Battleground Games Forum
Games Workshop => Warhammer 40K => Topic started by: J0kerr on December 01, 2012, 06:03:23 PM
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So I am looking at three armies:
Space Marines
Imp Guard
Tau
Can someone give me the run down of pros and cons of each?
Thanks
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This is what i currently know from my few battles with these types:
Imperial Gaurd: (Good for: Guys with ALOT of money (Top 5 most expensive army to be played) and a lot of Dice who want to shoot the living crud out of everything) Imperial gaurds the normal humans can fire a ton of shots, use huge groups, and basiclly kill any army if you have enough fire power, however most ground troop catagory troops cant harm vehicals in close combat or range combat, so you should bring in heavy weapons. However, if enemies bring in template weapons or very large blast weapons, its advised to take them down quickly or you will lose huge chunks of your army quickly. Its advised to bring in transports to support their weak toughness and to allow fast gunning.
Space Marines: (Good for: Players who want to shred opponents with fast and brutal strikes) Space marines are the most heavly detailed, and come in meny differnt flavors (cooking joke) . Space marines have normal strength and toughness for a baseline troop, so they can harm vehicals if their rear armor is 10. Space marines also have interesting weaponry, like chain saw swords and power fists. Space marines can if correctly used hold objects easly with loads of bullets and swords. However, space marines if fought by something that can rapid fire at vast ammounts or lock them in combat for a few turns will stop their advancment like a short stop.
Tau: (Good for: Players who want EPIC weaponey!) Tau are my favorite out of these 3, because of their vast abilities. They can ally with every race expect Tyranids, their base rapid fire range is 15 inches, and their strongest weapon the rail gun can fire twice per turn, 1 s 10 blast and 1 s 9 blast. Their battle suits have strong weapons that can obliterate vehicals and HQs, but if they dont hit they are basiclly sitting ducks. Tau arn't good in close combat because their basiclly good IG. (unforchietnly racist on this XD) Now for their biggest weakness and i cant repeat this enough... HORRID IN CLOSE COMBAT! If you get Vangard Obryon vs 9 battle suits and 40 fire warriors Obryon will win! Obryon will attack normally 10 times at Strength 7 and is weapon skill 6, and if you re-roll and fail a attack it gives him 2 bonus attacks insted of 1. Only good necron close combat guy that takes no space in the chart but lets contiune. Tau if they dont have cover will die, most dont have invulnerable saves so if you percie armor your instantly dead... and i mean it.
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So who wins the shooty games? I know space marines can shoot well, and can live to fire.
Imps can shoot better but die.
And Tau can shoot well too, but die as well.
Who would, in your opinion, be the better army for shooting the enemy to death, while being able to take objectives?
Not sure if this helps but in video games I usually play the ranger or zoo-keeper.
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What are the pros and cons of eldar...I hear they can be very shooty as well.
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After thinking about it..I might stick with vanilla marines...have my tactical squads follow their transports/vindicators, the tanks shoot and provide cover for the marines to get to cover and hold objectives..any good?
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I think a more important question, and I mean this seriously, is why you are playing 40k? The answer to that helps dictate which army I'd suggest.
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I am playing to:
1. Have fun
2. Win
3. Shoot my enemies
So I think Marines can do all of this. Is my strat of using razorbacks and vidicators as moving cover going to help with this?
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Everyone is playing for Fun (or at least supposed to be playing for fun), so we'll go down your list to Win.
Of those three, easily Imperial Guard.
I don't know how many 40k games you have watched, so I'll keep it simple for now. IG win, because they bring volume of fire. If you're set on playing with tanks, IG also have better tanks than Space Marines.
If you're looking for a power armor shooting army, Space Wolves dominate.
Tau are pretty good, in the right hands with the right list. But their codex is far less flexible.
Vanilla Marines are solid, and just that. Jack of all trades, master of none.
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So since I am no fan of the look that Imp guard brings I should play either vanilla space marines or space wolves?
Are space marines tournament competitive?
Are space wolves competitive?
Thanks
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Space Marines, Space Wolves, and any other army CAN be tournament competitive. I know that may sound cheesy or idealistic, but it really is true, you can find examples of literally every codex that has placed highly at a major tournament recently. It all depends on HOW you play them. And you will only learn how to play an army well by, well, playing a lot.
Furthermore, allies are allowed in 6th edition. So if you think Space Wolves are cool, and Ultramarines are cool, you could always paint up a few of each and use them together.
Basically I think you should just start out by reading some codexes, and finding some units that you think sound cool, and then trying to make them work. There's really not a better shortcut than that.
I guess if you want an army that hangs back and shoots a bit, I would give the edge to Space Wolves, just because they have one unit, Long Fangs, that is particularly good at doing just that. But honestly, you could make a totally shooty Marines army, or a Space Wolves army that has no long range shooting at all, and probably do pretty well with either one if you played it well.
Anyway, good luck! It's a very fun game, partially BECAUSE it is so wide open like this.
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Grey Knights and Necrons are also durable, fantastic shooters. Also very competitive.
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I know a Tau player taking Space Wolf allies. It's filthy good. There is definitely a mix-and-match component to Allies that I only now just realize is really great for new players. They can start two armies at the same time, but play all the models.
Space Wolves > Space Marines, if you're in it to win it.
Buy some Space Marines models, and why not try both? You can use the models as SM one game, as SW the next. Most opponents are nice enough to let you try such things.
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New Player Welcome.
Everyone throwing a lot of Information along absorb it and let it settle in.
Something I haven't seen mentioned and I don't know if this is a Consideration but the amount of Money and Time you have to put in to different armies. Imperial Guard get to put a lot more Models on the board than Space Marines but it also means you have to buy more models to get started with them.
Space Marines: 4 Codexes in 40k use Space Marine Models. These include Space Marines,Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and Black Templar. Space wolves come with their own models but you can easily use Space Marine models for Space Wolves. Everything for these Codexes is interchangeable with some exclusive models for each one. The Baseline of what 40k armies are based on.
Tau: Are very Solid by themselves and are considered to be a Great Allied Detachment for a Majority of Armies. Cool Models and they are looking at having a New Codex in the next 3 months.
Imperial Guard: Its an Investement of Time and Money for Imperial Guard. They bring large numbers of guys and this is reflected with the amount of models you need to buy and build. They are seen as good allies to bring Armour or Infantry to the field because of the diversity and cheap point cost.
I don't know which store you are around whether it be Plainville or Abington. Plainville has a good weekly day on Thursday that you could talk to people and they can help you out by showing you codexes, their Armies, and running you through tactics and play styles.
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For someone new to the game, and I'm assuming the hobby I would suggest space marines. They're durable, easy to play, and relatively easy to paint. And unlike Guardsmen, you won't have a ton of untainted gray sprue sitting around.
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Eldar: My god i cant beleive you said this, im a new Eldar player, so here is my pros and cons
Pros: Eldar are BRUTAL and flexable, their Wraithlord has toughness 8 and strength 10, so its a walking anti-tank, and their psychic powers are always on expect for the Farseer, so you never need to roll for those in a Warlock court. Eldar weapons are mainly anti-infentry, like the Scatter laser, strength 6 4 shots, and they have flamers that double as melta weapons.
Cons: Eldar are rare, i have never fought a single one, and Eldar are weak in toughness and strength. Unless you back them up with heavy hitters like Wraithlords, Fire pirsems or Falcons, you might see your forces flying like blood from a corpse in halo. Eldar are also great in close combat tough, Banshies have a special mask if paided for gives a initatium 10 bonus attack, but most others arnt as good.
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As cool as eldar sound..I am going with marines..since I always play the good guys who are human in everything...and I like how they look better than guard.
So how does a list like this sound:
HQ
Librarian - 100
TROOP
Tact Squad - 175 points
5 Space Marines with Sergeant, Following behind a Razorback with twin-linked lascannons and Storm Bolter
TROOP
Tact Squad - 175 points
5 Space Marines with Sergeant,, following behind a Razorback with Twin-linked lascannons and Storm Bolter
FAST ATTACK
Land Speeder with Heavy Flamer - 50
TOTAL 500
and for my next 250 I would add 2 Vindicators with Storm Bolters.
Let me know what you think
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Depending on the type of shooting you want.
Grey Knights have the all around best anti infantry shooting in volume of all marine armies. Storm bolters trump bolters, add in psybolt ammo for +1 str on your shooting and you crush your foes ESPECIALLY non power armored armies.
What Grey knights lack is elite killing shooting like plasma/melta as our codex only has that via inquisition troops which are frail and basically guardsman.
Space Wolves excel at all things because their core troop unit (Grey hunters) are relatively cheap, they are great in h2h when they get there and have great psyker defense with rune priests.
Nilla'rines are just super solid all around and have so many quality options I think their true strength has yet to be realized in 6th edition.
Dark Angels should be getting a new codex in Jan'ish.
Blood Angels are the best mechanized codex are their tanks are just superior to all other marine armies.
IG are basically a class cannon army (tons of damage, soft like noodles) allies and certain units like a large fearless blob unit can mitigate that. Very expensive army to build as the number of bodies+tanks can get staggering.
Necrons are the current best all comers army of 6th ed as well as the dominant flier army. Tough durable reliable shooting with some solid h2h choice and PLENTY of units that bring trickery to the table. All around best codex in 6th edition.
Tau are very powerful but require a very high understanding of the game and a seasoned perspective on dealing with all threats.
Everything else I will leave out as it does not seem to me these are army types you are interested in.
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You have my interest in the Blood Angels...why are their tanks superior?
And what would a good 500 point army look like?
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You have my interest in the Blood Angels...why are their tanks superior?
BA vehicles are fast. Also, Assault Squads can trade in their jump packs for cheaper Dedicated Transports.
Also, if you build Razorbacks, do not glue the weapons hatch on. That way, you can swap out and have a Rhino if you change your mind after playing, or just swap weapons.
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So what would a good 500 mech BA army look like? And where do you get regular back-packs for assualt marines without assualt packs?
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A couple of suggestions:
1. Which armies are 'good' changes relatively frequently. Also, while 40k is pretty poorly balanced, you can absolutely win lots of games with any codex, particularly if you don't mind using allies. I can't think of a single codex that I couldn't build an army out of that I'd be happy to take to a tournament (at least if all I wanted was winning).
2. Because of that, I'd chose an army based on what you like the look and fluff of. Those also change, but nearly so quickly.
3. If you're going Marines, and it looks like you are, unless you really like the look/fluff of a particular chapter (and it doesn't seem like you do), I'd come up with a paint scheme of your own and use the army for whichever chapter you like on a roving basis. That way you don't get locked in, particularly at this point when you don't know what you want to play.
4. Don't ask anyone, particularly a bunch of people you don't know on a forum, what a good list for X army is. You'll get way too many opinions to make sense of, and most of them will be wrong. Try to borrow some models and get a few games in to see what you like. Pick a few units that you know you'll want to use because you basically have to (i.e. assault squads for BA, Tactical squads for SM, and so forth). Basically, instead of trying to figure out what a good 500 point army is, try to figure out what a basic 500 point army is that will be good for learning the game, and use that.