Battleground Games Forum
Games Workshop => Warhammer 40K => Topic started by: Sir_Prometheus on February 18, 2013, 04:22:12 PM
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http://natfka.blogspot.com/2013/02/chaos-daemon-release-is-here.html
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"Plague Drones"... I don't think these are like Blight Drones, b/c they're rather large to be sold in a package of 3. Hmmmm......
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You're talking about the Forge World models, right? How can they NOT be like them?
I like drones. I would maybe play Chaos demons just to have a very drone heavy army with my Tau.
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Well, the Forge World Models (of which I have 3) are "Blight Drones". If they ever make plastic versions of these, I think they would be sold as 1 per pack, not 3 per pack.
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"Plague Drones"... I don't think these are like Blight Drones, b/c they're rather large to be sold in a package of 3. Hmmmm......
Not plague drones.. plaguebearer fly riders ;) bzzzzzz
Edit: Also keep an eye out for the Khorne Cannon and Tzeench chariot
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As long as I get my bloodcrushers as cav and they aren't stupid expensive; I am happy.
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Juggernauts are cool. Fact.
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Very cool, and I have about 13 of them waiting to shrug dust off since 5th ed.
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I think that they are gonna be cavalry... but they might be stupid expensive.
If they ARE cavalry, I hope that there is something that gives Fiends a reason to exist...
Man... beyond that I have such a wishlist for this codex.
- Something that lets Lord of Change "mess with you" - psychic defense at minimum
- More game-altering abilities out of Greater Daemons, not just combat stats
- Force org unlocking
- Named special Character for the Keeper of Secrets so I can use my Zarykynel model as somethin' special
- Some kind of reward for going mono-god
- Nerfing flamers and screamers (for real. auto-spam units are never a good thing)
- More funky rules in general
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I would love for Daemons to really mess with Psykers. That's long overdue.
I like this though, "Some kind of reward for going mono-god."
It gets my imagination going, like...
Khorne: All units get Rage.
Nurgle: All units get 4+ FNP.
Slaanesh: All units have a 4+ invulnerable in close combat.
Tzeentch: One re-roll per game turn.
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I honestly don't understand why they haven't done something similar for CSM like this already.
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Oh man Ben... that is some good stuff... it would be SO Tzeentchian to hand out some general purpose re-rolls... that's perfect.
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What if its like the chaos codex, and we get... well... uhm... damn... well I'm sure theres cool things ahead.
Daemon Prince troop choices or we burn GW
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im pretty excited for drones.
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Video on GW's blog says you can pre-order on the 23rd.
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I would love for Daemons to really mess with Psykers. That's long overdue.
I like this though, "Some kind of reward for going mono-god."
It gets my imagination going, like...
Khorne: All units get Rage.
Nurgle: All units get 4+ FNP.
Slaanesh: All units have a 4+ invulnerable in close combat.
Tzeentch: One re-roll per game turn.
haha, sounds about right. Poor Tzeentch.
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http://imageshack.us/a/img30/5581/img6393u.jpg
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I have a feeling Pavane and Gift of Chaos will be going away they are not in the current Chaos Marine codex.
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I hope they conform the Daemons to being Psykers instead of justhaving powers. It would fit more in the 40k universe for them to be actaul psykers
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http://natfka.blogspot.com/2013/02/chaos-daemons-rules-for-blood-thirsters.html
Blood thirsters......holy wow. I'm alright with a 280 pt model being pretty badass, but.....wow. I'm assuming demonic flight is just standard FMC but it would be interesting if they weren't.
Conversely, am I wrong, or does it look like bloodletters just suck even worse now? Ok, two pts cheaper, +1 str, but naked and AP4? Do they seriously not realize how useless AP 4 is?
This is sad, because if I were do demons, I'd definitely want to do Khorne, because, y'know, juggernauts, but it sounds like the troops would suck.
dance of death: 40pts
pick an enemy unit at the beginning of the game, that unit must roll a initiative test every turn of the game or is under the control of the daemon player. The unit under control may charge friendly models but cannot move off the board or into any piece of terrain that can cause hard to the model. If the enemy passes the initiative test more than three times during the battle then the dance has been removed for the remainder of the game.
Oh, god, it's lash of slaanesh all over again. I don't care if it's balanced, or even overcosted, taking away control from the opponent is just frustrating and leads to an unfun game.
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I suspect that latest rumor dump will turn out to be totally fake. Something about it all just screams "fanboy wishlisting" to me. The names of the powers and weapons are a little TOO cheesy, even for GW. It doesn't make sense that they'd want to make Daemonettes even worse than they already were. I doubt that they would print a monstrous creatures with 6 wounds that can't even be hurt by anything less than str 6. Etc etc.
Mind you, this is how I wish they WOULD make the greater daemons... maybe not quite this powerful, but with lots of special rules like that.
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dance of death: 40pts
pick an enemy unit at the beginning of the game, that unit must roll a initiative test every turn of the game or is under the control of the daemon player. The unit under control may charge friendly models but cannot move off the board or into any piece of terrain that can cause hard to the model. If the enemy passes the initiative test more than three times during the battle then the dance has been removed for the remainder of the game.
Yeah, this is another thing that seems fake to me. It's just way too swingy. Against some armies (like marines), it's just "kooky and sometimes broken". However, imagine this against Necrons. For 40 pts, I essentially take control of your unit of wraiths with no further actino necessary. That's about a 450 point swing for the points of the unit alone, even without taking into consideration that I've now deployed an elite assault unit right next to all of your other stuff.
Or, god forbid, against Nids. I pay 40 pts to steal your 230 point Tervigon permanently?
No way this is real.
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Yup. I kinda agree. For me, it was the bloodletters that were convincing me that it was fake, but good point with the dance of death power. That would basically be auto-win against many Necron and Tyranid players. (A 'nid player could probably survive losing control of a carnifex or tervigon, but wouldn't be happy. But a wraith unit going rouge in their back lines? Yeah, that could wipe him out, quickly)
I don't have a problem with the Nugle Demons stats. 6 Wounds is pretty common now, and Iron arm already makes it wasy to get it to T8. It's slow though, not winged, so you have plenty of time to bring it down. I don't see a problem.
That blood thirster though...basically no way to kill it in CC. Which is OK, good even, it's fine for the swarmlord. But bringing down a FMC before it gets to you is very luck dependent. You'll either get lucky and bring it down and he'll have wasted 280 pts, or it'll kill your whole army. I don't see too much of that as skill dependent.
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A we've all learned by now we neeed to take rumors just before a codex release with a jar of salt. Just look at all the rumors preceding the latest DA codex.
While certainly overpowered in its current rumored form i think if they bring daemons into the fold of psychic powers thereby making it a alot more balanced given how many armies have psychic defenses in one form or another
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A we've all learned by now we neeed to take rumors just before a codex release with a jar of salt. Just look at all the rumors preceding the latest DA codex.
It's codex release tradition to hit the panic button before the book hits shelves ;D
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and here are the pics...
http://natfka.blogspot.com/2013/02/chaos-daemon-pics-have-arrived.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Faeit212+%28Faeit+212%29
Plague drones aren't nearly as cool looking as the FW Blight drones imo but Daemons aren't my thing so what do i know.
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Ewwww. I'm not a fan of.....any of that, really. The plague drones look to be a form of monstrous cav....that is barely even hovering, but just on a flying base to make it harder to transport.. I wonder if there is even something related for 40k. Anyway the elephant/fly look isn't really where I think it's at. Not that I'm a really a nurgle fan, so maybe I'm a poor judge. I liked Blight drones, though.
The Khorne chariots look just too flowey and light. They look more appropriate to slaneesh or Tzeentch. Khorne models need to speak of impact/spikes/metal/death. These are like the metrosexuals of the blood god. (I think juggernauts represent Khorne well. Blood letters not so much, actually, but they have a huge sword and horns, so that makes up for it)
I guess I hate the Tzeentch chariots least of all, cuz I like a good screamer model, but these are entirely too busy, even for tzeentch. Esepcially the first one--the magical vomit coming out severely gets in the way of and detracts from the body of the actual model. Seriously an idea of, "wouldn't that be neat!" that wasn't well thought out.
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Yeah those models are pretty ugly in those pictures... maybe it's just the grainy pictures (hopefully?)
Yes, those drones might even be a best case scenario for my blighteys... roughly similar in size, but my models are way better looking so they can be "visual upgrades" ... :)
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I hate the way blood letters look. They look so dumb compaired to the pewter ones which not only looked cooler, were better.
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Geez harsh critics, I think the models are awesome.. I look forward to upgrading my daemon army.
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i'm really disappointed here. I was hoping the drones would look different from....whatever those are. They dont even really look like flies , and the wings look stupid. Also , plague bearers riding them is a cool idea , but the way they're on there , it just looks dumb. The only on i really like is the herald of khorne , the chariot of tzeench looks dumb imo as well. waaaay too much going on for me to really distinguish anything.
but , as others have said , whaddoo i know. im still really new to this game.
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I these are just another case of the chibihawks. I assume this will be the same with these models.
I would hold off judgment on these models until you see em in person. Those flies at the very least look like great conversion fodder. Whoever is taking the pictures is also pretty bad, I've noticed of late.
Suitably other-worldly and wrong. I think I'm liking them.
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Looks like Daemons will be getting psyker powers too, parallel to CSM... I'm getting excited for this release
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I'm alright with the "direct dmg powers", like Bolt of Change being just powers, instead of psychic powers. Psychic powers in place of gun do inherently less dmg than a similar profile weapon (more checks to pass, more ways to counter) and GW doesn't seem to know how to cost it right.
Buffs, de-buffs, transformative powers all really need to be psychic powers or have easily available counters, though.
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I doubt that they will make powers such as warpfire, bolt, etc into psychic powers. Think how clunky that would be. A whole army that needs to go through a psychic test and deny the witch before EVERY shooting attack. Also, yes, if you take those to rolls into account, it has like a 1 in 4 chance of fizzling out (more than that if shooting at a psyker), so the cost of shooty guys would need to be cheapened considerably.
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I dunno. They make zoanthropes do it. The primaris fire power is only a heavy flamer.
It's dumb, but GW is bad at math.
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Everything seems pretty on par to be honest. Nothing seems like a bad model, keep in mind we are looking at fuzzy images. The chariots all look very demoic, and we haven't seen anything of the wave (rumored) to be the plastic greaters yet. Those are going to be bad ass.
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New rumors now of daemons getting something called "instability" and losing eternal warrior and fearless... that would be huge unless instability means eternal warrior and fearless much like the new DA "inner circle" is stubborn and preferred enemy CSM
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Instability as it is most recently known is fearless from shooting but in melee take a LD test minus what you lost combat by. This is how many models you lose.
So if you lose combat by 6 you test on LD 4
If you roll a 7, this is a difference of 3 so 3 models suffer a wound.
Who knows if or how they will change it
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Instability as it is most recently known is fearless from shooting but in melee take a LD test minus what you lost combat by. This is how many models you lose.
So if you lose combat by 6 you test on LD 4
If you roll a 7, this is a difference of 3 so 3 models suffer a wound.
Who knows if or how they will change it
Gotcha, so a bit like 5th edition fearless wounds. I'm still not buying off on it until the codex shows up however. As a non demon player i must admit i hope they do lose eternal warrior (at least for most of the army) so my pieplates are actually useful against daemons
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Will Ben's Daemons come back and supplant the Space Sharks?
Heck with Codex's flying out...Maybe getting a new Orks dex relatively soon isn't such a far fetch after all.
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I just hope it goes back to a somewhat minority army that is well balanced.
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I think they really, really need to lose eternal warrior. Or at least the two wound models, then. (screamers and flamers, it's fine on blood crushers) If nothing else (and there's a lot else) it get's you to thinking, "So....why do daemonhunters have force weapons, then?"
Fearless....meh, they're non-human, but someone pointed out to me than daemons should actually probably be hyper-emotional, so fearless doesn't really make sense. I dunno.
I'm pretty sure I don't really want to see anything like the old instability (for 40k, for fantasy I think it's fine), mostly because it seems to me nearly impossible to balance. I.e, a demon unit will either be just murdering whatever else it is, or will lose badly and just get wiped out, with very little in-between.
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Pics of the codex here, a bit grainy on my cell phone but maybe a dameon player can get something useful from them
http://natfka.blogspot.com/2013/02/daemon-information-random-powers.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+Faeit212+(Faeit+212)&m=1
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Will Ben's Daemons come back and supplant the Space Sharks?
No. Of everything I once had, only Fateweaver will live on. There are a number of reasons for this, but to look at the most positive one, I have an awesome Shark Marines army. (Space Sharks are different and far more lame, FYI.)
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(http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/12247207/640/12247207.png) (http://picturepush.com/public/12247207)
Just click the pic for a readable version. Also, please don't get me in trouble with this.
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I want to know what will be in the Battleforce.
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31 figs, homie.
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The limited edition codices are an interesting idea.
It's too bad there's no information on these things whatsoever. I might actually, you know, have something excited about and to save money. In the meantime, I'll just ramp up expectations to unreasonable levels and end up disappointed in something upon which I put impossible expectations. Seems the only reasonable thing to do.
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Ben,
Here is a picture of the Battleforce.
(http://i50.tinypic.com/zv5v6t.jpg)
I have no idea what any of that stuff is. Here is the original article where that came from. natfka.blogspot.com/2013/02/daemon-cover-artr-is-here-including.html
I absolutely love how the Canadian prices are higher even though the Canadian dollar is stronger than the US Dollar.
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Incorrect sir.
US Dollar to Canadian Dollar
1.00 USD =1.025049 CAD
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Incorrect sir.
US Dollar to Canadian Dollar
1.00 USD =1.025049 CAD
eh, it is back up again. Haven't been there in a while....still no where near like when I was in college.
Still, it is a pretty big price difference for currency that is basically at unity.
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Agreed
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Awesome stuff, I hear that Heralds will have a greater support/buff role for their respective daemon troop counterparts too. Looks like a lot less "no brainer" choices overall and more diverse army lists, which is always a good thing.
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Too bad there not doing the different gods for cover's on the regular codex.
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No greater daemons?
WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!??????
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No greater daemons?
WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!??????
It's because GW is forced to release all new models in the first wave, and existing models and redos in the second wave. They are doing this now because if they release rules and artwork for unreleased models, not only can another tabletop company legally copy and create the model, but they can also sue GW when they do release the new model. So yea, things like DE Wracks waiting for 2nd wave release are a thing of the past.
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No greater daemons?
WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!??????
It's because GW is forced to release all new models in the first wave, and existing models and redos in the second wave. They are doing this now because if they release rules and artwork for unreleased models, not only can another tabletop company legally copy and create the model, but they can also sue GW when they do release the new model. So yea, things like DE Wracks waiting for 2nd wave release are a thing of the past.
When necrons hit last year they did some new stuff (barges, arks) and some re-dos (warriors, immortals) in the first wave.
Then a bunch of new stuff in the second wave a couple months later (flyers, the walker, jetbikes, spyders) think the only re-do in the 2nd wave was wraiths
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When necrons hit last year they did some new stuff (barges, arks) and some re-dos (warriors, immortals) in the first wave.
Then a bunch of new stuff in the second wave a couple months later (flyers, the walker, jetbikes, spyders) think the only re-do in the 2nd wave was wraiths
Like all GW releases, that stuff was already planned about 18 months in advance. Redos can technically be anytime, but new stuff has to be released in the first wave for it to be legally protected.
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So why can't they just make the first wave bigger and also include the greater daemons?
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To draw out overall spending so they dont blow their wad on the initial release.
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To draw out overall spending so they dont blow their wad on the initial release.
Exactly, and combined with the fact that they have increased their codex/AB release schedule, another wave gives them something to release during "off" months.
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When necrons hit last year they did some new stuff (barges, arks) and some re-dos (warriors, immortals) in the first wave.
Then a bunch of new stuff in the second wave a couple months later (flyers, the walker, jetbikes, spyders) think the only re-do in the 2nd wave was wraiths
Like all GW releases, that stuff was already planned about 18 months in advance. Redos can technically be anytime, but new stuff has to be released in the first wave for it to be legally protected.
Interesting, so a company like chapterhouse or something could have come out witha necron flyer after the initial release and before the 2nd wave and not been sued?
Like you said though all this has been long designed, molded and box arted before the release and all the 2nd wave daemon stuff is already sitting ona shelf ready to go
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Interesting, so a company like chapterhouse or something could have come out witha necron flyer after the initial release and before the 2nd wave and not been sued?
Like you said though all this has been long designed, molded and box arted before the release and all the 2nd wave daemon stuff is already sitting ona shelf ready to go
Actually I believe the case was specificlly GW vs Chapterhouse but I don't recall the specifics. GW can't copyright something that doesn't exist.
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The chapterhouse law suit was something different, I havn't followed it in a bit it may have changed.
Chapterhouse basically got in trouble for saying there stuff can be used with GW miniatures. Unlike other 3rd party bitz makers who just called Eldar = Space Elves.
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From now on you won't see GW withholding new models.. another indicator is the time between the official announcement& advance orders are much closer to the release dates. For Daemons, the time between the advanced order and the actual release is only 7 days.. closest its ever been.
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Crystal Clear WD pictures http://forofreakfactory.mforos.com/1035375/11148828-en-marzo-demonios-rumores-y-fotos-a-dia-22/#101896978
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I have formulated an opinion. The Khorne Stuff looks LAME. Those chariots look like some Middle School kid designed them and GW took the design and made molds. I have always hated the blood letters. I thought the pewter ones looked better with the wild manes. They were all muscle and scary as hell where as these....dont strike fear they look goofey. I wish they made plastics of those pewter blood letters but switched them to swords instead of the crap they put out.
The Tzeench stuff looks great to me I have no complaints. The nurgle stuff is borderline goofey but thats a trait of Nurgle so it fits. Slaanesh looks fine I like that there are no longer exposed 6 breasted deamonettes. I had no idea how GW sold those when young bloods play.
These are just my opinions I could be wrong.
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I have always hated the blood letters. I thought the pewter ones looked better with the wild manes. They were all muscle and scary as hell where as these....dont strike fear they look goofey.
My opponents would disagree with you about the scary part.. especially when 60 of them deepstrike next to the main marine battle line. They can afford to take casualties lol
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They are up GW's site! They all look cool, other than the khorne cannon. Really excited!
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I have always hated the blood letters. I thought the pewter ones looked better with the wild manes. They were all muscle and scary as hell where as these....dont strike fear they look goofey.
My opponents would disagree with you about the scary part.. especially when 60 of them deepstrike next to the main marine battle line. They can afford to take casualties lol
Oh dont get me wrong im sure play wise they can be terrifying! I just mean the Models look a little Derpy to me thats all. The giant mass of deamon muscle with an axe and the emblem of Khorne on their fore head looked more intimidating to me. These things remind me of the Xeonomorph from Alien.
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I've only quickly glanced through this thread. Are they for sure re-doing the greater demons?
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Rumor has it, yes chase. But it is still a big rumor. All I can say for now is this:
KHORNE DAEMONS ON HARLIES!
"But that guy sucks..." "Yeah, but hes a demon on a motorcycle, your logic is invalid"
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Oh dont get me wrong im sure play wise they can be terrifying! I just mean the Models look a little Derpy to me thats all. The giant mass of deamon muscle with an axe and the emblem of Khorne on their fore head looked more intimidating to me. These things remind me of the Xeonomorph from Alien.
Yea I knew what you meant I was just joking. I agree with the xenomorph look through, every time I glued a head I was always reminded of the Alien movie lol
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http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2013/02/22/rumor-it-deamon-rules/
Some of this makes me very very excited.
Soul Grinders get skyfire? Tzeentch daemons get Divination?
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I've only quickly glanced through this thread. Are they for sure re-doing the greater demons?
Not with this release, the rumors refer to a 2nd wave sometime in the future.
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Chariots are super good in this edition, cannot wait to build a chariot spam list!
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Chariots are super good in this edition, cannot wait to build a chariot spam list!
If these rumors hold true i am definitely not looking froward to all these AP3 torrent flamers
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If these rumors hold true i am definitely not looking froward to all these AP3 torrent flamers
Well its in the HS slot so I'm pretty sure they have AP3 at the minimum, the tzeench chariots are also supposed to have two firing modes, one anti-infantry and one anti vehicle.
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The chariot is more than likely a reflection of the current tzerald build people use but with psyker and some new rules/upgrades. I am interested to see if there is an artifacts section for this book like the last two 6e codexes, as they can add a lot of flavor to the generic hq characters. I also hope they take some lessons from CSM book and try to make every option/god equally viable.
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Oh yeah. One more wishlist thing. Maybe if I type it here it will come true.
I think that Screamers would be perfect if they lost AP2 on their attacks, but gained the ability to assault flyers. That would fit in with how the fluff describes them - big ole "piranhas" that attack spacegoing vessels. And it would give them a specific purpose instead of just being "the best unit against almost everything".
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http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2013/02/22/rumor-it-deamon-rules/
Some of this makes me very very excited.
Soul Grinders get skyfire? Tzeentch daemons get Divination?
the Skyfire would make a lot of sence with Flier spam lately and deamons have Fliers but they can get grounded.
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The chariot is more than likely a reflection of the current tzerald build people use but with psyker and some new rules/upgrades. I am interested to see if there is an artifacts section for this book like the last two 6e codexes, as they can add a lot of flavor to the generic hq characters. I also hope they take some lessons from CSM book and try to make every option/god equally viable.
Um hello, every GOD is viable.. that's what makes a daemon army so thematic. The Tzeench daemonic build has always been shooty, that has always been Tzeench's theme.
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I was speaking more to the fact that some gods outshine the others by a long shot. I hope this codex each god has an equally nice mono build, that way we can see some really nice mono-god and 4 powers builds come out of it.
I hope the loci powers are really nasty so there is a difficult choice between a killy chariot and the IC options for each herald. I also see that daemon princes are moved to the hq slot, I hope they follow the two for one slots or have vastly better builds than the csm (black mace or shit) options. Lastly, make the troops something more than just things to dump on objectives.
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If you go to the GW website, you can see that they are selling monogod starter sets.
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Those one click collections are irritating. "We think you are too dumb to notice that the price is just the cost of the individual models".
GW thinks their customers are unable to click "add to cart" a couple times.
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I like where this is heading. I don't know a ton about daemons but like just about every other army a fluffy list is not usually a competitive list.
I'd love to see a mono-god army across the board from me and if the codex has a way to reward the player for taking a mono-god fluffy list all the better
Those one click collections are irritating. "We think you are too dumb to notice that the price is just the cost of the individual models".
GW thinks their customers are unable to click "add to cart" a couple times.
you ain't kidding, the most annoying thing is GW are complete morons when it comes to sales. If they made the bundles actually attractive by even cutting 5% off the total price they would easily double the amount of those bundles they've actually sold
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So they'd sell 2 bundles? I don't think anyone buys them. But if you guys think thats cool, you should buy three stormtalons for the price of 3!
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So they'd sell 2 bundles? I don't think anyone buys them. But if you guys think thats cool, you should buy three stormtalons for the price of 3!
Pretty much,
on a smarter side of things forgeworld has been doing bundles lately
for example six 5 man tac squads, 3 weapon sets and a command upgrade set for 160 sterling
or 3 Contemptor dreads and 6 weapons for 120 sterling
They don't save you a ton, 20 sterling and 24 sterling respectively (about 30 and 37 respectively american dollar) frigging conversion rate....
The point is they save you money, and they're not for everyone because "hey maybe i don't want those weapons that come with that dread bundle" but i guarentee they are selling the bundles for the simple fact that even it it saves you 5 bucks you will have people jump on it because a deal is a deal
GW are idiots. their "bundles" don't save you anything and therefore are unattractive. Yes i know their sales are up despite the 20% price hike they gave to everything last June but if they keep up sticking it to their customers they are going to price a lot of people right out of the hobby who don't have disposable incomes.
smarten up GW
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"But that guy sucks..." "Yeah, but hes a demon on a motorcycle, your logic is invalid"
LOL. He really does suck though.
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More rumors from Faeit
The new Chaos Daemons are going to have some randomness thrown into them, in the form of the Warpstorm table according to the latest White Dwarf battle report and current rumors. This was found on GW fanworld and posted up across the forums. Thought I would share it.
I am not sure whether this is a fantasy version or for 40k. It appears for fantasy with Wardsaves listed, but I cannot imagine that the 40k version will look much different. Rumors have it that this table is to be rolled for every turn.
via sninsch on Warseer
from gw fanworld:
warpstorm table:
2: all units take a d. instability test
3: one daemon char tests on Leadership with 3D6 and takes wounds like d.instability
4: all daemons -1 ward save
5: affects enemies and nurgle units, through a D6 on a 6 use 5" template S4, DS:
6: affects enemies and tzeentch units: on a 6 D6 hits with S4 DS:3, poison, ignore cover
7: nothing
8: affects enemies and khorne units: on a 6 D6 hits with S6, Ds:-, ignore cover, rending
9: affects enemies and slaanesh: 3" template S8, Ds3
10: +1 wardsave for daemons
11: enemy psiker test on Leadership with 3D6, if failed he dies and a new herold is born
12: a new core unit of is summoned, 2D6+3 models
some of that randomness is quite crazy, and if the daemon player does indeed have to roll this every turn i wonder if it will drive away more competitive gamers who don't build army lists that have a lot to do with chance and luck.
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OK, I get it, they're demons, but why does GW think more random = more fun?
#11 especially bothers me. I think ld 10 fails on 3d6 ~ 50% of the time. So we're just going to randomly take away enemy characters now? That's not cool. I don't know why anybody would ever think that is cool. Look, the demon players signed up for this random crap, but his opponent didn't.
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OK, I get it, they're demons, but why does GW think more random = more fun?
#11 especially bothers me. I think ld 10 fails on 3d6 ~ 50% of the time. So we're just going to randomly take away enemy characters now? That's not cool. I don't know why anybody would ever think that is cool. Look, the demon players signed up for this random crap, but his opponent didn't.
#11 scares me as well, all i can hope is the 40k version of this is different. All of these are very "open ended" as well, ok so it says "enemy psykers must take a save on 3d6" which psyker? all of them? one chosen by opponent?
a random thing that happens every turn an has an excellent chance of wiping out a 275 pt draigo or 225 pt Mephiston? obviously extremely overpowered and i can only hope this is not a final draft, guess we will see soon when the codex hits
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That is the 40k version. or a BS version. Fantasy has no "cover saves" or psychers, no abilities like "rending", poison only matters on a to hit roll, rather than to wound.
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SO it'll all be fine if we just played fantasy, Keith?
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I think it will all be fine once we have the book in hand.
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Its fake, it references both ward saves(fantasy) and pyskers(40k) in the same chart. Faiet is a BS site anyways.
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Faeit is just a rumor aggregate. For CSM they were pretty good.
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Many of the current rumors are translated from several European languages. I imagine that's how "ward save" made it into things.
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I think it will all be fine once we have the book in hand.
This
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Bullshit, dudes. This is the BG forum. Either things WILL CHANGE FOREVER FOR THE WORSE AND 40K IS GOING TO BE TERRIBLE or YOU ARE A DOUCHEBAG AND I WILL NOW SPEND THIS THREAD DISCUSSING IT. There is no "things will be fine" option.
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Damn, I have been terribly misinformed...... :'(
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Bullshit, dudes. This is the BG forum. Either things WILL CHANGE FOREVER FOR THE WORSE AND 40K IS GOING TO BE TERRIBLE or YOU ARE A DOUCHEBAG AND I WILL NOW SPEND THIS THREAD DISCUSSING IT. There is no "things will be fine" option.
Troll much?
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I was going to agree with Bill.
Then, 3 new replies have been posted!
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Here are my previous post's missing smiley faces. ;) :) 8) 8) ;D ;D ::) >:( :D ;) :'( ;D :o ::)
There. That should hopefully clear things up for those who wanted it to be anything more than a joke.
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Here is a more complete and far better translated copy of Daemons rumors.
#11 still scares the shit out of me and will make be seriously reconsider taking expensive HQs that are also psykers
A massive rule dump has been made. The translations for them are below, as well as the original text.
This all comes to us via Bell of Lost Souls from GW Fanworld
English Translation
via Norman Mach
The old placement of the army is gone.
No flyers, but flying MCs.
Demons belong to a god and have hatred to demons of an opposing god. Furthermore a Slaanesh Herald for example can't joint nurgle demons.
Khorne: Furios charge, HoW with chariot is S7
Tzeentch: +3 on Ld for casting PSI, reroll of failded inv. saves of 1
Nurgle: Shrouded, slow (don't remember the english rule name), every unit consisting just of Nurgle Demons counts equiped with defence grenade
Slaanesh: Rending and fleet, Slaanesh-only unit runs D6+3". Slaanesh cavallerie runs 6" more. Vehicles (no walker) move 3" more in the shooting phase.
Demonic Instability
Units with these rule can't be joined by a model without these role. Unit pass every Ld., pinning or fear test. If the demons are loosing a CC they must test with 2D6. The difference between mod. Ld and dice roll is the number of additional wounds without saves!
Double 1: Every lost wound in this phase is restored. Every removed model comes back.
Double 6: Remove the whole unit.
Warlord:
1) Every CC weapon of the warlord gains instant death.
2)Warlord and unit has hatred against everyone
3) As long as the WL is alive every enemy gets -1 for fear tests
4) Friendly units choosen from these codex in 12" of the WL can reroll failed demonic instability tests
5) As long as the WL is alive you can reroll every roll on the warpfire table
6) As long as the WL was on the table at the beginning of the turn, every unit with the rule demon (including from Codex: Chaos) coming via deepstrike won't scatter if the first model is placed in 6" of the WL
Warpfire table
Is only active when demons are the main army. Role 2D6 at the beginn of the demon shooting phase and apply the result.
2) Every unit with demonic inst. (friend and foe) has to test for it
3) Choose randomly one character with demonic inst. rule. Test with 3D6. Wounds can only applied to the character.
4) Every unit with demon gets -1 for inv. saves until next roll on the table
5) Roll 1D6 for every unit not in CC which contains at least one model with the sign(?) of nurgle or demon of nurgle. If you roll a six place the 5" template on the model of the unit and scatter as normal. S4 AP5 for friend and foe, ignores cover.
6) Like Nr. 5 just for Tzeentch. D6 hits with S4 AP3. Ingores cover, poison (4+), vehicles get a hit at side armour.
7) Nothing happens.
8) Roll one D6 for every Khorne unit or enemy unit not in CC. On a six - D6 hits with S6 AP-. Ignores cover and rending, vehicles get a hit on the side armour.
9) Roll one D6 for every Slaanesh unit or enemy unit not in CC. On a six - place 3" template. Every unit (friend and foe) gets one hit for every model with S8 AP 3. Count as barrage weapon.
10) Every demon gets +1 on the inv. save.
11) Choose random one enemy Psyker (no vehicle, no demon, must be on the table). Has to take Ld test with 3D6, if he fails, he will be removed. Place a new herald of your choice without upgrades within 6". Not allowed to charge.
12) Place instantly a new unit with 2D6+3 demons (Bloodletters, pink horrors, demonettes or plague bearers, your choice) via deep strike,
Demons have 6+ armour, some have better saves (blood demon has 3+).
Blood demon no eternal warrior. The skulltaker(?) has eternal warrior and 3+ armour. Skarbrand and Karanak don't have eternal warrior. Lord of Change is Mastery Lv. 2 (divination and change(?)) and flying MC.
11 to15 pink horrors generate two warppoints, 16 to 20 horrors three warppoints. Kairos has a 4+ inv. save. Each of Kairos heads is a Lv. 4 Psyker. Both heads knew every change spell. In addition gains the right head on power from pyro and one divination. Left head - one pyro and one telepathy. Have to decide which head you use these turn. Can reroll one D6 every player turn (even from 2D6 or 3D6).
The blue Tzeentch demons are no psykers, but can use one power from the rulebook rolled with the dice without psy test.
Changeling in basecontact can replace one his stats (WS, S, T, I and/ or A) with one the enemy.
Big plague demon has mastery lv. 1 and plague and biomanty.
Nurgle slime beast can charge in the enemy phase! Ku'Gath can give wounds back to Nurgle Swarms.
Epidemus and his special rule
Count every unsaved wound caused by a demon of nurgle (friend and foe). Count even lost wounds saved by fnp or reanimation protocolls. Every Nurgle unit in 6" of Epidemus gains following bonus (cumulative)
7+: +1 strength
14+: +1 toughness
21+: poison (2+)
28+: fnp (4+)
Keeper of secrets has prefered enemy Eldar/ Dark Eldar. Mastery Lv. 1 telepathy and Slaanesh party lore.
The mask can reroll every failed inv. save. Has different dance.
There are chaos furies (maybe chaos harpyies in english).
Flame weapon of tzeentch - SR warpflame. At the end of every phase a unit with an unsaved wound caused by it has to make a Toughness test. Fail - D3 more hits withour armour or cover, passed - gains fnp 6+. If the unit has already fnp it be better by +1.
A unit hit by a skullcannon can be charged withount Ini loss caused by difficult terrain.
Axe of Khorne: Instant death by a to wound roll of 6.
Mutated warpsword (Tzeentch) If the bearer kills an enemy Character or MC roll a D6. On a +2 it be replaced with a chaos spawn.
Warp...(Tzeentch): A character or MC killed by the staff of change will explode. Every unit in D6" will gain D6 S5 AP- hits.
Plagueweapon: Models with one unsaved wound caused by these weapon have to pass a Toughness test or will loose another wound (no armour or cover).
Sword (Slaanesh). Like plagueweapon, but with Ini test.
A lot of characters don't buy equiment. They buy gifts in three different levels for points. What exacly these gifts are will be choosen random (D6). Roll at the same time as for the Warlord trait. One model can't have a gift twice (reroll), but you can have a gift more than one time in your army. You can replace one of the gifts with the 0. You gain a weapon or artefact for it (just one example given in the german text - Blade with Ap2, mastercrafted and special weapon).
Skarbrand or Blood Demon make demon princes of Khorne to Heavy Support instead of HQ.
Kairos and Lord of Change do the same for Tzeentch.
Ku'Gath and Big Nurgle demon for Nurgle.
Lord of Secrets does it for Slaanesh.
Damonprince 145 points, has to choose one god:
Khorne 15p.
Tzeentch 25p.
Nurgle 15p.
Slaanesh 10p.
Can be a flying MC for 40 points.
Up to 50 points for gifts (Lv. 1 gift 10p. Lv. 2 20p. Lv. 3 30).
Demon Prince not can be a psyker (not Khorne)
Mastery Lv. 1 25p.
Lv. 2 50p.
Lv. 3 75p.
Heralds counts only as a half HQ choice. They have special presences. which can be upgraded and give the unit a bonus.
Icons can be upgraded for unique effects and instruments can get more units out of reserve and give you rerolls on the warpstorm table.
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#11 still scares the shit out of me and will make be seriously reconsider taking expensive HQs that are also psykers
Unless you're GK player, and then those are all ya got. (well, except for barebones Inquisitors) Tyranids have it almost worse.
Yeah, yeah, I know, let's all weep for the poor GK player. /sarcasm.
Point is, if true, it's just bad game design. Generally speaking, all this random, let's throw dice in the wind stuff is bad game design, except in very limited, exact circumstances (most times with Orks, it's been ok) and we've seen a whole lot more of it.
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More accurate more detailed translation
Daemons
Daemon belong to a specific god and have USR Hatred for their opposing god (Nurgle/Tzeentch, Khorne/Slaanesh). Herald of one god cannot join a unit from another god.
Khorne USR: Rage, Re-Roll Charge distance
Tzeentch: +3 LD for Psykic tests, Re-Roll Saves of 1
Nurgle: Slow and Purposefull, Shrouded, Defensive Grenades
Slaanesh: Rending, Move thru Cover, +3” to run distance for infantry, +6 “to run distance for cavalry (only if the whole unit is cavalry), +3” Flat out for chariots
Daemonic Instability
Units with this USR may not be joined by units without this USR. Unit passes all Fear, Pinning and Moral tests. If a Unit with this USR looses in Close Combat, it must test for Instability on 2D6.
If the test is failed, the Unit takes wounds equal to the difference between its LD value and the roll.
If you roll Double 1, all wounds lost in this combat are restored. Place lost models back on the table
If you roll Double 6, the whole unit is removed from play.
Warlord Table
War Lord Table:
1)Warlord gains Instant Death USR
2)Warlord and his unit gain Hatred (Everything) USR
3)As long as the War Lord is alive, your opponent test for Fear at -1 LD
4) As Long as the War Lord is alive, units within 12” of the War Lord may re-roll Daemonic Instability
5) As long as the War Lord is alive, you may re-roll results on the Warp Storm Table
6)Units with the Daemon USR may Deep Strike within 6” of the War Lord without scatter.
Warp Storm Table
The Warp Storm Table is only used when Chaos Daemons are your Primary Detachment. Roll on the Warp Storm Table at the beginning of the Daemon Players Shooting Phase
2) The Storm is receding: All units with the Daemonic Instability USR (Friend and Foe) immediately test for Daemonic Instability
3) Punishment of the Gods: A random character model with Daemonic Instability (Friend or Foe) immediately tests for Daemonic Instability on 3D6. Wounds suffered in this manner can only be allocated to that model.
4) Warp Quake: All models with the Daemon USR suffer a -1 penalty to their saves until the next roll on this chart (friend or foe)
5) Storm of Fire: Roll a D6 for every unit with the Daemon of Nurgle USR or Mark of Nurgle or enemy unit that is not locked in combat. On a roll of 6, place a large blast marker on one of the models in the unit. Scatter 2D6. All models under the template suffer a S4 AP5 Ignore Cover, Pinning hit ).
6) Glorious Rot: Roll a D6 for every unit with the Daemon of Tzeentch or Mark of Tzeentch or enemy unit not locked in combat. On a roll of a 6, the unit suffers D6 S4 AP3 Poison (4+) hits. Vehicles are hit on Side Armor.
7) Calm Warp: Nothing happens
8) The Dark Prince Thirsts: Roll a D6 for every unit with the Daemon of Khorne USR or Mark of Khorne or enemy unit that is not locked in combat. On a roll of 6, the unit suffers D6 S6 AP- Ignore Cover, Rending hits.
9) Khornes Rage: Roll a D6 for every unit with the Daemon of Slaanesh USR or Mark of Slaanesh or enemy unit that is not locked in combat. On a roll of 6, center a small blast marker on a model of your choice in the unit and scatter 2D6. Models under the blast template suffer a S8 AP 3 Pinning hit.
10) Warp Flood: All units with the Daemon USR gain +1 to all saving throws until the next roll on the Warp Storm Table (friend or foe)
11) Daemonic Possesion: A random enemy non-vehicle .Psyker that is not a daemon must pass a Leadership test on 3D6. If the test is failed, the Psyker is removed from play. Place a Herald of a god of your choice within 6" of the removed model. The Herald does not receive any upgrades.
12) Blessing of the Warp: A new unit of 2D6+3 Bloodletters, Pink Horrors, Daemonetts or Plaguebearers (your choice) arrives via deep strike.
All Daemons have a 6+ Armor Save. Some daemons (for example Bloodthirster have a 3+)
Bloodthirster lost EW
Skulltaker has EW and 3+ Armor
Lord Of Change is Level 2 Psyker and Flying FMC
11-15 Pink Horrors generate 2 Warp Points, 16-20 generate 3
Fateweaver has a 4++, Level 4 Psyker. He knows all Tzeentch powers. Right Head knows one power from Pyromancy and Divination, Left Head knows one power from Telepathy and Pyromancy. Declare which head you want to use at the beginning of each turn. May re-roll a single D6 each phase.
Blue Scribes are not Psykers, but generate one power each turn from the main rule book. They can use that power without rolling a psykic test.
The Changeling may exchange any of his stats with an enemy non-vehicle model stat in base contact (WS, S, W, I, A) until the end of the turn
Great Unclean One is Psyker Level 1, Biomancy and Nurgle
Beasts of Nurgle can charge in the opponents turn.
Ku'Gath can regenerate wounds on Nurgling Swarms
Epi only effects Daemons of Nurgle within 6" and tally works based on unsaved wounds caused by Daemons of Nurgle:
7+: +1 Strength
14+: +1 Toughness
21+: 2+ poison
28+: 4+ Feel No Pain
Keeper of Secrets has Prefered Enemy Eldar and Dark Eldar. Psyker Level 1, Telepathy and Slaanesh
The Mask re-rolls all failed saves. It has multiple different dances
There are Chaos Furies
Flamers of Tzeench: If they caused a wound, take a test every turn for that unit. If the test is failed, you take D3 wounds, if you pass the test, you gain FNP (6+)
Skull Cannon: If you assault a unit that has been hit by a shot from the Skull Cannon, you suffer no initiative penalty for assaulting thru difficult terrain.
Axe of Khorne: Instant Death on a roll of 6 to wound.
Mutated Warpknife (Tzeentch): If it kills a enemy Character or MC, that model is turned into a Chaos Spawn on a roll of 2+
Warp Poisoning: If a Character or MC looses its last wound due to a Close Combat attack from the Staff of Change, all units within D6 inches (friend and foe) suffer D6 hits at S5 AP -
Mace of Disease: Models that suffer an unsaved wound from this weapon must pass a Toughness Test or suffer an additional wound. No saves of any kind can be taken to prevent this additional wound.
Many Characters cannot buy equipment, but can buy Minor, Major and Legendary enhancements for a certain point cost. These are randomly determined at the same time as Warlord Traits are rolled. You may have the same enhancements more than once on each character, but the random result can only be applied once to each character. Re-roll doubles. Rolls can be exchanged for special weapons.
Minor Boons
Result 0: (May replace roll on the chart)
Magical Weapon: Etherknife (AP2, Mastercrafted, Specialist Weapon)
Daemon of Khorne may take an Axe of Khorne instead
Daemon of Tzeench may take a Staff of Change instead
Daemon of Nurgle mau take a Mace of Disease instead
Daemon of Slaanesh may take a Ghost Sword(?) instead
Daemon Princes
Skarbrand and Bloodthirster make Khorne DP Heavy Support
Fateweaver and Lord of Change make Tzeentch DP Heavy Support
Ku'Gath and Great Unclean One make DP of Nurgle Heavy Support
Keeper of Secrets makes DP of Slaanesh Heavy Support
DP costs 145 pts
Khorne +15 pts
Tzeentch +25 pts
Nurgle +15 pts
Slaanesh +10 pts
Daemonic Flight 40 pts
May take up to 50 points of gifts
none khorne DPs can buy Psyker levels up to level 3 at 25pts/lvl
Heralds may still be taken 2 per HQ slot. Every Herald adds a Boon to the unit he joins.
Icons can improve certain effects. Instruments can "summon" reserves or modify the result of the Warp Storm Table.
It's interesting that buying wargear upgrades are random and figured out the same time as psychic powers, possibility of certain units being made into heavy support just before the game (guess that is good for "heavy metal" scoring.
the dreaded #11 doesn't seem to be going away, if anything it may be getting slightly worse with the addition of this
Icons can improve certain effects. Instruments can "summon" reserves or modify the result of the Warp Storm Table.
right now there is only about a 10% chance of it happening every turn, if this "modify results" ends up being a +1/-1 that goes up dramatically.
As matt pointed out obviously this is going to be a serious problem for GK and Nids, and will certainly enter into the thinking for me when i'm making army lists depending how popular Daemons get after this.
Like i said before i wonder if all this crazy random random randomness will even appeal to a serious tournament player who doesn't build lists relying on luck or chance.
This is an interesting little tidbit about demonic instability
If you roll Double 1, all wounds lost in this combat are restored. Place lost models back on the table
If you roll Double 6, the whole unit is removed from play.
now granted daemons usually don't lose a lot of assaults but it does open the door for a 10% chance to either get your guys back or completely wipe out an expensive "death star" unit
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http://natfka.blogspot.com/2013/02/chaos-daemon-rules-better-translation.html
I don't mind that, that's fine. Most of it's fine, some it's great. I'm a little worried some of the changes might be too punishing, but it'll be left up to point costs and lot of other things to see if it's competitive, or not.
The warp storm table seems a lot more bad than good for the demon player. But that doesn't keep # 11 from pissing me off.
Chances of getting #11 are 1 in 18, I believe. (it's 1/36 for each comination of dice, and two lead to 11 -- a 5&6 and 6&5, so that's 2/36=1/18) So, 5.55 Percent. But, take that over 5 turns.... (it's 1-.944^5, btw)....you have about a 25% chance of it happening.
So assuming a 5 round game, 1/4 of your games will have that result come at least once. Yes, any gear they have to modify that will make it much worse.
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But my porridge is too hot, but my porridge is too cold :P The only thing I care about is that there will be plenty of codexes for sale on Saturday. I would like a Keeper of Secrets as well as a squad of daemonettes and plaugebearers but the codex is the most important; every time I think about it my mouth goes dry..
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But my porridge is too hot, but my porridge is too cold :P The only thing I care about is that there will be plenty of codexes for sale on Saturday. I would like a Keeper of Secrets as well as a squad of daemonettes and plaugebearers but the codex is the most important; every time I think about it my mouth goes dry..
Keeper of Secrets is a special order only thing now, unfortunately. Otherwise we'll have all of that for as long as supplies last in Plainville on Saturday.
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Keeper of Secrets is a special order only thing now, unfortunately. Otherwise we'll have all of that for as long as supplies last in Plainville on Saturday.
Ahh special order may reinforce the 2nd wave greater daemon theory.. ok thanks Chase, I'll be there 10:00AM with cash lol
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If the DA codex release taught us anything it's that someone knowledgeable on daemons should read that codex day 1 and tell Chase what are going to be the new popular HQs so he can order them up in bulk before GW goes out of stock.
Speaking of which did BGs order of Azrael and Sammael ever show up Chase? I know GWs site has had their availability from 7-8 weeks to 1-2 weeks pretty much since launch
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If the DA codex release taught us anything it's that someone knowledgeable on daemons should read that codex day 1 and tell Chase what are going to be the new popular HQs so he can order them up in bulk before GW goes out of stock.
Speaking of which did BGs order of Azrael and Sammael ever show up Chase? I know GWs site has had their availability from 7-8 weeks to 1-2 weeks pretty much since launch
Yes, this!!
I have 2x Sammael currently. No Azreal.
They might be behind the counter still, so just ask whoever is there.
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On the updside, I kinda think the Azrael model is a little ugly.
Samael remains stupid awesome.
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All of the greater demons will see play, if not in 40k, then in Fantasy. Though I think the Bloodthirster and GUO are probably in the lead.
Beasts of nurgle got much, much better in fantasy. fiends got worse.
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Keeper of Secrets is a special order only thing now, unfortunately. Otherwise we'll have all of that for as long as supplies last in Plainville on Saturday.
Ahh special order may reinforce the 2nd wave greater daemon theory.. ok thanks Chase, I'll be there 10:00AM with cash lol
Probably a good idea. I'm basically positive I under-ordered this time around.
I can't express how much I hate that they keep us entirely blind until 1 week before we have to order... And at that point they give us the names and MSRP of the new stuff. That's it.
What to know all the relevant info about the new stuff? Sorry bro, better crack open the codex!
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It doesn't matter what's good Chase! People will buy what models look best to them. We don't need solid, balanced tournament rules, just great looking models. That is what drives sales, that is what keeps the hobby alive. /sarcasm
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Probably a good idea. I'm basically positive I under-ordered this time around.
I can't express how much I hate that they keep us entirely blind until 1 week before we have to order... And at that point they give us the names and MSRP of the new stuff. That's it.
What to know all the relevant info about the new stuff? Sorry bro, better crack open the codex!
Lol yea I here ya, but GW has changed their policy to protect their business interests. You can almost always bet that all GW's new models will have good stats, since that's what their trying to sell.. either way Daemons will be an all around good release.
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Oof, Fatenerfer.
I have two Keeper of Secrets models I'm willing to part with for store credit. I need to get my balance back up. :)
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Oof, Fatenerfer.
I have two Keeper of Secrets models I'm willing to part with for store credit. I need to get my balance back up. :)
What state are they in? Unopened? Glued? Painted?
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Keeper of secrets looks fine to me. Fateweaver, not so much.
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No offence but why would a grey knight player be worried about warp charts 11 roll? It says random pycher so that means any of their models, like basic troops where as in other armies if they take a pycher it more or less a HQ choice. As i see it, grey knights lose less
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No offence but why would a grey knight player be worried about warp charts 11 roll? It says random pycher so that means any of their models, like basic troops where as in other armies if they take a pycher it more or less a HQ choice. As i see it, grey knights lose less
Since we're working with tranlations, the exact specifics are hard to tell, it could be psyker ICs or MCs. Or maybe the squad counts asa psyker. Or maybe just the justicar. Who knows.
A lot of these things tick me off more in principle, than practicality. I don't think it's particularly OP...but that's not why it's a bad rule. It's a bad rule because I can't ever picture it happening and the opposing player seeing it as "fun", outside those players who really are there just to roll dice and see what random crap happens.
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I have two Keeper of Secrets models I'm willing to part with for store credit. I need to get my balance back up. :)
What state are they in? Unopened? Glued? Painted?
Both fully assembled and painted. I'll probably someday regret unloading these, but I have such little time these days...
(http://i48.tinypic.com/2w7r9s7.jpg)
(http://i45.tinypic.com/el2xhv.jpg)
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Wow Ben those models are awesomely painted! You are talented o' king of kings.. and such an offer only a mad man could refuse. But ya see I'm building an army from scratch and my painting isn't great, so I can't have one beautiful model surrounded by a sea of shitty models.. no no.. they all have to look shitty. ;D
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Wish I could take the credit. Second-hand models looking for a third-hand. :)
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We got seriously shorted on certain Demon units.
Herald of Khorne, Herald of Slanesh, and Plaguebearers didn't ship.
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I got to read screen caps of all the pages. You are lookin at one happy daemon player!
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Me too. :)
Not done yet, but I could see building a Khorne list.
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This codex is much more how Daemons should be than the old codex. Crazy, unpredictable, unsafe, cool... I am pretty excited...
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Fateweaver is so strange that I have no idea whether he/she is any good or not... that's a good thing. I think that his new version of the reroll power is of course nowhere near as powerful as the old one, but it's about 10 times as fun. And I believe Ben actually predicted the existence of this power... very cool. I think it might be sneaky great. A brother corbulo that can be activated once per turn... that is just so interesting...
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We got seriously shorted on certain Demon units.
Herald of Khorne, Herald of Slanesh, and Plaguebearers didn't ship.
A lot of people got hosed. Hobby Bunker didn't even get their shipment, Pandamonieum only had Heralds of Nurgle, the Fly Drones, the Khorne Cannons, and a Chariot of Tzeentch.
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I got to read screen caps of all the pages. You are lookin at one happy daemon player!
580 points for a tricked out Khorne herald on a throne with Rage bubble, 2 20 man bloodletter units gives around 130 attacks at Str 5/AP 3 on the charge.
COMEDY.
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580 points for a tricked out Khorne herald on a throne with Rage bubble, 2 20 man bloodletter units gives around 130 attacks at Str 5/AP 3 on the charge.
COMEDY.
They could already do that last codex, but now they cheaper and need the throne to pull that off.
The Soulgrinder is completely amazing, has a battle cannon/rail gun , skyfire, and power claw. it will literally kill anything on the board.
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Soo....what are we thinking of the new blood crushers, Bill?
Personally, blood crushers, and to a lesser extent soul grinders, would be my only reason to start this army.
Soul grinders look to have disgusting stats, OP even, but bloodcrushers.....eh?
So we're going from t5, 2 wounds, 3+ save.....to t4, 3 wounds, no save to speak of save the demon save. No longer eternal warrior. Yeah, they're cavalry now, but that looks way, way more squishy. They actually could be the worst unit in book, now. (well, except for furies. I don't know what furies are for, but at least they're cheap)
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IMHO, Bloodcrushers were nearly useless in 6th edition in the old book. If a unit is expensive, has no gun, and isn't fast, it's tough times for that unit.
I predict that bloodcrushers will now see a resurgence. They won't be ubiquitous, but they have a place. Sure, they're easier to kill than before. But it's hard to overstate the difference in appliccability between regular infantry and cavalry. Also, not HAVING to deep strike is a huge advantage. Just my 2 cents.
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I think people forget that point for point, Bloodcrushers NEVER did more damage then Bloodletters. With that said, the new codex trades survivablity for speed.. they are fast! Also remember that the army is a horde army now, so shooting at 3 bloodcrushers won't stop the millions of other daemons from pouring into the battle line.
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I wouldn't expect the to do more damage than bloodletters pt for pt....they're an elite unit you're paying a premium, mostly for the speed, and I thought, durability.
I'm really bothered by this. They're solid metal monsters, damnit, they should have something better than 6+ armor (and demon invo).
Anyone else have any thoughts on the bloodcrushers? Because those really would be my main reason for building a khorne army.
Some maths for you:
* It takes 12 bolter hits to kill a terminator (40 pts)
* It takes 6 bolter hits to kill a stock marine (let's say 15 pts)
* It takes 9 bolter hits to kill a marine bike (~22pts)
* It takes about 9 hits to kill a Bloodcrusher (45 pts)
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Bloodcrushers seem really situational. I think they will be absurdly great at killing off marines but obviously be not great against terminators and their equivalents. I think looking at them in terms of killing potential might be where it's at.
Also something to keep in mind with your math, if the terminator was a nurgle terminator, the scale tips a bit and they aren't view as better than a th/ss terminator. That being said, if bloodcrushers die to lasguns, that's a sad day for Khorne.
I'll be using them for sure once my World Eaters get off the ground. Mostly just for a awesome factor.
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I wouldn't expect the to do more damage than bloodletters pt for pt....they're an elite unit you're paying a premium, mostly for the speed, and I thought, durability.
I'm really bothered by this. They're solid metal monsters, damnit, they should have something better than 6+ armor (and demon invo).
Anyone else have any thoughts on the bloodcrushers? Because those really would be my main reason for building a khorne army.
Some maths for you:
* It takes 12 bolter hits to kill a terminator (40 pts)
* It takes 6 bolter hits to kill a stock marine (let's say 15 pts)
* It takes 9 bolter hits to kill a marine bike (~22pts)
* It takes about 9 hits to kill a Bloodcrusher (45 pts)
Yea that's exactly your problem.. this isn't space marines. You are overlooking how bloodcrushers fit with the rest of the army. For 800 points you can field 80 bloodletters, with more then enough points for masses of bloodcrushers and even a khorne thone/thirster. If you play the army right then you should be putting so much pressure on your opponent that they won't know what to shoot. Mono khorne is very viable.
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Yeah, I can get behind 8 pt blood letters, but it's not really what I want the bulk of the army to be.
I guess a big problem is this is going to be sorta vanity army for me. I think khorne hound stats are great, too, but I can't see using the models. I could probably make something cool out of pitbull models or something, though.
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Well first its 10 pt bloodletters, and if you don't like the hound models you can always use the WoC hounds from fantasy. 8)
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http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer/Warhammer_Monsters/SKIN-WOLVES.html
Skin wolves? they're a little big, ain't they?
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Probably just use SW wolves, paint them red.
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440283a&prodId=prod1460179a
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I think he was talking about the other ones... The GW ones.
I plan on using the old metal Chaos Hounds I have had since... since my LatD days.
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http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440109a&prodId=prod1570038
Yeah, those are better. Twice as many per $25, too.
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I think looking at any daemon unit in a vacuum is a huge mistake. Bloodcrushers are amazing but they need proper support. With the new book; there is so much synergy it is absolutely insane. It's like a warhammer symphony (I know it's corny, but best way to put it.)
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I was just commenting to Ian the other day that it's like GW decided to read a WM rulebook and then wrote C:CD. :P
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I was just commenting to Ian the other day that it's like GW decided to read a WM rulebook and then wrote C:CD. :P
Yes exactly! Which is why I love the book so much. Units alone mostly look blah and most of the army is delicate but when things start working together it gets scary very quickly. Check out the Dark Star FB page to look at the first list I am play testing. Feel free to ask any questions you want.
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I think looking at any daemon unit in a vacuum is a huge mistake. Bloodcrushers are amazing but they need proper support. With the new book; there is so much synergy it is absolutely insane. It's like a warhammer symphony (I know it's Khorney, but best way to put it.)
fixed
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Thank you sir, I lost my head for a moment.
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I think looking at any daemon unit in a vacuum is a huge mistake. Bloodcrushers are amazing but they need proper support. With the new book; there is so much synergy it is absolutely insane. It's like a warhammer symphony (I know it's corny, but best way to put it.)
Ehh.....I love synergy. I see synergies in this book. I don't see any synergies that keep blood crushers form getting shot to bits.
Maybe them getting shot to bits means those 20 bloodletters with Rage get to charge. That's cool. But my shiny juggernauts will still be dead. And it seems like if you were going to do that then the khorne hounds could do it better, cheaper.
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Rather than say anything, we'll see how they do the end of this month....
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I was thinking the 2+ invuln would help them live but what do I know......
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I was thinking the 2+ invuln would help them live but what do I know......
I must've missed something, how do bloodcrushers get 2+ inv?
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Rather than say anything, we'll see how they do the end of this month....
I defer to Keith as my response.
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No, seriously, I'm really curious as to how you get them a 2++. Don't be all "I have a secret plans". The book of true names can get you to 4++, but that's it, AFAIK.
Invisibility can get you a 2+ cover, but that's not an invo save.
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Maybe someone can figure out how to utilize all the Cavalry/Beast options daemons have, in both the elite and fast slots. That doesn't include the Fleet and Flying monsters in HQ and Heavy.. so yea daemons are a highly mobile army. Did I mention they can deepstrike? :o
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Well, I don't that you would WANT to deepstrike too often, because that leaves you with a 3rd turn charge at best. Any of the scouts, beasts and bikes are gonna be able to get a turn 2 charge nearly all the time, anyway.
There's an idea, put karnak in with some blood letters, now the whole pack of 21 can scout.
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Or Karanak in crushers: Synergy!!!
Check my list out in the Dark Star page Matt, I think you will everything you need to get to your answer there.
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Well, I don't that you would WANT to deepstrike too often, because that leaves you with a 3rd turn charge at best. Any of the scouts, beasts and bikes are gonna be able to get a turn 2 charge nearly all the time, anyway.
There's an idea, put karnak in with some blood letters, now the whole pack of 21 can scout.
I'd rather deepstrike half my army then slog up the battlefield. Leave the slogging for the faster units ;D
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Or Karanak in crushers: Synergy!!!
Check my list out in the Dark Star page Matt, I think you will everything you need to get to your answer there.
Yeah, all I'm seeing is cover saves.
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Well, I don't that you would WANT to deepstrike too often, because that leaves you with a 3rd turn charge at best. Any of the scouts, beasts and bikes are gonna be able to get a turn 2 charge nearly all the time, anyway.
There's an idea, put karnak in with some blood letters, now the whole pack of 21 can scout.
I'd rather deepstrike half my army then slog up the battlefield. Leave the slogging for the faster units ;D
EIther way you're looking at 1 turn of shooting. Better have that happen earlier and get your charge earlier.
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I blame you Bill.
I blame you for me finally getting off my ass to make that daemon army I've been putting off since... well the last daemon codex.
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GW is sold out of almost all of the Demon models. This is the first time anything like this has ever happened with them. The rep said they seriously misjudged this launch and that it's as frustrating for him as it is for us.
Doubtful, but fine.
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I was told your rep is given as much info as you guys are. I cant beleive even the cheesy looking models sold out.
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Oh, this is just terrible news for players selling their models for BG store credit. :)
That's really wild that they've sold out like that, though.
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I blame you Bill.
I blame you for me finally getting off my ass to make that daemon army I've been putting off since... well the last daemon codex.
Victory!!
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Bill I noticed there are no giant monsters in your list.... I hope giant monsters can work too, because that is what I have in spades.
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Bill I noticed there are no giant monsters in your list.... I hope giant monsters can work too, because that is what I have in spades.
I hope so too. I was surprised the Soul Grinder and Bloodthirster lasted through the weekend.
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Old bloodthirster model kinda sucks. Surprised they didn't have a new one ready for the first wave.
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Soulgrinder of Nurgle looks damn good. 2+ cover save behind a Ruin or Hill is amazing.
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'til the marker lights.
Seriously, everything I see makes me think "needs more Tau".
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"When all you have is a marker light, every problem looks like a cover save?" :D
Or, "When all you have is a railgun, every problem looks like a tank"? :D
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Typhus looks like a tank.
:P ;D
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'til the marker lights.
Seriously, everything I see makes me think "needs more Tau".
Or auspex for 5pts from DA
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Soulgrinder of Nurgle looks damn good. 2+ cover save behind a Ruin or Hill is amazing.
Agree, Flying Nurgle DPs with shrouded seem pretty cool too.
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No, seriously, I'm really curious as to how you get them a 2++. Don't be all "I have a secret plans". The book of true names can get you to 4++, but that's it, AFAIK.
Invisibility can get you a 2+ cover, but that's not an invo save.
It is not a "secret plan" if it is your reading comprehension.
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GW is sold out of almost all of the Demon models. This is the first time anything like this has ever happened with them. The rep said they seriously misjudged this launch and that it's as frustrating for him as it is for us.
Doubtful, but fine.
Keep in mind the army supports both 40k and Fantasy systems, so that could definatly factor. I will also say they did an AMAZING job with the rule books to boot so yea I'm only half surprised ;) Saturday I was the first one in and bought like half of the new Plague Drones at BG Plainville haha
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No, seriously, I'm really curious as to how you get them a 2++. Don't be all "I have a secret plans". The book of true names can get you to 4++, but that's it, AFAIK.
Invisibility can get you a 2+ cover, but that's not an invo save.
Book of true names gives 3+ inv, but when backed by a Tzeench divination herald it can turn into 2+ rerollable inv..
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;D
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Mystery solved lol. Looks like bloodcrushers aren't that fragile afterall
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I dunno, that's a lot of tricks (and points) in combo to get that 2++ save. I mean, more power to ya, just not convinced it's worth it.
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That Grimoire works well on everything its all about using it on the right units.
Ok that unit of hounds is in the open but they then become a very unexciting option to shoot at when they go from 5++ to 3++.
Its a very solid item in the right generals hands.
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In other news, I've sold out of Drones 3 times and they've only made it to the store once. First order, the stuff I ordered early Monday that isn't even at the store yet, and the order I put in today is already accounted for.
Damn. I guess at least one of the new units is cool.
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Yea just don't give it to fatecheeser haha
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Don't get it. SOOoooougly. I'm just a nrugle hater, though.
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Also keep in mind that Heralds and Champions of Khorne has full access to AP2 weaponry. Yea Bloodcrushers are badass.