Battleground Games Forum
Games Workshop => Warhammer 40K => Topic started by: Chase on February 17, 2014, 01:30:01 PM
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(http://s27.postimg.org/q7g61n86r/Untitled.png) (http://postimage.org/)
$140.00 for the big guy. Not too bad.
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(http://s27.postimg.org/q7g61n86r/Untitled.png) (http://postimage.org/)
$140.00 for the big guy. Not too bad.
Nice! First time something new and big has come out that hasn't been top of the price foodfood chain
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No kidding!
If anyone is interested please let me know ASAP. There's a fair chance I'll be limited in the amount I can get.
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im interested in one of the Knight Books
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I would like one of the Knights, but I am going to wait on the codex to see what the Knight Army you can build around it would be.
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im interested in one of the Knight Books
Here's what GW had to say about that:
The Sentinels of Terra Limited Edition, the last item listed in green, is not offered with any discount. If someone wants it, please have them get it from the website.
Douche bags. :(
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im interested in one of the Knight Books
Here's what GW had to say about that:
The Sentinels of Terra Limited Edition, the last item listed in green, is not offered with any discount. If someone wants it, please have them get it from the website.
Douche bags. :(
Chase, iirc, those aren't the same books.
Imperial Knights is, allegedly, a codex. Sentinels of Terra is a supplement.
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I figured that was the book he was talking about. I think the Knight book is due in a few weeks.
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I think the Knight book is due in a few weeks.
Yes judging by the Dwarf release, GW will be doing army releases over the course of several weeks in a particular month.
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I was referring to the sentinels of terra hard back which looked like a codex
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It does, but apparently it's not.
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I find it ironic that only a few months ago when Escalation/Stronghold dropped, people were strongly against Titans/D weapons in regular games.. and now everyone is getting warm, fuzzy feelings over Imperial Knights lol. Now it appears that we have the 1st official 40k codex with D weapons, and as predicted.. I think it'll overall do more good for the game in the long run. Soon everything should be streamlined..
I feel the force is strong with 7th ed 8)
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I find it ironic that only a few months ago when Escalation/Stronghold dropped, people were strongly against Titans/D weapons in regular games.. and now everyone is getting warm, fuzzy feelings over Imperial Knights lol. Now it appears that we have the 1st official 40k codex with D weapons, and as predicted.. I think it'll overall do more good for the game in the long run. Soon everything should be streamlined..
I feel the force is strong with 7th ed 8)
Agreed
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I think the fact that the model is awesome, the price is reasonable, the D weapon is melee only, and it's only Armor 13 helps a lot.
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One of the older ones in the ware house is cheaper XD I guess I have to go through GW to get the book that contains rules for the knights
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Yeah Sentials of Terra is just a print version of this Ebook (http://www.blacklibrary.com/games-workshop-digital-editions/Sentinels-of-Terra.html) from black library
Rumor has it the codex will go up for Pre-order in march with no solid hint of what a real release date would be
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im interested in one of the Knight Books
Here's what GW had to say about that:
The Sentinels of Terra Limited Edition, the last item listed in green, is not offered with any discount. If someone wants it, please have them get it from the website.
Douche bags. :(
So as in, they want you, if you sell it, to sell it with no margin at all?
Look, GW, when we said we wanted you to embrace the internet, "selling everything through our website, all digital products for physical hardback price" was not what we meant.
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So as in, they want you, if you sell it, to sell it with no margin at all?
Look, GW, when we said we wanted you to embrace the internet, "selling everything through our website, all digital products for physical hardback price" was not what we meant.
At least we're getting higher quality products with more rules/fluff/backstory than their physical counterparts with hardly any ambiguity or spelling errors, right guys? ...guys?
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I've got high hopes / expectations for this titan model. It looks sweet and seems playable.
Also... If it hits you with its sword, YUR DED.
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It's very pretty. But no, it doesn't seem playable, or rather, in any way balanced.
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Mat your definition of playable may differ from someone else's. I would avoid making blanket statements. :)
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If I may...
A knight is not a titan. /sperg.
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I said this in December.. you can kick and scream all you want, but you can't stop the big D. Pandora's box is open and now it's closer more then ever.. sooner or later everyone is gonna get a taste. Don't like it? Don't matter.. big D isn't the sensitive type.
Once you go D there ain't no going back lol
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Gooble gobble one of us
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Someone on Dakka suggested using a lost planet 2 ptx-140 figure.
Which is apparently in the 7 inch range, taking a look at the picture it wouldn't be that hard of a conversion to do, best part is the figure is only $25 to $40 range. With a swap out of some of the dream forge arms you should be able to come in under both lines version of a knight.
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I said this in December.. you can kick and scream all you want, but you can't stop the big D. Pandora's box is open and now it's closer more then ever.. sooner or later everyone is gonna get a taste. Don't like it? Don't matter.. big D isn't the sensitive type.
Once you go D there ain't no going back lol
I do not think anyone was complaining about Str D melee weapons. I am pretty sure people were (and are) complaining about Str D ranged weapons.
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I do not think anyone was complaining about Str D melee weapons. I am pretty sure people were (and are) complaining about Str D ranged weapons.
Str D melee will rip apart any daemon or tyranid monsterous creature , so you might be the minority on that one. But hey, as long as it doesn't effect marines then who cares, right?
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I find it ironic that only a few months ago when Escalation/Stronghold dropped, people were strongly against Titans/D weapons in regular games.. and now everyone is getting warm, fuzzy feelings over Imperial Knights lol.
Hmm, I think it's rather that those people now have plans away from 40k.
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I do not think anyone was complaining about Str D melee weapons. I am pretty sure people were (and are) complaining about Str D ranged weapons.
Str D melee will rip apart any daemon or tyranid monsterous creature , so you might be the minority on that one. But hey, as long as it doesn't effect marines then who cares, right?
*Shrug* I play Orks, so I really never thought about how StrD Melee interacted with MCs...especially since Orks do not have an MC. I remember alot of the heartache was around the 900 pt uncatchable Eldar thing that threw out 2 str D blasts a turn and the cheap Necron that did Str D flame templates. I do not remember any heartburn over, say a Stompa, with a StrD melee weapon.
You are probably right that since it is imperial no body really cares.
And I still think GW is confused about what kind of game there are making models for. I personally do not think that SuperHeavies and StrD have a place in such a small scale game. Epic 40k is where all this stuff belongs...and the more I read about the old Epic system, the cooler it is. Too bad they killed it off.
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I find it ironic that only a few months ago when Escalation/Stronghold dropped, people were strongly against Titans/D weapons in regular games.. and now everyone is getting warm, fuzzy feelings over Imperial Knights lol.
Hmm, I think it's rather that those people now have plans away from 40k.
Was pretty excited about this the other day, the idea of making a Knight House Ad Mec army. Then I got to thinking about just playing 40k again...and kind of lost interest.
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I find it ironic that only a few months ago when Escalation/Stronghold dropped, people were strongly against Titans/D weapons in regular games.. and now everyone is getting warm, fuzzy feelings over Imperial Knights lol.
Hmm, I think it's rather that those people now have plans away from 40k.
Was pretty excited about this the other day, the idea of making a Knight House Ad Mec army. Then I got to thinking about just playing 40k again...and kind of lost interest.
lol, yea, kinda feel the same. I'll still play the marines I own but I think for the most part is on the other things. Luckily there is another miniature game being played on Thursday nights that has caught my interest.
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Mat your definition of playable may differ from someone else's. I would avoid making blanket statements. :)
"or, rather, balanced....."
Anyway, I do think melee str D is less of an issue than ranged str D, because it's obviously more avoidable.
But I just don't think superheavies are a good idea. This thing, it still moves 12" and is tough as hell to put down. It basically has the same threat ranges as am LR filled with assault termies, but 2x as durable, and doing basically infinite assault damage, for..........basically half the cost of the LR+termies.
I mean, it all looks very simple to me: Gw feels it has sold all the LRs and termies it is likely to (for instance). SO we get this thing. Which is very pretty. But it's on-purpose broken rules to sell models.
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Mat your definition of playable may differ from someone else's. I would avoid making blanket statements. :)
"or, rather, balanced....."
Anyway, I do think melee str D is less of an issue than ranged str D, because it's obviously more avoidable.
But I just don't think superheavies are a good idea. This thing, it still moves 12" and is tough as hell to put down. It basically has the same threat ranges as am LR filled with assault termies, but 2x as durable, and doing basically infinite assault damage, for..........basically half the cost of the LR+termies.
I mean, it all looks very simple to me: Gw feels it has sold all the LRs and termies it is likely to (for instance). SO we get this thing. Which is very pretty. But it's on-purpose broken rules to sell models.
6th edition has become an arms race
Riptides, wraithknights, relentless grav guns, heldrakes: these are the nukes every country has to have to remain a threat
D weapons: these are the biological weapons that no country wants to make legal for use in civilized war
What's next?
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What's next?
Next is Codex: Brad Club, which will have one entry and no fluff.
Brad Powers: 1000 points
WS:11 BS:11 S:2D+1 T:23 W:24 I:10 S:1+++
Special rules:
Awesomeness: When Brad Powers is deployed, your opponent dies. Because reasons.
Nuclear weapons? pssssht
Chemical weapons? kids stuff
Brad Club? Run for the hills
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*Shrug* I play Orks, so I really never thought about how StrD Melee interacted with MCs...especially since Orks do not have an MC. I remember alot of the heartache was around the 900 pt uncatchable Eldar thing that threw out 2 str D blasts a turn and the cheap Necron that did Str D flame templates. I do not remember any heartburn over, say a Stompa, with a StrD melee weapon.
You are probably right that since it is imperial no body really cares.
It's not just MCs.. Killa Khans, Dreadnaughts, and other walkers will get sliced like a lightsaber through a battledroid.
Anyway, I do think melee str D is less of an issue than ranged str D, because it's obviously more avoidable.
Not if its a bloodthrister or carnifex that actually NEEDs to get into combat to, um.. win.
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I didn't say it's a good thing, I feel quite the opposite, it's just less bad.
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It's not just MCs.. Killa Khans, Dreadnaughts, and other walkers will get sliced like a lightsaber through a battledroid.
Killa Kans and Dreads get shredded by incoming fire way before the get into melee, but I understand the point. Still do not like StrD, but melee D is more tolerable.
What's next?
Next is Codex: Brad Club, which will have one entry and no fluff.
Brad Powers: 1000 points
WS:11 BS:11 S:2D+1 T:23 W:24 I:10 S:1+++
Special rules:
Awesomeness: When Brad Powers is deployed, your opponent dies. Because reasons.
Nuclear weapons? pssssht
Chemical weapons? kids stuff
Brad Club? Run for the hills
Can I battle brother ally Brad into my super fluffy White Scars+Imperial Guard+Tau Firebase Formation+Cypher Data Slate+Inquisition Army?
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The legend of big D.. is a story that papa bloodthirsters tell baby bloodthirsters in order to get them to behave.
"If you don't settle down, THE D MAN GONNA GET YA BOY!!" hahaha
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Can I battle brother ally Brad into my super fluffy White Scars+Imperial Guard+Tau Firebase Formation+Cypher Data Slate+Inquisition Army?
You can, but when Brad hits the table, all your other models die.
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Is brad powers a scoring unit?
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No, but tabling always wins.
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And I instantly destroy all enemy and friendly non-Brad models, thus guaranteeing victory. Unless I deep-strike mishap. Fortunately, I don't scatter.
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So Potentially Grey Knights can stop Brad if he deep strikes. Grey Knights OP!
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I like it. I think that the rules are good but not broken good. The paladin and the errant versions have 6 hull points. That's not alot. It's a superheavy walker. So what... it can shoot at multiple targets. Riptides can do this too. Personally i think all vehicles should be doing this already. It does get Stomp which is a little much but fairly easy to avoid. Unstoppable Behemoth basically means it can't be one shot killed. Again so what.. A S-D ccw, powerful yes, broken no. Don't assault it with your bloodthirster assault it with a large squad of peons. It can only kill 3 a turn. The weapons we know about aren't overpowered. The shielding is good kinda like the eldar holo field on one facing which is nice since it doesn't get an armor save or invulnerable save.
I may have to get 2 when tax money comes.
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I like it. I think that the rules are good but not broken good. The paladin and the errant versions have 6 hull points. That's not alot. It's a superheavy walker. So what... it can shoot at multiple targets. Riptides can do this too. Personally i think all vehicles should be doing this already. It does get Stomp which is a little much but fairly easy to avoid. Unstoppable Behemoth basically means it can't be one shot killed. Again so what.. A S-D ccw, powerful yes, broken no. Don't assault it with your bloodthirster assault it with a large squad of peons. It can only kill 3 a turn. The weapons we know about aren't overpowered. The shielding is good kinda like the eldar holo field on one facing which is nice since it doesn't get an armor save or invulnerable save.
I may have to get 2 when tax money comes.
i agree with pretty much all your points fallen
6hp on a av13/12 chassis: big whup, you don't bubble wrap it, it's still getting meltad and all it takes is a explodes result and a lucky roll on the additional D3
shoot at multiple targets: it's got a gun that's actually good for something then it has heavy stubbers... oh noes!
D CC weapon: sure it MIGHT insta kill something, but theres so much STR10 in CC already nowadays if you get in CC with this thing your either going to lose it or get bogged down and taken out of the game
they are cool as hell there is no denying, but a Riptide is half the price and properly buffed and kitted out has better durability and "cheating" like twin linked and ignores cover
i'm still gonna run 3 at some event in the future, sure i won't win but ill have FUN not winning!!!
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Yea I don't think it's bad at all, I just like to add fuel to the fire lol
Genestealers, plaguebearers, scarabs, necron guass.. lots of things can kill it. Just don't feed it any monsters or walkers.
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Yea I don't think it's bad at all, I just like to add fuel to the fire lol
Genestealers, plaguebearers, scarabs, necron guass.. lots of things can kill it. Just don't feed it any monsters or walkers.
As far as I know, Genestealers and Plaguebearers can't hurt it at all? So I'm not sure what you're talking about. Scarabs could kill it sure, but I have doubts about any reaching one.
It basically has about the same raw firepower as a Riptide, and the same CC capacity as Wraithknight (but a little better) as it moves 12" and will kill basically whatever it swings at. But it's tougher and costs about 1.5 times what a wraithknight does.
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Don't assault it with your bloodthirster assault it with a large squad of peons. It can only kill 3 a turn
you'd be surprised how much damage stomp can do. i'm not saying it's going to turn a 30 man squad into paste in one round, but you also shouldn't expect that mob to hold up the knight all game.
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Entropic doesn't work on super heavy vehicles, so scarabs are out too.
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As far as I know, Genestealers and Plaguebearers can't hurt it at all? So I'm not sure what you're talking about. Scarabs could kill it sure, but I have doubts about any reaching one.
Genestealers have S4, I6 rending, and could bring it down with sheer volume of attacks. Plaguebearers have Plagueswords, which have the "Touch of Rust" special rule, which everyone seems to overlook.
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As far as I know, Genestealers and Plaguebearers can't hurt it at all? So I'm not sure what you're talking about. Scarabs could kill it sure, but I have doubts about any reaching one.
Genestealers have S4, I6 rending, and could bring it down with sheer volume of attacks. Plaguebearers have Plagueswords, which have the "Touch of Rust" special rule, which everyone seems to overlook.
These things are AV 13 front armor. Str 4 rending will just barely scratch the paint. I don't know how the touch of rus ability works, but I doubt it's a lot better. Don't forget it has a 4++ save on top of everything else.
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The save is only in the shooting phase.
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Good point
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Touch of rust means that any roll of 6 to pen is automatically a glance unless it would be a penetrating hit. It's basically gauss in melee for plaguebearers.
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These things are AV 13 front armor. Str 4 rending will just barely scratch the paint. I don't know how the touch of rus ability works, but I doubt it's a lot better.
I'm not saying its like a melta bomb lol, I'm just saying it is definately doable with sheer volume of attacks. Genestealers are good at that, and hey I've even killed a monolith with Plaguebearers before.. both units certainly can have there uses.
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disappointed it's not on a bigger base
(http://www.ephotobay.com/image/021-3.jpg)
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I know it is a flyer base, is that the same base as a tau riptide?
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I know it is a flyer base, is that the same base as a tau riptide?
Yup riptide, wraithknights, dreadknight, etc
Up for pre orders now. GW site is reporting it at 8 inches
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Also if you go to the "Armies" section of the GW website, Imperial Knights have their own section.. basically confirming that they are getting their own codex.
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Let me know if you want them, people.
I'll get one shippment before they're gone for a few weeks.
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The Knight House fluff is very cool too.. crafted in the Dark Age of Technology and pre-dates the Imperium, Space Marines, and even the Emperor.
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do the Knights also count as Lords of War?
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Yes.
Probably.
Sometimes.
But not when they're Allies.
??????????????
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This is just a guess, but I think they will be able to ally with everyone. That's why GW wrote in the Merc fluff.. and it would certainly silence any potential balance issues. Then the most obvious reason is to sell the most amount of models possible ;D
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Imperial knights allying with Tyranids or Necrons? That doesn't make any sense. Well, we'll see.
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Also, making a unit that can ally with anyone is just dumb. It's the ultimate in laziness when it comes to crafting your game environment.
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Really dude? Do I need to go get my Christian Bale rant link? Cuz I'll do it I swear.. ;D
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The Emperor knew he couldn't begin his crusade until he signed a treaty with the Machine Cult. It would be counter-productive for Terra and Mars to go to war with each other.
Chase I'd like to reserve a copy of the codex when it eventually goes pre-order. This bad boy will definitely be fun to read.
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Also, making a unit that can ally with anyone is just dumb. It's the ultimate in laziness when it comes to crafting your game environment.
I could see Necrons hiring one. The new necrons are diverse. Some are crazy.
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via Jes Bickham (who is the editor of White Dwarf) on GW Digital Facebook
Some clarification on the rules we presented in White Dwarf today for some folks here: the Imperial Knights don't occupy any force organisation slots, they are not Lords of War, they are an army unto themselves. Something we forgot to say is that all Imperial Knights are scoring units, and if you're playing 3-6 as a primary detachment, pick one as your Warlord.
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"Forgot to say" that they are a scoring unit eh? (mindblown).
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via Jes Bickham (who is the editor of White Dwarf) on GW Digital Facebook
Some clarification on the rules we presented in White Dwarf today for some folks here: the Imperial Knights don't occupy any force organisation slots, they are not Lords of War, they are an army unto themselves. Something we forgot to say is that all Imperial Knights are scoring units, and if you're playing 3-6 as a primary detachment, pick one as your Warlord.
I'm not surprised. I'm more interested in seeing who they can ally with.
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"Forgot to say" that they are a scoring unit eh? (mindblown).
Well, we know the rules governing the game are no longer important, particularly those that deal directly with winning the game, so it's easy to understand how it slipped their minds.
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via Jes Bickham (who is the editor of White Dwarf) on GW Digital Facebook
Some clarification on the rules we presented in White Dwarf today for some folks here: the Imperial Knights don't occupy any force organisation slots, they are not Lords of War, they are an army unto themselves. Something we forgot to say is that all Imperial Knights are scoring units, and if you're playing 3-6 as a primary detachment, pick one as your Warlord.
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"Forgot to say" that they are a scoring unit eh? (mindblown).
OK. I don't see how rules like that can fit into a competitive game system, at all.
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via Jes Bickham (who is the editor of White Dwarf) on GW Digital Facebook
Some clarification on the rules we presented in White Dwarf today for some folks here: the Imperial Knights don't occupy any force organisation slots, they are not Lords of War, they are an army unto themselves. Something we forgot to say is that all Imperial Knights are scoring units, and if you're playing 3-6 as a primary detachment, pick one as your Warlord.
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"Forgot to say" that they are a scoring unit eh? (mindblown).
OK. I don't see how rules like that can fit into a competitive game system, at all.
I don't think 40k is a competitive game system any more. That boat has sailed long ago.
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via Jes Bickham (who is the editor of White Dwarf) on GW Digital Facebook
Some clarification on the rules we presented in White Dwarf today for some folks here: the Imperial Knights don't occupy any force organisation slots, they are not Lords of War, they are an army unto themselves. Something we forgot to say is that all Imperial Knights are scoring units, and if you're playing 3-6 as a primary detachment, pick one as your Warlord.
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"Forgot to say" that they are a scoring unit eh? (mindblown).
OK. I don't see how rules like that can fit into a competitive game system, at all.
I don't think 40k is a competitive game system any more. That boat has sailed long ago.
STEVE D DROPPIN KNOWLEDGE BOMBS ALL OVER THE PLACE!!
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Actually, this is like a real question.
What CAN profitably assault the knight other than another superheavy? Talking something equal or less than its points...
I think expensive mc's and non-superheavy walkers and characters are out, b/c of the fact that D weapons kill anything in 1 hit with no saves.
Hordes to tarpit are also out. Cluster in a large unit of 25mm bases around a flyer base, and then figure out how many he will hit with his d3+1 small blast templates for the stomp, and you'll see what I mean.
Scarabs are out due to the superheavy rules...
I think 7 tomb spyders (350 pts) could usually take him, if they could somehow all charge him at once... tough to make it really happen since he moves 12" as if he were a jump walker. Also, his guns and stuff.
Someone said Genestealers? let's say you somehow charged him with 20 of them (280 points)... 60 attacks, 40 hits, 7 rends or so, equating to 2 hull points... then he attacks & stomps... not gonna do it.
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Does mindshackle scarabs work on superheavies? haha....
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Have you even read the rules for super heavies? I don't think most armies have trouble killing 6 av13 hull points. Nobody said you have to assault it, and plenty of things will go before it that can wreck it. The wounds from D don't carry over to multiple models, at best it can kill 3 models a turn in close combat (which at 375 points it probably should be able to).
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Have you even read the rules for super heavies? I don't think most armies have trouble killing 6 av13 hull points. Nobody said you have to assault it, and plenty of things will go before it that can wreck it.
For example?
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Have you even read the rules for super heavies? I don't think most armies have trouble killing 6 av13 hull points. Nobody said you have to assault it, and plenty of things will go before it that can wreck it. The wounds from D don't carry over to multiple models, at best it can kill 3 models a turn in close combat (which at 375 points it probably should be able to).
Yeah, I only asked about assault though. I know that assaulting the Knight isn't the only way to interact with it, I'm just trying to figure if it there's anything that wants to do that.
Onto your assertions about its vulnerability in assault: yes - gimme an example of something (or things) costing around the same points that will go before it and wreck it?
One other point: it can kill way more than 3 models per turn. If it's totally surrounded by like a horde of Orks the stomps will probably kill about 15 more of them.
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Wych cults haywire will eat it alive. MC can vectorstrike
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The plague bearers with touch of rust might work? Not betting on it. Yeah, mass haywire grenades would work.
@Rob No....I don't think killing 6 hull points of AV 13 is that easy, judging by how infrequently people kill my hammerheads. And 6 hull points of super heavy is much harder to kill than 6 hull points of regular vehicle. And it doesn't sound like we're talking about 6, it sounds like we're talking about 18 or 36.
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Does Strength D ignore Invulnerable Saves?
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Strength D does ignore invulnerables as I recall. Every army has answers for a knight. Marines have TH SS termies and assult marines with Melta Bombs, gaurd have suicide melta vet units, Chaos Marines, 2 Melta Guns in one squad, Deamons im not familiar enough with, Tyranids have all sorts of nasty claw upgrades, Necrons can glance it to death or use a C'Tan, Orks have nobs with powa clawz and I think they to have Melta Bombs, Sisters Heart Melta Weapons, Tau..offensive amount of Rail Fire and Marker Light spam, Eldar have bright Lances and Wraith Knights, Dark Eldar have Dark Lances and Hay wire Grenade Wytches, Grey Knightd have the babby walker and also TH SS termies. I think I covered every one Im not counting all the other marine codecies. Point is every army has an answer to a Knight one way or another.
Ide like to know who can ally with the knights?
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Does Strength D ignore Invulnerable Saves?
Yes.
Actually, this is like a real question.
What CAN profitably assault the knight other than another superheavy? Talking something equal or less than its points...
I think expensive mc's and non-superheavy walkers and characters are out, b/c of the fact that D weapons kill anything in 1 hit with no saves.
Hordes to tarpit are also out. Cluster in a large unit of 25mm bases around a flyer base, and then figure out how many he will hit with his d3+1 small blast templates for the stomp, and you'll see what I mean.
Scarabs are out due to the superheavy rules...
I think 7 tomb spyders (350 pts) could usually take him, if they could somehow all charge him at once... tough to make it really happen since he moves 12" as if he were a jump walker. Also, his guns and stuff.
Someone said Genestealers? let's say you somehow charged him with 20 of them (280 points)... 60 attacks, 40 hits, 7 rends or so, equating to 2 hull points... then he attacks & stomps... not gonna do it.
Power fist wielding Death Company work pretty well. just ask Maddoc what happened to his Stompa.
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Have you even read the rules for super heavies? I don't think most armies have trouble killing 6 av13 hull points. Nobody said you have to assault it, and plenty of things will go before it that can wreck it.
For example?
Any demon Prince. A Wraithknight. Not sure how space marines work, but meltabombs will definitely bring it down if you can get a few in a squad. Keep in mind it has to shoot you to be able to assault you and will strike at I1if it goes through terrain.
Matt: How many points is a hammerhead vs a knight? I suspect they're a fair amount cheaper, you'd probably have close to 3 skyrays for 1 knight which would be 9 hull points instead of 6, so there's definitely an opportunity cost to running knights. Why does 6 hull points mean 18 or 36? Why would you play against someone running 1 or 3 or 6 of these when you're not a fan of lords of war or void shield generators which I'd say the imperial knights are definitely designed to interact with?
You guys seem to be forgetting a whole addition to the rules that came out giving everybody the ability to take some D or super heavies and suggest we should probably play more than 1850 point games to fit more cool toys in.
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Any demon Prince. A Wraithknight. Not sure how space marines work, but meltabombs will definitely bring it down if you can get a few in a squad. Keep in mind it has to shoot you to be able to assault you and will strike at I1if it goes through terrain.
Even a bloodthirster will have to get reallly lucky to take one out. A wraithknight will do maybe 1 or 2 hull points to it in assault.
Meltabombs will be hitting on 6's, will strike AFTER the knight, and even if they get a wrecked result it will only do a d3 hullpoints. If you have 15 guys that somehow all have meltabombs, you MIGHT kill it. But is there any army that can do that?
Matt: How many points is a hammerhead vs a knight? I suspect they're a fair amount cheaper, you'd probably have close to 3 skyrays for 1 knight which would be 9 hull points instead of 6, so there's definitely an opportunity cost to running knights. Why does 6 hull points mean 18 or 36? Why would you play against someone running 1 or 3 or 6 of these when you're not a fan of lords of war or void shield generators which I'd say the imperial knights are definitely designed to interact with?
You guys seem to be forgetting a whole addition to the rules that came out giving everybody the ability to take some D or super heavies and suggest we should probably play more than 1850 point games to fit more cool toys in.
Yeah, this is kinda where I was eventually going with this... Other superheavies seem a fine answer to Knights. Not so sure Knights are going to prove fun for everyone if they're the only superheavies allowed.
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Wych cults haywire will eat it alive. MC can vectorstrike
Hmm... wych cults... those grenades still need a 6 to hit a walker and get a single attack right? So, to do 6 hull points of damage you'd need on average 36 wyches. I guess that is not much more expensive than the Knight actually :) I guess that counts, even if I can't see it happening in an actual game (they are slower than the Knight).
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Power fist wielding Death Company work pretty well. just ask Maddoc what happened to his Stompa.
Hmm, yeah if you had about 6 or 7 of those guys.... that would work.
Actually... haha.... that made me think of something that is a BONA FIDE KNIGHT KILLER.
Sisters repentia!
They will get 3 str 6 armourbane attacks each on the charge!
So, 10 (costing only about 160 or so) charge in, let's say the knight kills 2, the remaining 8 get 24 attacks, hitting 12 times.... should usually get 7 damage results, killing it comfortably!
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I log into the forums and see that people are actually offering constructive solutions, that's nice to see for a change. Thanks for the input guys 8)
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Wych cults haywire will eat it alive. MC can vectorstrike
Hmm... wych cults... those grenades still need a 6 to hit a walker and get a single attack right? So, to do 6 hull points of damage you'd need on average 36 wyches. I guess that is not much more expensive than the Knight actually :) I guess that counts, even if I can't see it happening in an actual game (they are slower than the Knight).
Grenades are now treated as a Melee Weapon against Vehicles/Monstrous Creatures so you use your WS to determine what you need to roll to hit. You only get 1 Grenade per a model though. So at least a 4+ in most cases to hit with a Grenade on a Knight.
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Any demon Prince. A Wraithknight. Not sure how space marines work, but meltabombs will definitely bring it down if you can get a few in a squad. Keep in mind it has to shoot you to be able to assault you and will strike at I1if it goes through terrain.
Even a bloodthirster will have to get reallly lucky to take one out. A wraithknight will do maybe 1 or 2 hull points to it in assault.
Meltabombs will be hitting on 6's, will strike AFTER the knight, and even if they get a wrecked result it will only do a d3 hullpoints. If you have 15 guys that somehow all have meltabombs, you MIGHT kill it. But is there any army that can do that?
Grenades hit on WS like everything else in 6th ed. Why would meltabombs go at i1? A wraithknight has a pretty good shot at doing real damage to it, any demon prince with a demon weapon or warp speed has an excellent chance at killing it.
Why do you think models that cost 6 points or 15 or 200 should easily kill a 375 point model? 10 Sternguard in a drop pod with combi meltas in the rear kill this thing top of turn 1 all day, if that's all you care about.
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Grenades hit on WS like everything else in 6th ed. Why would meltabombs go at i1? A wraithknight has a pretty good shot at doing real damage to it, any demon prince with a demon weapon or warp speed has an excellent chance at killing it.
Why do you think models that cost 6 points or 15 or 200 should easily kill a 375 point model?
I don't think that. My question was, what is there that costs around the same or cheaper than a Wraithknight that will want to charge it?
My bad about the grenades. I was still thinking of the 5th edition rules... I guess I haven't done much charging of walkers lately!
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Meltabombs hit at Initiative 1 because they have the unwieldy rule.
No, TH/SS termies won't do anything to it. Str D ignores invo saves, so it's no different than with normal termies, and I think Stomp does too. They don't have nearly enough attacks at Str 8 to kill it, they might take a few hull points off is all.
Wraith knights would do better than any other MC, but still would still be unlikely to kill it, on average. The imperial knight kill the Wraith knight pretty easily, though. I do not think there is any MC can really kill it before it promptly dies.
There's no real way to catch it with EMP grenade carrying FW, or really anything on the eldar side that has to come out of an enclosed transport. SO while haywire's are a good answer I think the only unit that really can do it is wyches out of a raider. Everything else will die first. That goes for sister repentia, too. It would be great if you could put them in a LR but you can't. (also, the knight with the melta blast can kill LRs pretty easy)
No, every army does not have an answer to superheavies.
Rob, 2 hammerheads are cheaper than an imperial knight, but what does that matter? I'm saying even the hammerheads are plenty hard to kill, the knight will be even tougher, and it doesn't get stunned or immobilized. I said 18 or 36 because you can take 3 or 6 of them.
Super-heavies are a bad concept outside of apocalypse. 3-6 of them is absolutely ridiculous. Just because GW wants to sell everybody Imperial Knights is not a good reason to wreck the game over it. (more than it already is)
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a brood of carnifexes, at 360 (almost exactly the same cost) will get 3d3 s9 hammer or wrath hits and with four wounds, will take two d hits to kill on average, so they can reasonably expect to kill a knight on the charge.
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Meltabombs hit at Initiative 1 because they have the unwieldy rule.
No, TH/SS termies won't do anything to it. Str D ignores invo saves, so it's no different than with normal termies, and I think Stomp does too. They don't have nearly enough attacks at Str 8 to kill it, they might take a few hull points off is all.
Wraith knights would do better than any other MC, but still would still be unlikely to kill it, on average. The imperial knight kill the Wraith knight pretty easily, though. I do not think there is any MC can really kill it before it promptly dies.
There's no real way to catch it with EMP grenade carrying FW, or really anything on the eldar side that has to come out of an enclosed transport. SO while haywire's are a good answer I think the only unit that really can do it is wyches out of a raider. Everything else will die first. That goes for sister repentia, too. It would be great if you could put them in a LR but you can't. (also, the knight with the melta blast can kill LRs pretty easy)
No, every army does not have an answer to superheavies.
Rob, 2 hammerheads are cheaper than an imperial knight, but what does that matter? I'm saying even the hammerheads are plenty hard to kill, the knight will be even tougher, and it doesn't get stunned or immobilized. I said 18 or 36 because you can take 3 or 6 of them.
Super-heavies are a bad concept outside of apocalypse. 3-6 of them is absolutely ridiculous. Just because GW wants to sell everybody Imperial Knights is not a good reason to wreck the game over it. (more than it already is)
No stomp does not ignore invuls, also a TT at Str 8 cant damage armor 13? did GW change how math works? Read the rules on a knight, it only has a limited number of attacks at Str D. Which cant kill every model that can potentially trash it.
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Don't be derisive, and do some math yourself. 10 attacks (assuming 5 are still alive.....they will not) at str 8 are not going to kill an AV 13 super heavy. Nor will 20.
And yes, Stomp DOES ignore invuls, at least on a 6. Otherwise 2-5 it's an Ap4 hit. So the invo is meaningless either way.
Man, if you're going to sneer at me, at least be correct.
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my bad. I thought Stomp does not ignore. Besides a TH is not the only thing available plenty of stuff like Meltas as I previously stated. I shall continue sneering.
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First of all, not everyone has access to drop pods full of meltas.
Second, math assignment for you: figure out how many meltas it takes to drop a 6 hull point super-heavy. Don't forget the 4+ invo.
Keep in mind we could see 3-6 of these things. Is it reasonable to expect every marine player to stuff every drop pod full melta toting elites (sternguard, wolf guard, whatever). What are the non-marines going to do?
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I'm 98% sure they're going to be legal in every event we host.
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That would be very bad.
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What makes knight titans ok, but lords of war not ok?
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What are the non-marines going to do?
They are going to do what everyone who wasn't a Space Wolf player did when the Space Wolf codex came out.
They are going to do what everyone who wasn't a Grey Knight player did when the Grey Knight codex came out.
They are going to do what everyone who wasn't a Necron player did when the Necron codex came out.
They are going to do what everyone who wasn't a Tau player did when the Tau codex came out.
They are going to do what everyone who wasn't a new Tau and new Eldar player did when the Taudar codex came out.
Codex creep has been around for a long time and people adapted. Is it worse now? I'm not so sure, I just think some people have different thresholds for it.
EDIT:
For once this isn't a troll but an actual question. I've been reading opinions around the 'net and the statement was made with even more historic stand point citing things like siren princes and old 3.5 iron warriors and other such.
Historically, how much does this actually vary from GW shifting power amounts and how much is just personal taste for it?
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This is all true, it just seems worse now. In more competitive circles, the comment has been made that back in the day, good players could play whatever they wanted and still win -- it was just a little easier with whatever codex was in vogue. That doesn't seem to be true anymore.
These super heavies also a whole new category of stuff.....it's like they released flyers, but there was no skyfire. Worse, strength D just invalidates entire selections of more elite models/units.
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a brood of carnifexes, at 360 (almost exactly the same cost) will get 3d3 s9 hammer or wrath hits and with four wounds, will take two d hits to kill on average, so they can reasonably expect to kill a knight on the charge.
Nice! That hammer of wrath action would totally help as a knight charge deterrent.
Note: Hammer of Wrath means the models have to all actually make it to B2B on the charge, so I can sometimes see it being difficult to get max HoWage. But the Knight being on a huge base helps
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Please note, the following statement is intended as a joke, and does not necessarily represent the views or opinions of Brad Powers, Brad Club (TM, Patent Pending), or Bradcorp. Sensitive viewers, get over it.
What will the IG do? Bring one, or shoot it until it dies.
What will the Tyranids do? Munch on it until it dies.
What will the Tau do? F*** the Tau, they have copious cheesy bulls***.
What will the Eldar do? F*** the Eldar, the have copious cheesy bulls***.
What will the Dark Eldar do? Lance the s*** out of it. Like they always do.
What will the Necrons do? Gauss the s*** out of it. Like they always do.
What will the Orks do? WAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH.
What will the players do? Piss and moan until the next cheese is dropped. Like they always do.
Please note, the following statement is not intended as a joke, and represents the official opinion (which is subject to change AT A WHIM) of Brad Powers, but not Brad Club (TM, Patent Pending) or Bradclub. Sensitive viewers, get over it (this may become the new prefix for everything I post.....).
Frankly, at some point the community needs to decide whether to unleash the silly or not. Right now, we're teetering on the edge of insanity. Do we allow Escalation Lords of War? Do we allow Whatever the fortification one is? Do we allow supplements that are printed? Do we allow supplements that are digital? Do we allow Forge World? Do we allow Warhammer 30k?
I feel that if we allow knight titans, it is only logical that we allow other Lords of War, as it will allow some books to compete on the superheavy front that otherwise would not. If we allow knight titans, I feel it is only logical to allow Forge World, as it allows some books to compete on the superheavy front that otherwise could not, but more importantly because it allows players to use interesting fun stuff.
You can either look at this as a massive clusterf***, or as an opportunity to try out new models and tactics, and enjoy your opponents doing the same thing. I prefer, at least in the short term, to do the latter. I agree that the community needs to sit down and decide, in the long term, whether we want some or all of these new, weird things...
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I agree with Brad
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GW has updated there site. The knight is only 6" tall
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Well, that $140 price tag seems a little less reasonable.
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GW has updated there site. The knight is only 6" tall
I hope someone was holding a paper upside down when they did the original web posting.
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I guess they don't "playtest" their blog posts either.
I can envision how this went down... guy in suit says to intern, "Oh hey... I know I told you to say they were 8 inches tall, that's about right but maybe we should go measure one? I think there's some law about saying something is bigger than it is in an ad..."
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Soo....
Talked to the GW rep just now.
Knight Codex only has the Knights in it.
A Knight detachment IS NOT an allied detachment. A legal army can have a primary, allied, and knight detachment.
Orks, Tyranids, Deamons, and Necrons can't take them.
He thinks they're only scoring if they're in the primary detachment.
Long talk about how the community is responding to the games direction and the Knights.
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GW has updated there site. The knight is only 6" tall
I hope someone was holding a paper upside down when they did the original web posting.
I lol'd.
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A legal army can have a primary, allied, and knight detachment.
and Inquisition, and a Tau firebase, and cypher, and an AV 15 building with a D weapon.
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In a certain light, that's sort of awesome.
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Well, it obviously depends upon what sort of game you want to play. Problem is, I think there's a large set of casual gamers who think they want "all the crazy", but when they face some insane combo, or just a whole bunch of scoring super-walkers backed up by some riptides, are not going to have a good time.
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A legal army can have a primary, allied, and knight detachment.
and Inquisition, and a Tau firebase, and cypher, and an AV 15 building with a D weapon.
Deep fried in a birthday cake
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Deep fried in a birthday cake
With a (sadly deep fried) stripper inside.
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Soo....
Talked to the GW rep just now.
Long talk about how the community is responding to the games direction and the Knights.
Hints? Clues? Details?
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I want a copy of the codex but you said its only available online?
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Codex will be in print. The other LE book they want people to order online.
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Is the codex with only knights in it $50? and hardback?
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Soo....
Talked to the GW rep just now.
Knight Codex only has the Knights in it.
A Knight detachment IS NOT an allied detachment. A legal army can have a primary, allied, and knight detachment.
Orks, Tyranids, Deamons, and Necrons can't take them.
He thinks they're only scoring if they're in the primary detachment.
Long talk about how the community is responding to the games direction and the Knights.
They've finally done it, eh? A whole codex with one unit.
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Knight Codex only has the Knights in it.
*Sigh* That is....disappointing. Is it a 50$ codex for 1 $140 model. Damn for a model company they sure charge a great deal for bad rules.
Orks, Tyranids, Deamons, and Necrons can't take them.
*Double Sigh* There goes my dreams of a looted Knight...That was going to be so bad ass.
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Very disappointing that the GW site is now calling it 6 inches tall, 1/2 an inch taller and twice the price of a Riptide really?
looking forward to seeing how tall the damn thing actually is once the kit is out but i guess my Leviathans will just be bigger than anticipated next to a GW Knight
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Cpdex will be 40 or 41... Let me find the email...
Yeah... $41.00
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A legal army can have a primary, allied, and knight detachment.
and Inquisition, and a Tau firebase, and cypher, and an AV 15 building with a D weapon.
Deep fried in a birthday cake
TACO TOWWWWWWWN!
http://screen.yahoo.com/taco-town-000000333.html
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Chase can you have a copy of the codex for me in Abington to buy?
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It comes out next week.
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Knight Codex only has the Knights in it.
*Sigh* That is....disappointing. Is it a 50$ codex for 1 $140 model. Damn for a model company they sure charge a great deal for bad rules.
Hah!
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I want a copy of the codex but you said its only available online?
It is a physical codex, it it *supposed* to go up for preorder either this Saturday or next.
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Well, it obviously depends upon what sort of game you want to play. Problem is, I think there's a large set of casual gamers who think they want "all the crazy", but when they face some insane combo, or just a whole bunch of scoring super-walkers backed up by some riptides, are not going to have a good time.
You do realize that 6 of knights is 2250pts and $840. For 2k and $500. I could bring an entire armored company of 10 multi melta toting vanquishers that would ruin those knights. The knights aren't that impressive for their points specially above 2k where most armies can bring all kinds of silly sh!t. If it were 6 real superheavies I could see your point.
Personally my biggest problem with them is their cost. 140 for a kit that only makes 2 variants. Wtf. A baneblade kit costs the same for a bigger, better kit that makes 8 different tanks is a much better deal.
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Chase, could you ask your sales rep how big his boat is?
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Well, it obviously depends upon what sort of game you want to play. Problem is, I think there's a large set of casual gamers who think they want "all the crazy", but when they face some insane combo, or just a whole bunch of scoring super-walkers backed up by some riptides, are not going to have a good time.
You do realize that 6 of knights is 2250pts and $840. For 2k and $500. I could bring an entire armored company of 10 multi melta toting vanquishers that would ruin those knights. The knights aren't that impressive for their points specially above 2k where most armies can bring all kinds of silly sh!t. If it were 6 real superheavies I could see your point.
Personally my biggest problem with them is their cost. 140 for a kit that only makes 2 variants. Wtf. A baneblade kit costs the same for a bigger, better kit that makes 8 different tanks is a much better deal.
Real super-heavies? They seem super heavy enough to me.
Anyway, it's not that there are no counters. You say you could take 10 vanquishers, is that a good army, otherwise? I suspect not, or someone would do it.
You can also take whole army of drop pods with melta guns, but most people don't want to.
You see, the real problem here is the death of the "all-comers" army. I mean this is already a problem, but it gets worse with each of these crazy releases. Because it's not like you need ONE drop pod full of meltas to deal with these super heavies. That would be annoying enough, but the truth is you need like 2 or 3, or whatever your equivalent is. SOme armies just don't have decent counters. ANd if you take that specialized heavy vehicle killing hardware, you're less able to deal with whatever else, like flyers.
So the whole thing becomes matchup dependent, not about how good player you are. WHich again, has always been a problem, but it just gets worse, and worse, and worse.
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Well, it obviously depends upon what sort of game you want to play. Problem is, I think there's a large set of casual gamers who think they want "all the crazy", but when they face some insane combo, or just a whole bunch of scoring super-walkers backed up by some riptides, are not going to have a good time.
You do realize that 6 of knights is 2250pts and $840. For 2k and $500. I could bring an entire armored company of 10 multi melta toting vanquishers that would ruin those knights. The knights aren't that impressive for their points specially above 2k where most armies can bring all kinds of silly sh!t. If it were 6 real superheavies I could see your point.
Personally my biggest problem with them is their cost. 140 for a kit that only makes 2 variants. Wtf. A baneblade kit costs the same for a bigger, better kit that makes 8 different tanks is a much better deal.
Real super-heavies? They seem super heavy enough to me.
it's not a stormblade, which is only 75pts more. It doesnt have the firepower nor survivability of true superheavy. Its a superheavy to make it worth spending 375pts and $140 on it. It's a few cool rules and some survivability. It good, not game breaking good . Two battle cannon shots or a large blast melta shot and some heavy stubbers is not lords of war worthy firepower.
Anyway, it's not that there are no counters. You say you could take 10 vanquishers, is that a good army, otherwise? I suspect not, or someone would do it.
if I had enough Russes I would. A wall of AV 14 spitting out ap1& 2 death. Pure awesome sauce. :) unfortunately I'm 7 Russes short so I won't be running my armored company any time soon.
You can also take whole army of drop pods with melta guns, but most people don't want to.
You see, the real problem here is the death of the "all-comers" army. I mean this is already a problem, but it gets worse with each of these crazy releases. Because it's not like you need ONE drop pod full of meltas to deal with these super heavies. That would be annoying enough, but the truth is you need like 2 or 3, or whatever your equivalent is. SOme armies just don't have decent counters. ANd if you take that specialized heavy vehicle killing hardware, you're less able to deal with whatever else, like flyers.
I see it as more of an evolution of the game. Really not much different than 5th to 6th edition transition. I do understand your frustration though. I'm not a huge fan of the current state of the game.
So the whole thing becomes matchup dependent, not about how good player you are. WHich again, has always been a problem, but it just gets worse, and worse, and worse.
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I think you'll find it's actually tougher than a stormblade, once you figure in the 4+ invo to shooting. Sure, the lack of a ranged D weapon makes it less destructive, but it's still plenty killy.
I'm glad you're a fan of russes (I am too), but generally speaking, most lists that gear themselves to deal with something like this will be weaker against normal stuff.
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I just think it smacks of desparation on GW's part... do you think there is anything about this model (from a game design or pre-existing fluff perspective) that warrants creating a whole army which is able to run 6 of them? Couldn't you just as easily make "Codex: Baneblades" or "Codex: Stompa", which proposed the existence of some rogue element of Baneblade pilots that merc themselves out to the highest bidder?
It just seems like the thought process was...
What's the goal? Sell as many of these as possible.
What prevents people from buying 5 of them?
Well, the fact that most models are intended for a particular army rather than EVERYONE.
OK, then let's make this legal in almost any army.
Also - that dang force org, it limits people to 3 slots something, no matter how good it is. Plus, some armies already have heavy support that they don't want to stop playing with.
OK, well, let's just eliminate the force org restriction on this thing, that way, anyone can just buy some and put them right into their army.
But that still makes it so that they can only bring 3... how can we encourage people to buy more than 3?
Make a new army which is ONLY for this model, that way we can get up to 6 purchases from one customer!
But - isn't that kinda weird from a gameplay perspective? Like, armies have troops right?
Well... let's just make them all scoring then!
Shouldn't that cause a points adjustment, or something?
Too late for that guys, the points are already in. Let's just roll with it.
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Well, I mean, it makes sense to open more armies up to be able to take more choices to sell the models. Making the choices competitive will get people who want top armies to buy new things. There should probably be a force org slot for Mercenaries where you can choose Inquisitor, Knight, Legion of the Damned, other armies that aren't a full codex, but only one. Not some of everything.
Ill be curious to see what they do if 7th or 6.5 or whatever comes out later this year. I would guess decent sized changes to the force org and hopefully some kind of Nerf to the wizard lores in the rulebook.
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I just think it smacks of desparation on GW's part... do you think there is anything about this model (from a game design or pre-existing fluff perspective) that warrants creating a whole army which is able to run 6 of them? Couldn't you just as easily make "Codex: Baneblades" or "Codex: Stompa", which proposed the existence of some rogue element of Baneblade pilots that merc themselves out to the highest bidder?
It just seems like the thought process was...
What's the goal? Sell as many of these as possible.
What prevents people from buying 5 of them?
Well, the fact that most models are intended for a particular army rather than EVERYONE.
OK, then let's make this legal in almost any army.
Also - that dang force org, it limits people to 3 slots something, no matter how good it is. Plus, some armies already have heavy support that they don't want to stop playing with.
OK, well, let's just eliminate the force org restriction on this thing, that way, anyone can just buy some and put them right into their army.
But that still makes it so that they can only bring 3... how can we encourage people to buy more than 3?
Make a new army which is ONLY for this model, that way we can get up to 6 purchases from one customer!
But - isn't that kinda weird from a gameplay perspective? Like, armies have troops right?
Well... let's just make them all scoring then!
Shouldn't that cause a points adjustment, or something?
Too late for that guys, the points are already in. Let's just roll with it.
^ This.
Well, I mean, it makes sense to open more armies up to be able to take more choices to sell the models. Making the choices competitive will get people who want top armies to buy new things. There should probably be a force org slot for Mercenaries where you can choose Inquisitor, Knight, Legion of the Damned, other armies that aren't a full codex, but only one. Not some of everything.
Ill be curious to see what they do if 7th or 6.5 or whatever comes out later this year. I would guess decent sized changes to the force org and hopefully some kind of Nerf to the wizard lores in the rulebook.
Why have rules? WHy have FOC or any kind of ally restrictions? Let's just let everyone take ALL the things.
I think 7th ed (read: 6th ed errata they should have been doing, sold to you for $80) probably will include super-heavies stock, like flyers with 6th. Cuz in case you didn't notice, GW REALLY wants to sell these things. Like, their life depends upon it. (I dunno, it might, I'm picturing they took out loans from the cast of snatch)
And.....I think that will probably be the end of things. Ultimate jump the shark moment. At least it will live on as IP to be licensed out.
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$41 for a book that has only a single models worth of rules that are imbalanced as hell and not given a damn about to field a $140 model, no thanks. Charge what you want for the model, but clearly GW doesn't care about rules anymore, so why charge so much for them. And I'd wager black library will sell a supplement for these guys that might include an additional rule or two for another $20 shortly after release.
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If people hate 40k.. then either sell you army on eBay for cash, or sell it @ BG for store credit. Obsessive complaining about something out of your control is not healthy and clutters the forum for people who are actually interested in the game.
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If people hate 40k.. then either sell you army on eBay for cash, or sell it @ BG for store credit. Obsessive complaining about something out of your control is not healthy and clutters the forum for people who are actually interested in the game.
Now opening: SUNSHINE FORUMS.
You know, people are complaining specifically because they are interested and have an interest in the game.
Or at least what it was, before GW turned it into this naked cash grab.
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If people hate 40k.. then either sell you army on eBay for cash, or sell it @ BG for store credit. Obsessive complaining about something out of your control is not healthy and clutters the forum for people who are actually interested in the game.
Now opening: SUNSHINE FORUMS.
You know, people are complaining specifically because they are interested and have an interest in the game.
Or at least what it was, before GW turned it into this naked cash grab.
This post is a lot like smoking a pack of cigarettes.
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But seriously, criticism isn't the same as aimless complaining. What has come of complaining is realizing as a community what can be done to fix it and there is going to be good coming from the conversation.
Just because people don't revere GW doesn't mean you have to be so upset about it.
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I don't think I'd ever sell my models, at least my painted ones. First of all, the market for those is probably crashing. Secondly, meager though my painting skills may be, I'm too proud of what I've done to trade it away.
But, I may stop playing competitive events, which is sorta a big thing for me. And I'm kinda boycotting GW products. Like, I actually love this knight model, I think it's very pretty, but I'm disgusted enough by the rules, what I think it will do to 40k, that it would really bother me to buy one. And I know GW doesn't deserve my money for their rules anymore.
My last 3 tournament winnings have gone to warmachine. And I spent $60 for the whole card library for my phone app! Which sounds crazy to me, but I don't even regret it. Those cards are promised to update. I have the rules for all Warmahordes products, forever, for a little more than GW thinks I owe it for a codex with maybe 12 units, and 40 pages of recycled fluff and pics.
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But seriously, criticism isn't the same as aimless complaining. What has come of complaining is realizing as a community what can be done to fix it and there is going to be good coming from the conversation.
Just because people don't revere GW doesn't mean you have to be so upset about it.
I think it's possible to fix the game, at least somewhat. I have a lot of ideas about, so do others. One fix in particular came out that would fix 90% of the problems. But people have to be willing to change the rules. People can't be all like "super-heavies are here, learn to live with them" or whatever.
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But seriously, criticism isn't the same as aimless complaining. What has come of complaining is realizing as a community what can be done to fix it and there is going to be good coming from the conversation.
Just because people don't revere GW doesn't mean you have to be so upset about it.
People don't have to revere GW, but constructive criticism stopped a long time ago.. and yes it is now aimless complaining. I'm starting to think that everyone here is suffering from 'roid rage, then I realize that no form of rage comes close to nerd rage. The thread has devolved so far off topic that it doesn't even make sense anymore.
Take a deep breath people, at the end of the day it's just a game. :o
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It is not aimless.
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But seriously, criticism isn't the same as aimless complaining. What has come of complaining is realizing as a community what can be done to fix it and there is going to be good coming from the conversation.
Just because people don't revere GW doesn't mean you have to be so upset about it.
People don't have to revere GW, but constructive criticism stopped a long time ago.. and yes it is now aimless complaining. I'm starting to think that everyone here is suffering from 'roid rage, then I realize that no form of rage comes close to nerd rage. The thread has devolved so far off topic that it doesn't even make sense anymore.
Take a deep breath people, at the end of the day it's just a game. :o
yeah....I agree I miss playing 40k in abington
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But seriously, criticism isn't the same as aimless complaining. What has come of complaining is realizing as a community what can be done to fix it and there is going to be good coming from the conversation.
Just because people don't revere GW doesn't mean you have to be so upset about it.
I think it's possible to fix the game, at least somewhat. I have a lot of ideas about, so do others. One fix in particular came out that would fix 90% of the problems. But people have to be willing to change the rules. People can't be all like "super-heavies are here, learn to live with them" or whatever.
What one thing fixes 90% of the problems? Do people even generally agree on what the "problems" are, or how severe they are?
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I just think it smacks of desparation on GW's part... do you think there is anything about this model (from a game design or pre-existing fluff perspective) that warrants creating a whole army which is able to run 6 of them? Couldn't you just as easily make "Codex: Baneblades" or "Codex: Stompa", which proposed the existence of some rogue element of Baneblade pilots that merc themselves out to the highest bidder?
It just seems like the thought process was...
What's the goal? Sell as many of these as possible.
What prevents people from buying 5 of them?
Well, the fact that most models are intended for a particular army rather than EVERYONE.
OK, then let's make this legal in almost any army.
Also - that dang force org, it limits people to 3 slots something, no matter how good it is. Plus, some armies already have heavy support that they don't want to stop playing with.
OK, well, let's just eliminate the force org restriction on this thing, that way, anyone can just buy some and put them right into their army.
But that still makes it so that they can only bring 3... how can we encourage people to buy more than 3?
Make a new army which is ONLY for this model, that way we can get up to 6 purchases from one customer!
But - isn't that kinda weird from a gameplay perspective? Like, armies have troops right?
Well... let's just make them all scoring then!
Shouldn't that cause a points adjustment, or something?
Too late for that guys, the points are already in. Let's just roll with it.
This was a pretty beautiful summary of how this probably went down.
We had a discussion last night on another forum where someone was complaining about a Serpent Spam list and it made me consider it in context of a game full of Baneblades and Strength D and such. In that world, something like the Knight almost makes sense. Almost.
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http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?42066-Imperial-Knights-Delays-in-Eastern-US
Possible knight delays? Better get your orders into Chase now!
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Welcome to the old days of GW BS.
I would love to see how this shortage is affecting GW stores.
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We were in for 16. 9 were shipped. I'm okay with that number given all the doom and gloom (as is ABSOLUTELY the normal here over the past few months).
It's a shame that this message board is definitely costing me money lately.
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Shut it down!
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We were in for 16. 9 were shipped. I'm okay with that number given all the doom and gloom (as is ABSOLUTELY the normal here over the past few months).
It's a shame that this message board is definitely costing me money lately.
I'm eventually going to pick one up for a grey knights/sister army but that's alot of cheddar.
Sorry the boards ar bumming you out chase.
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It's a shame that this message board is definitely costing me money lately.
It's a shame GW is costing you money lately.
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We were in for 16. 9 were shipped. I'm okay with that number given all the doom and gloom (as is ABSOLUTELY the normal here over the past few months).
It's a shame that this message board is definitely costing me money lately.
Boot/Ban users. You don't have to put up with it.
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It's a shame GW is costing you money lately.
GW isn't costing Chase money, it's the damn "community" (whatever that is).. a lot of people were excited for the Knights until the endless bitching started.
We were in for 16. 9 were shipped. I'm okay with that number given all the doom and gloom (as is ABSOLUTELY the normal here over the past few months).
It's a shame that this message board is definitely costing me money lately.
Boot/Ban users. You don't have to put up with it.
Agree, I think there should be stricter forum guidelines. The current environment is toxic for players that are actually interested in the game, and of course bad for business.
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I'm honestly still pretty excited about knights. When it all comes down to it, this is a game about cool little plastic dudes. The knights are really cool plastic dudes. It's a beatiful model that has me excited about painting for the first time in a rather long time.
Furthermore, if you ignore the chainsword for a moment, I really think it's not that bad. Sure, it's a superheavy walker. If you think about it, armor 13 with a 4+ invul is equivalent (approximately, obviously) to something that's toughness 9 with 4+ armor (that you can't ignore.... but vehicles don't normally get armor saves). It has 6 "wounds" which can potentially be removed 3 at a time. It's immune to instant death. Lastly, it carries a weapons payload that is far less devastating than certain wraithknight/riptide builds.
Now the Strength D chainsword is an interesting issue. Yes, without question, if it gets into close combat with something, it'll kill it. Yes, it moves like jump infantry. There are a lot of units that are tough in close combat that move quickly. How do you normally deal with those? Running away is a valid strategy... as is tarpitting (preferably with a fearless mob of pitifully cheap dudes, spaced far enough apart that it'll take a while to engage all of them, thus saving you from stomp).
Yes, 5 of these in an army is going to be silly. I don't think it'll be a particularly good army once the meta catches up to it. I think people will more likely bring one or two.
Last but not least: If someone asks if you want to play 40k, you are allowed to ask what they're playing and decide whether you want to play. If a game isn't going to be fun, don't play it.
Tournaments are another issue, but I seriously doubt someone will bring 5 knights to a tournament. Remember those silly Necon Croissant lists? 10 Paladins and Draigo? Eleventy F***ing Riptides and Broadsides? There will always be the buid du'jour, it will always be unbalanced as hell, and they will always go away at some point, when people figure out that they aren't actually good in general.
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Where does it say it moves like jump infantry? Super heavy walkers get slowed down by terrain like anything else.
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Where does it say it moves like jump infantry? Super heavy walkers get slowed down by terrain like anything else.
It can move 12 and still fire all its weapons normally because it's a superheavy, superheavies also have move through cover like MCS so they can roll 3d6
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The other thing no one has mentioned (or maybe even picked up on)
When one of these knights lose their last hull point they ALWAYS explode.
Everyone who wants to run one of these needs to have the new blue super pie plate (Chase, might want to make sure you have a few in stock)
The str varies depending on the roll but the center of the pizza plate is always STR D and the other two rings can be STR 4/2, 8/4, 10/5. APs are 2/4/6, 2/3/5, 2/3/4
Depending on scatter it's going to ruin someone's day and has disadvantages for both user and opponent but it would certainly be a lot better for the person facing a knight to kill it from far away
If it gets killed at range it's probably going to take out a huge chunk of bubble wrap around it. In Melee a D hit could likely take out whomever struck the blow that killed the knight
Food for thought, this means normal games of 40k will have large blast D hits, personally I think it balances the knight issue more because it's a huge liability for anyone running knights whose master plan is to sit back and shoot.
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We were in for 16. 9 were shipped. I'm okay with that number given all the doom and gloom (as is ABSOLUTELY the normal here over the past few months).
It's a shame that this message board is definitely costing me money lately.
I'm still buying one when taxes come in. It's just too dawn cool not to, even if GW sux. :)
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When one of these knights lose their last hull point they ALWAYS explode.
I can't wait to set off a chain knightsplosion. Ultimate 40k achievement?
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When one of these knights lose their last hull point they ALWAYS explode.
I can't wait to set off a chain knightsplosion. Ultimate 40k achievement?
I think your dreads need a blast painted on them for every knight they kersplode
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It's a shame GW is costing you money lately.
GW isn't costing Chase money, it's the damn "community" (whatever that is).. a lot of people were excited for the Knights until the endless bitching started.
We were in for 16. 9 were shipped. I'm okay with that number given all the doom and gloom (as is ABSOLUTELY the normal here over the past few months).
It's a shame that this message board is definitely costing me money lately.
Boot/Ban users. You don't have to put up with it.
Agree, I think there should be stricter forum guidelines. The current environment is toxic for players that are actually interested in the game, and of course bad for business.
So, it's the fault of everyone who disagrees with you, eh?
Look, it's a very pretty model, but the rules are evidence that GW is trying to change the game on the basis of what sells new models, rather than what is balanced, or makes a good game. And the game is suffering, because of it.
Blaming the forums for lost sales is quite literally, blaming the messenger.
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It's not like I never post anything positive. I was the one who originally posted the cool Nova Narrative rules, and that thread got a lot of goshwow responses and Brad took the helm and now BG is gonna have a tournament with those rules. I post with my impressions of what's going on. If that is not supposed to be the purpose of the forum, fine, I'll stop. IMHO it's not really worth reading anything when you know people aren't saying what they actually think.
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Other stores have a much simpler strategy of only stocking what people order if it's below a certain cost, and directly ordering the rest on request. Has BG tried that at all? Also, stores never seem to monetize their best resources, (the space, of course). Since Plainville is such a nice space I'd wonder if that might not be beneficial in lieu of sales.
Either way, I don't think lamenting the customer base as being a burden is going to drum up much support.
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When one of these knights lose their last hull point they ALWAYS explode.
I can't wait to set off a chain knightsplosion. Ultimate 40k achievement?
I think your dreads need a blast painted on them for every knight they kersplode
This is happening. Ohhhhh so happening. I may very well carry an airbrush and a blast stencil everywhere I go :O
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Put me down for 1 on the next shipment Chase. Please.
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It's true that some of us buy models, while others buy game pieces.
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Everyone who wants to run one of these needs to have the new blue super pie plate (Chase, might want to make sure you have a few in stock)
They don't exist anymore. Ironic, right?
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Everyone who wants to run one of these needs to have the new blue super pie plate (Chase, might want to make sure you have a few in stock)
They don't exist anymore. Ironic, right?
Standard GW thinking right there...
"Let's sell a model that needs a 15" pie plate"
"Those were limited edition, we don't have anymore"
"Sell it anyway!!!"
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It's true that some of us buy models, while others buy game pieces.
Yup, yup. That's what half the fighting comes down to, right?
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http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2014/02/40k-hail-to-king-imperial-knight-tactics.html
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http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2014/02/40k-hail-to-king-imperial-knight-tactics.html
The big thing about the stubbers (so it seems to me) is that it can charge whatever it shot with the stubber. They didn't mention this in their review. Super heavies can only assault things they shot, and the big gun is likely to kill what it shoots. The stubber probably won't, so it gives you the opportunity to shoot a big threat with the pie plates and peg a closeby unit so you can charge it to keep the titan moving around the board.
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So, it's the fault of everyone who disagrees with you, eh?
Look, it's a very pretty model, but the rules are evidence that GW is trying to change the game on the basis of what sells new models, rather than what is balanced, or makes a good game. And the game is suffering, because of it.
Blaming the forums for lost sales is quite literally, blaming the messenger.
Dude, no one wants to feel guilty for buying/fielding a Knight.. and they certainly don't want to hear bitching and whining during the game.
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Yo dog, I heard you liked accurate measurements of things:
(http://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/at/at2/2014/3/1/fd0ca463c98faf2a1381c02be0eaad8f_743.jpg)
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Also, to us older nerds: This is officially a titan.
Apparently the fluff has been updated.
It's not a huge deal but knights used to be something else, like big dreadnoughts that could use a not near-corpse as a driver but what GW has been describing as the pilots.
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I should probably say I'm
stealing borrowing this info from Dakka so yeah.
Chaos Knight Titan:
(https://scontent-a-cdg.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1/10001297_363870870417919_1619316865_n.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/t1/p720x720/1901866_363871727084500_992964465_n.jpg)
I gotta say, I haven't played this game in a while but these models are really beautiful and it's nice to see the conversion possibilities...
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OK that is just awesome.
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The 11th Company's take on codex: Knights is highly recommended, just don't listen while you're driving or anything (nice LOL's).
BTW, GW already broke their own record for "fewest units in a codex". The Knights Codex has 2 units in it, but the recently released Codex: Legion of the Damned has only 1 unit.
That's right, codex: LoTD is just a codex that consists of one or more units of legion of the damned - same rules from the Space Marine version. There's apparently not even a rule adjustment that lets them start on the board. One sarge gets to be the HQ...
Codex: Inquisition is looking better and better
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Yo dog, I heard you liked accurate measurements of things:
(http://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/at/at2/2014/3/1/fd0ca463c98faf2a1381c02be0eaad8f_743.jpg)
Thanks for that
A song comes to mind though. "I wish I was a little bit taller, wish I was a baller...."
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Oh man a chaos knight would be sooooooo much fun to paint
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Yeah, I wasn't kidding about a dark mechanicus army many pages back.
I was hoping to use the Dreamforge kits though but the size will be an issue. :(
EDIT:
On the upside though, these actually line up with the Warhounds and Reavers perfectly. They scale well when compared to them so there is that.
(http://i.imgur.com/tXDaGVn.jpg)
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Yeah, I wasn't kidding about a dark mechanicus army many pages back.
I was hoping to use the Dreamforge kits though but the size will be an issue. :(
Yeah, seems to be right between the 15mm kit (4.7in) and the 28mm kit (8.5in).
Chop some of the legs off the 28mm....boost up the 15mm...
So what size are those bases? New size or MC size?
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Yeah, I wasn't kidding about a dark mechanicus army many pages back.
I was hoping to use the Dreamforge kits though but the size will be an issue. :(
Yeah, seems to be right between the 15mm kit (4.7in) and the 28mm kit (8.5in).
Chop some of the legs off the 28mm....boost up the 15mm...
So what size are those bases? New size or MC size?
its the flyer base/ oval MC base (riptides, dreadknights, wraithknits, etc, etc)
i'll bring one of the assembled dreamforge leviathans Thursday just to see if anyone has a GW knight to stick it next to and see the difference. 6 1/2" vs 8 1/2" but i think the Leviathan is a lot... "beefier" too
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The 11th Company's take on codex: Knights is highly recommended, just don't listen while you're driving or anything (nice LOL's).
BTW, GW already broke their own record for "fewest units in a codex". The Knights Codex has 2 units in it, but the recently released Codex: Legion of the Damned has only 1 unit.
That's right, codex: LoTD is just a codex that consists of one or more units of legion of the damned - same rules from the Space Marine version. There's apparently not even a rule adjustment that lets them start on the board. One sarge gets to be the HQ...
Codex: Inquisition is looking better and better
So foe $41 you get the same rules as the $4 white dwarf? Really? No other rules, just fluff?
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Well, they give you a warlord chart. Cuz that's important.
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DAT CHAOS KNIGHT. Gotta admit it's sweet.
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Actually, it has a new base size.
http://taleofpainters.blogspot.com/2014/03/review-imperial-knight-titan.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+taleofpainters_posts+%28Stahly%27s+Tale+of+Painters%29
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Actually, it has a new base size.
http://taleofpainters.blogspot.com/2014/03/review-imperial-knight-titan.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+taleofpainters_posts+%28Stahly%27s+Tale+of+Painters%29
Oh ho!
Thanks for that rob, I almost based my Leviathans on the old oval bases today.
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I have no idea where to get the new base. Hopefully chase can order then, but I do not see them on GWs website.
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I have no idea where to get the new base. Hopefully chase can order then, but I do not see them on GWs website.
Has GW sold just bases in the past? Hopefully someone in the BG community who already has one of these can give us measurements of this new base, maybe someone already sells a resin one.
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GW sells all their bases
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp?catId=cat470008a&rootCatGameStyle=paints-tools
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Yeah, but like I said, the new base size is not listed. I am sure that it will be at some point, but they do not list it right now.
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If you want the new base, just buy the model. #anothercleverploy
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I'm sure it will be listed. It costs them money to make it so they want to sell it like the rest of the bases.
EDIT:
Just keep f5'ing the page.
I think this is one of the few times we can reliably use history to tell us what GW will do.
Or, like said previous there will be aftermarket ones. Even though the shipping issues are undoubtedly GW's fault to drum up a sense of urgency from it's fans, the model and it's base will be very popular.
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So, you know how can do that dumb thing and rotate an oval base for like an extra half inch of charge range? It'll be worse with these.
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I'm gonna add some beefy magnets to the waist section just so when I cheat that whopping half inch it will look like it's walking towards the doomed unit.
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Well, it might be an inch or more with these, it looks like. The oval is both bigger, and slightly more elongated. Anyway, you maybe don't care, but I've seen it come up.
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Welp... now I feel bad for whoever put together that beautiful Slaanesh Knight.
GW has changed their mind (for a second time) about the allied chart for Codex: Knights. There is no longer any such thing as a Chaos Knight.
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Well that is fucking shitty.
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Welp... now I feel bad for whoever put together that beautiful Slaanesh Knight.
GW has changed their mind (for a second time) about the allied chart for Codex: Knights. There is no longer any such thing as a Chaos Knight.
Well, given the composition of my armies, I suppose it saves me a bit of cash... at least until SUPPLEMENT: SPIKEY KNIGHTS comes out and I'll be drawn in like a house fly into a vacuum cleaner.
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How did GW change their mind? The "Chaos Knight" was never intended to be in there.. was always just fanboy wishlisting.
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How did GW change their mind? The "Chaos Knight" was never intended to be in there.. was always just fanboy wishlisting.
Didn't they say in the white dwarf, "Anyone can take a knight detachment"? Then later post on facebook "we meant, anyone except Tyranids"? I didn't see either of these things... just read people write about them on blogs etc. Maybe I'm just contributing to the sea of confusion here
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I believe you're correct, but I don't have the WD in front of me to verify. For those that want to use a chaos or cron knight just use the rules in WD. IA and 40K are pretty much standard now with all the new dataslates and supplements coming out every other day. So why not just use the WD rules? Thats what im doing cause im not spending $49. for the same rules and a bunch of fluff I dont care about.
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(http://s1.hubimg.com/u/8798058_f1024.jpg)
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(http://s1.hubimg.com/u/8798058_f1024.jpg)
That's a pretty great troll.
Look up top, you can't.
Dare to be literate? You can!
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That's a pretty great troll.
Look up top, you can't.
Dare to be literate? You can!
was just putting up the chart from the codex cause i figured not everyone has the digi codex or access to the real one.
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Yeah I don't think that was a troll... you know what IS a troll? GW printing the allied chart that way. It was like someone dared someone to try to figure out a way to make this page as annoying to read as possible. The chart is one row... yet to understand it, you have to cross reference both the little symbol AND the color with keys below... For example, one easy improvement would be to just skip the top bar, and color code the symbols below in the right color? This has to be the worst designed chart I have ever seen.
OK. Daily minirant over
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Agree wholeheartedly here -- looking at that chart makes every part of my brain that did graphic design for a living just hurt.
They are really making quite a mess of the game with all these "ally in bonus detachments" as of late. I wonder if the "7th" edition rules will change how they work.
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derp derp lets make the key bigger and more central than what it explains derp derp derp
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That's a pretty great troll.
Look up top, you can't.
Dare to be literate? You can!
was just putting up the chart from the codex cause i figured not everyone has the digi codex or access to the real one.
Yeah, I was saying GW was trolling us, not you.