Battleground Games Forum
Games Workshop => Warhammer 40K => Topic started by: shwnlyns on October 12, 2013, 10:14:13 AM
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so GW has released sisters of battle, I mean Adepta Sororitas. Who say this one coming, I hadn't heard a thing until I loaded the GW web page and there it was, ready to order. No hard cover book though, looks like just a digital copy for now.
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yeah they did manage to sneak this one in stealthily didn't they? They've been previewing it a bit on Digital Releases facebook page, etc, for the last couple weeks.
They already showed a page which shows that the minimum squad size for regular Sisters is now 5, and that they can still take a heavy weapon and a special weapon. This is an absolutely huge and fantastic change. Now they can actually ride in their dedicated transport Immolators, for one thing.
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no new models either just the rediculously expensive metal ones
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Its really just a rerelease of the white dwarf codex with some updates for sixth edition. I kind of knew it was coming like a month ago.
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its a shame they could have made a plastic kit for them that would cover every sister unit on foot, and keep the Seriphim pewter
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I've seen things for a little while. Unsure if the "codex" is anything new or if it's just the WD stuff.
Like you've said, no new models.
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the "Codex" is probably a complimation of the stuff from the white dwarf with some extras like art and story.
If they made a Sisters plastic kit that came with all the options for a squad, ide buy one kit just to paint and put some effort into making look display worthy. Its a shame because to get a special weapon you have to order the pewter ones in addition to the squad which comes with a special weapon you probably dont want, and some horrid sister of battle models which look dated. Seems like GW is just trying to move them if you ask me.
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Like I said, there's at least one major rules change in the upcoming release (min squad size for sisters). Supposedly also the faith point system will be redone. Maybe some other changes too.
But, there won't be any new units (since there's no model release this was inevitable). Probably much of it will be copy-paste from the white dwarf...
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Holeeeeeeeeeeeeee crap.
Some people already have the new codex and have been posting info....
It is actually looking more like a COMPLETE AND TOTAL REWRITE. Nothing copy pasted. No unit left untouched....
very cool....
Celestine nerfed hardcore :( But then, if they were really gonna do a rewrite this was inevitable.
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Holeeeeeeeeeeeeee crap.
Some people already have the new codex and have been posting info....
It is actually looking more like a COMPLETE AND TOTAL REWRITE. Nothing copy pasted. No unit left untouched....
very cool....
Celestine nerfed hardcore :( But then, if they were really gonna do a rewrite this was inevitable.
interesting... wonder how this bodes for blood angels since theyre supposedly next for a digital codex
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PhoenixFire, Codex is already for sale at Black Library.com. I just bought it :) haven't opened it yet.... baby jusssssttt went to sleep.... ohboyoboyoboyoboy
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Well, Saint Celestine is still pretty good, I think.
She's mostly the same, except
- she's 135 pts instead of 115
- she has hit and run all by herself
- argent sword is master crafted is straight str 5 in CC instead of always wounding on a 4+
- she doesn't keep rolling to come back forever. She only can do it once per game. But, all she needs to do to come back is pass a leadership test. And she comes back at full wounds.
So... yeah... maybe not "cheaty" anymore, but still pretty damn good
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Hmm....
so, here's a legal troop unit in new codex:
Immolator with a multi-melta, 5 sisters inside with Flamer/Heavy Flamer/ Combi Flamer.
(or flip it for the same cost, immolator has twin linked heavy flamer, and give the sisters melta/melta/combi-melta).
Total cost: 150 points.
Certainly beats the PANTS off of troops from old codex, but... is it like a GOOD UNIT on an absolute scale?
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Do all the Sisters have a special weapon, or just one model?
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regardless of squad size, one model can choose a heavy or a special AND another can choose a special AND the "sarge" (superior) can take a combi.
So yeah, you can have a 5 sister squad with e.g. flamer, heavy flamer, combi flamer.
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Some people just want to watch the World Burn.
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heres all the changes
Adepta Sororitas is now out, and the first opinions are out rolling all over the internet, and some brief''s on what has changed since the last publication from the White Dwarf Codex. So whats the verdict? Well for one, there are quite a few updates in it. So yes, this release changes quite a bit.
The Verdict? Its a mixed bag right now. I have heard and read many complaints (which is a given on forums), and of course some positives as well. Priests seem to be well received, and many units simply became cheaper. Of course Warlord Traits and Apocalypse rules are included into this release.
Well here is a quick run down on some of the changes that are being reported on Dakka Dakka. A huge thanks to one of our readers here that wrapped all this up into one single document. Its a little hard to read through, so take your time.
via pretre on Dakka Dakka
here is the link for the info as it is turning out.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/2070/554140.page
Neural Whips are S User, AP3, and get Shred against units with Ld 8 or less.
Blessed standard is 12" reroll morale fear and pinning.
Laud hailer is reroll AoF rolls within 12"
Simulacrum allows 2 AOF for one unit. One per phase. If you lose the Simulacrum from casualties, no more AOF for the rest of the battle.
Litanies of Faith. Bearer and unit automatically pass Aof or War Hymns.
Cloak of StA - Reroll all failed Armour and SoF invuls
Mantle of Ophelia - Eternal Warrior
Blade of Admonition - S+2 AP3, Master Crafter
Book of St Lucius - All friendly within 12" auto pass Fear or Regroup
Sacred Banner of the order - All friendly within 12" have +1 att and reroll failed morale, fear and pinning
Mace of Valaan - S+2 AP4, Melee, Chaos-Bane, Concussive, Master Crafter, Gets fleshbane and armourbane when wielder is within 6" of one or more models wityh the Daemon Special Rule
Eviscerator is on Melee list for 30. Power weapon for 15
Inferno Pistol on Ranged Weapon but is canoness only.
Combis are still 10
PP are still 15
Specials are 5 for Storm, 5 for Flamer, 10 for melta
Heavies are Bolter 10, Flamer 10, MM 10
Vehicles - SB 5, Dozer 5, EA 10, HK 10, Laud 10
Relics
BOSL - 5!!!
Litanies - 15
Cloak - 20
Mace - 25 (Priest only)
Mantle - 25
Blade of A - 30 (canoness only, replaces one weapon)
Rhino. 5 pt increase
Immo 60 points. 20 point decrease from MM version!!! Free mult-melta, not fast or anything like that. No fire points.
Celestians - 10 point decrease for squad, 1 decrease for each additional. 1 Special and 1 Special or heavy. Superior can take melee or ranged. Still means they have the wrong act of faith.
Repentia, 5 pt decrease for squad. 3 pts less for each additional. May take a dedicated transport.
Repentia do not have FNP naturally. but have SoF, fleet, rage, fearless.
Seraphim. 5 pts decrease for base squad. Hand flamers 10 point decrease per. Inferno pistols same. Does not come with superior. Sup costs 10 points. Sup can only buy chainsword, power sword, or plasma pistol.
Penitent Engine, 5 point decrease per. 3 attacks, no more D6+1. Rage, SoF, Unstoppable (ignore shaken and stunned). Still Open Topped.
Rets. 5 Point decrease. 10 pts for Vet. Simulacrum for 10. four get heavies. So more expensive by 25 for 4 HB in one squad.
5 Rets - 60
Simulacrum - 10
4 HB - 40
Vet - 10
120 Yuck. They got worse for 2 AOF per game.
Only one AoF per unit per phase. You can only use AoF if all models have AoF or War Hymns.
3 Missions: Recover the Relics (check objectives for holy relics to get bonus VP), Defend the Shrine (defend a center thing that gives all units with AOF reroll invuls and +1 leadership), Purge the Arch Heretic (Kill Points with bonus for enemy warlord)
Apocalypse:
Purge Squadron
Repentant Host
Angelic Host
Warlord Traits
1) Fear
2) 5+ Shield of Faith for Warlord's Unit
3) Reroll DTW
4) Rage
5) 12" Warlord Leadership bubble for Act of Faith or War Hymns
6) Stubborn
Army Special Rules:
Acts of Faith are Leadership Test now.
All units with Shield of Faith have Adamantium Will
If a Martyrdom unit dies, all units with Act of Faith special rule pass all Leadership tests until end of your next turn.
No mention of faith points. You can just do your act every turn for a leadership test.
Canoness AOF is Hatred in either Assault Phase.
AoF not limited to your turn.
Command Squad gets Fleet, Crusader, MTC AOF.
Priests can use War Hymns at beginning of Sub Phase for one effect
- Priest and unit Reroll all failed armor and invul until end of phase
- Smash special rule for priest
- Priest and unit gets reroll to wound
You can only use a unit's Act of Faith ONCE PER GAME. Not once per turn...
Celestine only stands up once now...
Jacobus no longer gives extra attacks... my epub doesn't even have the Kyrinov entry, starts it then it skips the rest.
Uriah gives out a 5+ to his unit and once per game his unit can reuse an AoF. Auto pass.
All models within 12" of Uriah have Fearless and Counter-attack.
Celestine 20 point increase
Uriah 10 point increase, drop in WS/BS and Ld by 1
EBC is 3 Arcos for 30, extra arcos are 10 each. DCA or Crusader cost 5 to replace. Rhino or Immo DT. Requires a Priest to take.
Kyrinov is nowhere to be seen.
Rhino. 5 pt increase
Immo 60 points. 20 point decrease from MM version!!! Free mult-melta, not fast or anything like that. No fire points.
Celestians - 10 point decrease for squad, 1 decrease for each additional. 1 Special and 1 Special or heavy. Superior can take melee or ranged. Still means they have the wrong act of faith.
Repentia, 5 pt decrease for squad. 3 pts less for each additional. May take a dedicated transport.
Repentia do not have FNP naturally. but have SoF, fleet, rage, fearless.
Seraphim. 5 pts decrease for base squad. Hand flamers 10 point decrease per. Inferno pistols same. Does not come with superior. Sup costs 10 points. Sup can only buy chainsword, power sword, or plasma pistol.
Dominions, 5 point decrease. 10 point vet sup. Simulacrum 10. Four dominions can take specials. No size requirement.
Exorcist, 10 point decrease. 13/11/10, 3 HP, Free Searchlight and Smoke
Penitent Engine, 5 point decrease per. 3 attacks, no more D6+1. Rage, SoF, Unstoppable (ignore shaken and stunned). Still Open Topped.
Rets. 5 Point decrease. 10 pts for Vet. Simulacrum for 10. four get heavies. So more expensive by 25 for 4 HB in one squad.
5 Rets - 60
Simulacrum - 10
4 HB - 40
Vet - 10
120 Yuck. They got worse for 2 AOF per game.
Only one AoF per unit per phase. You can only use AoF if all models have AoF or War Hymns.
3 Missions: Recover the Relics (check objectives for holy relics to get bonus VP), Defend the Shrine (defend a center thing that gives all units with AOF reroll invuls and +1 leadership), Purge the Arch Heretic (Kill Points with bonus for enemy warlord)
Apocalypse:
Purge Squadron
Repentant Host
Angelic Host
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At first glance, Sisters are the definitely the anti-meta for now. Scouting ignores cover meltaguns, spammable 10pt wargear that causes perils of the warp on hit, TL-MMs everywhere, giant fearless blobs that reroll armor saves (and practically everything else) in close combat... really digging the new "book" right now. ;D
Sure Celestine only gets up once now, but you can elect to not even bother and deny your opponent Slay the Warlord (it explicitly states she only counts for Slay the Warlord if you try and fail the faith test to bring her back, SO SILLY!)
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Again GW have failed miserably at making their rules clear.
We're going to need to decide how to interpret the condemnor boltgun. It rounds have the "psy-shock" special rule.
"Any unit with the Psyker, Brotherhood of Psykers, or Psychic Pilot special rules that is hit by a weapon with this special rule suffers a Perils of the Warp in addition to any other damage."
People are acting like if a Screamer Star (consisting of 9 non-psykers and 4 psykers) gets hit by a psi-shock weapon, each of the 4 psykers in the unit each are by a Perils in the Warp. I don't think it's at all clear that this is what happens.
If it DOES work this way, yes, sisters can auto-kill 600 points of Heralds of Tzeentch by hitting any model in the unit with 2 condemnor shots (shooting one sisters unit with an attached Priest at it should easily do the trick). Or auto-kill Tigerius by hitting any model in his unit with 3 shots. Or kill a whole unit of Warlocks by hititng once. Etc.
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Yeah, pretty easy to see where the confusion comes from. They don't specify which model has to take the PotW, so it's open for either every psyker to take that damage, every model in the unit with a psyker to take a PotW, or just one single PotW on one single model in the unit hit.
Brutal rules writing there, just awful.
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I actually think that by strict RAW, a unit that CONTAINS psykers does not have the "psyker" rule, so no POTW would be taken at all.
Tigurius by himself has the Psyker rule.
A unit of Scouts with Tigurius attached does not have the Psyker rule.
This also doesn't seem quite right, but it seems more right to me than forcing every psychic model in the unit to take POTW when ANY model (even a non-psyker) is hit by one of these psyshock rounds.
The "Fair" thing would be that you keep track of which model was actually hit by the bullet... but 40k doesn't work like that. Wounds are rolled against majority toughness and only then are allocated out to specific models in teh unit.
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I actually think that by strict RAW, a unit that CONTAINS psykers does not have the "psyker" rule, so no POTW would be taken at all.
You realize this is contrary to almost every other instance of a special rule? (e.g., hit and run, fearless, scout, hatred all come immediately to mind - I am sure there are more)
This is something that will require a Sam ruling right off the bat, but independent characters count as part of the unit they join. They have the psyker rule, thus the unit has the psyker rule in it, despite each model not having it.
I do agree models without the psyker, brotherhood of psyker, or psychic pilot rules do not suffer from perils, but I do see how it can be read that they would also take the wounds.
All of this also does not help warlocks at all though, as they certainly are a unit with the psyker rule, and thus are going to suffer perils when hit.
All in all it is clear as mud :) and not likely to receive an FAQ anytime soon :( I am horribly bias, but I certainly would not mind seeing rerollable 2++ saves disappearing from the meta.
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There's a FAQ already for this with the GK crossbow silver stake thing, can't see why this would be different. Though the GK weapon doesn't affect Psychic pilots, RAW.
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"Kyrinov is nowhere to be seen."
He's not in the new book. Although you can make a priest and call it him, give the priest the special mace and off you go.
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Sir Prometheus - thanks for that. Just looked it up. You know what that "Crossbow stake thing" from codex GK is called? "Condemnor Boltgun". Funny, I had never even heard of it.
Unfortunately for the sisters this will most likely by faq'd to work the same way as the Grey Knights weapon of the same name. Meaning, it adds a POTW onto an unsaved wound.
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You never heard of it because as soon as that faq came out it became effectively useless. And the mindstrike missiles work better, anyway. Still, not bad for messing up othe Gk, especially if it affected GK vehicles (doesn't currently).
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Sadly it appears that Sisters is GW's poorest effort to date in terms of producing rules that actually work.
The rules that describe how Faith works are very specific, which is good. But, they make it so that most of the Acts of Faith don't actually do anything (which is bad). For example, Sisters Repentia's act of faith is to give them a 3+ FNP in combat (good). But, they use it immediately before swinging in combat, which is at I1, after they're probably all dead because other people were swinging at a higher initiative (bad).
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I dunno, it says: "A unit with the Act of Faith special rule can attempt to use its Act of Faith immediately
before it acts during a phase; i.e. immediately before the unit moves in the Movement
phase, shoots (or runs) in the Shooting phase, or strikes blows in the Assault phase."
I don't think you have to interpret that as they actually use the power before their initiative step, you could easily interpret it to mean "before the fight sub-phase" -- especially since as you said doing it at Initiative 1.1 would lead to a nonsensical result. What about charging? Charging is acting. What they're really saying is that you don't have to use this power "at the beginning of the phase", like a lot of other powers, which would be before you are sure what is shooting or charging what.
Gw doesn't write rules that are meant to be read in a technical, key-word based manner, they just don't, they right in common english that is meant to be interpreted with common sense. We all wish it wasn't true but it is. Are we over this strict RAW thing, yet? Cuz in some ways GW seems to be getting less precise, not more.
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"A unit with the Act of Faith special rule can attempt to use its Act of Faith immediately
before it acts during a phase; i.e. immediately before the unit moves in the Movement
phase, shoots (or runs) in the Shooting phase, or strikes blows in the Assault phase."
So you are saying, these are just examples of when you can use Faith? You can use it immediately before you act in a phase, but also you can use it other times? If that's the case, why include this section at all?
It says "i.e.", (in other words), not "e.g." (for example). It's supposed to describe when you can use faith in each phase. Clearly they didn't mean to write useless rules, but they did.
This is in exactly the same category as the Tzeentch Chariot from Deamons codex that can't move and shoot and is therefore laughably useless. I agree, I wish people would just kinda rewrite these rules (Rules as they Should Be).
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Yes, you and I both read the oatmeal. http://theoatmeal.com/comics/ie (http://theoatmeal.com/comics/ie)
I'm saying that GW just isn't that precise, and that nitpicking things leads to bad results.
IF you insist upon being technical with it (not recommended) I am stating that their language does not necessarily mean "Immediately before those sisters blows are struck" i.e. Initiative 1, but rather before blows are struck, i.e. before the fight sub phase. (btw, the character leading them all strikes at a higher initiative, do you mean to suggest that the time at which the power is rolled changes if she dies?)
It basically comes down to how specific you want to be about "before". I don't think we have to be as specific as you're suggesting.
Now they coulda just said that instead, but they didn't, they thought common-sense english was plenty precise enough. The rule works when read casually, so let's not nit-pick it to be useless. Gw writes enough bad rules (that are still bad when read normally) on their own.
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OK... I'm trying to casualify my brain... bear with me...
So how about if the Sisters Repentia use their power before Overwatch, so that they can have the 3+ FNP against overwatch? One step further: what if they use Faith at the beginning of the assault phase before declaring a charge target, and decide who to charge based on whether they pass the faith test? If you don't take "before they swing" to mean "IMMEDIATELY before they swing", where do you draw the line?
I'm kinda just arguing for the sake of arguing, because it's fun to me to figure this stuff out...
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OK, again in the spirit of it......"before they strike blows". I wouldn't have that happen at INit 1, (or when the character swings) cuz as you pointed out, that would be dumb. It would be after assault moves, overwatch, any dangerous terrain tests, all that.
I;m basically going for just the most OBVIOUS, immediate interpretation. Remember, they're neither engineers nor programmers over there.
I think whether it was before or after challenges were declared would be open to question. Probably after. Just before the initiative order.
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I'm pretty sure the game is rapidly devolving into "whatever your opponent lets you get away with."
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I'm pretty sure the game is rapidly devolving into "whatever your opponent lets you get away with."
Well, it's getting to that point isn't it? GW seemed like they were trying to be more technical....and then they just stopped. Trying, that is. Now they almost seem worse than before, writing rules that would be fine for two drunk buddies in a basement....but that have almost no reasonable in un-ambiguous interpretation.
Grav weapons are a great example. Arguably the most important codex, brought up like 3 separate rules issues. No interest in clarifying. Haven't had a FAQ for like what, 4-5 months now?
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No interest in clarifying. Haven't had a FAQ for like what, 4-5 months now?
There were updates to the FAQ last month...they did not address much, but they were updated.
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I'm aware. The only thing they updated was servo arms, and it was an errata, not a FAQ. Didn't feel it counted.
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Yeah, someone needs to step in and do what GW doesn't do (make a tight, appealing, balance ruleset for competitive play). If anyone wants to give me a couple million or so, I'll retire and get it rolling.