Battleground Games Forum
Games Workshop => Warhammer 40K => Topic started by: King of the Elves on December 13, 2013, 02:53:56 AM
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Hey guys, just a general PSA, lets try to be nice to each other on the forums. Look at Chases avatar for christ's sake. These guys at BG offer this forum free of charge, and all they ask if that you be respectful. And so far, from what I have seen you guys haven't been doing that.
Enough with the 8 page flame wars, it's pointless, and after all, we are all just men playing with overpriced army dolls action figures.
And once again, thank you to Chase, Derek, and all the other staff that makes this all possible. Thank you
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Well said.
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y u QQ bout QQin?
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I tried to tell them make love not war and give D a chance...
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I have posted on my FB how tired I am of the constant complaining. Yeah guys in the end, its just a game with little plastic men. Are you making a living off it? No
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GIVE THE D A CHANCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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GIVE DA STEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE D a chance!
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I have posted on my FB how tired I am of the constant complaining. Yeah guys in the end, its just a game with little plastic men. Are you making a living off it? No
Yes well said, sometimes people have to get a little dose of reality and decide what's really important in life.
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Are you making a living off it? No
A living? No. A community? Yes.
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Are you making a living off it? No
A living? No. A community? Yes.
What if Lords of War officially appear in the main rulebook of the 7th edition of 40k? Then what? I know we aren't even half way through 6th yet but it's something everyone should prepare for if they intend on staying with the hobby. It seems to be the direction GW is taking
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Then I'll keep making events with my own rules? And I'll know if things work based on attendance and feedback.
Looking forward to more work for the same amount of fun.
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the game is about fun with plastic men and sometimes beer and pretzels, it was never meant to be taken so seriously.
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I have posted on my FB how tired I am of the constant complaining. Yeah guys in the end, its just a game with little plastic men. Are you making a living off it? No
Yes well said, sometimes people have to get a little dose of reality and decide what's really important in life.
To crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of the women.
That is what is important and good in life.
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I have posted on my FB how tired I am of the constant complaining. Yeah guys in the end, its just a game with little plastic men. Are you making a living off it? No
Yes well said, sometimes people have to get a little dose of reality and decide what's really important in life.
Passing classes, having a high GPA, and get accepted into a good college and not a community college. Yes, go high school.
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the game is about fun with plastic men and sometimes beer and pretzels, it was never meant to be taken so seriously.
Steve while I agree with this statement I have to point out that there is a large number of people who actually take the game seriously and that is the way they have fun. I think overall BG has it right. Do some events where everything is added and some catered to the more serious when it comes to Tournies.
Me as a avid GT goer take the game seriously and like the fact that the community is starting to tighten up and make the game what it should be.
But on that note I have no issues whatsoever in tournies that allow everything to each there own and BG has done a great job in giving both mindsets events to play in.
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I actually hope that some day, somehow (whether with this ruleset or a different ruleset), we can find a way to use superheavies in "Competitive 40k". The models are just too gorgeous and the excitement factor too high, and it will be good for the competitive scene if it allows the same set of models that are allowed in "casual 40k", if only because there is a better chance that casual player X will actually have an army that is legal to bring to a given tournament.
It should be possible somehow. From reading about warmahordes lately, it doesn't seem like there is anybody that says "Oh, Colossals aren't fun to play against" or that wants to run colossal-free tourneys. There could be different reasons for that; my guess is the difference in playtesting strategies adopted by GW vs Privateer.
Anyway, kind of pie in the sky at this point but just wanted to throw my hope out there for the internet to read....
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It should be possible somehow. From reading about warmahordes lately, it doesn't seem like there is anybody that says "Oh, Colossals aren't fun to play against" or that wants to run colossal-free tourneys. There could be different reasons for that; my guess is the difference in playtesting strategies adopted by GW vs Privateer.
Colossals were designed to be used in normal games of Warmachine. There is no comparison to using models created for Apocalypse in a "normal" game of 40k.
Colossals are a massive points cost and have to pre-deploy so you know where they are going to be. They also have problems with terrain because they have to clear the terrain completely or they cannot cross it.
They are not a good analogy to a Super heavy.
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Colossals are a massive points cost and have to pre-deploy so you know where they are going to be. They also have problems with terrain because they have to clear the terrain completely or they cannot cross it.
Well, just throwing it out there... if those types of rules help to effectively balance the greater power of the colossals, couldn't 40k superheavies have similar rules?
I know we're getting into "creating an entirely new ruleset" territory here, which is why it's pie-in-the-sky.
According to GW, there are no longer any models which are specifically intended for Apocalypse. Tournaments are talking about home-brewing new rules for their events, which ban certain parts of the "official" game (such as superheavies) in order to create an environment which they believe their attendees will enjoy more than "off the shelf GW rules".
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I have posted on my FB how tired I am of the constant complaining. Yeah guys in the end, its just a game with little plastic men. Are you making a living off it? No
Yes well said, sometimes people have to get a little dose of reality and decide what's really important in life.
To crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of the women.
That is what is important and good in life.
Thanks, Conan.
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Colossals are a massive points cost and have to pre-deploy so you know where they are going to be. They also have problems with terrain because they have to clear the terrain completely or they cannot cross it.
Well, just throwing it out there... if those types of rules help to effectively balance the greater power of the colossals, couldn't 40k superheavies have similar rules?
I know we're getting into "creating an entirely new ruleset" territory here, which is why it's pie-in-the-sky.
According to GW, there are no longer any models which are specifically intended for Apocalypse. Tournaments are talking about home-brewing new rules for their events, which ban certain parts of the "official" game (such as superheavies).
As I've said on other forums, I am all for a "Gladiator" type event using Escalation (which is pretty much what the Gladiator tourney at Adepticon was - 2500 points, 1 Super Heavy, FW allowed) and I had a great time.
Allowing this in GT play (and I'm talking about the 2 day, 6-8 round events we go to) is problematic because it goes from crafting a list that can attempt to take on everything, win with good tactics or lucky dice rolls to "Here are 4 5" templates that you can do nothing about that allow you no save of any kind" you can't prepare for.
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You can totally prepare for them, every codex has answers. The stronghold book provides fortifications that can be used to severely mitigate the impact strength d "alpha strikes" have on the game and I bet if you upped the points to 3k everything would work out.
Give D a chance! It's ok in a 3k!
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Whats not ok with 3k is playing the damn game for 3+ hours.......
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I think I think it works at 3 hours. Bringing super heavies or the kinds of units good at killing them eat up a bunch of points. you won't be up against a guy with 360 Orks for the most part, you'll be up against ~1800 of regular stuff and then a few cool big units that are good at things or like 1-2 EVAs.
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Yes but that is not logical to say the least. 3 hour games suck especially when your getting older like me and have back problems.. The idea is to shorten games not lengthen them. And shit I would put out there that there would be someone with 360 orcs.. At Daboyz I played against 180 not a fan to say the least.
When it comes to superheavies and escalation Chase has it right while some events will cater to it others will not. The arguments that is should be allowd and it shouldnt are an old hat. Both sides know their respectives stances so no amount of rebutle is going to change the opinions of those that dont want it (myself included).
So I got a better idea. Lets let it lie and move on to staring at the pretty pictures :)
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You can totally prepare for them, every codex has answers. The stronghold book provides fortifications that can be used to severely mitigate the impact strength d "alpha strikes" have on the game and I bet if you upped the points to 3k everything would work out.
Give D a chance! It's ok in a 3k!
That is purely not true. More importantly, it's not that you can't tailor to take one out, I just think you really shouldn't have to.
MOST importantly, D weapons just invalidate any sort of vaguely expensive unit. Not deathstars, just stuff like terminators, any MC, any GK, crisis suits, expensive vehicles....all useless.
It's the complete end of your army as you know it. We're talking normal, balanced, fluffy lists, anything that isn't horde of some form. Or drop podding.
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I think it's also useful to remember that "can this be beaten?" is not the same question as "is this good for the game?" As people play more test games with and against superheavies, it's more important to think about whether the game was FUN than who won or lost a particular game. For example, if you play against
1 Reaver
1 Chapter master
2 scouts
and turn 1 you drop and and kill the Reaver with 12 meltaguns, the game is already over. The team with no superheavy won. Was it a good game?
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I think it's also useful to remember that "can this be beaten?" is not the same question as "is this good for the game?" As people play more test games with and against superheavies, it's more important to think about whether the game was FUN than who won or lost a particular game. For example, if you play against
1 Reaver
1 Chapter master
2 scouts
and turn 1 you drop and and kill the Reaver with 12 meltaguns, the game is already over. The team with no superheavy won. Was it a good game?
That's why you play 3k. It lets somebody run the reaver and still have stuff, plus allows tons of answers for it. I picked 3k because it's enough for somebody to play the "all eggs in one basket" phantom titan strat and allow other people to bring counters.
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You don't have to play against/ with super heavies, D-Weapons, Escalation (and so on), if you do not want to. It is the choice of each player whether he or she wants to set up against an opponent using these models and rules.
As Grimwulfe said, people have chosen their camps (yay, nay, or indifferent)...if you don't like D-Weapons don't play games where they are in use, don't go to events that have them.
We know they change the game. We know they are powerful.
Why continue the debate?
The tournament community and vast amount of TOs will decide what they want to include, house rule what they think is best, and go from there. It will all get sorted.
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Ok, I'm officially sorry I argued in the "Don't argue" thread, btw.
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The tournament community and vast amount of TOs will decide what they want to include, house rule what they think is best, and go from there. It will all get sorted.
This
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Whats not ok with 3k is playing the damn game for 3+ hours.......
2000 pts of "normal" 40k already take 3ish hours anyway.. plus most of the criticism about LoW and Forts is that the games goes too quickly.
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If I see anything longer than two hours per round, that's more than my attention span can bear. Longer than that, I start getting cranky and tired over getting my ass kicked literally all day.
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You can totally prepare for them, every codex has answers. The stronghold book provides fortifications that can be used to severely mitigate the impact strength d "alpha strikes" have on the game and I bet if you upped the points to 3k everything would work out.
Give D a chance! It's ok in a 3k!
Not true. Orks do not have an answer. Orks have always had a problem popping land raiders, SH are harder to crack than a Land Raider.
A 3K game with Orks would take a very long time to play. That is going to be a ton of models...even if you throw in a Stompa.
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You can totally prepare for them, every codex has answers. The stronghold book provides fortifications that can be used to severely mitigate the impact strength d "alpha strikes" have on the game and I bet if you upped the points to 3k everything would work out.
Give D a chance! It's ok in a 3k!
Not true. Orks do not have an answer. Orks have always had a problem popping land raiders, SH are harder to crack than a SH.
A 3K game with Orks would take a very long time to play. That is going to be a ton of models...even if you throw in a Stompa.
At 3k you can throw in 2 stompas, lootas are great at anything not AV14, and most AV14 don't have D. Nob bikers or mega nobs jumping out of wagons of trukks will get a lot of work done. You also happened to pick the oldest codex currently available, I'm sure the new book will have even more stuff.
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Hey, if you want to pay 3k games with Apoc models, go ahead. That really should have no intersection with normal tournament play.
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Hey, if you want to pay 3k games with Apoc models, go ahead. That really should have no intersection with normal tournament play.
Looks to me like they were playing a 3k game with regular 40k models.;)
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????
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At 3k you can throw in 2 stompas, lootas are great at anything not AV14, and most AV14 don't have D. Nob bikers or mega nobs jumping out of wagons of trukks will get a lot of work done. You also happened to pick the oldest codex currently available, I'm sure the new book will have even more stuff.
Lootas are great at anything AV12 or worse, there are Okish at AV13. Nob bikers and Meganobs jumping out of wagons and trukks get a lot of work done...well, they did in 5th ed. Not so much in 6th.
Vaporizing said nob bikers and/or BW 1st turn with no chance to do anything is what I worry about. GW said they got rid of assaulting from reserves because they did not want someone throwing models down that never got a chance to do anything...then they throw in interceptor and now D weapons...
And just think of what you are saying. I am supposed to assault a unit that move 36 inches a turn and can remove two units a turn from the game. Well fortunately I can use lootas on it, 15 lootas average 30 shots per turn, which is 10 hits, which is generously 2 glances and 2 pins, which gets down to 1 glance and 1 pin after the holofield. Not so good...kind of the reason I stopped playing after the new eldar dex...just a different kind of screw job.
Oh, and I did not happen to pick the oldest codex. I picked the codex I have to play with.
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If I see anything longer than two hours per round, that's more than my attention span can bear. Longer than that, I start getting cranky and tired over getting my ass kicked literally all day.
Come on Ben, we need to play again. What is worse, your crappy die rolling or my crappy codex? :p
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It can move 36", sure, but if you've got guys in trukks, guys on bikes, guys in the Stompa, the Stompa itself, etc. it runs out of safe places to go pretty quick. Also, the Titan Holofield is vs hits, not glances/pens. I just don't think it's quite as dire as you're making it out to be. I'm not saying you "picked it on purpose" to complain or whatever, people play what they play, but older books will have trouble against newer things. I played the 3rd ed Necron codex all through 5th edition, I know all about it.
How are stick bombs or some of the weird ork guns? I don't know the book super well, but I know it's got a bunch of answers (a nob with a power klaw and a bunch of boys will keep it locked up for a while) and it definitely wasn't designed with 6th in mind. I'm sure when they get a new book, they'll have even more answers.
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It makes no difference it the holo-field is against glances/pens or hits -- point is you take 50%.
Anyway, we'll find out Thursday.
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My god can you guys please stop complaining?! That's what this thread is about. Chase or Derrek if you find this post to be to antagonizing feel free to take it down. I'm so sick of comin on the forums to read you guys complaining. Seriously deal with it or here's a thought, DONT use the damn super heavies! Is that so hard?!
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It makes no difference it the holo-field is against glances/pens or hits -- point is you take 50%.
Anyway, we'll find out Thursday.
If it makes no difference, why did you feel the need to post anything? Unless you want to play 3k and allow me to use super heavies as well, it won't really be comparable to the game they played.
I must be the best player in the world for one game against me to be the absolute decider of whether or not something is broken. 8)
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It makes no difference it the holo-field is against glances/pens or hits -- point is you take 50%.
Anyway, we'll find out Thursday.
If it makes no difference, why did you feel the need to post anything? Unless you want to play 3k and allow me to use super heavies as well, it won't really be comparable to the game they played.
You seem to be confused about what I said, or maybe I'm confused by you. You corrected somebody that "the Titan Holofield is vs hits, not glances/pens." I was simply saying it doesn't matter either way, it gets to the same point statistically.
Anyway, no, I don't want to play 3000. There's seems to me little difference between a 3000 point escalation game and apocalypse. Moreover, the point is to test D weapons in a "normal 40k".....no one plays 3k regularly, so I don't see how that's useful.
BTW, I will need a jet farseer, 9 guardian jetbikes (w/ 3 cannons) and the revenant for our game Thursday. That OK?
I must be the best player in the world for one game against me to be the absolute decider of whether or not something is broken. 8)
Well, keep in mind I never play eldar, so there's that. Also, if the game goes the way I expect to, we'll have time to run through it a couple times.
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Come on Ben, we need to play again. What is worse, your crappy die rolling or my crappy codex? :p
My dice, every time.
My god can you guys please stop complaining?! That's what this thread is about. Chase or Derrek if you find this post to be to antagonizing feel free to take it down. I'm so sick of comin on the forums to read you guys complaining. Seriously deal with it or here's a thought, DONT use the damn super heavies! Is that so hard?!
Oh, more complaints! ;)
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My god can you guys please stop complaining?! That's what this thread is about.
You are right. I am so sick of you complaining about other people complaining....
I just could not help it. :)
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I give up
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I plan to start playing 3k regularly with everything allowed, I'll try to keep a log of how the games go and how long they typically took.
I have 10 regular bikes without cannons and a harlequin jetbike you can use as a bikeseer, but if you want me to bring that stuff + my normal stuff + revenant, I'll need a ride to the store. Otherwise it's just my normal stuff + revenant.
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A ride from where? I'll likely part at Alewife, don't really want to move my car.
I have 3 eldar bikes, I can also proxy things with SM bikes. Or maybe Jared can bring some. Whatevs, I don't really think it will be a problem.
I think, generally, you will ahve a harder time convincing people that 3k is "normal" than you will Escalation, even.
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3k with escalation and strongholds in could become pretty normal. Have to play a bunch of games and see. :)