Battleground Games Forum
Games Workshop => Warhammer 40K => Topic started by: PhoenixFire on March 28, 2013, 03:23:43 PM
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(http://www.jennhoffman.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Never-Go-Full-Retard.jpg)
GAMES WORKSHOP, KINGS LYNN wrote:
Within the next few months you will notice a few changes to your local Games Workshop. The first of these will be arriving in the next couple of weeks.
The most important of these changes is that we will be bringing to a close our open gaming. This is great news as it inevitably means that you local store will be hosting fantastic new activites and events designed to give you a whole host of new hobby challenges and our trained staff will be on hand to support you and make sure that you get the most out of this awesome new programme.
I am sure that many of you will have already noticed a huge surge of GCN clubs we have recently been helping promote and start. We have done this to ensure that all your current hobby activites are continued to be supported in appropriate locations available to all.
Finally I wish to allay any fears or rumours some of you may have or have heard. Namely that Games Workshop is "getting rid of its regulars". Please do not be concerned as this is not the case. GW intends to support ALL of their collectors be they new or old, and the coming changes are entirely geared towards us being able to do this for now until forever - YOU ARE CATEGORICALLY NOT BEING TOLD TO LEAVE.
I know that some of you may have questions after reading this, please do not post them below - instead please talk to a member of staff.
Hopefully you trusted me in Kings Lynn, and I ask you trust me now, this will be a great an wonderful journey for the store (there is going to be some seriously cool stuff coming) and as ever we have all your best interests at heart.
Thank You
source http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?30607-GW-Ends-Open-Gaming-in-Stores
Good news for stores like Battlegrounds who are in the same area as a GW store since it seems GW is doing everything they possibly can to push their customer base away.
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So ignoring all the corporate double speak, I really have no idea why they would do this. Isn't people playing in the store a great advertisement? I doubt it really costs that much, and is the epitome of "loss leader".
Is their plan to have all the local hobby stores support their customers for them with play space, and drive as much business as possible to them directly through the internet? (I'm mostly think of miniwargaming, and how he said more models were getting pushed to Direct Only, and stores would be limited to purchases of $500 of direct only) I can see how they would like that, but how do they think that works in any way long term?
Worse is really the image problem--doesn't it look hypocritical as hell to say "Here Hobby store, you really should let people game on your retail space bu we'll have nothing to do with it"
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just a question, has Warhammer 40k used stickers for insignias, or is that a recent development to attract "a younger crowd"?
(i recently started and inside the Dark Vengence you could paint the figurines AND thier insignias, not just paint the entire thing one solid color and lazily place the stickers on them)
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The sticker thing has been around forever to me at least. They were just a quick easy way for people to put major chapter insignias and have them look decent. I myself have never used them I have a whole stack of them at my house.
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The adult hobbyist term is "decals" Completely different. :P
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Yeah I would be interested in hearing an explanation for why GW is doing this. Nothing is occurring to me. Not that it makes much difference to me, never having even seen a GW store.
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Unbelievable.
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I'm not entirely sure what this even really means.
The only way I'd consider telling people that open gaming at Battleground is no longer allowed is if I had some massive, awesome, super sweet schedule of "events" from open to close every day that was going to take up the entire store.
I'm sure the dude has some good ideas, but I don't really see how this can really even happen. If I show up with a buddy looking to play a game, will I be told no? Are they getting rid of their tables? If they're getting rid of their tables, wtf can they really have going on? Maybe the store is super tiny and only has 2 tables to begin with?
One thing that is absolutely a fact is that GW is slowly pushing more and more sales to their website, which is unfortunate and short sighted (like everything they've been doing recently). It's such a bummer because they are seriously awesome to work with here in the states. My 10 minute convo with GW every week is by far the most enjoyable work related phone call I make (and there's a lot of them).
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meh untill GW gets their heads back down to earth, i think im done buying from them and going back to hordes. just bought me new rule book and ordered models. Maybe in a couple of months GW will see the error of their greedy ways.
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It's probably partly because GW doesn't want its staff being conned into running a daycare. Having a bunch of unsupervised kids running around your store can be a massive headache.
Online business is the future, the demographics are literally limitless and also has no overhead. I imagine they will eventually sub out the new player recruiting aspect to the indepentant retailers, and exist solely to sell and distrube their books and models. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't think Privateer Press has its own stores. Either way it doesn't effect me or my enjoyment with the Warhammer games.
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It's probably partly because GW doesn't want its staff being conned into running a daycare. Having a bunch of unsupervised kids running around your store can be a massive headache.
Online business is the future, the demographics are literally limitless and also has no overhead. I imagine they will eventually sub out the new player recruiting aspect to the indepentant retailers, and exist solely to sell and distrube their books and models. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't think Privateer Press has its own stores. Either way it doesn't effect me or my enjoyment with the Warhammer games.
I really hate it when parents treat shops like day cares
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If it's a question of being free babysitting, it would be easy to set a minimum age for unaccompanied minors; say 16.
Bear in mind also that in the UK there are relatively few independent FLGS; GW has largely replaced them, and is all over the place.
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meh untill GW gets their heads back down to earth, i think im done buying from them and going back to hordes. just bought me new rule book and ordered models. Maybe in a couple of months GW will see the error of their greedy ways.
Hmm... Yah. I was involved with 40K for quite some time. They have always been considered Full Retards, and have yet to see the error of their greedy ways. Lots of folks have been waiting for an attitude adjustment for quite a while. I guess you are allowed to hope. For the most part, I'm doing FRP these days.
Has there been a real problem with free day care locally? I've seen quite a few younger players in other stores. For the most part, those old enough to get into 40K seem to be self day caring so long as they have a model to assemble or an opponent to fight. The major store staff time consuming factor used to be impossible to interpret GW rules resulting in perpetual disagreement, and I'm not sure if the kids were more or less confused than the adults. They hopefully might buy enough stuff that the day care isn't really free?
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Day care is a complete non-issue in Plainville. I'm fairly sure it's not an issue in Abington either.
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day care was a problem at one time in Abington years ago
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Since the disappearance of Yu-Gi-Oh, daycare has been a non-issue.
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From what I have read and understand this "policy" is only for ONE store...the Kings Lynn store.
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From what I have read and understand this "policy" is only for ONE store...the Kings Lynn store.
That's what I took from the article too. I wonder what they've got planned.
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Some GW stores in England are about 400-600 square feet and have 1 employee; and are open 5 or 6 days a week for 30-45 hours total. This looks to be one of those tiny stores.
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People can say what they want about GW, fact is they make the best rules, models, and fluff. If anyone ever read the fluff for Spartan Games or Privateer Press, it looks like 6th grader fan fiction. GW produces the absolute highest quality models (check out the new High Elf Phoenix in the fantasy thread, friggin amazing) and the rules are pretty addictive too. GW has more competition now sure, but they are still king of the ring for tabletop games.
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People can say what they want about GW, fact is they make the best rules, models, and fluff. If anyone ever read the fluff for Spartan Games or Privateer Press, it looks like 6th grader fan fiction. GW produces the absolute highest quality models (check out the new High Elf Phoenix in the fantasy thread, friggin amazing) and the rules are pretty addictive too. GW has more competition now sure, but they are still king of the ring for tabletop games.
I do like the GW fluff better, but I find the rules for warmachine/hordes to better designed by far, and the various factions are much better balanced against each other as a whole. The way they handle new releases are also superior, in my mind.
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I agree about the fluff and models, but not the rules. I think privateer and Wyrd are both way better at writing rules, and there are probably lots of other wargames I've never played (e.g. Battlefront, Dystopian wars, Dust) that rules I would prefer as well, and are much better in the objective sense of number of ambiguities and loopholes. But I am a sucker for the models so I'm sticking with GW.
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People can say what they want about GW, fact is they make the best rules,
Um, what? GW is the singular worst example of rules writing possible. I'm talking most indie RPG's, which are not in any way competitive endeavors, and usually house ruled as you wish, have clearer and less contradictory rules.
and fluff
What 40k has is a decent concept. Gothic, grim dark, everything is spiraling down the drain in an interesting way, fantasy in space.
The fluff is absolute crap, though. Nearly every account of a Space marine, including the Horus Heresy, they are overgrown man-childred. Not people, not isolated zealous murderers, either, or genetically engineered warriors whose psyche and emotions have also engineered -- no, they're soap opera style, whiney, self-obsessed, 8 foot tall, children.
Seriously, Horus, supposedly one of the most perfect people in existence, was susceptible to chaos because he wasn't getting enough attention from his daddy.
No one does anything for logical reasons, or shows any character development that is not downward.
Anyone who has ever used a chainsaw will realize that a chain sword is a ridiculous, near useless weapon.
Most of the pivotal moments of the Horus hersey boil down to "a wizard did it" and are hilariously dumb. Even from the beginning, seriously, chaos gods teleported 20 primarchs across the galaxy? A) If they could do that, why not kill them B ) If they can do that, what can't they do, C) If Chaos gods lay their hands on something, you really just need to consider that shit coruppted and burn it, ALL the fluff indicates that.
I think most of this stuff originated when the writers were themselves in highschool. It started childish, and in trying to be reformed by adult writers, became sophomoric.
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I don't think we should be expecting like real literature as the fluff for our wargames :) That's just impossible because why would someone who has a real literary vision be writing fluff for a wargame? I'll settle for decent action blockbuster type fare, and I think GW does a good job of that.
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Comparing the rules between 40k and War machine is like comparing My Little Pony to Texas Chainsaw Massacre. They are both war based mini games but one is about small skirmishes while the other is large based armies. War machine has an easier time since they need to worry about only a few models on the board at anytime and how they interact together. Warhammer has to worry about large scale armies working well by themselves as well as against every other army. War machine is clear and precise really cause they have very few differences between forces for special rules.
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Comparing the rules between 40k and War machine is like comparing My Little Pony to Texas Chainsaw Massacre. They are both war based mini games but one is about small skirmishes while the other is large based armies.
That is true, but also has nothing to do with it. Warmachine has made a dedicated to make things clear, precise, yet easy to understand. The same principles could easily be applied to larger scale game. Each unit in warmachine usually has a larger array of options available to it than a 40k unit, particularly the characters and warjacks. Warmachine is probably actually a slightly more complex game.
Warmachine has set itself up with a very technical system where there can be no ambiguity, much like Magic the Gathering or D&D 3.5. Additionally, because that technical system can be hard to wrap your head around at first, they'll often have plain-language descriptions such as "yes, this means that".
GW could easily choose to do all those thing, they just ffing don't, because they're a "model company, not gaming rules company". WTF.
Consider, GW has like 3 different terms for "removed as a casualty", leading to much confusion, because people will argue "killed" or whatever is different. ANd of course, "removed from the table" IS different, so it's even worse because we have the illusion of precise indentifiers, but they don't actually use them very consistently. PP by conparison has terms like "boxed" which doesn't just refer to dying, but a specific stage in dying. (healing, resurrection, taking souls, using the corspese all happens at different stages)
Or, here's a favorite, consider the turbo-penetrator round of the Vindicare. All it says is that it rolls "4d6 for Penetration". I think most people, particularly newbies, think you should roll 4d6, then. yielding and average roll of 14. Meaning you'd glance a Landraider 50% of the time. But that's not it at all. You see, you have to realize it's a sniper, so it starts with a str of 3, so the pen roll is 4d6+3. Except, even that's not true, snipers are RENDING, and rending adds a d3 for each "6" you roll. On which die? ALL OF THEM. So the real pen roll is 4d6+3 with exploding 6's, meaning you're really unlikely even to fail to pen the highest AV in the game.
I'm pretty sure that's intended. (mostly cuz they haven't clarified in 2 years) But you have to know 3 different rules, really kinda math it out to realize, and do a bit of rules lawyering besides.
Privateer press rules can sometimes reference 3 other rules like that, too, but A) It's completely unambiguous that's how it works, and B ) in case you didn't realize, they'd have a little box telling you "hey, all this means that it's 4d6+3, with an extra d3 for 6's".
GW could easily do that, but they never do. And that's crap, utter crap.
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My Cygnar army hits the table with more models than most paladin GK armies.
Just sayin'.
Also, I was going to post something about rules and clarity but I think Sir_Prometheus covered it pretty well.