending, but at T3, they never live long enough.)
Basically, my list looks something like...
Skulltaker on Juggernaut
7 Bloodcrushers
6 Fiends
6 Fiends
8 Bloodletters
8 Bloodletters
8 Bloodletters
4 Horrors & Changeling, Bolt
4 Screamers of Tzeentch
Soul Grinder, Phlegm
Soul Grinder, Phlegm
You've got enough tools to deal with all of that.
I'm just curious if it'll break me out of my general pattern of "1 win, 1 loss, 1 draw".
I'd usually take Fateweaver for his crazy fun element, but he's been throwing up all over himself lately. And with his two heads, that makes for a really big mess.
I'm one crazy spending binge away from saying, 24 Bloodcrushers, each squad led by a Herald, and Kill Main Burn!
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Daemon troops are generally awful, so I just go with preference. In my case, Bloodletters. I like to kill things, and they can do that in assault. I did take a Horror squad because they're cheap, but their BS 3 generally fails me. Sometimes though, their 4++ save can bog down even the most stalwart assaults. I wanted to spend even less on Troops than I did.
I've seen good results from minimum units of Plaguebearers. Usually something like 3x5 is sufficient, if you make sure to put them far away from the action. Usually I can't spare the effort to really take them down when there's much nastier things in my face (courtesy of all the extra points you can now spend on Elites/Heavies).
I will also say that Fiends are pretty solid for charging car parks. As with anything with daemons, though, it requires a bit of luck.
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I am finally running some plague bearers and I love them. Very annoying to kill with small arms fire and anything more than that people don't want to waste on 5 man troop units going to ground plague bearers are brutal.
I like your list Ben you should do well with it. My list is very different this time around I am excited to see how it does.
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Ben, your list would KILL mine. If you deep strike your fiends 24 inches away behind cover, and then assault, i can't stop you and you can basically take out half my army with one charge.
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The players I'm up against usually have the tools to circumvent FNP. Then, even if the PBs are on objectives back out of the action, I find late game objective rushes by opponents are more often successful than not. Whether it's a vehicle or infantry, the PBs just can't kill anything. Usually things fast enough to contest are also fast enough to avoid being killed most of the game too. That's been my experience, at least. I see the math that says PBs should be hard as nails, but mine never are.
I just had this very debate on YTTH. Basically, there are strong opinions about the some of the worst Troops in the game. Which is the least worst? There's no real answer other than what happens to work for you.
To Emory's point, my Daemons HATE Tau and always over-perform. The Greater Good is almost invariably chopped into fish sticks. If I can get matched up against Tau in the tournament, then I'm good. More likely than not, I'll play Hans again, we'll be loud and boorish, he'll beat me again and I'll pretend to threaten to fake beat him up in real life. Because plastic space mans is very serious fun.
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Well considering that half that people at BG play Tau, id say you have pretty good odds
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To bad half the regulars don't play in the tournaments. ;)
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Come on Tau Players! Represent!
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Ben you can't field anything that is nurgle haha, but nurglings. Well it seems like this.
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Ben you can't field anything that is nurgle haha, but nurglings. Well it seems like this.
That's actually quite true. Not too many people can say their Nurglings killed a Trygon. Anything else Nurglish I attempt to field dies as soon as it hits the board.
*shudders at remembrance of the highly ineffective all-Nurgle list* :'(
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Alas, poor yorrik-the-trygon, i knew him well =( that was SO annoying >:( the damn things wouldn't die, and i just didn't pass armor saves!
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The players I'm up against usually have the tools to circumvent FNP. Then, even if the PBs are on objectives back out of the action, I find late game objective rushes by opponents are more often successful than not. Whether it's a vehicle or infantry, the PBs just can't kill anything. Usually things fast enough to contest are also fast enough to avoid being killed most of the game too. That's been my experience, at least. I see the math that says PBs should be hard as nails, but mine never are.
Sucky. I can see the issue with late-game contesting, but unfortunately that's something I think you just can't solve with the current Daemon codex, if your opponent is vehicle-heavy. I'm surprised your opponents can manage to spare that much S8|AP2 on plaguebearers with all the other stuff that should be threatening them, but maybe I just don't pack as much as others.
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Against the Plaguebearers, Str 8 won't do it since they are a natural T5.
Where the Daemons have trouble stopping transports, I find power weapons and power fists have little trouble being escorted across the board and have no disinclination to assault the PBs. A Las-plas razorback will have three AP 2 shots, two twin-linked, all wounding on 2+. And that same Razorback will Tank Shock it's little heart out.
So anyway, my thought is if I'm going to have only 5++ saves, I might as well have power weapons and Furious Charge for about the same price.
If the game goes to Turn 6 or 7, there's a small chance for those objecting-stealing vehicles to get got. Whim of the Chaos Gods, and all that. :)