Battleground Games Forum

Games Workshop => Warhammer 40K => Topic started by: bradpowers on September 16, 2013, 12:52:08 PM

Title: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: bradpowers on September 16, 2013, 12:52:08 PM
To Steve D's question about the preponderance of tournaments in Plainville versus Abington:

Why is every tourney always in Plainsville?

Discuss...
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Grimwulfe on September 16, 2013, 01:09:11 PM
Plainsville Pros:
More Room
Very Active 40K community
More Seasoned Tourny Players
More Terrain
Active Tourny Community

Plansville Cons:
....  comming up a blank here

Abington Pris:
.... Comming up blank here

Abington Cons:
Less active 40k Community (tourny wise)
Lack of space ot fit 15 tables
lack of terrain

Ths is all I got please elaborate on the pros and cons as I dont know them all.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: PhoenixFire on September 16, 2013, 01:58:00 PM
Troy seems to have hit the main points here, anyone who has been to plainville and abington can atest to the larger space in plainville.

chase seems to have some data on what plainville and abington guys are attending what events which is great, granted abington has only had a doubles and a 500 point tourny which are both kind of oddball events so maybe abington should try a singles and see how many people show and how tight the quarters are there.

from a business perspective... chase already touched on the hassle of moving terrain and tables back and forth between locations.

guys who go to a lot of tournaments aren't going to care much about driving longer to get to abington, they're going to care about the more room to play, the bigger parking lot, and the multiple lunch places next to bg plainville.

the one tournament I went to at abington I saw most of the plainville tournament regulars and a bunch of people I haven't seen before or since that tournament which I can only conclude means they are unwilling to drive to plainville because its to far for them? Or they have a secret hatred of how awesome plainville is
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Chase on September 16, 2013, 02:46:19 PM
So this really boils down to a few of key things that are probably not obvious.


1) Battleground currently doesn't have enough decent terrain to put together 15+ tables at each location. 

Here's some insight into how this has worked up until recently:

Chase:  Derek, my 40k event is coming up this weekend.  I'm going to need something like 5 or 6 tables and all of the buildings, ruins, and other 40k terrain you've got over there.  [Pro Tip:  Having a lot more terrain than you need speeds up the "set up" phase considerably.]

Chase:  Derek, my 40k event is tomorrow.  Will you have a chance to get some stuff down here?  I need enough stuff for like 17 tables total.

Derek:  Hey dude, I'll be coming down sometime tomorrow night.  Is that going to be alright?

Chase:  Yeah.  I'd love it here ASAP but tomorrow night is okay.  I'm going to be here until 3 or 4am anyways.

(So sometime Friday night, in the midst of 30-60 Magic players signing up for, buying cards for, and playing in Friday Night Magic Derek, needs to find a bunch of 40k terrain and a few tables, consolidate them, pack them up, load his truck, and drive down here to unload it all, sometimes help set up, and then drive home.)

After the event it works something like this:

Derek:  So we'll have to get some of the terrain back here for Thursday night.

Chase:  Okay, cool.  Are you, Lisa, or Beth going to be able to come pick it up or am I bringing it back?

Derek:  I'm not sure, we'll figure something out.

(At some point before Thursday I need to find stuff, consolidate it, pack it up, and set it aside or load it into my car and drive it back to Abington.)

Moral of this story:  HAVING TO DO THIS ONCE OR TWICE A MONTH BLOWS!  It's a giant chore that at least 3 people (excluding Caden, Derek's 4 year old) have to plan half a day around.  Also, terrain gets damaged in transit.  Shocking, I know.


2) The amount of behind the scenes work that goes into running a 40k event is not small.

Between keeping an accurate roster, chasing people down for their lists, checking the lists, getting in touch with people who have sent incorrect lists, making sure the new lists are correct, dropping people, adding people, creating / stealing the scenarios, editing the scenarios, going back and forth getting the packet created, and making sure the tables and terrain are all squared away, a lot of time and energy goes into things.  This is something that the Plainville staff does exclusively (Lisa puts together the packet in photoshop).  If the Abington staff would like to take it on for their own events, it would make things considerably more manageable and a lot easier when it comes to hosting events there with more frequency.  I'm not saying the Plainville staff won't continue to do it, however.

I know this may come as a surprise, but we're busy people before events get factored in.  Also, I know it's easy to forget but we've got stuff going on for a few other game systems too.  :)

There's a couple more logistical "problems" involved with the Plainville staff working on Abington events, but they're beyond the scope of this.  We hope that in the future this will be less of an issue.


3)  I'm reasonably sure that hosting regular tournaments in Abington is not an ideal fit for that community.

It's common knowledge that the two communities are pretty different.  Non-tournament events are much better suited to Abington.  Tournament attendance numbers over all miniature games are indicative of this fact and have remained the same over the 3 years Plainville has been open.

This is not to say that non-tournament events don't and wouldn't do well in Plainville, it's just my opinion that they're a much better fit for the Abington community vs. the "competitive" environment that's associated with tournaments.  Of course we still run into the problems that number 2 presents, like designing and actually running the non-tournament events over there, but solutions have already presented themselves.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Grand Master Steve on September 17, 2013, 01:38:25 AM
ok honestly im not going to post more in this because it will become a flame war.

Personaly its hard for me to drive down early to plainville to a tournament when Abington is in my back yard. It seems to me Magic The Gathering has taken over Abington. Even Warmachine Hordes doesnt have many tournaments there any more.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Sam Butler on September 17, 2013, 02:55:25 AM
I'll see what can be done to fix this...   :D

(no seriously I'll be making another table later this year...)
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Chase on September 17, 2013, 03:30:04 AM
ok honestly im not going to post more in this because it will become a flame war.

There's nothing to start a flame war about, Steve.  No worries.

You're literally the only Abington regular (excluding Rick, if he still counts ;)) that's come to a 40k event in Plainville maybe in all of 2013.  I'm generalizing of course, but it may be true.  I know Riley has signed up for a couple but hasn't been able to make it.

Look at the number of people the leagues that are run there attract relative to the number of people that play in tournaments.  WHFB, 40k, and WM/H have all had successful leagues in Abington this year.  Each one has been community organized and run, with the exception of the "score keeping" in the current 40k league.  It's the nature of how things currently are and currently work in Abington.  The proof seems to be in the numbers, and WM/H crowd might be the single best example of that.  Bloodbowl is another great example.  TONS of people in Abington play Bloodbowl and love it.  Ian and his friend put together an awesome tournament and got like 3-5 people to come out for it.  It was a total shame, but it's just more evidence to support the fact that the community there doesn't love tournaments (competitive events).

Abington loves engaging, casual, "let's get together and play this game" type of "events."  They do not seem to love competition for competitions sake.

To further things, there's not an employee in Abington that is taking the reins on things related to organizing miniature events.  This could be for a number of reasons that I won't get into.  When it comes time to give Abington some love it's very easy for me to justify spending my time and effort on other things.  I think, "Well, those guys have a league currently running and don't seem to turn out for tournaments in the way they do for other things so... Maybe next month."

I am very out of touch with the desires of the Abington community because I'm never there.  I only hear from you guys when you post on the boards.  I have no idea what the miniature community there wants or needs because I never hear about it.  If you guys want something or are dying to try something out, you know where to find me!  :)  You also probably know the names of the employees there, so feel free to ask them about stuff.

Is Magic popular in Abington?  Yes.
Does it eat up a TREMENDOUS amount of the employees time?  Absolutely.
Does the amount of time Magic eats up have to do with the attention the miniature community has been given?  Yes.
Has the community there stepped up to fill in the gaps?  Yes, very much so.
Will Battleground continue to host store run 40k events in Abington?  Yes.
When?  Give me some time.  I'm in the process of figuring out 1 event that I might move to Abington.  After that I've got to work on a "Monster Mash" for Halloween.  If you don't have a monstrous creature, now might be the time to get one.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: MM3791 on September 17, 2013, 04:32:13 AM
After that I've got to work on a "Monster Mash" for Halloween.  If you don't have a monstrous creature, now might be the time to get one.

That's code word for rip knight lol
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Grand Master Steve on September 17, 2013, 07:39:38 PM
ok honestly im not going to post more in this because it will become a flame war.

There's nothing to start a flame war about, Steve.  No worries.

You're literally the only Abington regular (excluding Rick, if he still counts ;)) that's come to a 40k event in Plainville maybe in all of 2013.  I'm generalizing of course, but it may be true.  I know Riley has signed up for a couple but hasn't been able to make it.

Look at the number of people the leagues that are run there attract relative to the number of people that play in tournaments.  WHFB, 40k, and WM/H have all had successful leagues in Abington this year.  Each one has been community organized and run, with the exception of the "score keeping" in the current 40k league.  It's the nature of how things currently are and currently work in Abington.  The proof seems to be in the numbers, and WM/H crowd might be the single best example of that.  Bloodbowl is another great example.  TONS of people in Abington play Bloodbowl and love it.  Ian and his friend put together an awesome tournament and got like 3-5 people to come out for it.  It was a total shame, but it's just more evidence to support the fact that the community there doesn't love tournaments (competitive events).

Abington loves engaging, casual, "let's get together and play this game" type of "events."  They do not seem to love competition for competitions sake.

To further things, there's not an employee in Abington that is taking the reins on things related to organizing miniature events.  This could be for a number of reasons that I won't get into.  When it comes time to give Abington some love it's very easy for me to justify spending my time and effort on other things.  I think, "Well, those guys have a league currently running and don't seem to turn out for tournaments in the way they do for other things so... Maybe next month."

I am very out of touch with the desires of the Abington community because I'm never there.  I only hear from you guys when you post on the boards.  I have no idea what the miniature community there wants or needs because I never hear about it.  If you guys want something or are dying to try something out, you know where to find me!  :)  You also probably know the names of the employees there, so feel free to ask them about stuff.

Is Magic popular in Abington?  Yes.
Does it eat up a TREMENDOUS amount of the employees time?  Absolutely.
Does the amount of time Magic eats up have to do with the attention the miniature community has been given?  Yes.
Has the community there stepped up to fill in the gaps?  Yes, very much so.
Will Battleground continue to host store run 40k events in Abington?  Yes.
When?  Give me some time.  I'm in the process of figuring out 1 event that I might move to Abington.  After that I've got to work on a "Monster Mash" for Halloween.  If you don't have a monstrous creature, now might be the time to get one.

Ok fair enough. I was unaware of these statistics. I admit I got hot under the collar because its. Pain for me to get to Plainville cause I can't stay awake behind the wheel at that hour of morning plus I can't always get a hotel room as I have been its based weather or not they have space. Any way I was discussing terrain with other Abingtonites and they notice every time they make it, it goes to Plainsville and comes back damaged. I was feeling almost discriminated against as an Abington regular but I was unaware of those numbers so no hard feelings.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Thomas callahan on September 17, 2013, 08:17:08 PM
To be honest, the "room" issue is equal at both stores. Ive done 1 or 2 events at plainsville and compared to abington when they have one is more or less the same. Not alot of space.

But i think the main issue is since most 40k players are casual, they rather not take off time from work unless its something they normaly dont get to do, like doubles or 500 games. Or apocalypes 8).

And im right along steve D. The hour or so drive down sucks in the morning
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Achillius on September 17, 2013, 09:01:26 PM
To be honest, the "room" issue is equal at both stores. Ive done 1 or 2 events at plainsville and compared to abington when they have one is more or less the same. Not alot of space.

But i think the main issue is since most 40k players are casual, they rather not take off time from work unless its something they normaly dont get to do, like doubles or 500 games. Or apocalypes 8).

And im right along steve D. The hour or so drive down sucks in the morning

+1

Not that I think We'll be heard. In the old store it was to support Plainville, then when all the terrain vanished it was because no one played 40k in Abington, now we're back to terrain and that if we won't go to Plainville then why should we have events in Abington, our local store that we've supported for years.

I'm going to stop now, I'm getting pissed.





Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Ian Mulligan on September 18, 2013, 01:22:15 AM
Two things that I feel are super relevant here: historical attendance and vocalized desires.

Attendance means a whole lot in a few ways. If events get hosted at Abington but 75% of the people who show up are driving up from the Plainville area, it makes more sense to host those kind of events down there. Making the commute easier for the people who typically populate BG's tournaments is a no-brainer.

The Abington community also has to show up to events they have hosted there. In my experiences in 40k events in the new location, there have been a few of the regular 40k guys showing up but definitely not in the numbers I would have expected. That makes demand for events look low and the store is going to plan accordingly.

My last point is if you dudes want tournaments, let Derek, Chase, Nick, Cale, whoever know! The only way to get things rolling is to make some sort of initial move. I love sitting around complaining, especially about nerd shit, but shooting Derek an email or loosely organizing something is infinitely more productive AND the only way you'll eventually get what you want. If the powers that be don't know your needs aren't being met, they won't be.

Like, seriously. I had no idea people in Abington even wanted tournaments and there's internet rage now. Its surprising.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Ivellos on September 18, 2013, 02:29:11 AM
I for one have been building and painting my 40k frantically to get back in the game recently. While I have been playing games with 2 of my close friends at home all three of us would love some competitive 40k at the Abington store preferably. Schedule permitting, that's 3 more for some events possibly 4 if its a team thing.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: MM3791 on September 18, 2013, 02:36:51 AM
I don't understand why some Plainville players aren't willing to drive up to a Abington tourney once a month, and vice versa.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Benjamin on September 18, 2013, 07:39:24 AM
Ian's post is a very articulate version of what I wanted to say, but didn't feel it was my place to say it.

So the plan should be for the Abington community to get together, even here on the forum, and decide what specifically they would like for an event and pick a time in which the most people can attend. BG is very accommodating when the community speaks its desires and takes tangible action, but they are not mind-readers nor do can they snap their fingers to make your dreams come true.

But if terrain is really the main factor why people aren't playing, I'm going out on a limb to say you kinda need to get over that. Some of my favorite and most educational games were played with paper towel rolls, soda cans and books.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Grimwulfe on September 18, 2013, 08:17:28 AM
I don't understand why some Plainville players aren't willing to drive up to a Abington tourney once a month, and vice versa.

Thats just it my freind we are.  If I recall correctly the last few Abington tournies the majority of attendees were in fact Plainsville Regulars.

And hell if terrain is an issue MAKE SOME!  Bring it in, donate it!!

The numbers are there and I think Ian hit the nail on the head.  The Plainsville community is very active AND vocal and we make it a point to ask Chase to accomadate us in our need for tournies. 

Ben has the right Idea as well if yall want a tourny then speak up.  Now I get this is what your guys are doing now and we Plainsville regulars support you obviously since we are filling out your tournies when they are there.

All in all I think you guys have a great casual community but remember that doesnt always lend itself to running successful tournaments, but the passion is there for a few of the more vocal among you.  Get together work out what you guys want and a time frame (not exact dates most likely wont fork for BG) but a timeframe when the Abington regulars can show in force and prove to BG that they need to do more in Abington tourny wise.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: PhoenixFire on September 18, 2013, 10:33:53 AM
I don't understand why some Plainville players aren't willing to drive up to a Abington tourney once a month, and vice versa.

Thats just it my freind we are.  If I recall correctly the last few Abington tournies the majority of attendees were in fact Plainsville Regulars.

And hell if terrain is an issue MAKE SOME!  Bring it in, donate it!!

The numbers are there and I think Ian hit the nail on the head.  The Plainsville community is very active AND vocal and we make it a point to ask Chase to accomadate us in our need for tournies. 

Ben has the right Idea as well if yall want a tourny then speak up.  Now I get this is what your guys are doing now and we Plainsville regulars support you obviously since we are filling out your tournies when they are there.

All in all I think you guys have a great casual community but remember that doesnt always lend itself to running successful tournaments, but the passion is there for a few of the more vocal among you.  Get together work out what you guys want and a time frame (not exact dates most likely wont fork for BG) but a timeframe when the Abington regulars can show in force and prove to BG that they need to do more in Abington tourny wise.

agreed, Plainville has always been looking out for the guys attending GTs by staging comparative point value events at BG before a GT.

-They tried to do a Nova prep 4 round tournament last month but unfortunately not enough people
-Chase has already said there will be a 1850 event before DaBoyz coming up
-I'm sure there will be a 2k event before Templecon in February
-And whatever point value Adepticon is next year (1850 seems to be the new meta) i'm sure there will be   an 1850 event just before

Makes sense, To be clear, I'm not looking for 1850 crazy competitive situations here, you guys have the corner on that market for sure :)

IMNSHO 500 pointers and doubles are far more suited to the Abington crowd than the tournament practice.
 
So a few smaller tournaments and doubles would be appreciated, and despite memory issues, expectations were clearly set about the new store having more of these, watching Plainville host these over and over again is bumming out more than a few..

If Abington doesn't want the 1850s and doesn't have the numbers to justify doing them in Abington thats fine. The 500s, Doubles, and Trios events are always huge turnouts wherever they are held and i'm sure to be fair to the community BG will continue to hold those kind of events in Abington AND Plainville.

Despite what some of the Abington guys have said the bottom line is plainville is much easier to squeeze 20 tables into and still have room to move, not to mention the hassle Chase has already touched on of moving the terrain and tables back and forth.


Like Troy said, if there is terrain issues or table issues then make some more, if you Abington guys feel passionately about getting more events up there then talk to Derek personally



On a slightly different subject and i don't want to make more work for BG but maybe a friendly competetion would help get more people involved in Abington (and Plainville for that matter)

-When BG posts the results of tournaments throw another line in there saying what store they are from
-Hand out those "hello my name is" stickers at tournaments with forum tag names so people can put more names to faces and what store they are from

The other thing worth mentioning here is not everyone who attends BG events is from Plainville or Abington. We've got a lot of Cold Steel Merc guys who make the trip from CT for all these events






Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Battleground on September 18, 2013, 03:15:37 PM
Abington will definitely be having another 40K tournament soon, despite my expectation that it will probably be attended 80/20 Plainville/Abington regulars if it's a singles tournament, 60/40 if it's a doubles. The reasons why it didn't happen over the summer was because we ran a very long, and well attended league. The "hunger" for organized and competitive 40K was being met, in my opinion.

Terrain for 40K in Abington is also very good right now and has been for quite some time. The store has what I believe is the "best" of the buildings owned by the store (thank you Paul Gaughran!). Warmachine/Hordes also has recently made huge strides in specific terrain for that game, thanks to the efforts put forth by Ian, Stephanie, Rob, Dan, Rich, Nick and others. A project is also in the works that will hopefully put an end to the occasional deficits in terrain at one location or another. I'll be calling on the community at both locations for help...

The space issue is something I simply don't agree with. I organized the tables a little strangely for the last event in order to maximize seating for people. Abington, with the right configuration, can host as many, if not more tables than Plainville.

Abington players, I would like to hear your preferences as to what type of tournament you'd like to see next. Any particular format desired?
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Grimwulfe on September 18, 2013, 03:27:22 PM
Come on Derek make this happen the Mountain needs to go on tour!!!
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Ian Mulligan on September 18, 2013, 03:47:09 PM
Abington will definitely be having another 40K tournament soon, despite my expectation that it will probably be attended 80/20 Plainville/Abington regulars if it's a singles tournament, 60/40 if it's a doubles. The reasons why it didn't happen over the summer was because we ran a very long, and well attended league. The "hunger" for organized and competitive 40K was being met, in my opinion.

Terrain for 40K in Abington is also very good right now and has been for quite some time. The store has what I believe is the "best" of the buildings owned by the store (thank you Paul Gaughran!). Warmachine/Hordes also has recently made huge strides in specific terrain for that game, thanks to the efforts put forth by Ian, Stephanie, Rob, Dan, Rich, Nick and others. A project is also in the works that will hopefully put an end to the occasional deficits in terrain at one location or another. I'll be calling on the community at both locations for help...

The space issue is something I simply don't agree with. I organized the tables a little strangely for the last event in order to maximize seating for people. Abington, with the right configuration, can host as many, if not more tables than Plainville.

Abington players, I would like to hear your preferences as to what type of tournament you'd like to see next. Any particular format desired?

Bam. This post right here. Looks like everyone will be a winner.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Typhus on September 18, 2013, 04:08:09 PM
Come on Derek make this happen the Mountain needs to go on tour!!!

That thing literally tried to eat me on the way back from NOVA.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Grand Master Steve on September 19, 2013, 12:59:08 AM
Abington will definitely be having another 40K tournament soon, despite my expectation that it will probably be attended 80/20 Plainville/Abington regulars if it's a singles tournament, 60/40 if it's a doubles. The reasons why it didn't happen over the summer was because we ran a very long, and well attended league. The "hunger" for organized and competitive 40K was being met, in my opinion.

Terrain for 40K in Abington is also very good right now and has been for quite some time. The store has what I believe is the "best" of the buildings owned by the store (thank you Paul Gaughran!). Warmachine/Hordes also has recently made huge strides in specific terrain for that game, thanks to the efforts put forth by Ian, Stephanie, Rob, Dan, Rich, Nick and others. A project is also in the works that will hopefully put an end to the occasional deficits in terrain at one location or another. I'll be calling on the community at both locations for help...

The space issue is something I simply don't agree with. I organized the tables a little strangely for the last event in order to maximize seating for people. Abington, with the right configuration, can host as many, if not more tables than Plainville.

Abington players, I would like to hear your preferences as to what type of tournament you'd like to see next. Any particular format desired?

ide like to see small point singles 1500 - 1750 or doubles 1250 each.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Chase on September 20, 2013, 02:05:40 AM
I've been SO CLOSE to pulling the trigger on a 1250/person doubles event... I just worry about no one actually finishing or having to go to 3+ hour long rounds.

6th edition is slower than 5th edition and Doubles events are slower than Singles events.  I'm not sure I love the idea of saying, "Yo, dudes... you're gonna play in a 12 hour long event."

I really, REALLY want to do a 1250/player Doubles, but I'm not sure it would result in people leaving the store smiling simply because it might take forever.

I think I'm going to do a 2500 point Singles event sometime soon.

Also, there was a 1500 point event 3 weeks ago in Plainville.  ;)  Just saying!
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Grand Master Steve on September 20, 2013, 02:46:23 AM
I think we Abington regulars need to show we want a tourney and mess up some Plainville fools East Vs West style ;)
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Chase on September 20, 2013, 03:04:06 AM
Please keep that can of worms closed.  Forever.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: The_Chef on September 20, 2013, 03:12:10 AM
Verily! We shall take up arms against the plain-villans! Wait. Tournaments are on Saturdays. I'm out, good luck Steve.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Sam Butler on September 20, 2013, 05:12:06 AM
Please keep that can of worms closed.  Forever.

Civil wars are rarely civil...      Well put chase.   That said   indeed plan and start running events (pending scheduling with  the store)  IN stead of VS how about a more positive paradigm.   a two stage GT perhaps?   One day at each store? separated by a week maybe?
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Grand Master Steve on September 20, 2013, 03:08:40 PM
please note the smiley I used I was joking
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Sam Butler on September 20, 2013, 03:26:57 PM
please note the smiley I used I was joking

No   everything on the internet is serious all the time...

Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Benjamin on September 20, 2013, 11:28:38 PM
please note the smiley I used I was joking
But there's no smiley after that statement. Does that mean shit just got real?
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: SyRael on September 21, 2013, 01:35:35 AM
I am sorry, but it is a rare day that I can make that drive over to the PV store. Honestly, I agree that we here in AB do have a diffrent feel to us, but we like playing and love events. Just look at the last 500pts game played. It really was a good time. I have noticed  that we tend to play events that are not straight foward one on one death matches. But we do run events like 10 man king of the hill, 750pt seek and find, and three on three capture the flag type games that are never sponsored by the store. That stuff gets us going. To say that PV wants it more than us because they like compition for compition sake is just plain wrong. I want a reason to spend money at Derek's store,  but if the game I play has really no events, then I'm either not playing or on the floor at someone's house. AB has player like myself who have been coming to AB for over ten years and want  to keep coming back. I love it here, and will never feel that passion for a store well over a hour away from where I live. I and do agree that  the issue about  terrain  can be sovled easily. Split it. PV can use less, give AB bare bones for now. A lot of us worked on that stuff before there even was another store.  I'm really getting heated about this, so I'm done.

With deep respect,
Thank you.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Mad Dok Rob on September 21, 2013, 12:57:51 PM
please note the smiley I used I was joking
But there's no smiley after that statement. Does that mean shit just got real?

(http://i40.tinypic.com/oksmwz.jpg)
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Seth on September 21, 2013, 05:08:59 PM
1250 doubles
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Grand Master Steve on September 21, 2013, 06:45:51 PM
I am sorry, but it is a rare day that I can make that drive over to the PV store. Honestly, I agree that we here in AB do have a diffrent feel to us, but we like playing and love events. Just look at the last 500pts game played. It really was a good time. I have noticed  that we tend to play events that are not straight foward one on one death matches. But we do run events like 10 man king of the hill, 750pt seek and find, and three on three capture the flag type games that are never sponsored by the store. That stuff gets us going. To say that PV wants it more than us because they like compition for compition sake is just plain wrong. I want a reason to spend money at Derek's store,  but if the game I play has really no events, then I'm either not playing or on the floor at someone's house. AB has player like myself who have been coming to AB for over ten years and want  to keep coming back. I love it here, and will never feel that passion for a store well over a hour away from where I live. I and do agree that  the issue about  terrain  can be sovled easily. Split it. PV can use less, give AB bare bones for now. A lot of us worked on that stuff before there even was another store.  I'm really getting heated about this, so I'm done.

With deep respect,
Thank you.

I agree with a lot of what is said here. I feel ever since PV came into the fold, AB has been over looked sneezed at and tossed aside. Terrain always seems to be an issue and when it comes back to AB its always in worse condition then it was before it was sent out.

Any way enough of that, I just want to see a small point tourney or a small point doubles, something anything. Throw us a bone here!
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Chase on September 22, 2013, 12:32:43 AM
So this really boils down to a few of key things that are probably not obvious.


1) Battleground currently doesn't have enough decent terrain to put together 15+ tables at each location. 

Here's some insight into how this has worked up until recently:

Chase:  Derek, my 40k event is coming up this weekend.  I'm going to need something like 5 or 6 tables and all of the buildings, ruins, and other 40k terrain you've got over there.  [Pro Tip:  Having a lot more terrain than you need speeds up the "set up" phase considerably.]

Chase:  Derek, my 40k event is tomorrow.  Will you have a chance to get some stuff down here?  I need enough stuff for like 17 tables total.

Derek:  Hey dude, I'll be coming down sometime tomorrow night.  Is that going to be alright?

Chase:  Yeah.  I'd love it here ASAP but tomorrow night is okay.  I'm going to be here until 3 or 4am anyways.

(So sometime Friday night, in the midst of 30-60 Magic players signing up for, buying cards for, and playing in Friday Night Magic Derek, needs to find a bunch of 40k terrain and a few tables, consolidate them, pack them up, load his truck, and drive down here to unload it all, sometimes help set up, and then drive home.)

After the event it works something like this:

Derek:  So we'll have to get some of the terrain back here for Thursday night.

Chase:  Okay, cool.  Are you, Lisa, or Beth going to be able to come pick it up or am I bringing it back?

Derek:  I'm not sure, we'll figure something out.

(At some point before Thursday I need to find stuff, consolidate it, pack it up, and set it aside or load it into my car and drive it back to Abington.)

Moral of this story:  HAVING TO DO THIS ONCE OR TWICE A MONTH BLOWS!  It's a giant chore that at least 3 people (excluding Caden, Derek's 4 year old) have to plan half a day around.  Also, terrain gets damaged in transit.  Shocking, I know.


2) The amount of behind the scenes work that goes into running a 40k event is not small.

Between keeping an accurate roster, chasing people down for their lists, checking the lists, getting in touch with people who have sent incorrect lists, making sure the new lists are correct, dropping people, adding people, creating / stealing the scenarios, editing the scenarios, going back and forth getting the packet created, and making sure the tables and terrain are all squared away, a lot of time and energy goes into things.  This is something that the Plainville staff does exclusively (Lisa puts together the packet in photoshop).  If the Abington staff would like to take it on for their own events, it would make things considerably more manageable and a lot easier when it comes to hosting events there with more frequency.  I'm not saying the Plainville staff won't continue to do it, however.

I know this may come as a surprise, but we're busy people before events get factored in.  Also, I know it's easy to forget but we've got stuff going on for a few other game systems too.  :)

There's a couple more logistical "problems" involved with the Plainville staff working on Abington events, but they're beyond the scope of this.  We hope that in the future this will be less of an issue.


3)  I'm reasonably sure that hosting regular tournaments in Abington is not an ideal fit for that community.

It's common knowledge that the two communities are pretty different.  Non-tournament events are much better suited to Abington.  Tournament attendance numbers over all miniature games are indicative of this fact and have remained the same over the 3 years Plainville has been open.

This is not to say that non-tournament events don't and wouldn't do well in Plainville, it's just my opinion that they're a much better fit for the Abington community vs. the "competitive" environment that's associated with tournaments.  Of course we still run into the problems that number 2 presents, like designing and actually running the non-tournament events over there, but solutions have already presented themselves.

It seems to me like people didn't read this.  I guess I'll paraphrase:


1) We don't have enough terrain to support the types of TOURNAMENTS we'd like without moving tables and terrain back and forth.

- We've taken steps to change this situation this summer. Paul built 30+ gorgeous buildings for Abington.  They are the best the store has ever had.  Abington current;y has a TON of awesome 40k terrain.

- There's a massive project in the planning phases that will change this completely.  I really hopes it comes to be.

- Tables and terrain get damaged in transit and by heavy use.


2) Organizing and executing a 40k event is a lot of work.

- The Plainville staff / community is entirely responsible for the back end of all 40k tournaments and some small events BG has run over the last 3 years.

- The Plainville staff is a resource that I must allocate to the best of my ability.  We've got lots of work we have to do here to keep business running as usual.  Just like a real, live, big kid business we feel pressured to "do better" than we did the previous year.  This means improving our product, schedule, and service.  When there's time for extras, I tend to focus the staff on their home base.  Can we at least agree that this makes sense?

- I am out of touch with what the Abington community would like.

- We recognize that it's been a while (May) in between an Abington 40k tournament / event of some sort.  We will get one (or a couple small "TANKSgiving" type events) in before the end of the year.  We had an event lined up for Abington this summer but a 10 week league began, so we didn't execute it.


3) I'm not sure tournaments are where it's at for the Abington 40k scene.

- See Ian's post.

- See Brandon's post (SyRael).

- See tournament attendance in both locations over the past year.

- Communicate interests to me or the Abington staff.

- There's nothing preventing the community from organizing an informal (or formal, see the last 4-5 WM tournaments or leagues) event of any kind.

- Let's collaborate.

- Stuff is coming.

- I'd feel better if I heard from more than 4 or 5 Abington guys about this. 


I may be wrong, but I'd like to think Battleground as a business provides more options and opportunities for it's community to play 40k than anywhere else in the region.  I feel sort of slighted that despite this fact some of you are upset about that lack of events.  I put a lot of time into 40k stuff, certainly have in the past, and will continue to in the future.  It would be cool to hear about people's issues and how "pissed" they are before posts on our message board that are seemingly out of nowhere.

I'm pretty much the most accessible person I can possibly be.  Communicate please.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Chase on September 22, 2013, 12:41:40 AM
If Steve D is trolling me, he's doing a damn good job of it...
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: MM3791 on September 22, 2013, 01:40:30 AM
Battlegrounds owns Massachusetts in terms of gaming support and events. Like, legit for real. Other clubs in the area don't run 40k tournaments every month, and some don't even have a dedicated website, just facebook pages.

I think the BG staff does an outstanding job at running events. I personally only play GW games but they also do a great job with Magic, Warmachine, and basically whatever other game is thrown at them.

This summer we even had a really great 40k campaign that actually strengthened the 40k community because it gave gamers a chance to meet other gamers in the area.

BG even has annual megabattles where the staff rents out a hall to play 40k Apocalypse. 

BG caters to casual and competitive gamers all year round, so I really can't see why anyone would have a problem with support for events. In my experience as long as their is a demand for a particular gaming event, BG will meet and execute it in an efficient manner.

This is just my experience, I've been coming to Battlegrounds on and off since 2004.. this is actually the most active I've ever been in the wargaming scene, mostly due to the 40k campaign. I look forward to future events and campaigns @ BG.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Benjamin on September 22, 2013, 02:53:17 AM
It seems Abington needs a dedicated 40k employee, because I couldn't tell you who it is.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: the_trooper on September 22, 2013, 08:14:37 AM
It seems Abington needs a dedicated 40k employee, because I couldn't tell you who it is.

Are you saying that Cale should wine and dine you to convince you to move to Abington?
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Benjamin on September 22, 2013, 11:24:59 AM
Are you saying that Cale should wine and dine you to convince you to move to Abington?
Flattering, but Plainville's my home and it's lowly skeleton crew like family. It probably takes that level of devotion to do whatever it is I do, and there's certainly no emotional motivation lacking in this thread.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: SyRael on September 22, 2013, 12:11:50 PM
Battlegrounds owns Massachusetts in terms of gaming support and events. Like, legit for real. Other clubs in the area don't run 40k tournaments every month, and some don't even have a dedicated website, just facebook pages.

I think the BG staff does an outstanding job at running events. I personally only play GW games but they also do a great job with Magic, Warmachine, and basically whatever other game is thrown at them.

This summer we even had a really great 40k campaign that actually strengthened the 40k community because it gave gamers a chance to meet other gamers in the area.

BG even has annual megabattles where the staff rents out a hall to play 40k Apocalypse. 

BG caters to casual and competitive gamers all year round, so I really can't see why anyone would have a problem with support for events. In my experience as long as their is a demand for a particular gaming event, BG will meet and execute it in an efficient manner.

This is just my experience, I've been coming to Battlegrounds on and off since 2004.. this is actually the most active I've ever been in the wargaming scene, mostly due to the 40k campaign. I look forward to future events and campaigns @ BG.


I completly agree. Chase we love what tis store does for us and never has been our focus to imply otherwise. I like you thoughts also. I understand that both stores must bring it together so that we NEVER create a  "us-them" situation between the two stores.  I think the heart of the issue is that Friday night is among the best time for most of us to meet and play, but that night is for Magic and can never not be for Magic (the store needs to make money and has other people who play other games). I work like most people and showing up on a weekday nightafter 5 to play a 4 hr game is hard. I know this to be true for most of us. AB has the player base, but the space/time is an issue. Try Sat? We have and at times some of us can work out the time off. This is not an issue of the store's, rather one of those times the real life Fs it all up. There is not enough space on Friday nights, nor should we ask for it (If Derek does not make is money then there is no store). The issue about the warhammer stuff has become silly. Chase I trust that the staff does whatever is in thier power to do thier best and I think we all understand that shit breaks. I regule my destoryer arms before every game. And yes, I think it would be ideal to get a store employee to oversee warhammer in AB. The only issue that is getting us upset is way wording is being used, not by the store staff (I think). AB has shown over tens year of dedication to the events held at Battlegrounds and for some to imply that we are otherwise due to a diffrent gaming philosophy that is a bit more causal is ridiculous. With that said, I see this issue more as "Hey Chase this is what we need/ would like to do" and us helping him out. Chase I think you take the heat to much (but in away like it), and I just want you to understand that in no way are you this time at fault.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Thomas callahan on September 22, 2013, 05:34:27 PM


I may be wrong, but I'd like to think Battleground as a business provides more options and opportunities for it's community to play 40k than anywhere else in the region.  I feel sort of slighted that despite this fact some of you are upset about that lack of events.  I put a lot of time into 40k stuff, certainly have in the past, and will continue to in the future.  It would be cool to hear about people's issues and how "pissed" they are before posts on our message board that are seemingly out of nowhere.

I'm pretty much the most accessible person I can possibly be.  Communicate please.
[/quote]

I think the reason why its all blowing up now seemingly out of nowhere is because everyone in abington has been dealing with for awhile. We complained to each other but never to you, D or anyone else because we respect you guys and know you do alot for use and have a ton of work to do. But it all just built up over the months and now this thread happens and people are finaly letting loose on what has been on their minds.

Besides, we are not pissed, just annoyed. If we were pissed, this whole thread would turn out much more ugly
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: keithb on September 23, 2013, 01:10:10 PM
Honestly, The best thing abington people can do to get more tournaments, is to 1) talk to derek/chase, etc... about it. 2) show up to plainville events.

I can't tell you how many times I've heard chase mubble about wishing more of the Abington people show up to events.  I am sure that all

Also, note that I said SHOW up to events, Signing up and then not Showing up is about the worst because it makes all of the abington people(assuming it is abington people who do this) look like flakes.  Don't reflect badly on your community!

I makes no business sense to move an event FROM where all the attendees are.  I would love to have more events at abington if more abington people would show up to events there AND at plainville.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: PhoenixFire on September 23, 2013, 01:30:14 PM
Honestly, The best thing abington people can do to get more tournaments, is to 1) talk to derek/chase, etc... about it. 2) show up to plainville events.

I can't tell you how many times I've heard chase mubble about wishing more of the Abington people show up to events.  I am sure that all

Also, note that I said SHOW up to events, Signing up and then not Showing up is about the worst because it makes all of the abington people(assuming it is abington people who do this) look like flakes.  Don't reflect badly on your community!

I makes no business sense to move an event FROM where all the attendees are.  I would love to have more events at abington if more abington people would show up to events there AND at plainville.

+1
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Grand Master Steve on September 23, 2013, 05:32:13 PM
Honestly, The best thing abington people can do to get more tournaments, is to 1) talk to derek/chase, etc... about it. 2) show up to plainville events.

I can't tell you how many times I've heard chase mubble about wishing more of the Abington people show up to events.  I am sure that all

Also, note that I said SHOW up to events, Signing up and then not Showing up is about the worst because it makes all of the abington people(assuming it is abington people who do this) look like flakes.  Don't reflect badly on your community!

I makes no business sense to move an event FROM where all the attendees are.  I would love to have more events at abington if more abington people would show up to events there AND at plainville.

well there in lies the largest problem. PV is to much of a hike for some of us at early morning hours. I know I will be falling asleep behind the wheel. Whene ver I have singed up I show up so I dont know who else sings up from Abington and is a no show. I think we need to actualy utalize the new space in Abington and hold tournaments even small ones.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: PhoenixFire on September 23, 2013, 06:33:56 PM
Honestly, The best thing abington people can do to get more tournaments, is to 1) talk to derek/chase, etc... about it. 2) show up to plainville events.

I can't tell you how many times I've heard chase mubble about wishing more of the Abington people show up to events.  I am sure that all

Also, note that I said SHOW up to events, Signing up and then not Showing up is about the worst because it makes all of the abington people(assuming it is abington people who do this) look like flakes.  Don't reflect badly on your community!

I makes no business sense to move an event FROM where all the attendees are.  I would love to have more events at abington if more abington people would show up to events there AND at plainville.

well there in lies the largest problem. PV is to much of a hike for some of us at early morning hours. I know I will be falling asleep behind the wheel.

Nobody should using this as an excuse unless they are one of the few people from NH who come to BG tournaments.

We have a large group of CT guys who come to almost every event in Plainville (i also saw a bunch of them at the one doubles event in Abington) and if they can get there by 10am on a Saturday morning i don't see why anyone can't make the 45 min drive from the Abington area.

I think we need to actualy utalize the new space in Abington and hold tournaments even small ones.

here you go

Abington will definitely be having another 40K tournament soon, despite my expectation that it will probably be attended 80/20 Plainville/Abington regulars if it's a singles tournament, 60/40 if it's a doubles. The reasons why it didn't happen over the summer was because we ran a very long, and well attended league. The "hunger" for organized and competitive 40K was being met, in my opinion.

But i still think Keith hit the nail on the head with this.

I makes no business sense to move an event FROM where all the attendees are.  I would love to have more events at abington if more abington people would show up to events there AND at plainville.

If Abington want's more events than they should be making an effort to attend all BG 40k events like most of the Plainville regulars do, if they don't want to go to Plainville then they shouldn't be complaining about Plainville having more events.

That's like a sports team who says they will only play home games!!!



Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Chase on September 23, 2013, 06:42:43 PM
I believe that people who WANT to play in the events and CAN make the events will make the drive.  I've got people from CT, RI, NH, VT, ME, western MA, NY once in a while, and sometimes CANADA that come.

I get that waking up early sucks.  I do.  But when there's 0-1 people (of 25-35+) from the Abington community that want to play in a tournament 35-45 min away it doesn't scream demand to me.

Many people on the boards don't know that the Abington 40k crowd is pretty substantial.  It's not like it's one of 5 or 10 guys that show up.  It's 1 of quite a few guys.

The 500 point event, which people from Abignton BEGGED me about for months, got 10 Abington people.  It's a casual, goofy, TOURNAMENT.

Like I've said before, I'm not sure tournaments are a good fit there.  Sure, more than 2 in a calendar year needs to happen, but I think the focus should be on other "organized play" events.  I really wish I could make a copy of myself (and Ben, and Sam, and Matt, and Brad, and at least one of the guys who judge paint for us, and the people I constantly bounce ideas off of, etc. etc).  :)
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Loranus on September 23, 2013, 07:14:52 PM
Hey does everyone remember when I fell and bashed my knee at work went to bed at 1 A.M. Got up early drove 50 minutes to Plainville limped my way into the store for a 40k tournament. Or that time the Fuel tank on my car ruptured and I had to find a ride which required me to do a 40 minute walk to my Father's work with my 40k stuff to get a ride to Battlegrounds to play in a 40k tournament. Pepperidge Farm Remembers.

If you want to play in a tournament you get yourself there somehow someway. I may be absolutely insane but that is how I see it.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: bradpowers on September 23, 2013, 07:17:59 PM
EDIT:  Apologies, had a bad day at work, and the snark was turned up to 11.  Consider it turned down.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Seth on September 23, 2013, 07:59:50 PM
Just to point out I am as far from plainville as plainville is from Connecticut. I do come down and play when I can. I just don't have a way of getting there all the time. I wish I could play more. Prior it was other things. But it would be a lot easier to get to Abington. I also understand that tournaments had not been big in Abington. But I do think that the community is on the up swing again. I wanted to do the doubles again in plainville but can't really find a way to do it right now but it would be nice to have another 40k doubles tournament up in Abington. 1250 each player would be awesome.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: SyRael on September 23, 2013, 08:01:50 PM
Wow this had turned into a "us vrs. them". So warhammer is in PV, they earned it more. Got it. Cool.  I have no intrest in playing there. I will keep gamming in a "casual group" here in AB. I know the rest of us will as well. Thank for answers. Not much more to say, since this thread is breaking down into a round of insults. Its great you have people coming from all around Chase. You group up there as said before, is diffrent than what our style is. I want to game with others in that style, a a style we as an independent community developed over the last 10 years. Thanks for hearing us and please Bradpowers keep posting. I love feeling hate from PV players.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: bradpowers on September 23, 2013, 08:29:49 PM
My issue with this whole conversation is that it seems that people are unappreciative of what Chase, Sam, Matt, and the other movers and shakers do for US, Plainvillers, Abingtonians, and area wargamers alike.  Frankly, saying that you're not willing to make a drive for a fun day of gaming, but that you EXPECT Chase et. al to do so, especially given the situation he's in (and which Chase has made clear in multiple posts) is disrespectful of Chase et. al. 

Saying that it's unfair, given historical turnouts for Plainville and Abington tournaments is absurd.  The fairest possible location to play in would be the average of all attendee's locations.  Unfortunately, that location is probably outside, and is also likely lacking in terrain.  Given that we have two locations to choose from, I suspect that Plainville is the "fairest" of them all.  The fact that a few vocal members are complaining loudly that the location doesn't suit them doesn't outweigh the dozens of silent tournament participants, nor should it.

My last point is this:  If YOU want to see tournaments, megabattles, etc. happen, MAKE THEM HAPPEN.  Chase has made it clear that due to terrain and other issues, he lacks the hours in the day to run multiple tournaments per month in multiple locations.  Instead of whining about it, fix it.  Build terrain and donate it to the store.  If you can't afford supplies, find someone who can and help them build the terrain.  Want to see some sort of event happen?  Write up a basic sketch of the idea, email someone at BG, and with their approval, go for it.  I'm currently working on a few ideas slanted at beginning hobbyists and a more casual crowd, completely unasked for by Chase.  Why?  Because I want to see these things happen, and I want them to be awesome. 

This shouldn't be about Plainville vs. Abington.  This isn't a zero-sum situation, we don't have to take away Plainville tournaments to add Abington tournaments, IF AND ONLY IF people on both sides step up and quit whining.


I turned down the snark.... a little bit.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: keithb on September 23, 2013, 08:54:21 PM
Hey does everyone remember when I fell and bashed my knee at work went to bed at 1 A.M. Got up early drove 50 minutes to Plainville limped my way into the store for a 40k tournament. Or that time the Fuel tank on my car ruptured and I had to find a ride which required me to do a 40 minute walk to my Father's work with my 40k stuff to get a ride to Battlegrounds to play in a 40k tournament. Pepperidge Farm Remembers.

If you want to play in a tournament you get yourself there somehow someway. I may be absolutely insane but that is how I see it.

Nice.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: keithb on September 23, 2013, 09:00:32 PM
Wow this had turned into a "us vrs. them". So warhammer is in PV, they earned it more. Got it. Cool.  I have no intrest in playing there. I will keep gamming in a "casual group" here in AB. I know the rest of us will as well. Thank for answers. Not much more to say, since this thread is breaking down into a round of insults. Its great you have people coming from all around Chase. You group up there as said before, is diffrent than what our style is. I want to game with others in that style, a a style we as an independent community developed over the last 10 years. Thanks for hearing us and please Bradpowers keep posting. I love feeling hate from PV players.

Has nothing to do with earning anything.  Show that a tournament in abington will do anything more than raising the gas cost of the plainville players.  I was only telling you and others to come to Plainville events to show the people who take the time to put them on that it wont be a waste.

I would love to see more fantasy events at either BG store, but whenever we host we get 12-14 tops.  Which is way less than 40k, so i understand that they won't get run as often, I don't bitch about it.

Like when the tournament go-ers from abington are 5% of the field at most events.  It doesn't inform the organizers that having one in abington is a good move.   Show them that it is, and they, and us "plainville" guys will glady come support your events.

Fuck, I used to drive up from Dartmouth MA for events in abington before Plainville store existed.  I've supported BG where-ever, when-ever.  For whatever reason, the people who also do this, seem to be closer to the plainville store.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: PhoenixFire on September 23, 2013, 09:06:00 PM
My issue with this whole conversation is that it seems that people are unappreciative of what Chase, Sam, Matt, and the other movers and shakers do for US, Plainvillers, Abingtonians, and area wargamers alike.  Frankly, saying that you're not willing to make a drive for a fun day of gaming, but that you EXPECT Chase et. al to do so, especially given the situation he's in (and which Chase has made clear in multiple posts) is disrespectful of Chase et. al. 

Saying that it's unfair, given historical turnouts for Plainville and Abington tournaments is absurd.  The fairest possible location to play in would be the average of all attendee's locations.  Unfortunately, that location is probably outside, and is also likely lacking in terrain.  Given that we have two locations to choose from, I suspect that Plainville is the "fairest" of them all.  The fact that a few vocal members are complaining loudly that the location doesn't suit them doesn't outweigh the dozens of silent tournament participants, nor should it.

My last point is this:  If YOU want to see tournaments, megabattles, etc. happen, MAKE THEM HAPPEN.  Chase has made it clear that due to terrain and other issues, he lacks the hours in the day to run multiple tournaments per month in multiple locations.  Instead of whining about it, fix it.  Build terrain and donate it to the store.  If you can't afford supplies, find someone who can and help them build the terrain.  Want to see some sort of event happen?  Write up a basic sketch of the idea, email someone at BG, and with their approval, go for it.  I'm currently working on a few ideas slanted at beginning hobbyists and a more casual crowd, completely unasked for by Chase.  Why?  Because I want to see these things happen, and I want them to be awesome. 

This shouldn't be about Plainville vs. Abington.  This isn't a zero-sum situation, we don't have to take away Plainville tournaments to add Abington tournaments, IF AND ONLY IF people on both sides step up and quit whining.


I turned down the snark.... a little bit.

Five lesser known facts about Brad Powers

5: Chase once tried to cancel a tournament due to 2ft of snow on the ground. Brad shoveled out the entire parking lot with only a cardboard Piezonis container so the tournament could go on.

4: Chaos Space Marines don't check under their bed for monsters, they check under their bed for Brad Powers

3: "Brad Club" is actually based in Roanoke Virginia and Brad makes the drive up every Thursday for 40k because he is that hardcore

2: Brad Powers doesn't sleep... he waits

1: Chuck Norris once came to Brad Powers for list building advice for his drop pod army "The Bearded Fists"
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: andalucien on September 23, 2013, 09:14:22 PM
6. Brad Powers' real name is "Power Powers", but he says his name is Brad in order to seem more approachable for the common man.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: SyRael on September 23, 2013, 09:18:39 PM
Battlegrounds owns Massachusetts in terms of gaming support and events. Like, legit for real. Other clubs in the area don't run 40k tournaments every month, and some don't even have a dedicated website, just facebook pages.

I think the BG staff does an outstanding job at running events. I personally only play GW games but they also do a great job with Magic, Warmachine, and basically whatever other game is thrown at them.

This summer we even had a really great 40k campaign that actually strengthened the 40k community because it gave gamers a chance to meet other gamers in the area.

BG even has annual megabattles where the staff rents out a hall to play 40k Apocalypse. 

BG caters to casual and competitive gamers all year round, so I really can't see why anyone would have a problem with support for events. In my experience as long as their is a demand for a particular gaming event, BG will meet and execute it in an efficient manner.

This is just my experience, I've been coming to Battlegrounds on and off since 2004.. this is actually the most active I've ever been in the wargaming scene, mostly due to the 40k campaign. I look forward to future events and campaigns @ BG.


I completly agree. Chase we love what tis store does for us and never has been our focus to imply otherwise. I like you thoughts also. I understand that both stores must bring it together so that we NEVER create a  "us-them" situation between the two stores.  I think the heart of the issue is that Friday night is among the best time for most of us to meet and play, but that night is for Magic and can never not be for Magic (the store needs to make money and has other people who play other games). I work like most people and showing up on a weekday nightafter 5 to play a 4 hr game is hard. I know this to be true for most of us. AB has the player base, but the space/time is an issue. Try Sat? We have and at times some of us can work out the time off. This is not an issue of the store's, rather one of those times the real life Fs it all up. There is not enough space on Friday nights, nor should we ask for it (If Derek does not make is money then there is no store). The issue about the warhammer stuff has become silly. Chase I trust that the staff does whatever is in thier power to do thier best and I think we all understand that shit breaks. I regule my destoryer arms before every game. And yes, I think it would be ideal to get a store employee to oversee warhammer in AB. The only issue that is getting us upset is way wording is being used, not by the store staff (I think). AB has shown over tens year of dedication to the events held at Battlegrounds and for some to imply that we are otherwise due to a diffrent gaming philosophy that is a bit more causal is ridiculous. With that said, I see this issue more as "Hey Chase this is what we need/ would like to do" and us helping him out. Chase I think you take the heat to much (but in away like it), and I just want you to understand that in no way are you this time at fault.


Bradpowers please read posts before you reply. As you will see, I even said before you decided to jump in for an attack, that NO STAFF! INCLUDING CHASE HAS ANY GODDAMN THING TO DO WITH THIS. Thanks. I will say it again if I have to. Your comments are what makes this an issue. Derek knows me, and I hope Chase knows me. They are good men. Steve only wanted to voice some thoughts and hopes. If you read anything that I posted, then you would understand what is being said.  Derek and Chase have done great things for us, but an issue came up and was being explored. Once again, please cont. to miss the mark and tell us in AB how you really feel.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: bradpowers on September 23, 2013, 09:27:52 PM
SyRael:  I have no issue with what you've said.  I'm not commenting on what you've said, because frankly, you're right on all counts.  I'm commenting on what others have said, and I think it should be clear who that is (I'm trying to avoid calling them out explicitly, as I don't want to hurt feelings).  I'm addressing what a few among the community have said, and am doing so at the bottom of the thread because, well, that's where new posts go.  The fact that it's after your post is coincidental, not intentional.

I apologize if I come across as being ridiculously protective of Chase and the rest of the Plainville crew, but it's in the bylaws of Brad Club:

Chase is in Brad Club.
The number one rule of Brad Club is that there are no rules to Brad Club.
The number two rule of Brad Club is that Brad Club sticks together.

With regards to my first name:  I have no first name.  I am a force of nature given a first name by puny mortals, so that they may comprehend my awesomeness.

Also, (and this is actually true) I experience time at a slightly slower rate due to my increased distance from the center of the earth (and thus higher speed), which because of relativity means I have more time for awesomeness.  I can actually feel my awesome time increase as I stand up.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Benjamin on September 23, 2013, 09:34:08 PM
/in before thread lock
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Loranus on September 23, 2013, 09:35:09 PM
Keith I am glad someone caught onto that and commented :P.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: SyRael on September 23, 2013, 10:02:43 PM
Ah, then Brad, I too would love to move beyond this. I understand the nature of forums. I love these stores and want to see them grow. I have never had an issue with anyone  in either store and found that I enjoy playing with  people from both stores. And at the end of this whole damn thing, the passion and emotion felt through all of this is what makes us some of the best  players in Ma. I look foward to destorying  you in gloriuos  warfare. I will even field Flayed Ones to make you feel like you could win.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Ian Mulligan on September 23, 2013, 10:28:21 PM
There's a lot of time that could be spent organizing things being wasted here, guys. How Derek's post didn't fix things for everyone is beyond me.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: SyRael on September 23, 2013, 10:46:43 PM
There's a lot of time that could be spent organizing things being wasted here, guys. How Derek's post didn't fix things for everyone is beyond me.

So wise is this one...

Derek said it best, tell him and show him and he shall provide. As I said before, whole thing had nothing to do with  Derek,  Chase, or anyone at the store. I think it was just an issue of of some questioning  loyalty and some misunderstood posts. Derek has to make money, if he doesn't no store. No store, no us. He has done fantastic things with both us and his staff. What place in this area hosts a Apoc. game like the one at BG? What game store has, well, two stores?  I have always made sure to buy through Derek, even when other places could save me some. Why? Because in part buying through him is like buying  stock in our community. Money well spent. Hey, lets plan a large group game. I try to run King of the Hill, or 750pt seek and finds in AB every few months. We are due for some AB style sillyness. After all this crap let get some ideas out there and game.  And if we can somehow work out the details, and if PV wants, I would run such an event up that way. I loved the last HQ dodgeball and think it would be better in 6th ed.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Chase on September 24, 2013, 02:31:55 AM
So I started writing this post before MNF.  I'm not deleting it even though tons of people have said things I completely agree with since.

Thanks for that.  Time to hit post...





It's not hate, Brandon.  It's not "us vs. them."

We host tournaments more often in Plainville because:

1) There is clear demand for them.
2) The community asks for them regularly.
3) The staff here are the people responsible for every aspect of organizing and executing 40k events for Battleground (outside of terrain transportation).
4) The community here doesn't mind a competitive event environment.

The Abington 40k crowd is awesome.  I know many of them pretty well.  At least we can all agree that they're very different.  Events WILL happen in Abington, which has been said.  Sometimes it takes hearing from the community, even if it comes across as lashing out, to let us know it's time to give them an event that they want.


Here's the current dilemma:

I am going to run a  1250pt "Power Armor" event in October in addition to the Plainville Doubles.  I was planning to host it in Plainville on the 19th.

Now, we've got 4-5 "unhappy" Abington people.  So with little thought the solution seems simple...  Run it in Abington on the 19th instead.  Except that there's a Magic event for charity scheduled on the 19th (for lots of different reasons).

Aside:  It makes little sense to me that someone in Abington might see the event, think "This is awesome!" and then not play only because it's in Plainville.

"So do it on another weekend in October!"

Well... Plainville has an event on October 5th, and Plainville will have an event on Nov 2nd also.  Putting an event in Abington on the off weeks has us running back to back. Running 40k events on back to back weekends isn't something I'm interested in until the staff and terrain situation is at a point where it doesn't tax either location's schedule too much.

"So do this event in Abington on Nov 2nd instead."

This isn't an optimal choice.  The reasons why might take too long to get into.

"So run it on a Sunday."

Is this an option?  Is Sunday better?  Is a tournament something you ACTUALLY want, or is this all belly-aching for any event instead of something specific?  Will someone from that community check lists so I don't have to have Sam do it?  Am I better off setting it up for Abington than I am Plainville?




I was recently sent an email that I feel is best addressed publicly.  It's a list of comments and questions which I'll take one by one.

Quote
1. a small tournament in Abington that had 10 players show up from the local community is considered a failure by [Chase], but a success by the regulars.
--- This should highlight part of the problem, I don't think anyone in Abington is requesting huge events to draw from across the neighboring area, they just want an excuse to get down and have fun.

I don't consider it a failure, but if I said I wasn't disappointed in the Abington attendance I'd be lying.

For a long time Abington people asked for this specific event.  We brought it there.  Half the people that went were Plainville regulars, some were tournament regulars, and 40% of the people were from the community the event was held for.

I think this person is exactly right about this highlighting the problem.  No one in Abington is requesting huge events that draw from the neighboring area.  In fact, points later further down this list suggest that they're interested in specifically the opposite.  So I'll ask...

Why on earth would I spend time, effort, energy, and money (to pay employees, if nothing else) on promoting and advertising some sort of exclusive event targeted to only people that frequent one location?  Why wouldn't I allow and encourage ANYONE who's willing to play to show up, roll dice, meet some new people, and have some fun?  Is it okay with the Abington guys to have a few Plainville people show up?  What about some of the more competitive tournament regulars?

If it's all about getting down and having fun, tournaments are not the answer.  If tournaments aren't the answer, are the complaints about tournament frequency moot?

Quote
2. A lot of that community really does not enjoy playing in Plainville, that's coming over as excuses and travel issues etc. but the reality is the fun factor is a different, or at least perceived as being that way. Right or wrong its a perception and that is everything which means people are not going to go to Plainville.

This is a shame.  It's my opinion that a lot of the Abington community hasn't been to Plainville either:

1) More than once, or..
2) In over a year.

The one guy that has played in a 40k event in Plainville this year has specifically said that he doesn't like having to travel here early in the morning.  I get it.  It's a shame, but I get it.

I think saying that they don't enjoy playing in Plainville translates into "They don't enjoy playing tournaments in Plainvillle."  I'm not sure people outside of Brad, Mike M, and Jeff have played a non-tournament here game here in Plainville... umm... ever?  It might be an over statement, but it's not far from being accurate if it isn't already.

If Brad, Mike M, and Jeff are the people representing the Plainville community up in Abington, I am 100000% comfortable with that.  They're all amazing and I can't imagine anyone having a less than enjoyable game against any of them.  In fact, BRAD was the only person who emailed me after I asked if anyone there would be comfortable hosting / running any smaller events!

Anyhow, all of that is pointless.  People think the fun factor is different. That perception, right or wrong (like the person asking these questions said), means people from there aren't going to come to events here.  It seems strange to me, especially when it's based on the vocal opinions of VERY few, who's last experiences were probably a year ago, but it is what it is.

I'd encourage anyone who thinks it's less fun to play in Plainville to come down on a Thursday night.  I am reasonably sure that they'll be able to find any sort of game they're looking for.  We've got new people, veterans, tournament guys, and non-tournament guys that show up every week.  The culture here does promote playing by the rules though.  This isn't any sort of jab, but I know some people dislike when they're corrected and view it as "rules lawyering" which may leave a bad taste.

Quote
3. Being told you MUST go to Plainville events to get one in Abington; seriously? Why have two stores? This also feeds into point 2 above..

I feel like I've addressed this one a couple times in this thread so far.  I feel like people who are interested in 40k tournaments are typically willing to travel 35-45 minutes to attend one.  The events go up on these boards roughly a month in advance, they go up on Facebook, a Facebook event is created specifically inviting everyone I can think of that might be interested, a newsletter gets sent out promoting them, and a results post gets made after each event.

Point:  People know about them, they run often, and almost no one from the Abington community comes out for them.  This sends a VERY clear message to me.  That message is: "We do not enjoy competitive 40k events (tournaments)."

Do you have to come to Plainville tournaments to get events in Abington?  No.  Events will be run in Abington, but it will be far less frequent (more on this below).  If this is less about tournaments and more about events, can I please remind the Abington community that you are just wrapping up a ten week league there?  That's a lot of 40k over the summer and into this fall.

I feel like I've said it a few times, but Abington WILL continue to get events periodically.  We purposely did not want to schedule a tournament while the league was running.

About having two stores...  Well there's obvious reasons I won't touch on.  Really, it allows us twice the amount of Saturdays and Sundays with which to organize and plan events on.  You know what it doesn't do?  It doesn't give us twice the time to organize and plan events with.  In fact, it greatly reduces the amount of time I (we) have to organize and plan events with at a given location because I (we) have to divide time between the two stores.  Sam doesn't have twice the time to check lists with, Matt doesn't have twice the time to get terrain set with, build the packets with, etc.  The Abington employees, for the most part, have an ENDLESS stream of shitty work they should be doing at all times.  I don't envy them and don't expect any more from them.

So, given that, Keith's post is right on the money.  It makes poor sense to shift events away from where they're consistent and successful.  Limited time allows for limited events.  When there is extra time, there might be extra events (based on other scheduling stuff).  I would expect to see more than normal in October and November.  Each month presents difficult things to schedule around, but I should be able to get them done.  (You know, when I'm not spending time defending and justifying myself to the people I'm trying to provide a fun environment for. ;))

Quote
4. Expectations were set by Staff about more numerous events at Abington, can you blame people for wanting to play in their shiny new store?

Absolutely not!  I don't blame them at all.  We ran 2 events there in the first 4ish months it was open (on either ends of PAX).  They were both well attended, as is to be expected.  It probably is worth mentioning again that the first two events in the new location were not (in my opinion) heavily attended by Abington regulars.  This, plus the whole Abington people going to Plainville thing leads me to believe that tournaments aren't in demand.  If tournaments were in some sort of huge demand, doesn't it stand to reason that a bunch of Abington guys would have come out for the first couple 40k events in their new, shiny, awesome home base?

I'm just trying to be logical about all of this.  I'm not interested in shorting anyone or neglecting any given community.

Now, I will concede that there should have been (and should be) more non-competitive events there and in general.  Sadly, they take time and feedback to develop.  Two and in the works currently.

Quote
5. Terrain, if we need to wait until we've more tables built and terrain built then that's understood and will happen, just don't get all butt hurt when the Abington players point out that a lot of terrain from their store is now in Plainville...

I'm used to Abington guys talking about the terrain situation, even if I couldn't disagree with them more.

Currently Abington has more tables than Plainville and better terrain than Plainville.  Plainville happens to have more terrain than Abington for one very obvious reason:  We host more events.

Throwing together 6 awesome tables in Abington is very doable.  Throwing together 17+ tables there without making a trip to Plainville and back isn't realistic.  This is an issue that plays into deciding where events happen.  I've covered it in this thread already.



Really, if Abington wants smaller, casual, non-competitive events, I think it's best if the community comes together to design, organize and execute them.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: MM3791 on September 24, 2013, 05:33:52 AM
Abington is in the process of finishing a 10 week 40k campaign and is wrapping up the campaign with several pending Apocalypse battles, so yea that is definitely a ton of competitive 40k in a relatively short amount of time.

People can't expect BG to have events in locations where there is no demand.. why do you think there aren't any fantasy tournaments? It doesn't make sense if only 4 people show up.

People also can't expect BG to solve their personal logistical issues.. that's just unrealistic. "Why can't BG provide shuttle services from my house to cart my ass to the store?" /sarcasm

Seriously if you want to go to an event then you'll find a way to go. The argument is invalided when someone complains about a 40 minute drive(once a month), when native Canadians start showing up to BG tourneys(on time I might add), and without any complaints to boot.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Benjamin on September 24, 2013, 08:03:15 AM
The culture here does promote playing by the rules though.  This isn't any sort of jab, but I know some people dislike when they're corrected and view it as "rules lawyering" which may leave a bad taste.
I didn't know this perception existed.

At Thursday 40k, the belief is that playing by the rules will ultimately make you a better player. We interpret the rules as if it were a tournament game. Creativity is encouraged within the rules, but not with the rules.

We know there are many, many rules in 40k! No one is expected to know all the rules, just as no one should think they know all the rules. No one should be offended that his opponent is consulting the rules, just as players shouldn't be made to feel uncomfortable by consulting the rules.

I'd like to think of this sentiment as part of an unstated gentleman's agreement regarding sportsmanship, the sort of thing the game expects from its players. In this way, I'd like to think player from all walks and experiences can play a common game, and walk away feeling it has been adjudicated fairly.

If there are criticisms of this concept, I'd love to hear them. Seems to be the thread for such things.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Mike_k on September 24, 2013, 12:15:45 PM
Dark Star is hosting an event in honor of this thread.

This Thursday at BG Plainville (Ironic I know /wink) we will be hosting a little thing called Hughammer.  Anyone who shows up and wishes to do so can get a free hug from anyone there from Dark Star.  As a bonus anyone who requests and receives a hug can also make a game impacting roll in any of the games we are partaking in, if and only if they have received a hug.

I will be playing against Bill McMuffin and if you decide you want to feel the power of a devastation banner and 24 TL bolter shots come on over, ask for a hug and grab a handful (not of my ass) of dice and chuck em!.  Want to see a silly space marine chapter master on a bike in combat and feel his power then you know what to do!

See you there!
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: PhoenixFire on September 24, 2013, 01:09:01 PM
Dark Star is hosting an event in honor of this thread.

This Thursday at BG Plainville (Ironic I know /wink) we will be hosting a little thing called Hughammer.  Anyone who shows up and wishes to do so can get a free hug from anyone there from Dark Star.  As a bonus anyone who requests and receives a hug can also make a game impacting roll in any of the games we are partaking in, if and only if they have received a hug.

I will be playing against Bill McMuffin and if you decide you want to feel the power of a devastation banner and 24 TL bolter shots come on over, ask for a hug and grab a handful (not of my ass) of dice and chuck em!.  Want to see a silly space marine chapter master on a bike in combat and feel his power then you know what to do!

See you there!

Will the gentlemen from Dark Star be showering beforehand?
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Mike_k on September 24, 2013, 01:12:25 PM
Being clean and as odor free as possible is a club requirement, not a choice for our members.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Tharcil on September 24, 2013, 01:16:49 PM
Dark Star is hosting an event in honor of this thread.

This Thursday at BG Plainville (Ironic I know /wink) we will be hosting a little thing called Hughammer.  Anyone who shows up and wishes to do so can get a free hug from anyone there from Dark Star.  As a bonus anyone who requests and receives a hug can also make a game impacting roll in any of the games we are partaking in, if and only if they have received a hug.

I will be playing against Bill McMuffin and if you decide you want to feel the power of a devastation banner and 24 TL bolter shots come on over, ask for a hug and grab a handful (not of my ass) of dice and chuck em!.  Want to see a silly space marine chapter master on a bike in combat and feel his power then you know what to do!

See you there!

This thread totally needed more hugs.  Well played!
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: keithb on September 24, 2013, 01:19:57 PM
Being clean and as odor free as possible is a club requirement, not a choice for our members.

It's why I haven't been allowed to attend a tournament in a while...  :'(
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: PhoenixFire on September 24, 2013, 03:07:00 PM
Being clean and as odor free as possible is a club requirement, not a choice for our members.

It's why I haven't been allowed to attend a tournament in a while...  :'(

I thought it was because Bill was jealous of your beard and forbade you
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: bradpowers on September 24, 2013, 03:12:20 PM
I'm going to crush Dark Star.  Literally.  During hugtime.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: PhoenixFire on September 24, 2013, 04:28:00 PM
I'm going to crush Dark Star.  Literally.  During hugtime.

Don't crush them all, or you'll be labeled as a "serial crusher"... they take that very seriously in southie

http://youtu.be/KdP2avo-Mfg?t=46s
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Battleground on September 24, 2013, 04:31:30 PM
In the grim darkness of the far future, there are no hugs.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Grimwulfe on September 24, 2013, 04:46:12 PM
Derek you obviously havent been around Darkstar during our annual meetings!!!  They are hugtastic!!  We bring the Pink to the Grim Darkness!!
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: bradpowers on September 24, 2013, 04:53:11 PM
In the grim darkness of the Brad hug, there is no breathing.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: the_trooper on September 24, 2013, 06:12:50 PM
Derek you obviously havent been around Darkstar during our annual meetings!!!  They are hugtastic!!  We bring the Pink to the Grim Darkness!!

So many responses I typed out and none of them appropriate for a family friendly website.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Sam Butler on September 24, 2013, 08:37:14 PM
Well this thread has become decidly odd :o  :o
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Chase on September 24, 2013, 08:42:19 PM
This thread was odd before it was odd.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: The_Chef on September 24, 2013, 08:48:33 PM
This thread is all wrong.  Attacking the wrong enemies. Not Plainville vs Abington. It should be Miniature Players Vs Magic Cards. Just this week up in the north lands of Abington the 40k Tables were dismantled so that those entitled magic players had more room for their cards and backpacks. For shame!  ;D
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Mike_k on September 26, 2013, 04:12:13 PM
I will not be able to spend much time at the store tonight so the hugability will be limited.  Helping a friend through a personal crisis and he needs the hugs more.

Sorry bro's but I wont be there past 7.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: King of the Elves on September 29, 2013, 03:34:51 AM
I have been reading this thread from a distance, and now that people have seemed to calm down and their blood pressure is normal, I would like to add in my $0.02:

1) Grow up!

       -Honestly people, we are men playing with plastic overpriced action figures here. Lower the testosterone, and just take a chill pill.

2) Coming from a Abington Regular

       - I would love to see more events in Abington, I'm not talking every month, or even every other month, but often enough that my lucky tournament dice don't gather *too* much dust.

3) Coming from a 40K player

      - PV is the spot for 40K, kinda like how AB is the spot for WM/H. I have been meaning to go down to PV for some 40K, but not having a car/ license makes it kinda hard haha. But if I did have those 2 very important things, I wouldn't mind downing a monster energy, waking up early, and driving a hour to PV to crush some n00bs! No pain no gain!! PV IS the better spot to hold 40K tourneys, but we would like a little of the love too.

4) Whose store is it?

       - We all like to act important, but we have to understand that we are not in charge. If PV works better for Chase, I hope the Abingneers understand. If AB works better for Chase &/or Derek; I hope the Plainvillers understand. But all in all, it's their call.

 That's all I can really say, and if you disagree please comment, but do so in a "friendly" manner. Please.

 -Dylan 

P.S: This:
answered all of our questions, from then on it has just been one giant argument.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Grand Master Steve on October 06, 2013, 12:11:31 AM
I have further developed a larger opinion on this subject. i will keep it off the forums to avoid a very large flame war not just between Plainville and Abington
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Ian Mulligan on October 06, 2013, 12:19:37 AM
Seems pretty stupid to make a post announcing you think something that will upset people but then say you don't want to.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Benjamin on October 06, 2013, 01:23:42 AM
Seems pretty stupid to make a post announcing you think something that will upset people but then say you don't want to.

I want to reply to this.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Chase on October 06, 2013, 03:19:26 AM
This thread seems to be about airing out dirty laundry, so feel free to post it, Steve.  If you think your opinion should be heard and don't want to post it publicly please send me a PM or email.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Grand Master Steve on October 06, 2013, 03:47:17 AM
alright a nameless regular at Abington was saying that mini gaming there is on the decline because of Magic. I said well its disheartening for me to walk in and see magic matches on tables that are usually set up for mini games. He said well that's usually for a pre-release and i said it wasn't and in not so many words I was told to deal with it, Magic draws more money in the end. I countered but you can easily be at your house with buds at the kitchen table and play magic that's not as easy with mini games. The nameless player said he doesn't have any friends that's why he takes up Abington space. This person also decided to point out how much money is dumped on magic. I countered, would he like to see my store record to see how much I bought over the years? He replied no but you have to get updated rules as often as we have to get new cards and your new rule books cost more then new cards which confused the hell out of me since he stated earlier Magic brings in money and costs money.

Needless to say this kinda pissed me off as he also insinuated that Abington Employees do not care about mini gaming and they are to busy with Magic Cards to make an effort to care. He also said the other problem is Plainville takes Terrain, and when its returned its wrecked. I wasnt going to get into that argument but he pointed that Chase cares about his 40k players to the extent hes probably willing to give hand jobs.   I said what ever we are done and left the store since I only stopped in to pick up some stuff for my GF to work on when im at the store painting.

What ever the nameless person was being a dick and was just trolling me.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Sam Butler on October 06, 2013, 04:11:12 AM
Hey steve thanks for leaving the person nameless here as his/her/its/other pronoun of choice is not relevant to the discussion here.
The conduct of the afore mentioned individual however I find troubling.   If sincere then those sentiments are at best rude, and at worst insulting.  Not that chase needs or probably wants any one to defend him (he is quite cabable of speaking on his own behalf)

Also the abington employees care enough about mini stuff to support some heafty organized endeavors.  Between the 40k league, zombie crawls, and wm/h stuff...
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Chase on October 06, 2013, 06:14:53 AM
Feel free to point the nameless person to this thread.  I feel like a bunch of it has been touched on already, but I'll list some things in an effort to clear stuff up if it's confusing people.


1) I'm not sure I believe the prevalence of Magic in Abington has much to do with the popularity of miniature gaming there.  Maybe secondarily, at best.

2) As far as I know, and I could be wrong (but I'm probably not), Abington has between 4 and 6 tables set up for miniature gaming in excess of 95% of the time.  I would imagine that if you saw card players playing on tables that normally have 4x6 footers on them that it was during a prerelease weekend or shortly after.  If it was not during a prerelease weekend or shortly after, there was probably at least two tables set up for miniature gaming.  If I were a betting man, I'd probably bet that having 2 tables set up for miniature gaming is probably more table space than is required on any given non-Thursday.  (I don't imagine more than 1 table at a time is being used very often outside of Thursday.  I'm sure it happens every week, but I do not believe it's common.)

3) It's certainly easier to play Magic than it is to play 40k, but I'm not sure that should really factor in to how much space is given over to a particular kind of game.

I'll level with you a bit:  Both stores have more space than they need given over to table top miniature gaming in their default configuration.  This is for several reasons.  First, it's important to represent table top miniature games as an obvious thing we do.  Second, miniature players (and all hobby gamers) LOVE to see cool tables and cool terrain set up for "their" game. There's certainly an attachment there (which seems to be the root of your post, Steve).  Three, it decreases the amount of shuffling around the staff / community needs to do when the demand for table space spikes.  Ex. Thursdays in both locations.  Four, in Abington's case, there's almost always plenty of room for it.

In Plainville I'd absolutely LOVE to get rid of two 4x6' tables.  The only night of the week where I need more than 4 tables set up is Thursday, and some Thursdays I don't need more than 4 (exception: miniature leagues of any kind).  What I do need are more tables for board gamers and card players almost every non-Thursday night.  Currently we have to move the store around in some fashion almost every day.  Unfortunately, those six 4x6's represent like 80% of my storage.  I need them!

Really, the amount of 4x6' tables each store has set up needs to be a balance between demand, ascetics, and practicality in general.  It's EXTREMELY easy to look at one very uncommon occurrence and make mountains out of mole hills.

4) The amount of money a given player or player-base / community spends on their respective game doesn't directly factor into how many tables we set up "for" that game.  Might strong Magic (or 40k) sales imply a large, active player-base?  Sure.  Might a large, active player-base imply lots of people showing up to play that game at a given time?  Sure.  Our job is to respond to that while still keeping ascetics and practicality in mind.  Do we made mistakes / not go the extra mile after working 54 of 72 hours?  Yup.

5) We will not show anyone any generalized information on their "purchase history" at Battleground.

6) The Abington employees ALWAYS have Magic related stuff they can / should be doing.  That's the nature of the beast right now.  Feel free to talk to Cale about how much stuff needs to get done with respect to Magic cards at any point.  Because of all that work there's not a tremendous amount of time leftover for other projects, especially after normal store related things are done and handled.  Still, Nick's primary responsibility for these last 10 or 11 weeks has been to handle the 40k league.  That's wrapping up.  If Nick is going to step up and be "the miniatures guy" or if you guys view him as "the miniatures guy" I would encourage him / you to communicate any ideas as far as what you'd like to see next so that we can make it happen.

If this matters... Cale owns 2 Commander decks and his most recent gaming related purchase was a Menoth army for Warmachine, which he's played a few times.  Chad doesn't play Magic and used to own a ton of 40k stuff.  Nick (as far as I know) doesn't really play Magic and definitely has / plays miniature games.  Derek doesn't know the first freaking thing about Magic and has Necrons, Khador, and a very small amount of Empire.  They all like some form of RP.

7)  Are we really at this terrain thing again?  Has Plainville taken terrain from Abington?  Yes.  Has Plainville taken a lot of terrain from Abington?  Yes.  Has Plainville taken terrain from Abington in 2013?  Not that I remember.  Does terrain get damaged in transit?  Yes.  Does terrain get damaged in use?  Yes.  Has Plainville returned anything recently?  Not that I remember.

Here's the thing...  Plainville is 3 years old, like literally to the day (Grand Opening was like October 4th 2010 or something).  We had to take some terrain to outfit it originally, of course.  Over the first year Plainville ran miniature tournaments that were literally 3 times the size of anything we'd ever done before.  As this was happening an amazing, active community began to grow. [[Pro tip: It's a really good sign when new game stores have rapidly growing miniature communities.]]  We needed more terrain on a frequent basis, so we took more / transported more.  In year two Mike Salzman started making TONS of terrain for Plainville because the community, based around Thursday 40k! and the events, was still growing and sustaining.  The complaints on these message boards shifted from "Why does Plainville take all of our terrain" to "Why does Plainville get all the cool new stuff." Still growing... Needed more stuff....  Got someone from the community to make more stuff.....  This 3rd year, Battleground was given a bunch of tables an terrain by the Dark Star Wargaming Club, most of which is in Abington.  Paul has made a ton of stuff, all of which is in Abington.

8 ) I don't care about any game or player-base more or less than any other.  I like people that play games.  I want to give players the type gaming experience they're looking for.  If the Magic guys want a certain kind of event, I hope I know it.  If the 40k guys want a certain kind of event, I hope I know it.  If I know it, I'll do what I can to make it happen so long as it fits into the schedule / calendar.

I feel like it's a super common misconception that BG employees like and dislike one player-base over another.  Personally, some people (that rarely or never see / talk to me) seem to think I favor the 40k community and straight-up don't care about WM/H.  That's not accurate at all.  I happen to like the fact that I can almost always order what I want from GW and dislike the fact that I often times can't order the Privateer Press stuff that I want, but that's where it ends.

9) I can promise that I won't be passing out hand jobs.  Sorry to those of you who are disappointed by that.  I can also promise that all of you can find someone that is willing to give you a handjob.


Anyways, people misconstrued all sorts of everything.  Perception is the law and it's all that matters.  If anyone is ever upset, unhappy, and/or confused by something they see or experience at either BG, PLEASE let me know about it and I'll try to clear it up or take care of it.  A simple question can save us all a lot of time.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Benjamin on October 06, 2013, 10:25:29 AM
9) I can promise that I won't be passing out hand jobs.  Sorry to those of you who are disappointed by that.  I can also promise that all of you can find someone that is willing to give you a handjob.
A clip from Wayne's World that's suddenly relevant.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2BeBdEqmJ0
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: MM3791 on October 06, 2013, 02:57:34 PM
Gamers now have the option of trading store credit for dating advice  ;D
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Grand Master Steve on October 06, 2013, 04:52:44 PM
Sorry i was just a bit annoyed with the individual feeling the need to open a matter that is scabbing over with me. I will keep the individual nameless on the message board. Im sure the person was just trying to troll me and It did get an emotional raise out of me.

I figured this subject was closed, Derrek and Chase are aware of whats going on and opinions and this individual opened something for me that was scabbing over not fully healed yet.

Do I 100% believe this individual? No the person can go fly.

Was I concerned about things? Yes I will admit I was.

Do I feel minature gaming is not getting as much attention as it used to? Yes. I think maybe more fun events even community run ones would be fun. In the past before BG ive seen veichle races, tank wars, Space Station battles it was a blast. I think we can create some terrain for new events. I am aware Magic is a time vampire for the Abington Staff because its constantly coming and going. I think we as a community need to step up and help out. with my current job, thats hard because I cant predict with any degree of accuracy when i will have free time. I am trying to get a new job to hopefully open my free time up.

Oddly enough i was in the store for Yugioh cards as I enjoy playing it among my circle of friends and my GF that do play. BTW Derrek are you aware on the official Yugioh web site BG Abington is listed as actively running tournaments? I saw that when i was getting an updated banned resdtricted list. A few other stores im sure dont run it any more are also listed, weird.

I have heard a few opinions out side the store and message board. I prefer to discuss it with the owner and management in person JUST so they know what I have heard im not trying to step on toes or throw some one under a speeding bus.

Lastly, am I  pissed? no. I think the situation regaurding mini gaming in Abington needs a little TLC. I heard a painting area is going to be established that will be awsome, a tourney is coming up, which should be sweet, i sadly do not think i can get the time off to do it.

Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: keithb on October 07, 2013, 10:17:41 AM
The popularity of mini-wargaming stuff goes in cycles.  Magic is more constant.

Also, lets not kid ourselves.  GW games lately have been going DOWN in quality, that, combined with the player base growing UP and having less time to spend on a hobby, and less of a desire, because the game is not as good.

Mid 2000s'  We used to get 20+ to a WHFB event at Gamehaven, same thing for danger planet.   probably 10-14 at abington.   Now, we have a tournament like once every 3 months or so at best, and it has 12 people, and the other stores are closed.

Mini purchasing is also in bursts, magic is more constant.  Honestly, Magic is what allows game stores to be open so we all have a nice place to play.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: MM3791 on October 07, 2013, 01:53:25 PM
Also, lets not kid ourselves.  GW games lately have been going DOWN in quality, that, combined with the player base growing UP and having less time to spend on a hobby, and less of a desire, because the game is not as good.

This is purely speculative, I believe that 6th ed 40k is the best edition to date, especially with the allies ruleset. WHFB 8th ed is pretty solid too, an improvement over 5th ed "herohammer" and 6-7th ed cannons and calvary spam. 8th made infantry a lot more viable, seriously I don't remember any battle (real or fantasy) that only consisted of knights and warmachines. I understand the changes to magic might've been too extreme. Can't deny that support for both GW systems have skyrocketed in 2013, more then any other point in GW history.

Mid 2000s'  We used to get 20+ to a WHFB event at Gamehaven, same thing for danger planet.   probably 10-14 at abington.   Now, we have a tournament like once every 3 months or so at best, and it has 12 people, and the other stores are closed.

Mini purchasing is also in bursts, magic is more constant.  Honestly, Magic is what allows game stores to be open so we all have a nice place to play.

I definitely remember wargaming in the mid 2000s', lots of events in MA. Although there are multiple reasons that those stores could've shutdown, and I don't think any of us will truly know. I find it hard to believe they shutdown because WHFB all of a sudden became less popular locally. Derek has always stated that more diverse game system support is mandatory for any store to succeed, and BG always supports any game that has an invested player base. In that time BG has also opened a 2nd store while the others went out of business. This year there have been a TON of 40k events(3 events this month ALONE), if players want to put the effort into re-energizing a specific player base(WHFB), then BG will support it with appropriate events.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: keithb on October 07, 2013, 04:19:44 PM
You can speculate all you want or look at numbers, there were Fantasy events 2-3 times a month that had 15-25 players across multiple stores.   Now, there are events once every two months at best.  When they do happen, they get like 12 people.

Sounds like Fantasy is much more popular now!
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: MM3791 on October 07, 2013, 06:07:49 PM
Yea I know that, that's why I said "locally", you said GW as in "as a whole", which I disagree with because 40k is doing really well. Hopefully WHFB 9th ed will come this coming summer.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Benjamin on October 07, 2013, 06:46:29 PM
I don't know what the financial numbers look like, but I can attest even in Plainville, the number of regular players seems down. Last summer we'd struggle to have enough tables, topping out at 12. This summer, we'd struggle to fill the 6 already set up. It makes hard work even harder.

ETA: We're steady, just not growing like we have in years past. A polarizing rules set, a subdued economy and the rising prices of the hobby all contributed to this.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: PhoenixFire on October 07, 2013, 08:14:30 PM
I don't know what the financial numbers look like, but I can attest even in Plainville, the number of regular players seems down. Last summer we'd struggle to have enough tables, topping out at 12. This summer, we'd struggle to fill the 6 already set up. It makes hard work even harder.

ETA: We're steady, just not growing like we have in years past. A polarizing rules set, a subdued economy and the rising prices of the hobby all contributed to this.

Just going off the last five doubles events we had...

Oct 13: 19 teams/38 people
June 13: 20 teams/40 people
Feb 13: 27 teams/54 people
Nov 12: 22 teams/44 people
May 12: 25 teams/ 50 people

Seems pretty consistent in the doubles department

going off the last several singles...

Aug 13 1500: 28 people
July 13 1850: 29 people
April 13 2000: 23 people
March 13 1850: 37 people

mostly consistent

then you have the odd ball ones...

500pt ones are interesting and tend to draw large crowds of people old and new to the game

this new armor war is an interesting change up and hopefully pulls in the people

I've been wanting a 2500 pt tournament forever and we're finally having one... unfortunately i'm working... and it's in Abington... so hopefully enough Abington people step up and this gets enough interest that Chase will want to do another one down the road.

Trios is always fun and i understand Chases reservations on doing them because it requires 3 people to commit to a team and to actually SHOW UP. Every event at BG constantly has people dropping out at the last minute unfortunately, but hopefully we can try for a Trios again next year.

Doubles seems to be the biggest 40k moneymaker for BG, and singles provides the GT practice and other point levels fun for everyone else.

thanks to Chase and Sam for doing all the heavy lifting for all the 40k tournaments

Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Loranus on October 07, 2013, 08:23:00 PM
I think Ben was talking about Thursday 40k moreso than the Tournaments Phoenix. I myself have been struggling with both Time,Energy, and Money to drive down to either store to play and I feel a lot of people are that way right now.

The best thing I think people can do is to keep playing. This is a game and the only way that game becomes popular is when people play it.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Benjamin on October 07, 2013, 09:09:39 PM
I think Ben was talking about Thursday 40k moreso than the Tournaments Phoenix.
I was, but those stats are very, very interesting.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Chase on October 07, 2013, 09:17:23 PM
I hadn't taken the time to put all the numbers in front of my eyes at the same time, but it's definitely true that tournament attendance has tapered off since 6th edition.

There's lots of reasons for that though, only some of which have to do with the game / price of models.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Mad Dok Rob on October 08, 2013, 08:52:45 AM
I don't know what the financial numbers look like, but I can attest even in Plainville, the number of regular players seems down. Last summer we'd struggle to have enough tables, topping out at 12. This summer, we'd struggle to fill the 6 already set up. It makes hard work even harder.


Part of the problem with 40k (at least for me, which is why I pretty much never play anymore) is Orks are not fun in 6th...actually, they are pretty bad.  Until GW decides to update them in some fashion, there is no reason to throw them down on the table.

I used to be there pretty much every other Thursday, but now I would rather play Warmachine or something else.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Grimwulfe on October 08, 2013, 09:11:24 AM
Chase the simple fact that there was no Invitational this year could of had a direct effect on attendance.  I know of many people that went out of their way to attend tournies for that simple reason.  And I know a good number of people that were bummed it didnt continue.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Tharcil on October 08, 2013, 10:20:03 AM
Chase the simple fact that there was no Invitational this year could of had a direct effect on attendance.  I know of many people that went out of their way to attend tournies for that simple reason.  And I know a good number of people that were bummed it didnt continue.

I definitely had more pressure on me to get in more events or make my schedule work to try and get a slot for the invitational last year.  For the middle of the pack players attendance was the way in and definitely factored in for me when I was on the fence for attending an event or not.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Chase on October 08, 2013, 01:23:31 PM
Interesting.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: GossWeapon on October 11, 2013, 02:44:21 AM
I don't even know how to troll this thread...  There is terrain in Abington, and I've seen people play.  But, there's two of those people that I see attending events regularly.  Obviously there is a disconnect and it is not the store's fault.  This post will probably get deleted,but someone should say it: Maybe it's the people complaining that are the problem.
Title: Re: Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency
Post by: Battleground on October 11, 2013, 03:11:44 AM
Welcome to Battleground Games, Hobbies, and Conflict Mitigation.  ;)