Battleground Games Forum
Games Workshop => Warhammer 40K => Topic started by: Chase on May 22, 2014, 07:10:52 PM
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http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2014/05/40k-7th-edition-rules-top-10-truth-squad.html
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Yep looks like deathstars got weaker, especially since everything can score now.
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Wow those new jink rules are a big nerf to shooty bike armies and skimmer armies. On the other hand Ork warbikers are suddenly special again.
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I don't see how that's a nerf. The save got better and you have to snap fire at them when they do it.
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I was reading it is the thing jinking could only make snap shots next turn. That's what everyone else was saying. Which if true would hurt Skimmer tanks like the fire prism.
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I was reading it is the thing jinking could only make snap shots next turn. That's what everyone else was saying. Which if true would hurt Skimmer tanks like the fire prism.
This is correct. The unit that chooses to jink must snap fire. The unit shooting at the skimmer fires as normal.
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If jink save forced snapshots on all incoming shot, it would be ridiculously overpowered...
Imagine if you just always needed a 6 to hit a wave serpent or any flyer, regardless of whether you were a flyer yourself or had skyfire.
No, it must mean "as a skimmer/flyer/bike/whatevr, if you jink save, you must snapshot on your next turn". That would actually be a really good rule IMHO, balanced and fluffy too.
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I'll have the book in hand today to clarify it, what I read was worded awkwardly and it seemed one way but is probably another, now that you mention it. I looked it up and have seen it worded more clearly elsewhere.
I'm curious what this means for the Serpent spam armies, but I don't know enough about the rest of the changes to speculate.
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I have the book, here are some noticeable big changes in standard games:
1) Vehicles can only be "one-shoted" by AP1&2 weapons, otherwise you still need to glance them to death
2) Daemonology is very dangerous to use unless you're Grey Knights(Santic) or Daemons(Maelfic).
3) D weapons and Stomp have been nerfed, D weapons can still ignore invulnerable saves but ONLY on a roll of 6
4) All units can score now, but Troops can steal objectives from non-troops with the "Objective Secured" rule
5) Ally chart is very flexible, as the "Come the Apocalypse" rule has changed drastically. So armies like Chaos Marines and Orks can now take converted Imperial Knights, and Tyranids can ally with some "infested" Astra Militarum/Marines <insert faction here> if they choose. In a nutshell, everyone can ally with anyone.
Changes seem very cool
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I took some notes on noteworthy changes I noticed reading up in the new book to post for my club, I might as well share them here. Take these with a grain of salt as I haven't got it down 100% yet and there may be exceptions, but here's what jumped out at me:
No Fortifications?
The first thing is, well, I don't see the Aegis Defense Line or other terrain you can take in your list anywhere. It appears from what I've read that these are now exclusively part of Stronghold Assault (which explains why they were put in that book despite already existing in the main book). This means that if you run a tournament, and don't allow Stronghold Assault, you effectively ban these things.
No More Auto-Hit for Vehicles
Vehicles are now ALWAYS WS1. This means that stationary vehicles are hit on 3's instead of automatically.
Area Terrain is gone
This is going to cause some debate, I think. Basically the book doesn't define area terrain anywhere and basically says if you are obscured by or "in" (i.e., in contact with) a piece of terrain, you get the save. This combined with Ruins always being 4+ sucks a little, as it took away some of the strategy of positioning. But I can't 100% confirm this yet, as there may be a section with more specifics that I missed.
Mysterious Terrain is by Feature, not a General thing
They have datasheets for all the GW terrain kits that aren't from Stronghold Assault in the book, and specify that some of them are mysterious and will have their own tables accordingly (such as the Aquila Lander). This means forests and rivers (both of which are absent as far as I can tell), aren't mysterious at all anymore.
New Warlord table
A fourth warlord trait table interacts exclusively with the new objective cards.
ATSKNF Nerf
The signature Space Marine rule takes a slight hit and doesn't let you make your 3-inch consolidation move anymore (though you can still do the rest after).
Jink revamp
Jink is, as already mentioned, changed a lot. It is now not "always on" and instead is more risk/reward; you can decide to jink before any to-hit rolls are made against a model with that rule, and then you get a flat 4+ cover save, but must snap fire afterward. This is pretty huge, particularly big change for bikes and skimmers.
Assault Casualties
I noticed in assault when removing casualties, you must remove models in base contact with enemies who are at the same initiative step first. This is pretty big.
Challenge Overflow
Extra wounds made during a challenge now overflow onto the other enemies, allocated to those closest to the character that is killed.
Chariot Heavy Weapon fix
There is a note about Chariots which allows their riders to fire "as if they haven't moved" which will allow the Tzeentch chariot to fire its' weapons on the move.
Templates vs. Open-topped
Vehicles which are open-topped that get hit by template weapons result in d6 randomly allocated hits to the units inside.
Zealot rule fixed
The Zealot rule has been rewritten so that it gives the same exact effects as the other rules it previously granted, but this means that things which affect those rules no longer affect Zealot.
Vehicle damage affects passengers
On any shaken, stunned, weapon destroyed, and immobilized results, passengers now have to take a leadership test. If failed they can only snap fire.
Exploding vehicles at Strength 4
When a vehicle explodes now, the radius is the same (D6 inches), but it is strength 4 AP - instead of strength 3 AP -.
Scoring
All units are scoring now, and battle brothers can ride in each other's transports (though not sure if they can be deployed in them just yet).
General Walker buff
All Walkers get the Hammer of Wrath rule, which is great news for Dreadnoughts and such. Hammer of Wrath is more specific about how the weapon rules interact with it (i.e., they never ever ever affect it). But a free extra hit for Walkers in CC is still nice.
Split Fire and Counterattack
Neither of these rules requires a leadership test any longer, which makes them much better.
The Flying MC Nerf
This one's gonna break some hearts. Flying Monstrous Creatures are no longer able to charge into assault on the same turn that they changed flight modes. This change is clearly meant to put them into "Jump MCs that sometimes can take a long trip across the board" instead of "always flying MCs that occasionally land and fight." But it will definitely cause some notable butthurt among the Daemon community.
A roll of 6 on Perils makes your Psyker go Super Saiyan
If you get Perils of the Warp and roll a 6 on the table, you take a leadership test and if passed, your psyker gets the Smash, armourbane, fleshbane rules, plus a 3+ invulnerable save, all until the next psychic phase.
Psychic Power Bonus...for Chaos?
The rules state if you generate all your powers from one table you get the primaris for free. That's great. But there is also a sidebar for "Mark of/Daemon of" psykers, which basically says you automatically know the primaris for free in your patron god's power table. Adds a lot of potency/versatility to Chaos psykers.
These are the main things that jumped out at me on my first read-through. How do I feel about all of them? Well, as always, the new edition brings sense to the unthinkable choices beforehand. I thoroughly enjoy that the Wave Serpent spam and the FMC spam lists are going to have to be less easy-mode. Looking forward to an edition where Chaos becomes very potent again, as now their "must always challenge" rule is less foolish. The Vehicle changes are going to really change the game a great deal and add a lot of value to things like Lascannons and Railguns. It's hard to predict but things are looking VERY interesting, if nothing else.
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Couple of other things:
Smash is one single attack now, so MCs won't auto-kill vehicles.
Similarly, Vector Strikes got taken down a notch, which will make the Heldrake much less ubiquitous since they are only get a single AP2 attack now.
There are a lot of people reviewing the book and doing the summoning powers very wrong. Every unit you summon has to deep strike, and has to do so within the summoning power's range. These stories of heralds summoning endless daemons aren't taking into account the fact these things can have deep strike mishaps.
Also, you can't just magic up a Herald who then generates another summoning power; Conjured units are specifically forbidden from generating Conjuration powers. I read a review where they claimed a Daemon army was able to summon up 2000 extra points during its' game, but they obeyed none of the restrictions that are actually in the book...
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Thanks for the write up on the finer details, this will be a handy reference for people who don't want to reread the entire rulebook.
No Fortifications?
The first thing is, well, I don't see the Aegis Defense Line or other terrain you can take in your list anywhere. It appears from what I've read that these are now exclusively part of Stronghold Assault (which explains why they were put in that book despite already existing in the main book). This means that if you run a tournament, and don't allow Stronghold Assault, you effectively ban these things.
Fortifications and Lords of War are included in the Primary Detachment, but need Stronghold Assault and Escalation to function. Remember that the D weapon rules have been scaled back in standard 40k.
Psychic Power Bonus...for Chaos?
The rules state if you generate all your powers from one table you get the primaris for free. That's great. But there is also a sidebar for "Mark of/Daemon of" psykers, which basically says you automatically know the primaris for free in your patron god's power table. Adds a lot of potency/versatility to Chaos psykers.
This isn't a bonus, it's just saying that the Chaos specific disciplines also benefit from the Psychic Focus rule. In other words, it's just to clarify.
Smash is one single attack now, so MCs won't auto-kill vehicles.
Yes they still can, AP2 will still allow them to explode a vehicle, and they can always wreck it if they glance it to death.
Also, you can't just magic up a Herald who then generates another summoning power; Conjured units are specifically forbidden from generating Conjuration powers.
I think you can, reread the rules on conjuring.
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This isn't a bonus, it's just saying that the Chaos specific disciplines also benefit from the Psychic Focus rule. In other words, it's just to clarify.
It states, "If a Psyker has a Mark of Chaos or is a Daemon of a particular Chaos god, that model automatically knows the primaris power of the discipline that corresponds to their patron deity, in addition to any other powers it knows." So I read this as saying that, regardless of what power you take, you know the primaris.
Yes they still can, AP2 will still allow them to explode a vehicle, and they can always wreck it if they glance it to death.
Well, correct, but what I meant was more along the lines of it isn't guaranteed they will kill vehicles anymore. I think most MCs won't use smash but will instead try to use their regular attacks to get the job done. But thank you for clarifying, I didn't make it very clear in my original post and was a little vague about it.
I think you can, reread the rules on conjuring
Caught my mistake; it says they cannot MANIFEST another conjuration. The write up I read was still quite wrong as they did this too, having a summoned unit summon another on the same turn they arrived, and didn't deep strike them at all, but this does mean my earlier post was incorrect.
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The Warlords Traits table has been updated and it's a lot better. They basically got rid of the whole you must be within 3 " of an objective or in your deployment zone. For example Tenacity used to be your warlord has "feel no pain" within 3" of an objective. Now it's just your warlord has "Feel No Pain".A lot of them have been buffed. Night Attacker lets you make it Night Fighting turn 1 and gives all models in your army night vision. Master of Ambush lets you infiltrate 3 non vehicle units. There's little in the way of useless warlord traits.
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Can anyone confirm or deny that everything is now scoring (except zooming flyers etc.), in both Unbound and Battle-Forged armies? I keep hearing that's the case.
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Can anyone confirm or deny that everything is now scoring (except zooming flyers etc.), in both Unbound and Battle-Forged armies? I keep hearing that's the case.
Yes everything is scoring, it doesn't matter if it's battle forged or unbound. However Troops have the "Objective Secured" rule, so they capture objectives from any non-troop unit.
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Can anyone confirm or deny that everything is now scoring (except zooming flyers etc.), in both Unbound and Battle-Forged armies? I keep hearing that's the case.
Yes everything is scoring, it doesn't matter if it's battle forged or unbound. However Troops have the "Objective Secured" rule, so they capture objectives from any non-troop unit.
Groovy! Wish I had known that yesterday... My games may have turned out a little different.
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The Flying MC Nerf
This one's gonna break some hearts. Flying Monstrous Creatures are no longer able to charge into assault on the same turn that they changed flight modes. This change is clearly meant to put them into "Jump MCs that sometimes can take a long trip across the board" instead of "always flying MCs that occasionally land and fight." But it will definitely cause some notable butthurt among the Daemon community.
Haven't Vector Strikes and shooting always been enough? Who's silly enough to give their opponent Overwatch shots and potentially get stuck in a bad assault?
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A few other things of note.
Skyfire lets you shoot at flyers, flying monstrous creatures and skimmers at your normal ballistic skill. Snap shots against everything else even if you have interceptor. Which kind of sucks since I liked giving my Orks the 96" range Icarus Las Cannon.
Sniper Has been nerfed a little bit. It no longer rends against vehicles. Instead they are resolved at strength 4.
Rend Is still AP 2 against models but not against vehicles. The extra D3 armour pen is resolved at the weapons normal AP value. So no more blowing up Ironclads and Mega Dreads with Pask in a Leman Russ Punisher.
Skimmers are no longer automatically wrecked if they go flat out and get immobilized. It looks like they can still Jink even if they're immobilized though. And as far as I can tell jinking doesn't cause the passengers to also snap fire. The book also clarifies that vehicles can take cover saves against any weapon that would damage it including grav weapons.
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The Flying MC Nerf
This one's gonna break some hearts. Flying Monstrous Creatures are no longer able to charge into assault on the same turn that they changed flight modes. This change is clearly meant to put them into "Jump MCs that sometimes can take a long trip across the board" instead of "always flying MCs that occasionally land and fight." But it will definitely cause some notable butthurt among the Daemon community.
Haven't Vector Strikes and shooting always been enough? Who's silly enough to give their opponent Overwatch shots and potentially get stuck in a bad assault?
People who use the Bloodthirster, for one.
I doubt the five FMC daemon list was popular because of the Nurgle Daemon Prince's shooting ability.