Battleground Games Forum

Games Workshop => Warhammer 40K => Topic started by: Grimwulfe on February 21, 2013, 12:00:54 PM

Title: Building a Mountain
Post by: Grimwulfe on February 21, 2013, 12:00:54 PM
So my new display board will be a Mountain.  I plan on building it out of blue foam however I need some help.  How do I go about making the foam strong and not crumble everytime it gets hit or moved etc.  I thought of covering it in plastor but not sure if that is the best idea. 

Anyone know how to make a strong mountain?
Title: Re: Building a Mountain
Post by: keithb on February 21, 2013, 12:19:26 PM
rocks?
Title: Re: Building a Mountain
Post by: Grimwulfe on February 21, 2013, 12:25:27 PM
LOL need to keep the weight down man.  Cant be carting a 200lb display board about.
Title: Re: Building a Mountain
Post by: Sir_Prometheus on February 21, 2013, 12:30:39 PM
I think plaster would have a cracking issue over the foam, and a lot of weight.  I made my display board out of tile, matches some of my bases, maybe 20-30 lbs....it's too much. 

I think they have spray acryltic lacquer?  The kind of stuff if you've ever been to a bar, and the table is actually wooden door, but incased in plastic, that kind of stuff.  Or maybe it only comes in pour bottles, whatever. 

So that stuff is probably too smooth.  So I think they also make extra matte, roughing agent essentially, you can spray on.  Or maybe just pour sand on it while it's still wet, no joke.

SO I'm envisioning,: carve your foam, cover in a really thick layer of that acrylic stuff, roughen wither with fine sand or an appropriate spray, paint and dry brush. 
Title: Re: Building a Mountain
Post by: Grimwulfe on February 21, 2013, 12:33:58 PM
Good call I will look into that.  The plastor concerned me so that is helpful thanks.
Title: Re: Building a Mountain
Post by: Imp on February 21, 2013, 12:39:08 PM
old school science fair ways... chicken wife frame, paper mache base and light coat of plaster over it all, strong and very easy to custom sculpt as you see fit
Title: Re: Building a Mountain
Post by: Grimwulfe on February 21, 2013, 12:45:54 PM
How heavy do you think that would be?  The major issue with the mountain is strength but also I will be carving out caverns in the inside to display the army.  So I also need the inside structure of the mountain as well.  So I am nt sure if the chicken wire will work for this.
Title: Re: Building a Mountain
Post by: the_trooper on February 21, 2013, 12:47:12 PM
How heavy do you think that would be?  The major issue with the mountain is strength but also I will be carving out caverns in the inside to display the army.  So I also need the inside structure of the mountain as well.  So I am nt sure if the chicken wire will work for this.

Have you considered bondo? (also using accompanying saftey stuff)
Title: Re: Building a Mountain
Post by: Grimwulfe on February 21, 2013, 12:50:21 PM
I am not familiar with Bondo please elaborate?
Title: Re: Building a Mountain
Post by: the_trooper on February 21, 2013, 12:51:41 PM
Bondo is what is used when people want to do body work on cars on the cheap.  It's a putty like material that dries hard and is pretty light. It's fiberglass.

You can mold it and sand it anyway you want really. Just like things of that nature, can be hazardous so just use it safely.

EDIT:

Ever see a car have a baby blue section that is abutted by a grey area? bondo. Maaco is like the bondo king if you know what I mean.
Title: Re: Building a Mountain
Post by: Grimwulfe on February 21, 2013, 12:54:36 PM
Ahh ok and would that melt the foam or s non toxic enough to just bond over it?
Title: Re: Building a Mountain
Post by: the_trooper on February 21, 2013, 12:57:07 PM
In the little I've worked with it as a kid, it didn't have any heat issues in terms of chemical reactions with other things that I was aware of. It should bond over the foam without issue. It's not an aerosol type item so it shouldn't melt it either.

IIRC, it's fine in an open area but I would use a mask anyway. Sanding it once it hardens demands a mask and an open area.  A lot like working with resin but I think more dangerous in terms of fibers.
Title: Re: Building a Mountain
Post by: Sir_Prometheus on February 21, 2013, 01:51:22 PM
The virtue of the foam over chicken wire is that it's pretty easy to sculpt into rocky-type shapes, adn there's a lot of collective gamer experience in doing so for terrain.

The bondo sounds like it could potentially be a really good idea, though.  I have no experience with it but I might try that in preference to my acrylic and sand idea. 
Title: Re: Building a Mountain
Post by: Grimwulfe on February 21, 2013, 01:59:18 PM
Hmm interesting thanks for the input.  Another question I have is for adhesive.  If I build this out of foam then cover it what type of adhesive should I use to glue the many layers of blue foam I would need to get the height?  Keep in mind that it would need to still be secure even after carving out caverns in the middle of the mountain.  Previously I have just used elmars white glue but that was only on a max 2-3 layers.  For this project i am looking at more around 20 layers of foam for the height.
Title: Re: Building a Mountain
Post by: the_trooper on February 21, 2013, 02:29:17 PM
Elmers white and carpenters would probably what you would want to use. I believe superglue might heat up a little when it cures.
Title: Re: Building a Mountain
Post by: andalucien on February 21, 2013, 02:42:29 PM
Will there be dwarfs in the mountain?
Title: Re: Building a Mountain
Post by: Grimwulfe on February 21, 2013, 03:13:43 PM
Why yes there will be.

Clan Rocksmacker led by brother Thorin Dain Brokk Rocksmacker Slayer King under the Mountain.  Soon shall surface from under the earth to fight the Emporers enemies and bring death to all heretics.  All the while being fueld by dwarf spirits!!
Title: Re: Building a Mountain
Post by: PhoenixFire on February 21, 2013, 03:20:59 PM
  All the while being fueld by dwarf spirits!!

Dwarf spirits? are you Caramons supplier?
Title: Re: Building a Mountain
Post by: Grimwulfe on February 21, 2013, 03:33:17 PM
Caramons wouldnt be able to handle these spirits this shit is so strong it makes the Clans skin turn bluish multi colored like an oil slick....
Title: Re: Building a Mountain
Post by: Typhus on February 21, 2013, 04:08:19 PM
Another thought would be to do it in two pieces; display board and mountain.
Title: Re: Building a Mountain
Post by: Chase on February 21, 2013, 05:53:50 PM
Use the absolute minimum number of layers possible.  It looks better that way.

Elmer's glue.  Wood glue might work but Elmer's has been fine for us.

Use a heat gun to make the foam harder and stronger.  It's like an industrial strength blow dryer that melts the foam into like a thin, hard, plastic.  It'll protect against any bumping you'll encounter.  It also gives a pretty awesome look to whatever foam you're hitting with it.  The longer you "shoot" a spot, the more the foam melts and the more bizarre it looks.

The tops of almost all of BG's foam tables were hit with a heat gun before being flocked and painted in an effort to add strength.  It's worked out pretty well.

I don't suggest cutting the foam with any sort of hot knife or hot wire if you plan to use the heat gun though.    They melt the foam enough to make the process difficult and look weird.
Title: Re: Building a Mountain
Post by: Grimwulfe on February 22, 2013, 10:12:02 AM
Interesting good feedback so far thank you.

I was watching some vid online and they mentioned coating the mountain in Grout and using a non toxic acrylic ot epoxy resin to finish it.  Has anyone had any experiences with that stuff?

Also another option was to coat the mountain on drywall crack filler any thoughts?
Title: Re: Building a Mountain
Post by: Sir_Prometheus on February 22, 2013, 10:43:50 AM
Was the acrylic clear?  That sounds like what I was talking about.

Drywall spackle would be crumbly, I think. 
Title: Re: Building a Mountain
Post by: the_trooper on February 22, 2013, 10:47:21 AM
Crumbly and heavy.
Title: Re: Building a Mountain
Post by: Grimwulfe on February 22, 2013, 10:48:40 AM
It was a spray acrylic that he added pigment to so I would assume it started clear.

Also another question as i usually use blue foam from Home depot for my projects.  What foam would be recommended for something like this?  Would I layer the Blue foam call Formular foam (blue foam) or use EPS which is the blocky whit stuff?
Title: Re: Building a Mountain
Post by: Grimwulfe on March 01, 2013, 04:57:58 PM
Does anyone have a foam wire cutter I can borrow?  I need the one with the 2 prongs and the middle wire so I can do scoops to shape the mountain.  the hot knife isnt cutting it!! LOL
Title: Re: Building a Mountain
Post by: Chase on March 01, 2013, 07:43:54 PM
Shoot Derek an email and ask if you can borrow it.  I'm sure that if he knows where they are he'll let you use one for a while.
Title: Re: Building a Mountain
Post by: Grimwulfe on April 22, 2013, 11:54:21 PM
Sneak peak of the Mountain...  The Clan is coming!

Let me know what you think so far.

To Scale Pic
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a167/Rocksmacker/20130422_220058.jpg)

Random pics
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a167/Rocksmacker/20130422_214535.jpg)

(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a167/Rocksmacker/20130422_214458.jpg)
Title: Re: Building a Mountain
Post by: PhoenixFire on April 23, 2013, 08:09:27 AM
Thats pretty awesome. You might consider adding some led lighting so everything inside will be visible in a dark game store or function hall.
Title: Re: Building a Mountain
Post by: Erich on April 23, 2013, 08:20:43 AM
Looks great.

one thing I did was to mix elmers with some fine sand and then brushed it over all of my rock terrain pieces (that were made out of insulation foam). This gave it a hard surface that is durable as well as providing texture.

Title: Re: Building a Mountain
Post by: Grimwulfe on April 23, 2013, 09:38:17 AM
Erich thanks for the idea!

On the lighting issue I will be using electronic tea lights placed in braziers on the inside to give it a lighted by fire effect.

Also another thing I want to do is paint in a mural on the back wall of the mead hall and light it with the same flameless candles and so on.
Title: Re: Building a Mountain
Post by: Pat.H on April 23, 2013, 09:53:11 PM
The Dwarf Fortress is coming along nicely. I am curious as to how you are going to fit your army in it once you add the 50+ plus cat models needed to make it authentic.
Title: Re: Building a Mountain
Post by: Grimwulfe on April 24, 2013, 09:21:53 AM
Thanks and I dont understand the cat reference.

However I do plan on building a bar on the inside accross from the throne and adding in man wall decorations and maybe pillars on the inside.  Still debating the pillars however as they arent needed structuraly and could block LOS to the models inside.
Title: Re: Building a Mountain
Post by: PhoenixFire on April 24, 2013, 09:55:27 AM
Thanks and I dont understand the cat reference.

However I do plan on building a bar on the inside accross from the throne and adding in man wall decorations and maybe pillars on the inside.  Still debating the pillars however as they arent needed structuraly and could block LOS to the models inside.

you could always do half pillars along the sides, shouldn't block los very much
Title: Re: Building a Mountain
Post by: Grimwulfe on April 24, 2013, 10:27:52 AM
Ahh good idea once I get the mead hall put in place ill know more about spacing which will give me a much better idea on how the army fits inside and how much space I have for additional structural elements.

Title: Re: Building a Mountain
Post by: the_trooper on April 29, 2013, 07:21:46 PM
Have you seen this?

https://plus.google.com/photos/104166497758672399338/albums/5798577124973159393?banner=pwa (https://plus.google.com/photos/104166497758672399338/albums/5798577124973159393?banner=pwa)
Title: Re: Building a Mountain
Post by: Grimwulfe on April 29, 2013, 10:22:15 PM
That is pretty badass.  My dwarves are drunks though not miners LOL... 
Title: Re: Building a Mountain
Post by: Grimwulfe on August 22, 2013, 08:56:07 AM
At last an update that I feel worthy of sharing.  With NOVA comming along it has kicked me in the ass to get the mountain complete.  I am still working on decorations but have gotten base coats, initial placements, kegs, tapestry and lattice works put in place. 

On the menu still are 30 shields for wall mounts, 9 banners and 3 memorials for fallen warriors.  Them I wil lneed to seal the entire thing which is proving a most difficult challenge.  What do I use that I can get in the next 2 days?  Any suggestions would be great, im looking for something that is going to harden the surface and seal everything.

Now for Progress Pics:

Mountain ready for paint
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a167/Rocksmacker/20130802_195359.jpg)

Mount Krakernak pre decorations with lattice works and braziers
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a167/Rocksmacker/20130821_173748.jpg)

The mead hall starts to take shape
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a167/Rocksmacker/20130821_182852.jpg)

Lattice works and easter egg dwarf for scale
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a167/Rocksmacker/20130821_183022.jpg)

Layout of drill bay with crate formation starting (pre-Paint) for Dreadnaught station
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a167/Rocksmacker/20130821_183031.jpg)

Some may recognize the art work but this is a close up of the tapestry in the back of the mead hall
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a167/Rocksmacker/20130821_184446.jpg)
Title: Re: Building a Mountain
Post by: Sam Butler on August 22, 2013, 12:04:33 PM
Looking good so far.
Title: Re: Building a Mountain
Post by: Grimwulfe on August 27, 2013, 09:15:59 AM
Mount Krakernak is now complete!

Added white highlights to rock face to give it better texture and striking color to match all bases within army
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a167/Rocksmacker/20130826_220303.jpg)

The mead hall complete with fire pit and special kegs for Thorin Dain Brock Rocksmacker the Slayer King.  (Drunken dwarves hanging shields oh boy)
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a167/Rocksmacker/20130826_220311.jpg)

The Drill bay complete with banners, industrial grime and Dreadnought station.  Adjusted smoke plumes and added shields to braziers (close up of latice works)
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a167/Rocksmacker/20130826_220318.jpg)

Close up od brazier and smoke plumes
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a167/Rocksmacker/20130826_220339.jpg)

Some of the banners that adorn the walls of the drill bay.  4 banners on the back wall spell out RUSS
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a167/Rocksmacker/20130826_220344.jpg)

Special Kegs (the Kings Brew) painted by my little girl Freya! She wanted to have something within the mountain.  (Easter egg there is a banner on the left wall that says Freya protect us)
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a167/Rocksmacker/20130826_220359.jpg)
Title: Re: Building a Mountain
Post by: PhoenixFire on August 27, 2013, 09:23:27 AM
Looks good Troy! Hope the NOVA hall isn't too dark so everyone can see all the back detail
Title: Re: Building a Mountain
Post by: Grimwulfe on August 27, 2013, 09:55:32 AM
The firepit and braziers have flamesless tea lights in them for lighting.  Also I have several more lights to put behind army to light up back without being seen.  It will be dim but lit up well.  As a secondary option I picked up some LED hockey pucks I can put in the back to light everything up to a bright level.
Title: Re: Building a Mountain
Post by: andalucien on August 27, 2013, 09:59:40 AM
Wow, it's really coming together now.  Very cool vision :) 
Title: Re: Building a Mountain
Post by: Grimwulfe on August 27, 2013, 10:42:18 AM
Thanks guys.  Alot of my vision changed in conception of this idea and I tried to just go with the flow.  Overall I am extremely happy with how it went.  And the experience was amazing. 

Not sure I will ever go to this extent again but Clan Rocksmacker deserves only the best!!
Title: Re: Building a Mountain
Post by: Grand Master Steve on August 27, 2013, 02:09:35 PM
that's just awesome dude! I cant wait to see it in person some time
Title: Re: Building a Mountain
Post by: Grimwulfe on August 27, 2013, 02:32:55 PM
Thanks man.  Whatever the next tourny at BG is ill be there.  (except of course for this one comming up as I will be at NOVA)