Battleground Games Forum
Miniature Games => Warmachine / Hordes => Topic started by: Ian Mulligan on July 09, 2008, 12:04:49 AM
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(Here's a link to the main post about the Armies of Immoren project: http://www.battlegroundgames.com/forum/index.php?topic=62.0)
I've been playing Warmachine since 2002 and with the exception of a short stint playing Cygnar for a few weeks last year, I have never touched anything outside of Khador. When my fiancee decided to get into the game, I thought this would be the perfect time to finally pick up a second faction. After days of deliberation, jumping between Cryx, Trollbloods, and the Protectorate, I made my decision.
The most challenging games I've ever played in Warmachine were against seasoned Protectorate players. The synergies the army generates can make even the lowliest of warriors take down armored behemoths. Many of their warcaster's spells have so many uses, it takes months to pick up on the nuances. Beyond that, the faction has some of the best beatsticks in the game. The possible synergies, finesse, and access to some brute force adds up to a faction I am pretty excited to be starting.
A 350 point list forces a lot of compromise and I knew when I started writing it that a lot of units I wanted to use would have to sit out for a month or two. Picking a warcaster was ESPECIALLY hard. The High Reclaimer, Grand Exemplar Kreoss, and the brand new High Executioner Servath Reznik are all awesome. I narrowed it down to the High Reclaimer or Reznik. It was a tough choice, but Reznik's brute force and 'jack love made him win out in the end. The list I finally decided on was decent balance between models I want to use RIGHT NOW and things that are legitimately good at the point level we'll be playing at. Here's what I'm planning on starting with:
High Executioner Servath Reznik
- Redeemer
- Revenger
Vassal of Menoth
Choir of Menoth (5)
Holy Zealots (10)
- Monolith Bearer
Total: 350 exactly!
Let's do a quick rundown on why each unit is there.
The Redeemer
Reznik's Brand pretty much just begs your force to include at least one Redeemer. Boosted attack and damage rolls against one unit make this 'jack's ROF 3 missile launcher a true terror. Two points of focus will net us 3 fully boosted attacks against a unit or model affected by Brand. Totally, totally awesome. I can't wait to blast some pirates with this guy.
The Revenger
Arguably the best 'jack the Protectorate has access to. For 76 points, you get an Arc Node, Powerful Charge, and a shield that repels attackers. Add to that a decent P+S spear and you have an all-arounder that can take full advantage of Reznik's movement enhancement and extend the range of some of his spells.
Vassal of Menoth
This was not initially a priority to fit into my 350, but I found myself with exactly his point cost left over, so in he went. The Vassal's ability to let a 'jack make a free melee or ranged attack for his low point cost makes him worthy of consideration in any 'jack heavy list. Here, he's going to let me fire more missiles or force the opponent to spend time on a 19 point solo.
Choir of Menoth
The 'jack enhancement continues! Their prayers can really up the output of damage from my side of the table. +2 to hit an damage makes both of the 'jacks absolutely lethal when combined with Brand, while the other prayers offer the lightly armored 'jacks some safety from ranged attacks.
Holy Zealots w/ Monlith Bearer
Okay, well, I had to. These guys are probably the best unit the Protectorate can bring to the table. Their bombs can drop 'jacks or wipe out full units of infantry. The monolith bearer adds much needed survivability to the unit. Not really in theme with the rest of my warjack loving list, but so effective I couldn't help myself. Plus, they're one of the units that drew me to the faction!
This seems like a pretty beefy list. I'm interested in seeing how it does against my opponents. I think the Circle's speed will be difficult to deal with, as will the sheer number of attacks privateers are capable of throwing out with their basic troopers. Reznik's medium base makes him harder to hide, so a few lucky shots may be all it takes. Let's hope those missiles do their job, first!
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Definitely an intimidating list.
I hate frikin zealots.
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I've started painting Reznik and he's coming along, albeit a little more slowly than I'm used to. The sandy whites of the Protectorate take a lot of thin coats. Same with the reds and brass I'm using. It's a big change from the quik and dirty Khador scheme I'm used to.
My method of painting really doesn't lend itself to photography. I work pretty chaotically, moving from color to color and tie it all together with inks. This makes for one super ugly model up until the end. I'll pos tcompleted model pics, but there will be no works in progress shots.
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But pictures of the model while it is still super ugly are the whole POINT of progress photos!
What's the fun in not posting ugly things on the internet?
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Well, its hard to see the progress I'm making because its such a mess. If I worked in anything that could resemble stages, I would gladly take some photos. Seeing me paint brass, then 4 other colors, then coming back to a few sections with brass again, then again after 3 more colors is pretty boring.
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Not sure it would be that boring. Despite it seeming haphazard I think it would be interesting to see the progress.
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Here he is. 8 hours of painting, inking, and basing. He's probably my favorite model I've painted to date, and maybe my best.
(http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/6303/reznikxq0.jpg)
I totally suck at taking pictures. Sorry its so washed out.
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That's REALLY good, Ian. Nice job!
Lots of detail on that model... It must have been a pain to paint up like that. Eight hours seems like a really low amount of time too. Nice.
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WOW!!!
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That totally rocks. Excellent painting.
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That's sweet. Nice metal work and I enjoy the handwriting on the parchment.
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wicked paint job and i have to also point out the excellent job on taking the photo. a good model photo can help the mini more then even the paint job itself
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I re-read your list. Besides lots of bombs I am not sure how I will deal with 4 rockets a turn until I close distance. The witch coven would just grant stealth but Terminus doesn't have any way to make the bane nights or Seether much more survivable while they close. Tough might help a little but it is not very reliable and getting one model knocked down slows the unit down a LOT.
Hmmmm...
Actually terminus getting hit with missiles may be a bigger problem. What is the POW on those? 3-4 boosted missiles before I can reach them... ugg.
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They're POW 12, but with the Choir it jumps to POW 14. Keep in mind they're working off an effective RAT of 0. Though the +2 from the Choir and extra die from either Brand of Heresy or just boosting makes them a little better, but not much.
To be honest, I'm really not expecting direct hits. I'm hoping the blast damage takes care of your horde of knights. If I nail one dead on, that's awesome but not required.
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No nailing him or his jacks with magic plus a 17inch rough terrain charge range.
Killing off my focus hurts a lot too.
Hoping a Seether + Demoniac + Terminus = Dead religious freak.
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I've been working on my Redeemer, Revenger, and Vassal. I'll have WIP shots up soon. This color scheme is definitely not getting easier.
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Forget WIP shots. I finished the 'jacks and the vassal! Beware, the color is off a bit on this one. The red looks more like magenta and its highlights were washed out. These guys look a lot better in person.
The new stuff!
(http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/8870/jacksandvassaluv9.jpg)
The battlegroup!
(http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/569/battlegroupgd5.jpg)
All I have left are the Zealots and the Choir. I should be done in a week or so.
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I know you're painting skills are above reproach (to put it mildly) but this is even more incredible than usual for you. Rock on!
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Lookin' great Ian!
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Steph and I played a game over the weekend to test out our 350 point lists. Pretty much all I learned from that outing is that 10 Zealots with a Monolith Bearer might be a little unfair in a low point value game.
Aside from that, there isn't a lot to go over right now as all the minis did their jobs. I definitely need to get used to these arc node things Khador doesn't have the money to produce. Plus, Reznik has a lot of useful spells. Between them and the jacks he likes to run, I'm definitely feeling a little tight with his focus rating of 6.
I'll be typing up a battle report of our next game later this week.
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No updates from me for a bit. I'll be in Portland for the next week.
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I am totally bogged down right now. Painting full units is way more time consuming than 'jacks and solos. I'm like 7 hours into my Zealots and I'm probably close to 70% done. Uhg.
I have a full unit of Idrians coming up at 750 points and a unit of Flameguard in the future as well. Certainly not looking forward to them right now.
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Oh man, don't get me all depressed about painting. The Bane Knights are almost ready for priming and painting, as are the rest of my models. Looks like the rest of the month will be a rush of painting.
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There's a huge difference between 11 Zealots and 8 Bane Knights. You'll be fine.
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Their are 14 Bane Knights being painted.
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The Cygnar base set is primed with the 1st coat of the steel gray on the metal. I'm also filing and smoothing out a unit of Arcane Tempest Gun Mages for priming with a unit of Long Gunners on order. Hoping to hit the Jacks tonight with the base coat of blue.
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Ive managed to play a few games in the last week and learned a lot.
1. FOC 6 is rough when running 'jacks and slinging spells. There just isn't enough to get everything done.
2. Protectorate warcasters need a softer target when attempting to assassinate on their own. While Reznik is tough, he's no Butcher.
3. I desperately need melée troops. The game gets very hard when my zealots get engaged.
4. I need more jacks for Brand of Heresy to be totally worth casting.
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Its crunch time here in Quincy. Steph and I have been painting all weekend to make the deadline we set. Despite a fair amount of work still ahead, I think we'll be able to make it. The zealots I've been working on for almsot three weeks are slowly getting there. On Monday and Tuesday, I'll need to get the choir finished. That's going to be a little close, but I think I can make it.
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After a few weeks of absolute torture, my zealots are painted. I never want to see another unit ever again.
(http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/4069/zealotstk0.jpg)
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They look SICK!
Awesome.
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I'm very very impressed. It just blows my mind how excellent they look.
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Thanks for the kind words, gents.
As of 11:54, my 350 list was fully painted. I just finished basing and varnishing. Bam! In your face, deadline!
I'll post pictures tomorrow. Also, Steph and I will be down Wednesday night for some games with our finished lists.
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They look awesome you fucking bastard.
Seriously they are sweet.
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Full army shot. Not the best quality. Hopefully they'll be seen around the store at some point.
(http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/8151/reznik350ek0.jpg)
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So the first stage of the Armies of Immoren project is finished. It was a great time and a lot of stuff got done. I'm feeling pretty comfortable with my color scheme, I have excellent motivation to keep painting, and I'm really starting to learn how Reznik works on the table. On top of all of this, the games we've been playing have been quick, fun, and always enjoyable. There are some great opponents at Battleground.
Deciding on a 500 point list has been harder for me than working on my 350. The 150 point increase is a small window for additions and definitely limits options. With Reznik being a 'jack caster and my lack of melee might, I'm pretty much required to add a melee 'jack. That's a minimum of 68 points if I choose a light warjack. That only leaves enough points for a few solos or a minimum unit (which are almost never good). I've been fiddling with combinations for the last week or two and I think I've found a list I'm happy with. New additions will be in blue.
High Executioner Sevrath Reznik
- Fire of Salvation
- Redeemer
- Revenger
Vassal of Menoth
Choir of Menoth (6)
Wrack
Holy Zealots
- Monolith Bearer
Gorman Di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist
Total: 498/500
Starting from the top, here's why each model found a home in my list:
Fire of Salvation
When I played against Khador or Terminus, I felt the lack of a heavy hitter the most. The only way to make up for that was to throw Reznik into combat, which can easily lead to defeat if he doesn't kill his target in one shot. Though he looks like the Butcher, he's no where near as survivable. Fire of Salvation hits HARD. Like, P+S 20 with a Choir hard. He also has a host of abilities granting him more survivability and maneuverability. Access to Trample attacks will be awesome! Of all the Protectorate heavies, he may be my favorite. Plus, he's brand new and I got excited.
Additional Choir
With the number of 'jacks I use, maximizing the range of the Priest's songs is extremely important. I had wanted full choir from the beginning but only have the points to do so now.
Wrack
When playing Reznik, I've had a lot of turns where I wish I had one more point of focus for a boost, an additional Firestarter, or to allocate to a 'jack. This guy will give me that point when I need it most.
Gorman Di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist
Which Mercenary solo I was going to include in my list was the hardest choice I had to make. I was unbelievably close to taking Eiryss here for solo hunting, but didn't for a number of reasons.
1. Eiryss doesn't make you any friends. Some people get really, really upset when facing her.
2. Her disruptor bolt isn't as valuable in a Reznik list as his feat can remove focus for an assassination run.
3. Choosing Fire of Salvation meant there was no room for a Devout to protect Reznik's huge base. Keeping a warcaster alive trumps sniping.
So, in went Gorman for his amazing versatility and ability to block LOS to my warcaster or other key models.
I'm really looking forward to trying this list out. FoS looks like he's going to be a blast to play with and now I won't feel like a dick for taking a max Zealot unit with a Monolith Bearer.
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As I finished the full Choir for last month's goal, I don't need to paint the straggler. Here's what I need to get done by December:
Fire of Salvation
Gorman Di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist
Wrack
Since the list is so short, I'll also be painting Amon Ad Raza (who is a perfect swap for Reznik when I want a change), Kreoss, and maybe Feora.
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I played a few games Wednesday with the 500 point list. I'm really, really happy with it. Gorman is amazing in so many situations and Fire of Salvation is very, very good.
Gorman's rust bomb makes firebombs 2-shot most jacks! Also, Black Oil really puts warriors in a position where Reznik can reliably hit with unboosted spells. I'm happy to save focus anywhere I can.
FoS is great. Im going to have to get over the urge to run him out with all his bonus movement. Ive been overextending him and it hurts. But, the P+S 20 mace makes up for the lower POW of all my other attacks.
Over all, I think the jump to 500 rounded things out nicely.
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This guy was pretty quick but I'm really happy with how he turned out. I have a tough time painting black but after some trial and error I managed to get it done. Note: He is not shiny. That's my horrible photo skills.
(http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/7313/gormanfrontjy8.jpg)
(http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/7641/gormanbacknk8.jpg)
He was really fun to paint. It was nice to take a break from the reds and sandy whites of the Protectorate.
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As always they're incredible. You, sir, have some mad talent.
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Fire of Salvation has been unbelievable. He's definitely added some much needed heavy hitting to my list. In fact, he's killed the majority of warcasters I've faced at 500 points. Alone, he's solid, but once one adds in the choir, vassal, and Reznik, things get silly. With Zealot's Rage and Reznik firing off a Perdition pre-charge, he has a 15" threat range (with pathfinder) and is swinging at MAT 8 with a P+S 20 weapon that strips upkeep spells. Boosting to hit, there are few models he'll miss.
I really think FoS brings the best out of Reznik. Perdition movement at 350 wasn't a big deal. I'd only use it if I needed to get Reznik a charge target and even then only sparingly. FoS is more expendable than my warcaster, so he can jump out in front for the big charges. As if that wasn't good enough, Witch Hound makes the enemy think twice about casting spells at anyone in my battlegroup, lest he generate more movement and attacks for FoS. Aside from his poor interaction with Brand of Heresy, it was like the two were made for one another. Sorry Kreoss, this 'jack is really Reznik's.
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Very nice photo. And Gorman kicks ass.
Sweet paint job... now if only I could get *something* painted ;-)
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Painting a 'jack after the 4 straight weeks of infantry was a relief. Spending my time on one model really simplifies the process and I don't fatigue as much mentally. I kept him in theme with the rest of my force, using the same reds and incorporating a small amount of the blue that's been making appearances every now and again. He was a quick one, clocking in at around 5 or 6 hours. Once again, the reds are darker in person. My camera fails.
(http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/4344/fireofsalvationaw4.jpg)
Just a wrack to go and I meet the deadline!
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About 3 hours for the group. They aren't perfect, but I have a tough time spending a lot of time on models that are 5 points each and blow up in the first 2 rounds.
(http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/4622/wrackszr3.jpg)
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This is a wide shot, sorry if it doesn't fit!
(http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/5677/full500tk8.jpg)
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Mom wasn't kidding when she said, "Life ain't always fair".
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Those look beautiful. Very nice paint jobs especially given your color scheme.
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Yet another stage complete. I'm feeling a little lonely here in the Fully Painted Club. Both Matt and Steph are furiously trying to make up for lost ground as I type this. I certainly hope they manage to catch up before we jump to 1,000 points.
750 is largely uncharted territory for me. I've played around 3 games at the point level, all with Epic Vladamir, who isn't too difficult to use. This is going to be a real challenge, especially with a warcaster who doesn't play well with others. I'm reaching the upper limit on number of 'jacks I can run and Reznik provides absolutely nothing for infantry.
I'll be needing something capable of hunting solos, as they've proven to be problematic for my list and will become more so at 750. I'm also going to need a little board control to make up for my plodding advance. This is the list I have in mind, with the new models listed in blue:
High Executioner Sevrath Reznik
- Fire of Salvation
- Devout
- Redeemer
- Revenger
Vassal of Menoth
Choir of Menoth (6)
Holy Zealots (10)
- Monolith Bearer
Idrian Skirmishers (7)
- Chieftain and Huntsman Unit Attachment
Rupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord
Lady Aiyana and Master Holt
Gorman Di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist
I have removed the singular wrack I had in my previous list to fit in some of the new stuff. I like it a lot and it worked great, but I'd rather have everything listed here. On to the unit by unit!
Devout
I've been trying to fit one of these in since my 350 point list. This bodyguard 'jack intecepts ranged attacks, provides magic immunity for one focus point, and makes a defensive strike that lowers MAT when an enemy ends its movement nearby. Its efficiency and protection work very well with Reznik, who's stats aren't good enough to have him in the front on his own. This 'jack will also free up Gorman in many match ups, allowing me to use him more aggressively.
Idrain Skirmishers with Unit Attachment
They are the only other Protectorate unit that can function independently and not suffer for it. Don't think that's the only reason I took them, though! Idrian Skirmishers can do it all. They kill infantry like its nothing, kill 'jacks just as well, and control great swathes of the board with their intercept ability. Anyone who hates Zealots will feel a lot better about them after I use these guys.
Rupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord
What can I say about Rupert? He's almost essential for any Menoth army with more than one unit of infantry. He provides extra attacks, extra movement, pathfinder, tough... This solo defines utility and makes my units much more deadly.
Lady Aiyana and Master Holt
And you thought Eiryss was aggravating... Able to turn the lowliest warrior into a 'jack killing nightmare, Aiyana and Holt provide me with an alternate win: Super Zealots and Super Idrians. Sometimes Fire of Salvation or Reznik just can't get the job done. The ability to make attacks count as magic, shoot accurately, and to create a magic vacuum sweeten the deal, but its all about Harm.
I paint all my units at once, so even though I'm only using 9 skirmishers, I'll be painting 12. In addition, I own two Devouts so I'll be getting both of those done as well, bringing my painting tally up to...
2 Devouts
12 Skirmishers
Aiyana and Holt
Rupert
...16 models... 14 of which are infantry. Awesome...