Battleground Games Forum
Games Workshop => Warhammer 40K => Topic started by: JWebs on January 16, 2012, 02:22:33 PM
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Every army except for Black Templar and Tau have had their FAQ updated.
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?categoryId=1000018&pIndex=1&aId=3400019&multiPageMode=true&start=2
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Cool.
I wonder how Templar will do seeing as they're clearly next in line for a codex.
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Oh tau, sigh
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Yay!! Necron FAQ!! No More Conga Lines!
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well that answered all my questions.
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There are a couple boosts to Tyranids ;D
The Hive Guard change is very interesting and Shadow in the Warp affecting embarked psykers is always fun.
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Time to start the countdown for Tau and finish painting my cadre before the new codex is released.
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Daemons, ever-so-slightly nerfed.
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Nothing really new for Grey Knights, just a couple things explained that are already in the INAT FAQ
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My dark angels got screwed. They took away my scoring speeders. F'ers .
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So here's my question, if given
Q: Do enemy models assaulting a Venomthrope brood,
or another frindly Tyranid unit within range of its Spre
Cloud, have their Initiative reduced to 1 for assaulting
through the cloud? (p45)
A: No, as the Spore Cloud is not a piece of terrain.
What happens with the Sanctuary power and the Slow and Purposeful rule?
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Space Marines got 1 nerf, as far as I can tell. Can't Combat Squad out of a Drop Pod when it first arrives on the table anymore. Not a big deal, but it does change Drop Pod tactics considerably. C'est la vie.
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Space Marines got 1 nerf, as far as I can tell. Can't Combat Squad out of a Drop Pod when it first arrives on the table anymore. Not a big deal, but it does change Drop Pod tactics considerably. C'est la vie.
I can't see where it says that Benshin? I know for a while you Couldn't deploy half the squad on the table then Drop Pod the other half. But I can't read anything saying you can't Combat Squad out of Drop Pods.
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Loranus,
If you look at the question that starts with "Can you take a Drop Pod with a 10 man squad...", and then read the answer, it says "...squads that are placed in reserve may not break down into Combat Squads".
While the example in the question is for 2 very specific situations, in my mind, the answer tells me that "All 10 man squads in Drop Pods that are placed in reserve can not break into Combat Squads". One can even further extrapolate that this only affects Drop Pods coming down past Turn 1. As per rules for Drop Pod Assault, half of your Drop Pods (rounded up) all come down on Turn 1 (which don't count against what you have in Reserve). Going by RAW, I can still Combat Squad on Turn 1 from out of a Drop Pod, since technically, these aren't coming in from Reserve. Any Drop Pod with a 10 man squad coming in after Turn 1, would then be subject to the "No Combat Squads from Reserve" rule.
I guess the debate can go either way, depending on how you look at it though. I had actually heard of this prior to today, but didn't actually look it up until now. Again, it's not the biggest nerf (assuming it even is one), but it would be nice to have clarification. You'd think that with an FAQ, they'd address this... *sigh*... Gotta love GW for being so clear... ::)
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Q: When a unit of 10 Space Marines with the Combat
Squad special rule arrives from reserve as two combat
squads, can they move on from, or Deep Strike onto,
two different locations? (p51)
A: Yes.
Q: Can you take a Drop Pod with a 10-man squad and
then put a combat squad in it, deploying the other
combat squad on the table, or leave it in reserve but
not in the Drop Pod? (p69)
A: No, because squads that are placed in reserve may
not break down into combat squads
The decision to Combat Squad is when they Are Deployed. You deploy from reserves so when they hit the table they are then deployed so you can combat squad them. What They are specifically pointing to is you cant have 5 guys walk on the table and 5 guys in the drop pod they all must be in the drop pod or they must all walk on to the table. But that is how I am looking at it from the RAW I think what they should have said and again thanks for an FAQ to not be clear.
A: No, because squads that are placed in reserve may
not break down into combat squads until they are deployed.
Those 2 FAQ questions are contradictory when it comes to drop pods cause its saying I choose to deploy this half walks on the table this half drop pods in. Can't do that but it seems like you take a 10 man assault squad you combat squad which you cant do in reserves can somehow deep strike 2 different locations as Combat squads.
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Those 2 FAQ questions are contradictory when it comes to drop pods cause its saying I choose to deploy this half walks on the table this half drop pods in. Can't do that but it seems like you take a 10 man assault squad you combat squad which you cant do in reserves can somehow deep strike 2 different locations as Combat squads.
All it really means is that the entire unit must use the same method of entering the table, and are rolled for as a single unit in reserves. You can't split a unit and have one squad Outflank and the other Infiltrate. You could, however, have both squads Outflank and arrive on different sides of the table.
Benshin, the rules for Combat Squads explicitly allow you to split into Combat Squads when you disembark from a Drop Pod, so no harm was done there. The FAQ is just explicitly preventing you from having two combat squads deploy via different methods, as outlined above.
JWebs, Sanctuary explicitly mentions that enemy units treat all terrain, even open terrain, as both difficult and dangerous, so the assaulting units would still go to initiative 1 because they count as moving through difficult terrain. Similarly, Slow and Purposeful specifically states that the unit counts as moving through difficult terrain. The Venomthrope, on the other hand, simply says that assaulting units must take a dangerous terrain test. It makes no mention that they count as moving through terrain of any kind, and thus their initiative is not reduced.
Thefallen, come now, you couldn't have expected that to last all that long :P Also, I'm fairly certain vehicles are prohibited from being scoring units (unless you're extra-speshul like Grey Knights).
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"Q: When a Lychguard with a dispersion shield is hit by a blast or template weapon the template isn’t relocated. Can the hit itself still be deflected? (p35)
A: Yes."
I didn't expect this, so it seems that the blast is not deflected, but the HIT IS?
WOW.
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"Q: When a Lychguard with a dispersion shield is hit by a blast or template weapon the template isn’t relocated. Can the hit itself still be deflected? (p35)
A: Yes."
I didn't expect this, so it seems that the blast is not deflected, but the HIT IS?
WOW.
I guess it's to try and cleanly resolve when the template covers more than the Lychguard unit. So if a unit of Warriors and a unit of Lychguard are under a template, the Lychguard can save themselves, but the Warriors are not saved.
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yeah, and apparently deflect the hits at an enemy unit from a template hit. Something I wouldn't have taken from the original wording.
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Well, maybe GW just needs to move more Lychguard units. :D
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Wait so i get it straight because i wasn't aware. I play grey knights, so i can't combat 10 men termis and have 1/2 deep strike and half on the field, but i can have the whole squad deep strike and split them when they arrive. Or have them seperate on the table to begin with. or put 1/2 in a rhino or razorback and 1/2 on foot.
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Seth, best as I understand it, you are correct.
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Good thing they nerfed Lash, it was getting out of control!
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Good thing they nerfed Lash, it was getting out of control!
every one will just take warp time now
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Interesting Debate topic I heard about considering Swarms is Instant Death Template wounds.
Using Scarab Swarms as an Example they Are Vulnerable to Templates meaning they Suffer 2 wounds for every Unsaved Wound from a Template. They have a Toughness 3 so you hit them with a Flamestorm Cannon Removes Cover and is STR 6 they don't get a save from it so you have 4 wounds inflicted on them that are unsaved. Now the Issue is when do you double those wounds since they are instant death do you place the 4 wounds on models then double the wounds on the models or do you allocate 8 wounds that would kill them all?
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Interesting Debate topic I heard about considering Swarms is Instant Death Template wounds.
Using Scarab Swarms as an Example they Are Vulnerable to Templates meaning they Suffer 2 wounds for every Unsaved Wound from a Template. They have a Toughness 3 so you hit them with a Flamestorm Cannon Removes Cover and is STR 6 they don't get a save from it so you have 4 wounds inflicted on them that are unsaved. Now the Issue is when do you double those wounds since they are instant death do you place the 4 wounds on models then double the wounds on the models or do you allocate 8 wounds that would kill them all?
What?.... I'll provide a step-by-step tutorial best as I can, praying to the Emperor it answers whatever question is being asked.
Template is placed over Scarabs.
Calculate number of total number of hits.
Roll to wound.
The number of wounds is doubled, as Swarms are Vulnerable to Templates/Blasts.
Allocate wounds.
Roll saves.
Remove models, removing whole models where possible.
In the Scarab example, let's say there's a unit of 10 Scarab bases. A Flamestorm cannon drops its template over 6 of those bases, so 6 hits. Let's take the average and say 5 wounds are inflicted. Then that number is doubled to 10 wounds. Each base is allocated a Str 6 wound. Armor saves (AP 3) and cover saves (template weapon) are denied, so no saves are possible. Therefore, each base suffers a Str 6 wound. Because Str 6 is double Toughness 3, each base suffers Instant Death. The entire unit of xenos filth is purged for the Emprah.
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Good thing they nerfed Lash, it was getting out of control!
every one will just take warp time now
And it was clarified which is more of a nerf.
Good thing Chaos seems to be the only codex that has to roll to hit with it's psychic shooting attacks.
This is why I retreat to IA books.
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Interesting Debate topic I heard about considering Swarms is Instant Death Template wounds.
Using Scarab Swarms as an Example they Are Vulnerable to Templates meaning they Suffer 2 wounds for every Unsaved Wound from a Template. They have a Toughness 3 so you hit them with a Flamestorm Cannon Removes Cover and is STR 6 they don't get a save from it so you have 4 wounds inflicted on them that are unsaved. Now the Issue is when do you double those wounds since they are instant death do you place the 4 wounds on models then double the wounds on the models or do you allocate 8 wounds that would kill them all?
What?.... I'll provide a step-by-step tutorial best as I can, praying to the Emperor it answers whatever question is being asked.
Template is placed over Scarabs.
Calculate number of total number of hits.
Roll to wound.
The number of wounds is doubled, as Swarms are Vulnerable to Templates/Blasts.
Allocate wounds.
Roll saves.
Remove models, removing whole models where possible.
In the Scarab example, let's say there's a unit of 10 Scarab bases. A Flamestorm cannon drops its template over 6 of those bases, so 6 hits. Let's take the average and say 5 wounds are inflicted. Then that number is doubled to 10 wounds. Each base is allocated a Str 6 wound. Armor saves (AP 3) and cover saves (template weapon) are denied, so no saves are possible. Therefore, each base suffers a Str 6 wound. Because Str 6 is double Toughness 3, each base suffers Instant Death. The entire unit of xenos filth is purged for the Emprah.
Ben page 76 Vulnerable to Blasts/Templates : Some units are especially vulnerable to blast weapons and template weapons. If the unit is a vehicle, then each hit counts as 2 hits. If it is not a vehicle, each unsaved wound is doubled to 2 wounds.
Template is placed over Scarabs.
Calculate number of total number of hits.
Roll to wound.
Allocate wounds.
Roll saves.
Then the wounds are doubled for any saves not made.
The question comes up because your allocating 4 original wounds to models then the wounds on those models double if they are not saved. So you only would roll 4 saves for 4 units then they would be doubled for each guy does that mean the automatically allocate to a different model?
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Ben page 76 Vulnerable to Blasts/Templates : Some units are especially vulnerable to blast weapons and template weapons. If the unit is a vehicle, then each hit counts as 2 hits. If it is not a vehicle, each unsaved wound is doubled to 2 wounds.
Template is placed over Scarabs.
Calculate number of total number of hits.
Roll to wound.
Allocate wounds.
Roll saves.
Then the wounds are doubled for any saves not made.
The question comes up because your allocating 4 original wounds to models then the wounds on those models double if they are not saved. So you only would roll 4 saves for 4 units then they would be doubled for each guy does that mean the automatically allocate to a different model?
It sounds like they would roll over to other models to me...
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Ben page 76 Vulnerable to Blasts/Templates : Some units are especially vulnerable to blast weapons and template weapons. If the unit is a vehicle, then each hit counts as 2 hits. If it is not a vehicle, each unsaved wound is doubled to 2 wounds.
Template is placed over Scarabs.
Calculate number of total number of hits.
Roll to wound.
Allocate wounds.
Roll saves.
Then the wounds are doubled for any saves not made.
The question comes up because your allocating 4 original wounds to models then the wounds on those models double if they are not saved. So you only would roll 4 saves for 4 units then they would be doubled for each guy does that mean the automatically allocate to a different model?
It sounds like they would roll over to other models to me...
To me as well. This actually happened in a doubles tournament in Plainville. The scarabs were hit by a Vindicator blast (Str 10, AP 2). I forget exactly how many were in the unit, but the majority of them were hit, wounds were allocated as Ben described, and the entire squad wiped out as a result of too many Instant Death wounds. And while the situation did seem "iffy" at the time, Sam, who was officiating the tournament, came and made the final decision. We were all pretty certain that this was the case, and accepted the ruling as it was. But it didn't hurt to clarify.
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The question comes up because your allocating 4 original wounds to models then the wounds on those models double if they are not saved. So you only would roll 4 saves for 4 units then they would be doubled for each guy does that mean the automatically allocate to a different model?
Okay, now I can see what the debate is. And I'm reading the rules a bit more closely now too. (This is why debates come up, because this rulebook is dense and poorly organized.)
Page 26
"If the unit consists entirely of models that are identical in gaming terms and have multiple wounds, then take all the saves for the unit in one go."
Basically, wounds on the Scarab squad skip the allocation step, because they're all the same.
Continuing on...
"Once you have determined the number of unsaved wounds suffered by a group of identical multiple-wound models, you must remove whole models where possible."
So the Vulnerable USR interjects itself right after determining the number of unsaved wounds.
Determine the number of unsaved wounds, double that number, then remove whole models where possible.
The correct example...
In the Scarab example, let's say there's a unit of 10 Scarab bases. A Flamestorm cannon drops its template over 6 of those bases, so 6 hits. Let's take the average and say 5 wounds are inflicted. Armor saves (AP 3) and cover saves (template weapon) are denied, so no saves are possible. After saves, then that number is doubled to 10 wounds. Because Str 6 is double Toughness 3, each base suffers Instant Death. The entire unit of xenos filth is purged for the Emprah.
How's that then? :D
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I figured it worked that way. miniwargaming.com pointed out that sites were having a debate about this and it just never seemed to have popped up in my mind.
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So what's the debate then? Because it's in the rules.
Are silly people trying to keep Scarabs alive now that they can't conga with them anymore?
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The debate has been around with Tyranid Ripper Swarms and stuff but Ya I think its resurfacing because of Scarabs and the Idea of them having Cover saves and stuff. Oh Look I have a 2 Up cover save against a Demolisher Cannon that hit everything rolled 2 1s lose 4 guys.
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If they were proper swarms like Nurglings, they'd have Eternal Warrior.