Battleground Games Forum
Games Workshop => Warhammer 40K => Topic started by: Loranus on April 07, 2013, 08:06:08 PM
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http://gamingwithahat.wordpress.com/2013/04/07/speculations-about-space-marine-6th-edition-codex/
From my Blog posting it here to see what you guys think. Any thoughts?
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I like the idea of more anti-air and flyers but where was the love when developing dark angels. Their AA is limited to flakk missile launchers at the cost of 25 points each or either of their crappy flyers that no one likes.
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I think Vanilla marines need a little Polish to stay up to par with the current Codecies. I think its very hard to play as Ultra Marines unless you take lots of Terminators or Sterngaurd. The named charecters that turn your chapter into their chapter are pretty much the only way to play competitively with Codex Space Marines.
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I expect instead of the current language of Kantor makes sternguard scoring it will instead get changed to kantor makes them troops to fall in line with the GK, DA way of doing things.
I've seen rumors of a new "suit" that is somewhere size wise in between terminators and dreadnoughts. I kind of expect this to be a Vanilla exclusive.
I would LOVE to see a new dreadnought variant, or at the very least make the Ironclad better
There are also the new rumors floating around of new Rhino variants so i expect to see those as well
I think it's a given that vanilla will have the same "special equipment options" that we saw in DA
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shwnlyns: Ya I feel like Dark Angels kind of got shafted with the Anti-Air their flyer didn't really put a good dent against others.
Grand Master Steve: I agree I feel that infantry are too point expensive for what they do. Make Tactical the same as in Dark Angels and it gives you a ton more options to go with.
Phoenix: The Praetor Warmachine I know about it I know nothing of it supposed new unit may fit your suit rumor. I touched upon the special rules but a lot of Special Characters got introduced from 4th edition codex to 5th edition codex as well as a lot of changes to the ones that existed so I don't want to jump to any conclusions about what they might do atm. The rhino rumours are based around the Land Avenger stuff last I knew I doubt we will see any changes to Rhinos,Razorbacks, or Drop Pods since Dark Angels didn't get anything funky. The Ironclad is still awesome the best Dreadnought in the Game IMHO it just needs some finetuning to put it in a nice position now.
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I can't wait for my army to get shafted.
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Benjamin: If anything Matt Ward won't write the codex since he has a disdain for the Ultramarines.
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All the 6th ed codexes are very solid.
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Honestly, I think vanilla SM are doing just fine right now, ATSKNF is best rule in the book, and Combat Tactics combos just ridiculously well with it. Fall back out of charge range, regroup, and then shoot them back in the face? Eldar or Tau are jealous of that trick.
Oh, and they get 2 Flyers now, just cuz.
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Honestly, I think vanilla SM are doing just fine right now, ATSKNF is best rule in the book, and Combat Tactics combos just ridiculously well with it. Fall back out of charge range, regroup, and then shoot them back in the face? Eldar or Tau are jealous of that trick.
Oh, and they get 2 Flyers now, just cuz.
Disagree. I have a miserable time using Ultra Marines because they lack abilities other modurn codecies have. The fliers were a help but In my experience they dont make that much of a difference. Idf like D.A the pts cost were reduced to open up more options that would be a huge help in the very least.
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The main problem with them is they pay too much for heavy weapons. Other than that, they're pretty great.
Tell me, do you use special characters that have an alternate to combat tactics? Cuz Combat Tactics is pretty awesome.
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The problem with the current codex is the same with all the codexes that have not been updated. To be competition is one build one way. Just like Tyranids you can build the list only so many ways to do any good. The update will give us some flexibility which will in turn make it a little more fun as well as competitive. This is a speculation about what I feel are definitive in the codex. Will we have 3 flyers I think so. Why with storm ravens included I do not see them being dropped out and that picture at the end of white dwarf is not a storm raven at least not a version we have seen. I believe we will see iron hands included., the salamanders chapter master, and the captain of the first company for ultra marines. Otherwise I have no idea what's games workshop is planning outside of how to get my money.
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Uhhh....masses of tac squads work
Bike troops work
Infiltrating Th/SS termies work
Heavy tank shooting works
Sternguard as scoring works
People LOVE techmarines now
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I only own the Dark Angels Codex. do i need to aquire the Space Marine Codex as well?
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No, they are separate armies Noah, only get the space marine book if you want to play them, or to just learn their rules... Or to bask in the awesomeness of space marines (the fluff can be pretty great!)
Can I inquire why tech marines are loved now? I always liked 'em, but how else are people using them?
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I really should have said thunderfire cannons, not techmarines.
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The main problem with them is they pay too much for heavy weapons. Other than that, they're pretty great.
Tell me, do you use special characters that have an alternate to combat tactics? Cuz Combat Tactics is pretty awesome.
no i use generic Ultramarines. No special charecter to displace CombatTactics because that would not make them Ultra Marines any more. 5pts for a Plasma cannon doesnt seem over priced to me. Missile Launchers and Multi Meltas are free so how is that expensive?
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Uhhh....masses of tac squads work
Bike troops work
Infiltrating Th/SS termies work
Heavy tank shooting works
Sternguard as scoring works
People LOVE techmarines now
The Vanilla Marine Tactical Squads are the Worst Troops in the Game for their points. A 10 man squad before any upgrades or Heavy weapons is 170 points 30 points less than a Terminator squad. Give them a Rhino they cost more than your 5 man Terminator Squad at 205 and while they are moving only 2 guys get to fire.
Bike troops are ok but even then they are expensive to put on the field and they lack all the nice tools that Ravenwing has and are just as susceptible to plasma and missiles only getting a 5+ cover if they moved and are terrible in assault.
Infiltrating Termies cost 395 points to begin with Shrike is 195 points you lose combat tactics and gain fleet. You have to go second to be able to assault with them on your first player turn and the enemy gets a free round of shooting into them unless you have them completely out of LOS and even then they probably will have something to take care of them. They are either going to be Dead or severely hampered to try and assault then. they are too big of a target and worth too much.
Heavy tank shooting you need to elaborate on this one for me because I figure you mean putting 3 Predators on the table. I could be wrong they just don't pump out the shots you need to do anything or they get too expensive.
Scoring Sternguard are great and ya its decently competitive. I have no arguments here.
Thunderfire Cannons are Decent they are a hit or miss in the literal sense. You have them they work great on mass infantry but they don't work on elite troops or vehicles and sometimes they just whiff.
But you're naming units that do well we have nothing to really support them. You take Sternguard you have no Terminators or dreadnoughts. You take Thunderfire Cannons you have no real Anti-Tank since your Heavy Support is taken up. Fast Attack only has the Storm Talon and bikes and both are kind of squishier than we like them to be atm.
They are Decent but I don't see anyone playing them never mind winning with them they are just so mediocre right now and don't have any flavor they are just Vanilla.
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these are all very true points. I dont use any of the mentioned special tactics and I end up with smoking boots. The Flag Ship space marine chapter just isnt that great
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Wow this is good discussion, I'm learning the science of the Space Marine codex.
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Does a 10-man vanilla tac squad get any special/heavy weapons for free for being 10 men?
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You get 1 Missile Launcher, Heavy Bolter, or Multi-Melta as Heavy Weapons for Free and a Flamer for a Special weapon for Free. But you need to be 10 man to even have the choice of anything.
Competitive HQs in the Codex as of Right now Kantor and Vul'Kan.
Kantor removes combat tactics and in return makes Sternguard Scoring as well as the rest of your Army Stubborn and is a Walking Banner himself giving +1 Attack to all models within 12" of him. He has an AP 4 Assault 4 Str 4 Storm Bolter shot at BS5. A power Fist and a 4+ invulnerable. At 175 points he is worth every point.
Vul'Kan Removes Combat Tactics as well but Twin-Links all Flamers,Heavy Flamers, Meltas, and Multi-Meltas and Master Crafts every Thunder Hammer in your Army. He has Artificer Armour for a 2+ A Dragon Scale Cloak for a 3+ invulnerable. A Heavy flamer and a Master-Crafted Relic Blade which resolves its Attacks at STR 6 no matter the STR of the wielder at AP3. Digital Weapons as well. Hes a Monster in Close Combat but just the huge buff twin-linking everything makes it worth it if you build around him.His points 190 but you can't gear a Captain like him for that many points and the buff.
Every other Named HQ just isnt worth the Points Lysander is 200 points just to reroll bolters,Heavy bolters, Storm Bolters, and Bolt Pistols in his Unit. He has good wargear not worth it.
Shrike gives Fleet and allows you to infiltrate his Unit at 195 points.This used to be good when he could assault first turn by using his Jump Pack and Running and then assaulting with a Squad of Assault Marines but now its just not worth the points.
Khan I could see potential for him. But hes 160 points to give Outflank to your army and another 45 point to put him on his Bike in which he got Fleet and Could run. His rules dont work in 6th now since Fleet doesnt let him charge after Running.
Cassius is a Chaplain with a Master Crafter Combi-Flamer,Feel no Pain, and Hellfire Rounds(2+ to wound always). If your thinking of a Chaplain in power armour and can spare the extra 25 points take him instead of a normal chaplain.
Tigurius is/was Awful for his High Point Cost and the Awful Powers Space Marines Have. No Invulnerable save and basically Psyker Mastery Level 3. His saving grace would be the ability to reroll all Reserve rolls even successful ones but at 190 Points no Invulnerable save and a 3+ you can do better.
Sicarius I like him he has a lot of cool abilities. But from a Competitive standpoint he doesnt bring much to your army outside of the chance to reroll to seize. He gives a Tact squad Counter-Attack, Infiltrate, Scout, or Tank Hunters. All decent abilities if he could give them to anything but a Tact Squad. His Sword can Instant Kill anything doesnt have Eternal Warrior despite their Toughness. He has a 2+ save and Feel No Pain. As long as he is Alive all other Space Marine Units can us his leadership. 200 Points puts him on the expensive side but he is a Cool Character.
Marneus at 250 points is super Expensive in normal Power Armour. for 15 more Points you give him Terminatour which has a Teleport Homer. Eternal Warrior, Orbital Bombardment, STR 4 AP 2 Assault 2 24" range. God of War while Marneus is Alive everyone with Combat Tactics can choose to pass or fail automatically any morale test they are called to make. Titanic Might lets him Reroll all failed attempts to Wound with Shooting and Close-combat Attacks. He is incredibly but at 265 points and the rest of the codex falling a little bit short he underwhelms in the 2 situations I have seen him in.
I had done a While back a Big in depth write up on how the current Codex would run in 6th edition. http://www.battlegroundgames.com/forum/index.php?topic=4436.msg42283#msg42283 check it out if you want to see my first initial thoughts.
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Yeah, I have been looking to convert a kantor or Vulcan "counts as" for my Ultramarines. They both rock pretty hard. And, you forgot Lysander. I like him, and he might get a conversion too...
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I swore I wrote something for Lysander. At 200 points his stuff is kind of Mediocre to me. in 4th he used to be awesome his Special Rule let you take Every Terminatour Squad in your army and let them come in from reserves all at once. Similar to Deathwing Assault but without the certainty.
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Lysander is 200 points just to reroll bolters,Heavy bolters, Storm Bolters, and Bolt Pistols in his Unit. He has good wargear not worth it.
You're not supposed to buy Lysander for bolter re-rolls. You buy him because he's a 2+/3++ 4W Eternal Warrior with a Master Crafted Str 10 Thunder Hammer. And if you'd like a Stubborn army, he's your bro. He also has Bolster Defenses, increasing a ruin's cover save by 1. For 200 points, in the right list, he's priced really well.
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Bolster Defences welcome to why don't you stay the same between codexes. Works on any Terrain in Dark Angels FAQed in Space Marines for just ruins.
In the right list I think he would do great. Just like the rest I think would be good in lists built for them. I don't think those lists are competitive because of the book as a whole needs a lot of fine tuning for options and abilities.
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In the right list I think he would do great. Just like the rest I think would be good in lists built for them. I don't think those lists are competitive because of the book as a whole needs a lot of fine tuning for options and abilities.
Well, yeah. One would have to build lists around the characters. You just don't plug them in and win.
Anyway, I guess my part of the discussion will be moot in a couple months.
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The main problem with them is they pay too much for heavy weapons. Other than that, they're pretty great.
Tell me, do you use special characters that have an alternate to combat tactics? Cuz Combat Tactics is pretty awesome.
no i use generic Ultramarines. No special charecter to displace CombatTactics because that would not make them Ultra Marines any more. 5pts for a Plasma cannon doesnt seem over priced to me. Missile Launchers and Multi Meltas are free so how is that expensive?
Because you have to have the full 10 man squads to get them. But I was mostly talking about Devastator squads. On tac squads they're good.
Uhhh....masses of tac squads work
Bike troops work
Infiltrating Th/SS termies work
Heavy tank shooting works
Sternguard as scoring works
People LOVE techmarines now
The Vanilla Marine Tactical Squads are the Worst Troops in the Game for their points. A 10 man squad before any upgrades or Heavy weapons is 170 points 30 points less than a Terminator squad. Give them a Rhino they cost more than your 5 man Terminator Squad at 205 and while they are moving only 2 guys get to fire.
They're better than CSM, even with the 3 pt difference. ATSKNF is HUGE. They also get better guns, bette rtransports, and combat squadding.
Terminators, generically, across multiple different codexes, are really pretty bad. I say that as a GK player that has access to 40 pt termies, that are troops, vs ~22 pt Strikes. I would usually rather have the strikes, thank you. I've tried using GKT due to helldrakes, it's really not great. Termies really only work charging out of a LR, I've decided, and that's an entirely different ball game.
10 tac marines are a lot more useful than 5 termies, is what I'm saying, particularly since we're really talking 10 tacs + a rhino.
Bike troops are ok but even then they are expensive to put on the field and they lack all the nice tools that Ravenwing has and are just as susceptible to plasma and missiles only getting a 5+ cover if they moved and are terrible in assault.
When would you not move them? Don't assault with them, duh, that's not what they're for.
Infiltrating Termies cost 395 points to begin with Shrike is 195 points you lose combat tactics and gain fleet. You have to go second to be able to assault with them on your first player turn and the enemy gets a free round of shooting into them unless you have them completely out of LOS and even then they probably will have something to take care of them. They are either going to be Dead or severely hampered to try and assault then. they are too big of a target and worth too much.
Well, this is really an indictment against death stars, which I would mostly agree with (there are a few that work, still, like Draigowing and DE beast packs). But still, this is thing good players do sometimes, I've seen it be successful.
Heavy tank shooting you need to elaborate on this one for me because I figure you mean putting 3 Predators on the table. I could be wrong they just don't pump out the shots you need to do anything or they get too expensive.
120 pts for an AV 13 front tank with two lascannons and an autocannon. That's pretty useful againt most targets and it's quite pts efficient.
Thunderfire Cannons are Decent they are a hit or miss in the literal sense. You have them they work great on mass infantry but they don't work on elite troops or vehicles and sometimes they just whiff.
Here's where I star to feel that we don't use the same words to mean the same things. Hit or miss? You mean like everything in this game that rolls dice to hit? It's 4 blasts for a lousy 100 pts, it's all T 7 and you get a free techmarine in the bargain. That's pretty sweet. I suppose it's favorit targe is indeed Orks but it will work just fine on marines, too. And the game is all about hordes recently, haven't you heard?
Pro players love thunderfire cannons.
But you're naming units that do well we have nothing to really support them.
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Except for the thunderfire cannons, the predators, the tac marines that are semi-good at everything, the melta and plasma wielding bikes, the storm talons and storm ravens that is about twice the air support most armies get. All of which I've taken pains to tell you why they're good.
Look, we all make choices when making a list. You can weight a list in any particular direction. Yes, when you take a predator, that's one less thunderfire you can take, and vice versa. But both are really good choices.
The vanilla SM codex isn't perfect. Basic tac marines look a little expensive compared to Grey hunters and Dark Angels, and their devastators pay too much for the cool guns. But they have really good list of really extensive tools to accomplish almost any sort of task, and the basic troop is useful in almost all situations, and that'sa great thing. There are very, very few units that are just outright bad.
Good players aren't usually looking for the "maximal" unit, that is overpowering in a particular aspect, not necessarily things that are super points efficient compared to other armies (though both things are good). They're looking for tools that let them deal with any particular situation, and let them accomplish the goals of the game, mostly grabbing objectives. Vanilla SM marines have those tools, a lot of them.
They'll get a codex cuz they're space marines, but they don't especially need one.
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I've been thinking about it, and the one big reason I can't see Space Marines at the top of the food chain, even after a codex update, is the proliferation of AP 3 template weapons.
It's a bummer.
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They seem to be doing that on purpose. It's a little bit of a ham-handed way of doing it, but still, as a goal, I think I like it.
For long, long time, 70% of everything has been a marine. SO much so that ap4 has been laughable, because what is that good againt? Nothing, might as well be AP -.
Personally I think it'll be great when 3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3 is actually "average" as a stat line, and 4+ armor and 5+ is "typical".
I mean honestly, that'll never happen. But we could all do with a few less marines around.
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Thunderfire cannons come with Techmarines and are just menacingly good options for the cost.
Its the 1 omission from my DA codex that im peeved about.
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I never said Thunderfire Cannons are Bad and what I meant by is they are Hit and Miss with the army they come up against. We will see what happens with the new Codex. This going a little off topic about what it was originally about so.
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We will see what happens with the new Codex.
And there's your thread summary right there.
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I never said Thunderfire Cannons are Bad and what I meant by is they are Hit and Miss with the army they come up against. We will see what happens with the new Codex. This going a little off topic about what it was originally about so.
How? Worst case it's 4 str 6 shots, which is always useful.
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all i know is, Space marines really need an update soon
Tac squads= not so tactical and use up to many points for less than effective return due to newer armies getting more and more AP 3 weapons and newer armies getting more and more shooting.
Guard= orders for double or triple shots, enough flashlights more than brings down space marines
Greyknights= Can have Str 5 storm bolters plus twice as many heavy weapons as a tac squad
Dark eldar= poison weapons and lots of AP weapons, let alone more heavy weapons
CHoas= depending on dark gods, they are either faster, tougher or just plain better in melee than tac squads+ still can shoot
Dark angels= Cheaper and better options and if i remember, dont need to be a 10 man team to get a single heavy weapon
As for HQ's space marine codex is so far behind on normal and named characters. Their cost and effeicentcy for one is lacking compared to other armies. The same goes for a few of their units.
Assualt/vanguard marines= Just about no codex space marine player fields these any more because if you want jump back melee infitry, you just play blood angels
Terminators= not much played anymore either because now of better options in greyknights, space wolves and dark angels. They are still good, but just being a few points cheaper with nothing special compared to the 3 named before just doesnt drive a selling/playing want
Landspeeders= When was the last non-dark angel player you've seen use one? the reason is because they are to expensive and die to sneeze. Granted 6th edition gave them a cover save for moving, it more or less doesnt help from mass shooting and now with flyers to take up fast slots, whos going to use them?
Techmarines= Besides an thunderfire cannon, no one uses a normal tech marine with servitors
Tanks= rhinos and razor backs are still good for what they due, predators are a bit expensive and need to be kept in cover now, landraiders are not even worth taking. to expensive and with new 6th rules, 4 glances and its gone. Vindicators are still decent but nor widely played and then we have a whirlwind which just about no one uses
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I agree with Jiraiya. Space Marines don't have a Niche right now to make you want to play them outside of fluff.
I learned something interesting and for those who actually read my blog post. I was wrong about that picture being a possible Land Avenger. I guess it has been confirmed that is a Forgeworld Thunderhawk model leaving speculation to what the Land Avenger could possibly be. I wouldn't put it past Games-workshop to make it a new type of Whirlwind that is Actually worth taking since they redid Chaos Dreadnoughts into Hellbrutes.
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Here's what ETC Team America is bringing to Adpeticon next weekend:
Greg Sparks - Eldar / Dark Eldar
Alan Bajramovic - Necrons
Joe Cherry - Chaos Space Marines
Andrew Gonyo - Imperial Guard / Blood Angels
Tony Kopach - Space Marines / Imperial Guard
Brad Chester - Space Marines / Blood Angels
Jon Willingham - Doesn't know, but he likes Turtles
Coach: Mitch Tucker - Not playing
Assistant Coach: Brandon Vallee - Space Marines / Eldar
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Ben Mohlie would kick your ass all day long with vanilla SM. Thunderfire cannons, even, back when they were bad. (Supposedly.)
I honestly believe thunderfire cannons are a little OP atm.
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Yeah, Ben did really well at a couple of our events with Codex: Space Marines.
I believe he played Salamanders. He had some nice looking stuff too.
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Ben tabled my Dark Eldar in 4 turns once with his salamanders. Granted, I was pretty new then, but still, it was much like being locked in a very tight vise.
It seems like SM still have a niche and have access to some goodies other chapters don't get: Vulcan, Cheap THSS termies, a librarian that automatically can take null zone / deep strike power, Thunderfire cannons, Storm Talons, etc.
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seems to me that Space Marines have some of the better flyer options out there with possibly another one on the way. Maybe air superiority will be Space Marines thing.
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Space marines are currently very, very underestimated.
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Space marines are currently very, very underestimated.
SHHHH, Don't tell anyone one!
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This topic got way off point from what it was originally about. It was about what would be in the new Codex. Now it has just turned into Bickering about how the old codex is suddenly super awesome now.
I wish Team USA the best with those lists.
Brad Chester won Adepticon Last year with GK so I think he has something up his sleeve with the Double Power Armor Army. I have a couple Ideas what he may be up to but we will see
Tony Kopach was playing Space Wolves last year. Also winner of 2011. Space Marine and IG are pretty solid I feel like it probably mech in design using templates everywhere.
And Brandon I think has stayed Constant with Space Marines I can't find much mention of his list for 2012 but I think he ran Space Marines with Bikes. I know he was tossing around an Idea of Space Marine and Eldar Jetbikes so I expect Khan and something like that from him.
I think the Space Marines can use an update to bring more options in to them. Yes they seem to be a lot more competitive than I believed but I feel like they do have some glaring issues to deal with right now. I won't be arguing it any further as of this point because it will turn toxic as most of the arguments do on the forum. If you like the original point of this post please keep up with the Blog I will be trying to keep my eyes out for new rumours and anything else I find interesting going on.
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either way, im hoping GW will revive ultramarines to be playable again. Most people who play codex spacemarines play for vulcan, shrike or kantor and sometimes khan but very very few people go ultra marines, and then if they do, they dont use the named characters. What im hoping for is either lower point cost, or make characters like Calgar and cassius playable and with more feel.
I used tigerus during the last doubles tornament, for 230 points, he was decent but hes got no inv saves and only 2 wounds. I had to hide him in the back in cover to keep him alive to keep casting powers, and that just doesnt seem ultramariny to me.
Calgar, kinda sucks now as i think he looses to every named character in CC besides IMperal guard more or less due to he strikes last but doesnt have the saves to live. Normal armor is +3/+4 or terminator at +2/+5
and the rest besides sacarius and telion are just not worth it. So in my opinion, unless the rumors of the 1st company captain is true or they make ultramarine characters better, even with a new codex, its still just going to be for the other chapters that people are interested in
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Agreed Marines lead by a named charecter like Vulcan perform well but vanilla Ultra Marines do not.
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They work just fine without vulcan. Librarians, in particular, are pretty good.
im hoping GW will revive ultramarines to be playable again.
Statements like this make me laugh.
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I really disagree unless you take trick poney units Ultras get trashed. I have an entire company worth of Marines and they are inadaqeute. I guess either A. I need some trick ponies like Sterngaurd, or B. I really have no idea how to run my Ultramarines properly.
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Sternguard aren't really a one trick pony. I use a unit in my Lamenters and they pretty much rise to just about any occasion. I love them.
If you aren't using units like terminators, sternguard, or librarians, you're restricting yourself. Just because you can't crush with nothing but tacticals (which I'm not sure is impossible) doesn't mean the codex is suffering.
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Sternguard aren't really a one trick pony. I use a unit in my Lamenters and they pretty much rise to just about any occasion. I love them.
If you aren't using units like terminators, sternguard, or librarians, you're restricting yourself. Just because you can't crush with nothing but tacticals (which I'm not sure is impossible) doesn't mean the codex is suffering.
Thats the problem, those units are good, while the rest dont meet or atleast work out as well once the new 6th codex's came out. everything else is getting weaker and weaker with the release of new codex's. Hell, very few people use any fast slots except for fliers, and before fliers came out it was the same
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Doesn't Calgar have a 2+/4++ when in terminator armor?
With my Carcharodons, I found 6th to be almost better for them in some ways considering the only vehicles I would ever take were drop pods, dreadnoughts and assault rams. I'm a whore for terminators and well...
Now with 6th, I can drop the expensive ram and take a stormraven and a storm talon and now be better off. Terminators are the bees knees, even tactical ones are.
/shrug.
Speculations:
I would speculate that marines would stay the same price because now ATSKNF is actually better.
Flakk missiles will be everywhere a missile launcher is
(hope) chapter tactics will still be a thing
Still have the cheapest / "best" terminators in the game
More special characters
Another flyer
Some more special anti CSM stuff because of fluff
Vanguard vets not being able to assault turn they come in
The base marine is good but everyone likes to forget that ATSKNF is pretty awesome.
I am pretty sure sergeants will be "free" like in the CSM dex.
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I have a Librian in Termie armor, maybe ill use him more. Im also going to invest in termie squads for my ultras. I just wish my Tactical Squads didnt rely on the elite units as much. A price drop in Tac Marines would be very nice much like the D.A codex. That will allow more room for Elite slots.
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Doesn't Calgar have a 2+/4++ when in terminator armor?
/shrug.
Speculations:
I would speculate that marines would stay the same price because now ATSKNF is actually better.
Flakk missiles will be everywhere a missile launcher is
(hope) chapter tactics will still be a thing
Still have the cheapest / "best" terminators in the game
More special characters
Another flyer
Some more special anti CSM stuff because of fluff
Vanguard vets not being able to assault turn they come in
The base marine is good but everyone likes to forget that ATSKNF is pretty awesome.
I am pretty sure sergeants will be "free" like in the CSM dex.
Yes Calgar keeps his Iron halo so he has 2+/4+ save in his Termi Armor
ATSKNF is in every Marine Codex including Dark Angels and they had a Point Drop on Tactical marines. I wouldn't mind even just getting the part of taking only 1 Heavy or Special Weapon under ten models.
Terminators are Awesome I won't disagree. Are they the best Terminators in the game? Yes, I can see them being the best they just end up being specialized for that cost.
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Resurrecting this thread a bit for some new Space Marine rumors
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2013/07/40k-rumors-space-marine-minis.html
The codex is not Ultramarines heavy. There will be a much broader spectrum of Chapters.
There will be supplements for the more famous chapters: Ultramarines, Imperial Fists and White Scars, and Raven Guard were all mentioned. White Scars are the first out the gate.
The cover of the new dex has apparently got Sicarius on the front, while the White Scar Codex has a bike squadron racing towards the enemy.
Expect to see loads of new weapons and squads. Possible inclusions are:
-Land Raider Terminus (4 las cannon sponsons)
-Larger form of Terminator
-"Big Kit" is a massive Dreadnought that is similar to an oversized Contemptor
Regarding the "larger terminators" - these models are described as being similar in aesthetic to the curving shapes of both the Contemptor and Tau Stealth suits. Bigger than current Terminators - but smaller than a Dreadnought.
Regarding the "big kit" - this model has been described as being the "lovechild of an existing Dreadnought, and a Contemptor - but ENORMOUS. It has also been described as a "Knight" with the following old EPIC images hinted at:
Can't wait to see what this new Dreadnought monstrous creature is going to look like, of course it's probably going to be $120 bucks just like the Eldar one.
The larger terminators sound interesting, maybe they're the terminator devestators that have been talked about forever, or maybe something assaulty
There were some other rumors a while ago about Rhino variants like a "Medic" rhino and such.
All these rumors about SM supplements give more strength to SM coming out in september/october, but i don't know where Black Templars are going to fit in since they've had a lot of rumors recently saying their codex will drop this year.
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Just saying, the space marine codex is fine. Par the course, tac squads and a few things will get point reductions. Then they'll be even better. There is a reason we compare everything to the codex/units.
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Just saying, the space marine codex is fine. Par the course, tac squads and a few things will get point reductions. Then they'll be even better. There is a reason we compare everything to the codex/units.
Oh i agree it's a perfectly viable codex now but it does need an update, i'm looking forward to...
Units getting a price cut as they are currently some of the most expensive in the marine world
ICs making units troops instead of them being "scoring" ie sternguard
the new toys in the form of the aforementioned super dreadnought and super terminators
The new supplement books have potential as well, everyone seems excited for the Tau one, i haven't heard much about the Lyandon one for Eldar. There is also one hitting for CSM soon
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This is from a while back, but here's a take on Space Marines that served Ben Mohile pretty well:
BEN MOHLIE 1000pt List
Librarian: Null Zone, Gate of Infinity [100]
Assault Terminators: 10 terminators, all TH/SS [400]
Troop 1:
10 Marines, meltagun (5), missile launcher (free), Sgt. with Power fist (25), combi-melta(10), teleport homer [225]
Troop 2:
Scouts: 5 scouts, telion, missile launcher [135]
Transport 1: Rhino(35) dozer blade [40]
Thunderfire Cannon: [100]
Total 1000
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BEN MOHLIE 2000 pt List
Vulkan He'Stan [190]
Librarian: Null Zone, Gate of Infinity, combi-flamer [115]
5 Assault Terminators: TH/SS [200]
Dreadnought: twin-linked auto-cannon, twin-linked auto-cannon [125]
Troop 1:
10 Marines, meltagun (5), missile launcher (free), Sgt. with Power fist (25), combi-melta(10) [210]
Troop 2:
10 Marines, flamer (free), missile launcher(free), Sgt. with Power fist (25), combi-flamer(10) [205]
Troop 3:
10 Marines, flamer(free), missile launcher(free), combi-flamer(10) [180]
Fast Attack 1:
Land Speeder: (50) heavy bolter (free), typhoon missiles (40) [90]
Fast Attack 2:
Land Speeder: (50) heavy bolter (free), typhoon missiles (40) [90]
Fast Attack 3:
Attack Bike Squadron: 2 attack bikes with multi-meltas [100]
Heavy Support 1:
Land Raider: extra armor (15), Multi-Melta (10) [275]
Heavy Support 2:
Thunderfire Cannon: [100]
Transport 1: Rhino(35) dozer blade [40]
Transport 2: Rhino(35) dozer blade [40]
Transport 3: Rhazorback, twin-heavy bolters [40]
2000
And here's his 1850 list from a couple years ago. (http://picturepush.com/public/13522408)
Granted these are 5th edition lists, so things have changed quite a bit, but I figured it couldn't hurt to offer them up.
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The biggest change to that list is really rule changes for Transports. Marines need to leave the Rhinos to capture objectives, if the Rhinos are destroyed by Turn 3 anyway. For Marines, I think the list is still solid, translated decently well into 6th.
With the current codex, Drop Pod Sternguard are probably the way to go, especially at 2000.
So much AP 2 these days.... what's a Marine player really supposed to do?
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I hope the god empra will protect us from an awful baby-carrier monstrous creature.
Seriously, the dreadknight is an awful model.
Also, MCs that are robots... It's as if GW hates CSM / has no internal company conversations.
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New Stuff!
Up for release in September is the new Codex: Space Marines.
- There will be 7 Ltd Ed varients. 6 of these will be covers for First Founding chapters, whilst the 7th will have Black Templars on the cover.
- New weapon family: Grav weapons. I believe these wound against the armour save (so terminators would be wounded as if they had a toughness of 2).
- First Founding chapters will be getting a substantial section each to themselves, so hopefully this can be looked as as Codex: Space Marines instead of Codex: Ultramarines. This will also show in a rule called Chapter Tactics, for which the effects depend on the chapter being played.
- There is a new armour type that at first glance looks to be somewhere between a terminator and a dreadnought - looking more closely, it appears to go over the marine's power armour however.
- This new armour can be armed in 2 ways, depending on the user. The devastator version has either a bolter array or missile launchers mounted on the chest armour, whilst the gauntlets can be armed with heavy bolters, lascannons or grav cannons. The assault version has a bolter array or frag launchers mounted on the chest armour, with assault drills mounted on the gauntlets.
- There are 2 new AA tanks. One tank veterans will already be familiar with as the Hunter, armed an AA missile launcher. The other tank mounts 2 tri-barreled turrets instead.
- There is a new tactical squad. Lots of options as you'd expect, but of particular interest will probably be the grav pistol and grav rifle.
- A new plastic Sternguard veteran squad.
- A new plastic Vanguard veteran squad.
- New plastic characters: a captain, a librarian and a chaplain.
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Sounds interesting! So it looks like Black Templars might be coming back into the fold? Since we had a bunch of BT rumors too, we shall see! Unless they are getting some sort of super supplemental book...
I wonder if the new AA tanks might be part of a whirlwind re-cut sprue. Plastic sternguard sounds pretty awesome, I might have to replan the conversions I was doing!
The new type of armor sound like mini dreadknights... which I am, ironically, full of dread about...
But hey, I won't knock 'em until I see 'em!
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Sounds interesting! So it looks like Black Templars might be coming back into the fold? Since we had a bunch of BT rumors too, we shall see! Unless they are getting some sort of super supplemental book...
I wonder if the new AA tanks might be part of a whirlwind re-cut sprue. Plastic sternguard sounds pretty awesome, I might have to replan the conversions I was doing!
The new type of armor sound like mini dreadknights... which I am, ironically, full of dread about...
But hey, I won't knock 'em until I see 'em!
The BT as a cover does sound weird since they keep saying it is going to be it's own codex, but if something like BA or DA get a cover than guess it doesn't mean much
These new rumors about the "larger terminators" sound more and more like terminator devastators
Still excited about the big dreadnought
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I had figured the 6 other covers to be the other founding codex legions, so Ultramarines, White Scars, Iron Hands, imperial fists, salamanders, and Raven Guard.
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I've never played space marines and honestly never thought that they were anything special, dispite them being so popular. They are/were always a jack of all trades army, which is appealing to many, but when you break it down the xeno/daemon races are so fun because they are specialists that excel at one or two skills; as oppossed to the marines that can do everything but half assed.
I think the current Grey Knights codex is the BEST marine codex, like ever. Want terminator troops? No problem. Want Jump troops? You got it. Want to take hordes of inquisitoral forces? Sure thing dude. The Grey Knight codex gave the marine player a way to specialize while retaining an impressive "Halo-like" variety of weapon choices, the best the imperium has to offer.
So in the new dex, hopefully they follow this theme of being able to run 3 or 4 specialist builds while still retaining their iconic theme.
The only thing you can count on the current dex to give you, is the fluffy feel that you are literally in the 41st millenium, and outnumbered and outgunned by the "scary" xeno races that want to destroy the "good guys".
I will say that GWs release rampup is very awesome so we can hopefully see the new book very soon. Also all the 6th ed codexes are pretty awesome too.
But remember you are a badass because your army is "Old School". So until the new codex hits shelves, make sure after you deploy your Ultramarine smurfs, but BEFORE you roll the dice.. make sure you physically drop to the same height as the models and scream... "YOU'RE MY BOY BLUE!!!"
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seeing rumors that Space Marines might be showing up September 7th
Chase, prepare to take my pre-order and for the following...
(http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/shut-up-and-take-my-money.jpg)
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You're my boy, blue!!
Looks like Derek will be eating lobster thoughout the entire month of September
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I'm very glad that you guys seem excited.
For whatever reason, vanilla marines have been one of the least popular armies throughout Plainville's life.
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I bet that will change with this new codex. I don't think GW wants the SM's to be whipping boys... I think that this new codex will be truly awesome in both competitiveness and coolness, just like the last one was when it came out. I think they've probably been working on this one for a while... can't wait to play against it :)
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What I am really excited about according to the rumors is the focus on Each Chapter being different. 1000 Point tournament where you can Bring Salamanders that are actual salamanders instead of Ultrasmurfs with Salamander colors. :D Chase if the Limited Edition Variants are true I will be wanting the Salamanders Version.
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Time to wait for the monthly "hey guys here's whats coming out, tell us what you want" thread
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lol im probaly going to be one of the few who will want ultramarines :D ;D 8)
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New rumor of a new dedicated transport for Space Marines, doesn't sound very solid yet though
http://natfka.blogspot.com/2013/08/space-marine-vanguard-new-dedicated.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Faeit212+%28Faeit+212%29
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A bunch of new details here
http://natfka.blogspot.com/2013/08/detailed-space-marine-rumors-are.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+Faeit212+(Faeit+212)&m=1
another rumor floating around that there is no super dread, it was the forge world mechanicus thing and somebody was confused.
I'm going to be super bummed if there are no new dreads
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We march for Macragge and we shall know no fear!
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BOOM!!!
OK, lets get past rumors, because now I have the actual releases. Very exciting. There is a new Anti-Air tank, with two variants, the Stalker and the Hunter. They look to be amazing releases, and the codex is larger than any other 6th edition codex. 176 pages!!!! Oh yea, Robin Cruddace is the Author.
This is very cool, it looks like Space Marines are here!
Officially until there is an announcement, we still have to classify these as rumors.
via anonymous sources
Space Marine Codex
176 pages!!!!! $58
by Robin Cruddace
Cover pic is a close up Ultra Marine pointing forward into battle
War Zone: Damnos
by Phil Kelly
68pages $33
Space Marine Stalker/Hunter
$65
The three barreled Stalker and the Single large barreled Hunter
Space Marine Reclusiam Command Squad
$90
Includes Razorback 5 man command squad and a space marine chaplin
Space Marine Captain
1 model $30
Space Marine Librarian
1 model $30
Space Marine Strikeforce
39 models $220
Space Marine Centurion Devastator/ Assault Squad
3 models $78
Space Marine Tactical Squad
10 models $40
Space Marine Sternguard
5 models $50
Space Marine Vanguard
5 models $40
also...
Space Marine Centurion Devastator/ Assault Squad
3 models $78
good lord, these things better be amazing with a pile of bits because otherwise forgeworld would be cheaper
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The Centurions must be the long rumored "super terminators" that people have been talking about. Also cool the name is inspired by ancient Rome, this guys will probably be an auto include. The AA Stalker/hunter tanks sound cool too.
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The Centurions must be the long rumored "super terminators" that people have been talking about. Also cool the name is inspired by ancient Rome, this guys will probably be an auto include. The AA Stalker/hunter tanks sound cool too.
I think the only way i would take a Stalker/Hunter thing is if they can fire at ground targets as well or are cheap point wise. I'm not going to pay 100pts to maybe shoot at something in the sky that might not come in until turn 4
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I can't really analyze something that I don't know the rules for, have to wait until September to give tactical feedback.
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More info on the stalker/hunter
via anonymous sources on Faeit 212
The Space Marine Stalker
Comes with a Icarus Stormcannon Array. Both of these turrets can move independently, and can shoot at two targets at once. Both turrets are three barreled guns.
Space Marine Hunter
Fires a Skyspear Missile from a large single barrel.
Both tanks have several side stabilizers and appear to more heavily armoured along the front and sides. (no stats)
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I predict Paladins, but with better guns and w/o Nemesis Force Weapons. I also predict that spamming these will come to be seen as the best way to combat Wave Serpent Spam.
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Looks like the space marines will also get back their gravity weapons
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New tac squads are exciting but I was very much hoping for a new Rhino variant. Seeing all the kool xeno army transports out there make me a little jealous when I set my 35 point rhino on the table and fire its str 4 storm bolter, and I know, power armor armies have razorbacks too but with a transport capacity of 6 I don't find them very useful.
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(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1097992_10200907964718579_952710435_n.jpg)
(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/971932_10200907759913459_1925488524_n.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1000916_10200907759953460_1213344930_n.jpg)
The assault version of these is not blowing my skirts up. heres hoping the shooty version looks cooler
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Wow the new suits look like shit.
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Maybe they are going opposite of the Dark Angels....
New flyer is sooo bad ass looking...but the biggest waste of points.
For Gork's sake, I do not even thing I could make that cool looking by looting it.
Bah, wake me up when da Boyz get a new dex.
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Oh man :( Those suits are terrible.
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Here's hoping someone makes a nicer looking model than thoes disasters.
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FYI... Any model can be modified to look awesome these will need just more attention is all. Lets hope the rules are decent.
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FYI... Any model can be modified to look awesome these will need just more attention is all. Lets hope the rules are decent.
Agreed, it's a moot point that they're ugly if the rules suck and no one uses them
on an unrelated subject, i've now seen 3 pieces of rumors that Black Templar are indeed rolled into the new SM codex...
Comence GW flaming / BT players crying themselves to sleep
The Battle Report in September the September White Dwarf features the Black Templar. This is a very sure sign that the codex is getting wrapped up into the codex somehow, but there are some oddities when reading through it.
I do not have access to the codex. There are several pages of information from the Elite section of the codex shown in the new White Dwarf, and none of these are showing Black Templar specific units from what I can read.
However, listed in the battle report's list (which is a 2500pt) battle, shows the following units being used that are Black Templar Specific
Emperor's Champion
10 Initiates with 5 Neophytes
Another 8 Initiates with a Sword Brother
Land Raider as a troop dedicated transport
The rest of the units look very Space Marine codex
So is the Black Templar wrapped up into the codex? It sure is looking like it.
p.s. the battle is against Chaos Space Marines with Chaos Daemon allies.
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BT dont deserve there own codex a supplement is fine for them.
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Since I never play Space Marines anyway, I might be in the minority here. But it always seemed weird to me that half the codexes in the game essentially share half of the units with very few variations. I mean, there's really no difference between a Dark Angel Rhino, a Space Wolf Rhino, a Space Marine Rhino... why repeat all the same units in 6 or 8 different codexes? I think the only one that is REALLY different is the Blood Angels...
To me, if the Marine codexes are going to overlap by 50% anyway, it sorta makes sense to make them into supplements rather than full codices (now that supplements are a thing). Of course the supplements would have to be much beefier than the existing supplements.
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Not really they share actually very few units. Probably more like 25%. Transports will be transports but if you look at the DA codex it is very different then the rumored SM codex the only thing they share is similar weps and dedicated transports and maybe a tank.
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Also, i hope this is fake because this is the stupidest thing I've seen in a while...
(http://i.imgur.com/MzhTAtG.jpg)
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Meh, people said the same thing about the Chaos hell turkey, but now every chaos player owns at least two ;D
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Hmm, that guy's a little more tolerable than the chain-handed fellows, I think. Still looks like something from GW circa 1992.
Yeah, the models always look better in person than in these grainy photos, but these ones have a LONGGG way to go.
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Been confirmed a fake, whew
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Been confirmed a fake, whew
Whew is right.
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Been confirmed a fake, whew
That's too bad, I was going to name him lego-tron ;D
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Looks like this is the full description, gravity weapons sound terrifying.
Up for release in September is the new Codex: Space Marines.
- There will be 7 Ltd Ed varients. 6 of these will be covers for First Founding chapters, whilst the 7th will have Black Templars on the cover.
- New weapon family: Grav weapons. I believe these wound against the armour save (so terminators would be wounded as if they had a toughness of 2).
- First Founding chapters will be getting a substantial section each to themselves, so hopefully this can be looked as as Codex: Space Marines instead of Codex: Ultramarines. This will also show in a rule called Chapter Tactics, for which the effects depend on the chapter being played.
- There is a new armour type that at first glance looks to be somewhere between a terminator and a dreadnought - looking more closely, it appears to go over the marine's power armour however.
- This new armour can be armed in 2 ways, depending on the user. The devastator version has either a bolter array or missile launchers mounted on the chest armour, whilst the gauntlets can be armed with heavy bolters, lascannons or grav cannons. The assault version has a bolter array or frag launchers mounted on the chest armour, with assault drills mounted on the gauntlets.
- There are 2 new AA tanks. One tank veterans will already be familiar with as the Hunter, armed an AA missile launcher. The other tank mounts 2 tri-barreled turrets instead.
- There is a new tactical squad. Lots of options as you'd expect, but of particular interest will probably be the grav pistol and grav rifle.
- A new plastic Sternguard veteran squad.
- A new plastic Vanguard veteran squad.
- New plastic characters: a captain, a librarian and a chaplain.
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Meh, people said the same thing about the Chaos hell turkey, but now every chaos player owns at least two ;D
I dont... Bleh :P and If they are "required" to stay "competitive" I may try and liquidate my GW stuff... as I cannot afford to keep up with the meta in that case.
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(http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/13578092/640/13578092.jpg) (http://picturepush.com/public/13578092)
(http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/13578100/640/13578100.jpg) (http://picturepush.com/public/13578100)
(http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/13578093/640/13578093.jpg) (http://picturepush.com/public/13578093)
(http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/13578095/640/13578095.jpg) (http://picturepush.com/public/13578095)
(http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/13578096/640/13578096.jpg) (http://picturepush.com/public/13578096)
(http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/13578097/640/13578097.jpg) (http://picturepush.com/public/13578097)
(http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/13578098/640/13578098.jpg) (http://picturepush.com/public/13578098)
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Chase, whats the likelihood of ACTUALLY getting supply to meet demand?
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In Abington? Some chance. It really, really depends on if / how they allocate this time around. I know it's so hard to request things when we know so little about them but it REALLY helps when we're able to give Chris (the GW rep) preorder numbers. When I tell him I already have preorders in excess of the allocation numbers he's been able to get me the stuff (minus the whole Tau thing).
I read that there might be 7 different codex covers though. I'm unsure how that'll go...
Anyhow, Codex Marines is not popular in Plainville though, so you can expect anywhere between some and a lot of my stuff heading that way.
Naturally, GW will claim to have zero info about this when I talk to them on Monday. They won't tell me anything I'm sure.
People that request things early on will certainly get their stuff.
Note: Limited edition books ship on the Friday before they're actually released, meaning they'll show up in the middle of the week FOLLOWING product launch. (example: the limited edition Lizardmen books showed up today in Plainville)
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I think the Ultramarine Centurions looks awesome, its just the yellow ones that look goofy. I guess its all about color scheme and model pose.
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The shooty looking ones look a heck alot better than the melee ones. I may actualy buy some depending on their rules and how expensive they are. The same goes for both the new tanks. Look good but how practical will their use be
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Apparently, the centurion picture does not show the full model. Here is the full picture.
(http://i44.tinypic.com/2d9vl0j.jpg)
A space marine, in a space marine, in a space marine. Where is your god-emperor now?
*Note I did not create this picture*
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Looks like this is the full description, gravity weapons sound terrifying.
Up for release in September is the new Codex: Space Marines.
- There will be 7 Ltd Ed varients. 6 of these will be covers for First Founding chapters, whilst the 7th will have Black Templars on the cover.
- New weapon family: Grav weapons. I believe these wound against the armour save (so terminators would be wounded as if they had a toughness of 2).
- First Founding chapters will be getting a substantial section each to themselves, so hopefully this can be looked as as Codex: Space Marines instead of Codex: Ultramarines. This will also show in a rule called Chapter Tactics, for which the effects depend on the chapter being played.
- There is a new armour type that at first glance looks to be somewhere between a terminator and a dreadnought - looking more closely, it appears to go over the marine's power armour however.
- This new armour can be armed in 2 ways, depending on the user. The devastator version has either a bolter array or missile launchers mounted on the chest armour, whilst the gauntlets can be armed with heavy bolters, lascannons or grav cannons. The assault version has a bolter array or frag launchers mounted on the chest armour, with assault drills mounted on the gauntlets.
- There are 2 new AA tanks. One tank veterans will already be familiar with as the Hunter, armed an AA missile launcher. The other tank mounts 2 tri-barreled turrets instead.
- There is a new tactical squad. Lots of options as you'd expect, but of particular interest will probably be the grav pistol and grav rifle.
- A new plastic Sternguard veteran squad.
- A new plastic Vanguard veteran squad.
- New plastic characters: a captain, a librarian and a chaplain.
If space marines are getting their gravity weapons back then Orks better get theirs back as well.
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I wonder if the captain will have multiple head choices. After all, the chaplin is rumored to have two possible heads. I love that helmet, but it is very "ultramarine."
I wonder what the deal with grav weapons will be. I admit, I don't play much, but wounding a terminator on a 2+ isn't really special, right? Don't meltas do that too? Isn't plasma also wound T4 on 2+? What am I missing? Maybe it's Assault 2, or even rapidfire? Maybe it's good at multi wound situations? Like models wounded are removed from play?
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We don't have all the stats and rules for gravity weapons yet, but they're supposed to be an entirely new weapons family (grav pistol, grav rifle, grav cannon, etc). Also it is rumored that they are blast weapons and leave behind a gravity vortex in the area fired, making that area count as difficult/dangerous terrain for a turn. Their also looks like that their will be a new tactical squad that might specialize in grav weapons.. these are still rumors.
Their is no question that both tanks look amazing, reminds me of the Terran Seige Tank from StarCraft.
And yea, it looks like space marines finally got loyalist obliterators.. ie Centurions ;D The assault ones look like they get some sort of combat drill, the imaginary space dwarves will be jealous lol
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the shooty centurions look much better, but how useful are heavy bolters really. Lascannons seem the much better option but I am hoping that they can carry assault cannons. I try to play Dark Angels aggressive and would love something that can get up into the enemy's face but it seems a defensive play style better suits power armor armies.
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the shooty centurions look much better, but how useful are heavy bolters really. Lascannons seem the much better option but I am hoping that they can carry assault cannons. I try to play Dark Angels aggressive and would love something that can get up into the enemy's face but it seems a defensive play style better suits power armor armies.
i was expecting something BRISTLING with guns... i don't know, still reserving judgment till the rules come out
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I wonder if the captain will have multiple head choices. After all, the chaplin is rumored to have two possible heads. I love that helmet, but it is very "ultramarine."
I wonder what the deal with grav weapons will be. I admit, I don't play much, but wounding a terminator on a 2+ isn't really special, right? Don't meltas do that too? Isn't plasma also wound T4 on 2+? What am I missing? Maybe it's Assault 2, or even rapidfire? Maybe it's good at multi wound situations? Like models wounded are removed from play?
>.> Dreadknight has a 2+ armour save has a Toughness of 6 a Plasma wounds on a 3+. Same thing with a Riptide. If it wounds based off Armour save IG and Ork Boyz will be the most survivable against this weapon. I cant wait to see what it does I dont think it will be as bad as people making it out to be.
Centurions I have some Ideas to make them look cooler. If they are worth the points I will buy some and do some work. It sucks that I suddenly got an entire week off before the Space Marine Release :(. Not going to have any spare money.
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It sucks that I suddenly got an entire week off before the Space Marine Release :(. Not going to have any spare money.
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
;D
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From whatever "40k Radio" is....
Notes on the Space Marine Codex:
1. Centurion "devastator" come with Twin-Linked Heavy bolter and hurricane bolter for 60 pts. You can have up to 6 in a squad.
2. Legion of the Damned have flaming projectiles. All ranged attacks have ignore cover special rule.
3. Black Templars are in the book. They can not take some selections but have access to Centurions, Thunderfires, and so on. They have special rules for Chapter Tactics.
4.Chapter Tactics for the following chapters: Ultramarines, White Scars, Imperial Fist, Salamanders, Iron Hands, and Raven Guard. They have two special rules per choice.
Notes on Centurions:
Centurions can be taken as Elites or Heavy.
Heavy support are the devastator option. They come with twin-linked Heavy bolters and Hurricane bolters. Hurricane can be upgraded to missile and HB upgraded to Twin- Las cannon or Grav-cannon and grav-amp.
Can upgrade to omniscope which gives night fight and split fire special rules.
They can select a Land Raider as a dedicated transport.
Special Rules: Slow and Purposeful, Decimator Protocols(Can fire up to two weapons in each shooting phase), Very Bulky, Chapter Tactics, and TSKNF.
Elites are the assault option. They come with Siege Drills at S9, twin-linked flamers and Ironclad assault launchers. They can upgrade flamers to meltas and assault launcher can be upgraded to hurricane bolters.
Can upgrade to omniscope which gives night fight and split fire special rules.
They can select a Land Raider as a dedicated transport.
Special Rules: Move through cover, Slow and Purposeful, Decimator Protocols(Can fire up to two weapons in each shooting phase), Very Bulky, Chapter Tactics, and TSKNF.
I have no idea what I'm talking about, but that seems pretty sweet to me.
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Seems like a nice toy
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If it wounds based off Armour save IG and Ork Boyz will be the most survivable against this weapon. I cant wait to see what it does I dont think it will be as bad as people making it out to be.
This is wrong, the following is the chance of a model dying if Grav weapons wound based on armor saves and you get your armor save.
2+ is 5/36
3+ is 8/36
4+ is 9/36
5+ is 8/36
6+ is 5/36
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Seems like a nice toy
No lie, I'm going to be basing a lot of my opinions on what Steve D buys from this launch. If Steve D think the new SM stuff is awesome and has to have it, then it's probably awesome overall.
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I'll pre-order one of these.
(http://oi43.tinypic.com/jacsuf.jpg)
/ in before 7th Edition.
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Decimator Protocols(Can fire up to two weapons in each shooting phase),
does that mean enemy shooting phase as well?
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The siege drills look like they will cause some serious pain against monstrous creatures and walkers. Better strength then a powerfist and looks like it will strike in Initiative order too.
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Of course, the suits might BE initiative 1!
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Seems like a nice toy
No lie, I'm going to be basing a lot of my opinions on what Steve D buys from this launch. If Steve D think the new SM stuff is awesome and has to have it, then it's probably awesome overall.
i was unaware my opinion counts for so much since im no great player.
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Space Marine Centurions rules are starting to come out. While I do not yet see a stat line, weapons and special rules have appeared.
Please remember that these are not official yet (codex is not released)
via 40k radio
Centurions can be taken as Elites or Heavy.Heavy support are the devastator option. They come with twin-linked Heavy bolters and Hurricane bolters. Hurricane can be upgraded to missile and HB upgraded to Twin- Las cannon or Grav-cannon and grav-amp.
Can upgrade to omniscope which gives night fight and split fire special rules.
They can select a Land Raider as a dedicated transport.
Special Rules: Slow and Purposeful, Decimator Protocols(Can fire up to two weapons in each shooting phase), Very Bulky, Chapter Tactics, and TSKNF.
Elites are the assault option. They come with Siege Drills at S9, twin-linked flamers and Ironclad assault launchers. They can upgrade flamers to meltas and assault launcher can be upgraded to hurricne [sic!] bolters.
Can upgrade to omniscope which gives night fight and split fire special rules.
They can select a Land Raider as a dedicated transport.
Special Rules: Move through cover, Slow and Purposeful, Decimator Protocols(Can fire up to two weapons in each shooting phase), Very Bulky, Chapter Tactics, and TSKNF.
via GW-Fanworld
1. Centurion “devastator” come with Twin-Linked Heavy bolter and hurricane bolter for 60 pts. You can have up to 6 in a squad.
2. Legion of the Damned have flaming projectiles. All ranged attacks have ignore cover special rule.
3. Black Templars are in the book. They can not take some selections but have access to Centurions, Thunderfires, and so on. They have special rules for Chapter Tactics.
4.Chapter Tactics for the following chapters: Ultramarines, White Scars, Imperial Fist, Salamanders, Iron Hands, and Raven Guard. They have two special rules per choice.
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via 40k radio
Centurions can be taken as Elites or Heavy.Heavy support are the devastator option. They come with twin-linked Heavy bolters and Hurricane bolters. Hurricane can be upgraded to missile and HB upgraded to Twin- Las cannon or Grav-cannon and grav-amp.
If I had an extra $500 or so I'd consider taking as many of these as an army can field and adding Dark Angel allies with a dakka banner for an insane number of bolter shots every turn.
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via 40k radio
Centurions can be taken as Elites or Heavy.Heavy support are the devastator option. They come with twin-linked Heavy bolters and Hurricane bolters. Hurricane can be upgraded to missile and HB upgraded to Twin- Las cannon or Grav-cannon and grav-amp.
If I had an extra $500 or so I'd consider taking as many of these as an army can field and adding Dark Angel allies with a dakka banner for an insane number of bolter shots every turn.
dakka banner is DA codex units only, otherwise I would already be running stern guard with a banner
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i demand more new info!!!! >:(
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i demand more new info!!!! >:(
There was quite a few bits of information floating around over the weekend, and some of it I had not yet posted up here. Just so that readers were getting all the bits that are out there, here are a couple sets from 40k Radio that were not posted up here before.
Please remember that until we get more information, these are still classified as rumors.
Via 40k Radio
https://www.facebook.com/pages/40K-Radio/147396461962884?fref=ts
Most things remained the same. Some units got cheaper vanguard, sternguard, honor guard, tactical marines and some special characters.
Same psychic disciplines and thunderfires are the same and same points.
Kantor is in.
Grav are nasty against heavy armored troops. the roll to wound is based of the armor save. So shooting termies you would wound on a 2+ and all types are AP2.
Lysander is still in there and he is still bad ass but he is 30pts more.
No new shooty HQ. MoF is still in the dex so he's your beat option. No way to make termies troops or scoring.
The only one that deviates in this way is Kantor, he allows sternguard to score. Khan gives bike and dedicated transports in the WS detachment scout.
No bionic rules but Iron Hands have army wide 6+ FNP and It Will Not Die for vehicles and characters .
Centurion "devastator" come with Twin-Linked Heavy bolter and hurricane bolter for 60 pts. You can have up to 6 in a squad.
Legion of the Damned have flaming projectiles. All ranged attacks have ignore cover special rule.
Black templars are in the book. They can not take some selections but have access to Centurions, Thunderfires, and so on. They have special rules for Chapter Tactics.
Chapter Tactics for the following chapters: Ultramarines, White Scars, Imperial Fist, Salamanders, Iron Hands, and Raven Guard. They have two special rules per choice.
Centurions can be taken as Elites or Heavy.
Heavy support are the devastator option. They come with twin-linked Heavy bolters and Hurricane bolters. Hurricane can be upgraded to missile and HB upgraded to Twin- Las cannon or Grav-cannon and grav-amp.
Can upgrade to omniscope which gives night fight and split fire special rules.
They can select a Land Raider as a dedicated transport.
Special Rules: Slow and Purposeful, Decimator Protocols(Can fire up to two weapons in each shooting phase), Very Bulky, Chapter Tactics, and TSKNF.
Elites are the assault option. They come with Siege Drills at S9, twin-linked flamers and Ironclad assault launchers. They can upgrade flamers to meltas and assault launcher can be upgraded to hurricne bolters.
Can upgrade to omniscope which gives night fight and split fire special rules.
They can select a Land Raider as a dedicated transport.
Special Rules: Move through cover, Slow and Purposeful, Decimator Protocols(Can fire up to two weapons in each shooting phase), Very Bulky, Chapter Tactics, and TSKNF.
(Centurions) Two plus save no invul. Toughness and strength of five.
Also you can not deep strike the centurions.
Most things remained the same. Some units got cheaper vanguard, sternguard, honor guard, tactical marines and some special characters.
Same psychic disciplines and thunderfires are the same and same points.
Kantor is in.
Legion of the Damned are 25 points a model.
No Vows (Black Tenplars), just chapter tactics.
Grav are nasty against heavy armored troops. the roll to wound is based of the armor save. So shooting termies you would wound on a 2+ and all types are AP2.
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If it wounds based off Armour save IG and Ork Boyz will be the most survivable against this weapon. I cant wait to see what it does I dont think it will be as bad as people making it out to be.
This is wrong, the following is the chance of a model dying if Grav weapons wound based on armor saves and you get your armor save.
2+ is 5/36
3+ is 8/36
4+ is 9/36
5+ is 8/36
6+ is 5/36
They been saying AP 2 for a while and your comparing basically 1 terminatour to about 10 IG the IG going to last longer than.
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via 40k radio
Centurions can be taken as Elites or Heavy.Heavy support are the devastator option. They come with twin-linked Heavy bolters and Hurricane bolters. Hurricane can be upgraded to missile and HB upgraded to Twin- Las cannon or Grav-cannon and grav-amp.
If I had an extra $500 or so I'd consider taking as many of these as an army can field and adding Dark Angel allies with a dakka banner for an insane number of bolter shots every turn.
dakka banner is DA codex units only, otherwise I would already be running stern guard with a banner
Ah yes, damn gw and there rules making sence this time.
And about the centurions, armor 2+, no invuln, t5, looks like tac squad with grav weapon is a pretty good counter to it
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via 40k radio
Centurions can be taken as Elites or Heavy.Heavy support are the devastator option. They come with twin-linked Heavy bolters and Hurricane bolters. Hurricane can be upgraded to missile and HB upgraded to Twin- Las cannon or Grav-cannon and grav-amp.
If I had an extra $500 or so I'd consider taking as many of these as an army can field and adding Dark Angel allies with a dakka banner for an insane number of bolter shots every turn.
dakka banner is DA codex units only, otherwise I would already be running stern guard with a banner
Ah yes, damn gw and there rules making sence this time.
And about the centurions, armor 2+, no invuln, t5, looks like tac squad with grav weapon is a pretty good counter to it
see thats the fishy thing to me... it's bigger than a terminator, has the save armor save as a terminator, but no invuln like a terminator?
i'd be surprised if they're aren't more armor rules for them... or 3wounds or something
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2 wounds. Put it in the bank.
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2 wounds. Put it in the bank.
Agreed
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Anyone know what fliers are in the book, if anything was added or changed?
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I know it's meaningless at this point, but the GW rep confirmed September (and that's it).
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Nice and i want to know what these chapter tactics option do
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I don't play space marines, but I think it's awesome that they get not one, but TWO AA tanks. If they are any good then hopefully we will see a drastic shift in the meta and see less fliers. Playing against power flier lists are so stupid and boring, hopefully these "Terran Seige Tanks" turn those fliers into scrap wreckage.
If that happens then I won't be forced to take a Lord of Change anymore!
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Nice and i want to know what these chapter tactics option do
Same. I hope they're COMPLETELY awesome.
I really hope things are a lot different with this book. From where I'm at, it seems like people have been a lot more excited about the Xenos books over the past 2'ish years. Maybe that's because the last couple books have been awesome and redone super old armies, but still... The power armor books have lacked obvious "wow" factor.
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Nice and i want to know what these chapter tactics option do
I wouldn't be surprised if its similar to the previous book, making signature weapons count as twin-linked or gain fearless or something, although I hope it's more than that. I did see something here about the Iron Hands all having 6+ feel no pain which is totally awesome, but we will just have to wait and see.
Either way I think you'll see at least a few centurion proxies, I myself will have to start saving toilet paper rolls for just such an occasion.
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The Chapter Tactics seem to make it that Chapter and from what I hear they have 2 Variations for all of them. From what I hear Salamanders Chapter Tactics have something to do with making Flamers awesome. I am very excited about being able to run a Salamanders type Army without having to rely on putting Vul'Kan in there. Smaller Point Games will be even more interesting. Example the 500 point Tournament. Everyone playing Space Marines was just that but now you will have White Scars, Salamanders, Iron Hands, and Ravenguard at lower point games.
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Im kinda interested in since you have chapter specific units but all in the same codex, can you take say like a tac squas of ultramarines and another of salamanders?
Or would you have to do an ally force org chart to run a diff chapter
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Nah, they are treating it like the Chapter Tactics in 5th Everyone from the Codex has it. I think though the Named ICs are going to bring their own thing to the armies so maybe you could take say Khan with Ultramarine Tactics who knows.
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well darn, is it possible to take the same codex as a allied force org? the reason i ask is because ive been wanting to build a iron hands army lately(before i heard about them getting rules in new dex).
I also want the shooty centurians but they dont sound to ultramarine to me and was hoping they have rules where i could have ultramarines as my main army but have iron hand centrurions as support
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well darn, is it possible to take the same codex as a allied force org? the reason i ask is because ive been wanting to build a iron hands army lately(before i heard about them getting rules in new dex).
I also want the shooty centurians but they dont sound to ultramarine to me and was hoping they have rules where i could have ultramarines as my main army but have iron hand centrurions as support
I think yes it would be technically possible, in a 2000pt force using double FOC
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2000 pt double force org is one way to get more force org slots but you cannot ally with your same codex, says so right in the chart.
as to chapter tactics i'm assuming you cant do multiple kinds but i guess we will see
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It's not allies, its double FOC with different chapter tactics.. big difference.
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These ultramarines rumors seem pretty sweet perhaps to the point of being overpowered (GW would NEVER do that to a codex...)
-Marneus Calgar may take 3 Warlord Traits and is pricier.
Most warlord traits aren't game changers but 3 might be, seems a bit nuts unless SM warlord traits are crap
UNIT CHANGES
-Chaplains are HQ , W:2, A:2 and grant Zealot.
-Master of the Forge gains It Will Not Die
-Scouts drop 2 points, can take LS Storm as a dedicated transport.
-Tacticals drop 2 points.
-Devastators drop 2 points.
-Sternguard drop 3 points.
-Vanguard drop 1 point, jumppack option drops 7 points.
-Honour guard are cheaper.
-SM Bikes drop 4 points.
-Hunter/Stalker re both armed with s:7 weapons (Stalker heavy4, Hunter heavy1). The Hunter's weapon is AP:2 Armorbane.
-Command Squads may take bikes, and a bike-equipped Commander makes a SM Biker unit troops.
-Crusader Squads may take 2 power weapons per squad. Costed and equipped as Tacticals as standard. May swap out for BP/CCW for free. Max size 10 Initiates and 10 Neophytes.
-Centurions WS4 BS4 S5 T5 W2 I4 Ld8/9 Sv2, Squad size 3-6, each costed as a Predator.
CHAPTER ABILITIES
- Raven Guard have Stealth, may use jump packs in movement AND assault phase.
- Imperial Fists reroll '1s' to hit with standard bolters (Bolter Drill). Devatators/Centurions have Tank Hunters and +1 on the building damage table.
- Salamanders reroll failed to-wounds with flame weapons, and failed armor penetration rolls versus vehicles. Characters gain a free master crafted weapon. Vulkan is the only way to grant twin-linked meltas.
- Black Templars have Chapter Tactics options instead of Vows. The Emperor's Champion is an HQ choice for them only and chooses from either (reroll failed to-hits plus rending in challenges), or (gain Adamantium Will plus Crusader). No Librarians allowed.
- Ultramarines choose from one of the following donctrines:
a) Tactical - Re-roll ones, unless they're Tactical marines and they re-roll all shooting failed to hits.
b) Assault - Re-roll charge distance, unless they're Assault squads, Bikes, Attack bikes who gain Fleet.
c) Devstator - Re-roll on snap shots and overwatch, unless they're Devastators who gain Relentless (except when disembarking).
- White Scars bike equipped Captain makes 1 bike squad troops
- Successor Chapter use the Chapter Tactics of their Founding Chapter. Many Successor Chapters are listed by name.
NEW ITEMS
6 new Chapter Relics
Grav Weapons have Concussive
CHARACTERS
-Marneus Calgar may take 3 Warlord Traits and is pricier.
-Korsarro Khan grants Scout to mounted troops and bikes. He inflicts D3 Hammer of Wrath hits.
-Kayvan Shrike may Infiltrate with Jumppack units.
-Emperor's Champion equipped with AP:2 sword, armor is 2+/4+i
-High-Marshal Helbrecht grants Hatred and Fleet to Black Templars in the Assault phase once per game.
-Lysander returns with Eternal Warrior, Units in 12" re-roll on morale and pinning test.
-Grimaldus Grants Zealot to his unit.
-Several Named Characters retain USRs that affect their entire army.
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None of this seems broken to me. All the 6th Ed books have been fantastic so far and I have no reason to believe this will be any different. Calgary does seem like a boss but he is the boss and he is close to 300 pts.
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70 points s for a 2w, t5, armor it doesn't matter because everyone has ap 2 now anyway, think I'll pass on centurions. Save room in the buget for sternguard and more tac squads.
The devastator tactic for ultas seems great though, devastators with relentless, yes please. I think I might put them back n rhinos and shoot out the fire ports while drving around, loose two shots but gain av 11 for as long as the rhino lives.
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My biggest hope for this codex was that Kantor makes Sternguard troops, early rumors look like he won't but they will still be scoring.
Coupled with the fact the Sternguard look to be cheaper i'm probably still going to be happy.
I suspect i'm going to pick up a squad or two of the new Centurians to try them out and see how they do on the board.
Still waiting to see what is in the "space marine strikeforce" for $220... as long as it's a battleforce and not one of those stupid GW packages
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The HUNTER has AP2 ARMORBANE!! Bye Bye STORMRAVEN!! Ha!
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The HUNTER has AP2 ARMORBANE!! Bye Bye STORMRAVEN!! Ha!
yahhhh about that, look at these newest leaks... they don't have interceptor
Space Marines are right around the corner, and here is a great compilation put up by the Emperors Champion over on Bolter and Chainsword. A lot of the information below has been compiled from bits coming out of 40k radio, who seem to have an inside copy of the codex.
So lets take a look at what is here, and its time to get excited for Space Marines, if you are not there already.
via The Emperor's Champion on Bolter and Chainsword
Credit to 40k Radio for tons of this info.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/40K-Radio/147396461962884?fref=ts
WARGEAR:
CHAPTER RELICS:
There are 6 different ones.
Two swords, one Bolter, set of armor, one Storm Shield and one banner
They range from 25pts to 65pts.
One Chapter Relic grants a 6+ Invulnerable Save. (It's unclear who benefits from the Save generated by the Relic)
NEW WEAPONS:
Graviton weapons - Have the Concussive special rule, but are not Blast weapons.
Hunter Multi-Launcher (or whatever it is now called) - S:7 AP:2 Heavy1, Armorbane
Stalker's anti-aircraft guns - S:7 AP:? Heavy4
Siege Drills - S:9 AP:2 Melee, Specialist Weapon, Armorbane
CHAPTER TRAITS & SPECIAL CHARACTERS:
ULTRAMARINES CHAPTER TRAITS:
Ultramarines armies may choose 1 of the following three doctrines:
Tactical - The Tactical detachment re-rolls ones, unless they're Tactical Marines, in which case they re-roll all failed To Hit rolls in the Shooting Phase.
Assault - The Assault detachment re-rolls charge ranges, unless they're Assault Squads, Bikes, or Attack Bikes, in which case they get Fleet.
Devastator - The Devastator detachment get re-rolls on Snap Shots and Overwatch shots, unless they're Devastators, in which case they gain Relentless (as long as they're not disembarking from a transport in the Movement Phase).
MARNEUS CALGAR:
Is now 275pts
Is equipped with Artificer Armour by default. May upgrade to the Armour Of Antilochus for +10pts.
Marneus Calgar can take three Warlord traits.
The Armour Of Antilochus - his Terminator Armor - does not prevent him from preforming a Sweeping Advance, and it has a built in Teleport Homer.
VARRO TIGURIUS:
Tigurius is Mastery Level 3.
He knows all Psychic Disciplines.
He can re-roll his dice when determining his psychic powers.
He can re-roll Reserves rolls(even successful ones).
The Hood Of Hellfire is now a Psychic Hood that lets him re-roll failed Psychic Tests.
ORTAN CASSIUS:
5 points more expensive.
CATO SICARIUS:
15 points cheaper.
TORIAS TELION:
Telion has the same points cost.
Updated with sniper rules for 6th Edition.
ANTARO CHRONUS:
Chronus is cheaper.
He increases the BS of his tank by +1.
SALAMANDER CHAPTER TRAITS:
Get to re-roll any failed Armor Saves from flame based weapons. (Flamers, Meltas, etc, as per page 56 of the Rulebook)
Their flame weapons (Flamers, Meltas, etc, as per page 56 of the Rulebook) get to re-roll any failed To-Wound rolls or Armor Penetration rolls that fail to cause a Penetrating or Glancing Hit.
Any Character gets to Mastercraft one weapon for free.
VULKAN HE'STAN:
Vulkan gives the Mastercrafted ability to Meltaguns, Combi-Meltas, and Multi-Meltas.
Otherwise essentially the same.
RAVEN GUARD CHAPTER TRAITS:
They all get the Stealth USR.
They get the ability to use their Jump Packs in the Movement and Assault Phase.
KAYVAAN SHRIKE:
Shrike can only Infiltrate with Jump Infantry.
????
WHITE SCARS CHAPTER TRAITS:
+1 to Jink saves
Autopass Dangerous Terrain tests
+1 to Hammer Of Wrath attacks
All White Scars units gain the Hit & Run USR, except for Terminators and Centurions.
KOR'SARRO KAHN:
Khan gives Bikes and Dedicated Transports in the White Scars detachment the Scout USR.
Moondraken inflicts D3 Hammer Of Wrath hits.
IMPERIAL FISTS CHAPTER TRAITS:
Bolter Drill - All Imperial Fists reroll '1s' to hit with standard Bolters.
Devastators and Centurions have the Tank Hunters USR and gain +1 on the Building Damage Table.
DARNATH LYSANDER:
Costs +30pts more
Has the Eternal Warrior USR.
Units within 12" re-roll failed Morale and Pinning Tests.
PEDRO KANTOR:
Pedro Kantor makes Sternguard Veteran Squads into Scoring units.
IRON HANDS CHAPTER TRAITS:
All Iron Hands have the Feel No Pain USR on a 6+.
All Characters and vehicles have the It Will Not Die USR.
Iron Hands get a 1+ to Blessing Of The Omnissiah
BLACK TEMPLARS CHAPTER TRAITS:
A Black Templars army may choose one of the following:
"Accept any Challenge, No Matter what the Odds" - Gain the ability to re-roll To-Hits rolls, and gain the Rending USR when you're in challenges.
"Crusaders" - Gain the Adamantium Will and Crusader USR's.
The Black Templars retain their current Ally Matrix.
The Black Templars may not take Librarians.
Black Templars may take Crusader Squads consisting of up to 10 Initiates (i.e. Tactical Marines) and up to 10 Neophytes (i.e. Scouts).
Black Templar Initiates may exchange their Bolters for Close Combat Weapons for free.
A Crusader Squad may purchase up to 2 Power Weapons, if you take a Sword Brother (i.e. the Veteran Sergeant upgrade).
HELBRECHT:
Once per game Helbrect can grant a Black Templars unit the Hatred and Fleet USR's for an Assault Phase.
May take a unit of Honor Guard.
GRIMAULDUS:
Grants the Zealot USR to any unit he joins.
If a unit is within 6" of Grimauldus' Servitors, they gain a 6+ Invulnerable Save.
Grimauldus has the It will not Die USR.
He has Wounds:3 and Attacks:3
THE EMPEROR'S CHAMPION:
The Black Sword (one-handed stance) - S:4 AP:2 Melee, Mastercrafted
The Black Sword (two-handed stance) - S:6 AP:2 Melee, Mastercrafted, Two-Handed
The Armour Of Faith - Grants The Emperor's Champion a 2+ Armor Save and a 4+ Invulnerable Save.
The Emperor's Champion is an HQ choice and DOES take up an HQ slot.
He may be the Warlord.
The Emperor's Champion has Initiative:5 and Attacks:2 (not counting weapons).
HQ UNITS:
CHAPTER MASTER:
Now has Attacks:4 and Wounds:4.
Still has Orbital Bombardment.
CAPTAIN:
Equipping the Captain with a Bike allows a single 5-man Bike Squad to be taken as a Troops choice.
CHAPLAIN:
There is only one level of Chaplain.
Now has Attacks:2 and Wounds:2.
Chaplain grants Zealot to any squad he joins.
LIBRARIAN:
?
MASTER OF THE FORGE:
Now has the It Will Not Die USR.
HONOR GUARD:
Cheaper.
COMMAND SQUADS:
Can have Bikes
Cannot have Jump Packs
Cannot have Terminator Armor
ELITES UNITS:
STERNGUARD VETERANS:
3 points cheaper per Marine.
Access to Graviton weapons.
TACTICAL TERMINATORS/ASSAULT TERMINATORS:
Thunderhammers & Stormshields cost +5pts per Assault Terminator to upgrade.
There is no way to make Terminators into Troops choices or Scoring units.
TECHMARINES:
No news to report.
ASSAULT CENTURIONS:
WS:4 BS:4 S:5 T:5 W:2 I:4 Ld:8/9 Sv:2+ InvSv: -
Unit Size: 3 - 190pts
- May purchase up to 3 additional Centurions for 60pts each
Standard equipment:
- Siege Drills (S9 AP2 Melee, Specialist Weapon, Armorbane)
- Twin-Linked Flamers
- Ironclad Assault Launcher
Weapon Upgrades: (ALL UPGRADES COST BETWEEN 10-20pts)
- Twin-Linked Flamers may be upgraded to Twin-Linked Meltaguns
- Ironclad Assault Launcher may be upgraded to Hurricane Bolters
Upgrades: (ALL UPGRADES COST BETWEEN 10-20pts)
- Can purchase Omniscope which gives Night Fight and Split Fire special rules.
Dedicated Transport:
- They can select a Land Raider as a dedicated transport.
Special Rules:
- Move Through Cover
- Slow and Purposeful
- Decimator Protocols(Can fire up to two weapons in each shooting phase)
- Very Bulky
- Chapter Tactics
- And They Shall Know No Fear
DREADNOUGHT:
No news to report.
VENERABLE DREADNOUGHT:
No news to report.
IRONCLAD DREADNOUGHT:
No news to report.
TROOPS UNITS:
TACTICAL SQUADS:
2 points cheaper per Marine (14pts each).
Access to a Graviton Rifle as a Special Weapon option.
SCOUT SQUADS:
2 points cheaper per Scout.
May take Land Speeder Storms as Dedicated Transports.
FAST ATTACK UNITS:
VANGUARD VETERANS:
Heroic Intervention: Negates the penalty for Disordered Charge and the Sergeant auto-passes Initiative checks for Glorious Intervention.
They CANNOT charge after Deep Striking anymore.
1 point cheaper per Marine.
Jump Pack upgrade is 7 points cheaper per Marine.
BIKE SQUADS:
4 points cheaper per Marine.
ATTACK BIKES:
Possibly 4 points cheaper.
SCOUT BIKES:
No news to report.
HEAVY SUPPORT UNITS:
DEVASTATOR SQUADS:
2 points cheaper per Marine.
DEVASTATOR CENTURIONS:
WS:4 BS:4 S:5 T:5 W:2 I:4 Ld:8/9 Sv:2+ InvSv: -
Unit Size: 3 - 190pts
- May purchase up to 3 additional Centurions for 60pts each
Standard equipment:
- Twin-linked Heavy Bolters and Hurricane Bolters
Weapon Upgrades: (ALL UPGRADES COST BETWEEN 10-20pts)
- Hurricane Bolters can be upgraded to Missile Launchers
- Twin-Linked Heavy Bolters may be upgraded to Twin-Linked Lascannons
- Twin-Linked Heavy Bolters may be upgraded to Grav-cannon and Grav-amp
Upgrades: (ALL UPGRADES COST BETWEEN 10-20pts)
- Can purchase Omniscope which gives Night Fight and Split Fire special rules.
Dedicated Transport:
- They can select a Land Raider as a dedicated transport.
Special Rules:
- Slow and Purposeful
- Decimator Protocols(Can fire up to two weapons in each shooting phase)
- Very Bulky
- Chapter Tactics
- And They Shall Know No Fear
THUNDERFIRE CANNONS:
Unchanged in rules and points cost.
VEHICLES:
RHINOS/RAZORBACKS:
No news to report.
DROP PODS:
Transport capacity has dropped back down to 10.
STORMRAVEN:
Same point cost.
STORMTALON:
No news to report.
LAND SPEEDER/LAND SPEEDER TORNADO/LAND SPEEDER TYPHOON:
No news to report.
LAND SPEEDER STORM:
The Land Speeder Storm is now a Dedicated Transport for Scouts.
PREDATOR DESTRUCTOR/ANNIHILATOR:
Cheaper.
VINDICATOR SIEGE TANK:
No news to report.
WHIRLWIND ARTILLERY TANK:
No news to report.
STALKER ANTI-AIR TANK:
AV 12/12/10
S:7 AP:? Heavy4
Does NOT have Interceptor.
HUNTER ANTI-AIR TANK:
AV 12/12/10
S:7 AP:2 Heavy1, Armorbane
Does NOT have Interceptor.
LAND RAIDER:
Passenger Capacity - 10
LAND RAIDER REDEEMER:
Passenger Capacity - 12
LAND RAIDER CRUSADER:
Passenger Capacity - 16
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70 points s for a 2w, t5, armor it doesn't matter because everyone has ap 2 now anyway, think I'll pass on centurions.
Every 6th ed codex has good(and sometimes hidden) combos, if you add a Divination Librarian to the Centurions, you may be able to get a 4+ rerollable invulnerable save. It's reliability would depend on how many psychic levels and/or special librarian characters available.
Also there might be wargear that they can take to get an inv save too.
yahhhh about that, look at these newest leaks... they don't have interceptor
And?
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If they don't have interceptor, it means they can basically only shoot at flyers. Meaning, you will see these about as often as you see Hydra Flak Tanks now. Meaning, you won't see these.
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By the way, is that not the clumsiest rule hack you have ever seen? C'mon GW. If something has interceptor, it means it can shoot at ground targets? Why conflate Interceptor with the ability to aim the gun down? Why not just give some things "optional skyfire" and others "mandatory skyfire", or something like that?
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Requiring stuff to only shoot at flyers is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
If half of the new models (the two tanks) can't actually do anything most of the time then I'm a bit worried about this launch...
It must not be correct.
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Requiring stuff to only shoot at flyers is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
If half of the new models (the two tanks) can't actually do anything most of the time then I'm a bit worried about this launch...
It must not be correct.
Unfortunately Chase every launch there are some new models that are just crap and won't sell (the DA flyers, the Tau Flyers, those Daemon chariots)
Unless they actually have interceptor or are really cheap in points i wouldn't stock a lot of kits.
The new tac squads will sell, Sternguard in plastic is huge, and the new Centurion kits will probably fly off the shelves even though the sculpts are not that great and the price is fairly high.
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Requiring stuff to only shoot at flyers is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
If half of the new models (the two tanks) can't actually do anything most of the time then I'm a bit worried about this launch...
It must not be correct.
Yes, it is a little concerning given that in order to play with the other big new model (centurions), you need to put a bag over your own head and over the head of the centurion.
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The tanks could have a rule or equipment to allow it the option of having skyfire, but probably not. Its more likely a model that will sit around waiting for flyers (if the opponent has any at all) and get blown up by said flyer the turn it arrives.
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The "hunter leak" also doesn't include the skyfire rule either, but its obviously marketed as an AA tank.. we also don't know what types of upgrades it can take, so I think its just best to wait until the book hits shelves.
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The "hunter leak" also doesn't include the skyfire rule either, but its obviously marketed as an AA tank.. we also don't know what types of upgrades it can take, so I think its just best to wait until the book hits shelves.
OR... OR.... we could conjecture wildly some more because we have nothing better to do until the codex actually shows up
like did you know that Space Marines are actually getting access to Fellblades in normal 40k games?
(http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120508195530/glee/images/1/10/True_story_barney.jpg)
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Centurions should have Relentless otherwise. Otherwise Assault Centurions are kind of screwed if they take hurricane bolters.
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I seem to have lost a link I meant to share with someone, and I know someone here can help me find it. It was a picture of a large Space Marine unit, looked like a titan, with Rhinos for arms and a Land Speeder for a head.
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If you were born in the 80s that's a Voltron reference
If you were born in the 90s then that was a power ranger reference.
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FORM BLAZING SWORD
(http://i39.tinypic.com/2v3j5lc.jpg)
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If anyone is even CONSIDERING playing space marines you must see this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZZv5Z2Iz_s
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I sure as hell hope people are considering playing Space Marines! :)
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I'm not.... haha. I'll continue to play near every other army though Chase :)
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With Str5+, rending, poison, AP2, multi-shot, weapons and monsters becoming more common in the game.. the once legendary 3+ power armor has actually turned into a liability.
This codex will be good if marines get a massive points reduction(which I think they will), and also a huge boost in fire power. I think the Chapter tactics will MAKE the army. If you asked me(2 years ago) if the new chapter tactics were over powered, based on the rumors I might've said yes. But now there is so much high power stuff in the game that T4 3+ save is almost useless, and you pay the points for it to boot. Also compared to other standard weapons, the bolter is a piece of junk.
So with points reduction with more buffs and MORE firepower, I think it will be a good codex.
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I am really looking forward to the codex. I won't lie I want some slightly OP stuff for them but who knows what is going to happen until the book hits.
Storm Raven, Assault Centurions, IronClad Dreadnought. :P
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Well, if they add "form blazing sword" then you know some serious sh*t is about to go down ;)
I can't get that music out of my head! Lol
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Newest updated compilation
General Information
176 Pages
Cover features Sicarius
Less Ultramarine-centric (more chapters in the spotlight and then allowing for a proper expansion on the Ultramarines in a supplement)
7 different Limited Editions, priced at $115 USD (regular edition is rumored to be $58 USD)
Black Templars moved back into the codex. Confirmed
Black Templars get special mention in the White Dwarf by Robin Cruddace on why they were moved, and are the Battle Report army vs CSM/Daemons Confirmed
Black Templars are featured as one of the Limited Edition books Confirmed:
Space Marine Strikeforce $220 USD - 39 models
New Codex Rules
New codex focus is on synergies between units
Graviton Weapons are being brought into standard 40k Confirmed
Black Templars are in the codex. They retain unique access to the Emperor's Champion and Crusader Squads, their allies chart options and can take any option in the codex apart from Librarians. Their Chapter Tactic replaces Vows.
Chapter Tactics: (These still work even if the Space Marines are allied to another army, and, unless otherwise stated, apply to all models in the detachment)
No Chapter Tactics provide Fearless or Stubborn to the army.
Ultramarines: (May no longer elect to fall back from combat) Choose one of the following Doctrines: Tactical, Assault, or Devastator. The Tactical detachment re-roll ones while shooting, unless they're tactical marines and they re-roll all failed to hit rolls in the shooting phase. The Assault detachment re-rolls charges, unless they're assault squads, bikes, or attack bikes who get fleet. The Devastator detachment get to re-rolls on snap shots and overwatch shots, unless they're Devastators and they gain relentless as long as they're not disembarking from a transport in the movement phase
Imperial Fists: Bolter Drill, which allows them to re-roll any 1s with all Bolter weapons listed on page 56 of the codex (it does not work with Sternguard special rounds), additionally all Devastators and Centurion Devastators gain the Tank Hunters special rules and add a +1 to all rolls to damage buildings.
White Scars: +1 to jink save, auto pass on dangerous terrain, +1 to Hammer of Wrath attacks, Hit and Run on all units, except for Terminators and Centurions (both types).
Raven Guard: Stealth USR and the ability to use their jump packs in the movement and assault phase.
Iron Hands: Army wide 6+ Feel No Pain and It Will Not Die for vehicles and characters . Techmarines and Master of the Forge also get a +1 on their Blessing of the Omnissiah rolls
Salamanders: Re-roll any failed armor saves from flame based weapons, also with their flame weapons they get to re-roll any failed wounds or armor penetration that fail to cause a penetration or glancing hit. Additionally any character gets to master craft one weapon for free.
Black Templars: Crusaders (gives Adamantium Will and Crusader USRs) and Accept All Challenges, no Matter the Cost (Characters gain Rending and Re-roll To-hit Rolls in challenges).
Second Founding or Later Chapters: Use the rule of your Parent chapter.
Unknown Founding or Homebrew: Pick one.
Chapter Tactics can only be mixed by allying in a separate chapter (this implies a new rule allowing the codex to ally to itself).
Wargear:
Graviton Pistol: 12", S*, AP2, Concussive
Graviton Gun: 18", S*, AP2, Salvo 2/3, Concussive
Graviton Cannon: 24", S*, AP2, Salvo 3/5, Concussive
Grav-Amp: Re-Roll Wounds and Armor Penetration rolls with Grav-weapons
*Graviton weapons always wound on the same number as the target's armor save (example: against a Marine it's a 3+, against a Gaunt it's a 6+), against vehicles on a 1-5 it does nothing, on a 6+ it automatically Immobilizes the vehicle and removes 1 hull point. Rules are not yet clear how this applies to models without armor saves.
Graviton Pistols are available to almost any model that can take a pistol
Graviton Guns are a Special Weapon
Graviton Cannons are only available to Devastator Centurions
Flak Missiles available for +10 points
Auxiliary Grenade Launcher: 24" Rapid Fire
Chapter Relics include 2 swords, 1 Bolter, 1 set of armor, 1 Storm Shield, 1 banner.
Warlord Traits: 1 chart shared between all chapters.
HQ
Models:
New Captain Model Confirmed $30 USD - Plastic Clampack
New Librarian Model Confirmed $30 USD - Plastic Clampack
New Chaplain Model Confirmed $30 USD - Plastic Clampack
Reclusiam Command Squad 5 Man $90 USD - 5 Model Command Squad, Razorback, and Chaplain
Rules:
Special Characters are no longer required to run a specific chapter. Some Special Characters provide bonuses to units from their specific chapter though.
Characters from chapters can only be chosen by those specific chapters. For example: an army with the Chapter Tactics (Imperial Fists) can not take Forge Father Vulcan He'stan as part of the main detachment. Characters can still be shared through the use of allying one chapter to another, however.
No Characters give Fearless or Stubborn to the army.
Captain Cato Sicarius:
15 point reduction in cost.
+1 to Reserve Rolls
No longer Seizes the Initiative on a 5+
Chaplain Cassius:
5 point increase in cost.
Gained Zealot USR (?)
Chief Librarian Tigurius:
65 point decrease
Mastery Level 3
Knows all disciplines
He can re-roll his dice when determining his psychic powers
He can re-roll reserves(even successful ones)
Helm of Hellfire is a psychic hood
He can re-roll failed psychic test
Statline is unchange
Forge Father Vulcan He'stan:
No change in points
Gives Meltas in the Salamander army Twin-Link.
Kor'ssaro Khan:
35 points cheaper
Moondrakkan 20 points cheaper
Bikes and Dedicated Transports in a White Scars detachment have the Scout USR
His bike does D3 Hammer of Wrath hits.
Lysander:
Increased cost by +30 points
Still retains Eternal Warrior
No longer has Bolter Drill instead allows all units in 12" with Chapter Tactics (IF) re-roll on morale and pinning test
Same statline
Marneus Calgar:
Rolls for 3 Warlord traits (re-rolls duplicates) and keeps all three
Terminator Armor now allows him to Sweeping Advance
25 points more expensive than his current incarnation
may take his Terminator Armor for 10 points
It still has a Teleport Homer.
Pedro Kanto:
10 point increase.
Makes Sternguard Scoring,
Uses Chapter Tactics (Imperial Fists)
Retains 12" +1A Bubble
Has 4 Attacks, 4 Wounds
Shadow Captain Kayvaan Shrike: Can only infiltrate with jump infantry
Chapter Master:
Has 4 Wounds and 4 Attacks,
Still has Orbital Bombardment
Captains:
Replace Black Templar Marshalls (and to an extent Castellans) for Black Templars
10 point decrease base
1 Bike squad of at least 5 models (of which one may be an attack bike) may be taken as a troops choice per Captain on a bike in your army.
No other real changes.
Chaplains: Has 2 Wounds, 2 Attacks and the Zealot USR.
Librarians:
No longer have codex powers, but retain same disciplines in rulebook.
Only unit not available to Black Templars
Mastery Level 1 cost 25 points less
Mastery Level 2 is a 25 point upgrade
Can only get Invunerable Saves through the Relics (one is stated to give a 6++) or Terminator Armor
Master of the Forge:
Still the "shooty" HQ option.
Only access to an Invulnerable save is through Chapter Relics.
Helbrecht:
Once per game gives Hatred and Fleet in the Assault phase. It only works on units with Chapter Tactics (Black Templars),
Can take an Honor Guard (he's a Chapter Master)
Does not get Orbital Bombardment.
W4, A4 like the generic Chapter Master
Grimaldus:
Has the Zealot and the "It Will Not Die" USRs.
Units within 6" of the servitors get a 6++ invulnerable save.
He has 3 Wounds and 3 Attacks.
Emperor's Champion:
Combat Tactics (Black Templar) exclusive
Sword is AP2 (at Initiative), Master Crafted
Has 2 "stances", one gives +2 Strength (counts-as 2 handed), the other gives Rending
Always has a 2+/4++
Does not take up a FOC slot.
May be the army's Warlord
Command Squad:
May still take bikes.
No option for Jump Packs
No option for Terminator Armor
Honor Guard:
Honor Guard cost 10 points less per model
Retain Power Weapons, Bolter, Bolt Pistol, Artificer Armor, Frag and Krak Grenades
No change to Champion, just points decrease
No listed option for Invulnerable save
Can not take Jump Packs
Elites
Models:
New Sternguard Kit Confirmed $50 USD - 5 Model Plastic Box
New Vanguard Veterans Kit Confirmed $50 USD - 5 Model Plastic Box
Assault Centurions Confirmed $78 USD - 3 Model box shared with Devastator Centurions
Rules:
Legion of the Damned:
All weapons ignore cover
5 points less a model
Sternguard Veterans:
Special Ammunition is unchanged.
Sternguard went down 3 points a model.
Vanguard Veterans:
Heroic Intervention no longer allows the unit to charge from Deep Strike.
New Heroic Intervention: No penalty for disordered charges and Sgt auto passes initiative check for Glorious Intervention.
1 point cheaper per model
Jump Packs cost 3 points per model
Now Elites
Assault Centurions:
Models come with Siege Drills, twin-linked flamers and Ironclad assault launchers.
Siege Drills are S9, AP2, Armourbane, Specialist Weapon and strike at Initiative.
Flamers can be traded for Meltas
Assault Launcher can be traded Hurricane Bolters.
They also have the following Special Rules: Slow and Purposeful, Decimator Protocols (Can fire up to two weapons in each shooting phase), Very Bulky, Chapter Tactics, and ATSKNF.
They can purchase an Omniscope which gives the Night Fight and Split Fire special rules.
They can purchase a Land Raider as a dedicated transport.
They do not have an Invunerable save.
The Assault Centurion statline is as follows: WS4 / BS4 / S5 / T5 / W2 / I4 / A1 / Ld8 / Sv2+
The Assualt Centurion Sergent statline is: WS4 / BS4 / S5 / T5 / W2 / I4 / A2 / Ld9 / Sv2+
Centurions gain +1 Attack for having 2 Specialist Weapons in close combat.
All Dreadnoughts:
"Basically the same"
Assault Terminators:
Thunderhammer/Stormshield Terminators now cost +5 points each to upgrade
Points cost unchanged.
Terminators:
Heavy Flamer went up in points, while Assault Cannon and Cyclone Missile Launcher got the same points decrease.
No new wargear options.
Points cost for Terminators unchanged.
Troops
Models:
New Tactical Squad Box (with Graviton Pistol and Graviton Gun options in addition to everything else). Confirmed $40 USD - 10 model Plastic Box
Rules:
Tactical Squads:
Tactical Marines cost 2 points less each.
Tactical Squads are similiar to the DA version, and the Marines now cost 2 points less each.
Tactical Squads may not take 2 Specialist Weapons
Sergeants work the same as the DA codex
Scouts:
2 points less each
Can take Land Speeder Storm as a Dedicated Transport.
Telion remains the same points cost, but is updated to use the 6th Edition Sniper rules.
Telion is restricted to armies with the "Chapter Tactics: Ultramarine" special rule.
Crusader Squads:
Can take up to 2 Power Weapons/Fists in the Squad if a Sword Brother (Veteran Sergeant) is taken
Initiates cost the same as Tactical Marines and come with the same equipment (Bolter, Bolt Pistol, Frag and Krack Grenades)
Initiates may trade their Bolters for CCW for free.
May take up to 10 Initiates and 10 Neophytes in a squad
May take a Land Raider Crusader as a dedicated transport
No special rules beyond ATSKNF and Chapter Tactics (Black Templars)
ONLY available to armies with Chapter Tactics (Black Templars)
Dedicated Transport
Models:
None
Rules:
Land Speeder Storm:
Now a Dedicated Transport for Scouts
Cerebus Launcher is now range 18", S 2, large blast, Blind
Other:
Black Templars may take Land Raider Crusaders as Dedicated Transports
Drop Pods hold 10 models
Fast Attack
Models:
None.
Rules:
Assault Marines:
1 point cheaper per model
No access to melta
Can not be troops choices
Bikes:
1 Bike squad of at least 5 models (of which one may be an attack bike) may be taken as a troops choice per Captain on a bike in your army.
Max size is 8 models
Scout Bikes:
2 points cheaper per bike
Still lay mines as per current codex
Attack Bikes:
+5 points per model
Stormtalon Gunship:
Now an official part of the codex, Death from the Skies not required.
Same as the Death from the Skies version.
Land Speeder Squadrons:
May be taken in units of 1-3
No real chances
Land Speeder Typhoon:
15 points cheaper
Heavy Support
Models:
AA Tank: "the Hunter" Confirmed $65 USD - combined Kit with Stalker Tank
AA Tank: "the Stalker" Confirmed $65 USD - Combined Kit with Hunter Tank
Devastator Centurions Confirmed $78 USD - 3 Model box shared with Assault Centurions
Rules:
Devastator Centurions:
Come equipped with twin-linked Heavy Bolters and Hurricane Bolters.
Hurricane Bolters can be upgraded to Missiles
Heavy Bolters can be upgraded upgraded to Twin-Lascannon or Grav-cannon and grav-amp.
They also have the following Special Rules: Slow and Purposeful, Decimator Protocols (Can fire up to two weapons in each shooting phase), Very Bulky, Chapter Tactics, and ATSKNF.
They can purchase a Land Raider as a dedicated transport.
They can be purchased in squads up to 6.
The Devastator Centurion statline is as follows: WS4 / BS4 / S5 / T5 / W2 / I4 / A1 / Ld8 / Sv2+
The Devastator Centurion Sergent statline is: WS4 / BS4 / S5 / T5 / W2 / I4 / A2 / Ld9 / Sv2+
Grav-Cannon is rumored to be AP2 (I am unsure at this time if this carries over to all Grav Weapons or not).
Grav-Amps allow you to reroll to wound rolls.
3 models with no upgrade cost the same as the current price of Predator with no upgrades
Stalker:
Each gun is: 48" Range, S7, AP4, Heavy 4
Can Split fire at reduces BS
AV 12/12/10
Does not have Interceptor
10 points more than the current price of Predator with no upgrades
Hunter:
60", S7, AP2, Armourbane, Heavy 1
AV 12/12/10
Does not have Interceptor
15 points more than the current price of Predator with no upgrades
Devastators:
Reduced points cost, close to the DA version
Signum still gives BS5 to one model in the squad
Thunderfire Cannon:
No change, same points cost.
Stormraven Gunship:
Official part of the codex, Death from the Skies no longer required to use.
Same points cost.
Vindicator:
"Basically the same"
Predator Tank:
Dakka Pred (Heavy Bolters/Autocannons) +5 points
Las Pred (Lascannon sponsons/turret) -25 Points
Whirlwind:
20 point cost reduction, no other changes
Brother-Sergeant Chronus:
Remains the same with a points cost decrease.
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So Chapter Tactics wise it looks like Ultramarines have the best options although Imperial Fists looks decent (even not getting to re-roll ones for scoring sternguard)
Cheaper troops and elites all the way around making them around the same point values as the DA book
The new AA tanks coming in at 70 and 75 points respectively MAY make them worth taking even without interceptor, only time will tell
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Hmmmm, im really liking the stalker at 75 points, getting 8 str 7 shots. But what im liking more is that it seems you can take other chapters as allies
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Looks like Ultramarines will be the most popular, I do like how they still retain their jack of all trade chapter while at the same time making their standard units more deadly. Tigiruis looks like an absolutely amazing pskyer and will probably rival the SW rune priests.
Although the other chapter tactics are specialist but still great for niche themed lists. I do think Black Templar are the weakest, but they are still good.. I predict only really good gamers will roll Templars.
Overall it does look like it will be a great codex
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There are definitely a few tricks in this new Dark Angels codex.
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Well Chase, I think its safe to say that you can order a few dozen Chief Librarian Tigurius models..or librarians since some players might use those to represent him. Tigurius's psychic powers rival both Eldrad and Fateweaver, stick him with a unit of Centurians and the whole squad will test positive for PEDs.
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unless they gave a chance for tigurius to swap out for better gear, dont expect to see him being fielded alot. I use him now and then and let me tell you, hes really weak.
3+ armor save, 2 wounds and no invu save. Your basically praying to roll on good pychic powers and hide him.
Granted the new rules for him and lower points make him very tempting to field, i find it best to hide him behind cover and just use defensive spells on allied units. Like Invisibility on your flyer.
But then again, evertime he died on me was because of perils of the warp and from the looks of his new rules i dont have to worry about that anymore 8)
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Is anything still bad after a reducing it's cost by 65 points? That's a massive swing.
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depends on the price of the other space marine psykers. they dont look to expensive to upgrade to lvl 2 but they may get better customizable gear, like terminator armor
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The Librarians probably going to be 65 points like the DA codex 35 points to make them mastery level 2. Tigurius if this is right is 165 points. 100 Points from a regular librarian for 2 Mastery Levels, The Ability to reroll reserves, Rerolling Failed Psychic Tests, Access to all Psychic powers, The Ability to reroll those Psychic Powers. He is a really good pick if this is all true and probably a better pick over a regular librarian if you got Ultramarines.
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Tigurius batting average will be better then A-ROD Lol. Divination will give him and his squad rerollable 4+ Invulnerable saves, put him with the Centurions and the squad majority is still T5 2+.. I don't see any problem here. Oh and he basically rerolls everything including psyker powers and reserves. He's Batman
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Tigurius batting average will be better then A-ROD Lol. Divination will give him and his squad rerollable 4+ Invulnerable saves, put him with the Centurions and the squad majority is still T5 2+.. I don't see any problem here. Oh and he basically rerolls everything including psyker powers and reserves. He's Batman
Is Tigurius going to get banned from tournament play if he allies with Dark Eldar and takes performance enhancing combat drugs?
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Is Tigurius going to get banned from tournament play if he allies with Dark Eldar and takes performance enhancing combat drugs?
Are you being sarcastic?
1: Space marines and Dark Elder aren't battle brothers so he can't join or cast spells on a DE unit.
2: DE combat drugs only work on DE
3: Eldrad can already cast Dividation spells at almost the same efficiency as the new Tigiruis(since 6th hit shelves) and he can join a DE unit, but no Eldar players would waste his Div spells on weak DE units.
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Is Tigurius going to get banned from tournament play if he allies with Dark Eldar and takes performance enhancing combat drugs?
Are you being sarcastic?
1: Space marines and Dark Elder aren't battle brothers so he can't join or cast spells on a DE unit.
2: DE combat drugs only work on DE
3: Eldrad can already cast Dividation spells at almost the same efficiency as the new Tigiruis(since 6th hit shelves) and he can join a DE unit, but no Eldar players would waste his Div spells on weak DE units.
lol yes i was,
you mentioned A-Rod and his batting average, so i made a baseball/40k crossover joke about him and his steroid / performance enhancing drug use.
apparently i'm not as funny as i think lol
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Oh lol, yea it is actually pretty funny.. I was just hyper focused on strategy that the joke went right over my head haha
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Is Tigurius going to get banned from tournament play if he allies with Dark Eldar and takes performance enhancing combat drugs?
Are you being sarcastic?
1: Space marines and Dark Elder aren't battle brothers so he can't join or cast spells on a DE unit.
2: DE combat drugs only work on DE
3: Eldrad can already cast Dividation spells at almost the same efficiency as the new Tigiruis(since 6th hit shelves) and he can join a DE unit, but no Eldar players would waste his Div spells on weak DE units.
lol yes i was,
you mentioned A-Rod and his batting average, so i made a baseball/40k crossover joke about him and his steroid / performance enhancing drug use.
apparently i'm not as funny as i think lol
I thought it was hilarious.
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Q and A from 40k Radio.
Some good tidbits in here, such as confirmation the new AA tanks will not have interceptor and can only shoot at flyers. Sternguard combi weapons are now 10pts instead of 5 (damnit).
And this shocker, oh look the codex isn't even out yet and already needs an FAQ lol
Q: how do Grav weapons work on models who don't have armor saves (like Daemons)?
A: I would say a 5+, might be FAQed.
Q: Is it true that what you guys have is an early playtest material, not the actual printed C:SM codex?
A: I have the final print copy.
Q: Are their any new Special Characters?
A: No.
Q: Is honour guard still 3-10 models, or only available as 5 models similar to command squads or BA honour guard?
A: 3-10
Q: Is relic blade still S+2 AP3 two-handed?
A: Yes
Q: Do Legion of the Damned get Soulblaze like in Apoc?
A: No
Q: Can the LotD still Deep Strike?
A: Yes
Q: Does the LotD still have Slow and Purposeful?
A: Yes
Q: Can the LotD be joined by characters?
A: No
Q: Does Cassius have the Zealot rule?
A: Yes
Q: Do the AA tanks have an alternate fire mode that lets them shoot at ground targets?
A: No, only one firing mode
Q: Can child chapters take the SCs of their parent chapters?
A: No (those are unique to their chapter)
Q: Can Pedro and Lysander be in the same army without using allies?
A: No (CF is one chapter, IF is another)
Q: Are Techmarines slotless HQs like the DA book?
A: Yes
Q: Can Captains still take Artificer Armor?
A: Yes
Q: Do Sternguard combi-weapons still cost 5 points?
A: No, they're 10 points
Q: Does Helbrecht have any other special rules besides the once a game rule that gives fleet/hatred?
A: No
Q: What is the cost of a five man scout squad with a Vet Sergeant?
A: 65 Points
Q: Any changes on Kantor's rules?
A: Basically the same (will be covered on show)
Q: Do bikes and centurions get combat squads rule?
A: Bikes yes, Centurions no.
Q: Is there is any vehicle able to get grav weapons?
A: No
Q: Are neophytes of crusade squad an independent squad that can join the main unit as it was rumoured, or crusade squads are a full unit option?
A: No, like last BT Dex.
Q: Is there option for crusade squads of getting two special weapons?
A: No.
Q: If one crusader squads takes a CLR as transport, it has any point cost reduction?
A: I don't have the BT Dex to check.
Q: Have black templars access to biker scouts?
A: Yes. They have access to everything except Librarians.
Q: Marneus Calgar "God of War" rule is still in there? Has it been replaced by the 3 warlord traits rule?
A: It's different and cool (will be covered on the show).
Q: How many points cost a grav-gun as special weapon on a tac squad?
A: 15 points.
Q: How many points are the lascannon and missle launcher upgrades on the Centurion Devastators?
A: Lascannon is 10, Missile is 10
Q: How much do Relic Blades Cost?
A: Chapter Master and Captain get it for 25 points.
Q: Does the codex include a Power Field Generator (DA Wargear that generates a 4++ for a unit)?
A: No
Q: Can Tactical Marines take a Special Weapon at 5 models?
A: A Squad of 5 can have a special weapon or heavy weapon.
Q: Can Calgar still take up to 3 units of Honor Guard?
A: Yes
Q: Additionally, does his still have the rule that lets him choose to pass or fail morale checks at will?
A: Yes (more in the show)
Q: Are Black Templar Characters required and/or accept challenges?
A: Not required, but they will be sick in challenges
Q: Bikes squads that can be made troops, a minimum of 5 models or 5 models max? there is some conflicting sounding information so people just want to confirm.
A: At least 5 (max 9 with Attack Bike) and if your Captain or Chapter Master is on a bike you make take them as troops.
Q: So Chapter Masters on bikes can unlock bike squads of at least 5 models as troops too?
A: Yes.
Q: Do LotD still have their 3++ save?
A: Yes
Q: Can the Bikers take the grav gun options?
A: Yes
Q: Can Scout Squads take locator beacons or teleport homes?
A: Teleport Homers.
Q: Does Shrike have any other rules?
A: No.
Q: Do Chapter Tactics cost anything?
A: No.
Q: The Stalker, does it have 4 shots total that it can split fire with or does each gun fire 4 shots each?
A: 4 shots each (this will be covered on the show)
Q: Do any of the SC's have Stubborn or Fearless?
A: No
Q: Does the Emperor's Champion take up an HQ slot?
A: Yes
Q: Does Sicarius still re-roll his Sieze Initiative attempts?
A: No
Q: Any change to Razorbacks?
A: I believe they went up 5 points
Q: Does the Ultramarines Tactical Chapter Tactic affect Sternguard special ammo?
A: I believe so.
Q: Also, are bike upgrades for Space Marine Captains cheaper?
A: I think the upgrade stayed the same.
Q: Are normal bikes cheaper?
A: Yes
Q: Are all these answers from an early rendition or playtest and subject to change? Or are these concrete answers from a full codex?
A: The book I have looks like the final. If this is a fake then a ton of effort has gone into this.
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Part 2
Q: Is there any way to assault from vehicles besides assault ramps on land raiders and stormravens?
A: The Land Speeder Storm.
Q: How do Successor Chapters work exactly?
A: This will be covered on the 1 Sept show. The answer is really long and it's easier to just explain it verbally than type it out.
Q: If you have two different chapters that use the same chapter tactic, can they ally to each other?
A: This will als be covered on the 1 Sept show.
Q: How do Camo Cloaks work?
A: +1 to cover, or 6+ cover if not in cover
Q: Can any of the HQs get Camo Cloaks?
A: No
Q: Is there a way to get Eternal Warrior?
A: Yes (will be covered in show (Zion's Speculation: It's a Relic))
Q: Can any of the HQs buy any special rules?
A: No
Q: Do the HQs still have access to Hellfire rounds?
A: No
Q: Can we get a rundown on what Grav Weapons will cost?
A: Grav will be on the show.
Q: In 5th Edition you were encouraged to use SCs as "Count-As" special characters to give you some new/interesting combinations. Is there anything in the new book that allows you to do this?
A: You can no longer do that due to Chapter Tactics.
Q: Just to confirm, this means the Camo Cloaks and the Raven Guard Chapter Tactic stack, right? +2 to their cover saves for having both?
A: They do stack, but there is a caveat to the Raven Guard rule that will be covered on the show. All Chapter Tactics will be covered on the show.
Q: BT High Marshal (Chapter Master equivalent?) Helbrecht has no Orbital Bombardment, but BT can take a "regular" Chapter Master and get the OB from him?
A: Correct, Helbrecht does not have it, but regular Chapter Masters do.
Q: Have Razorback weapon upgrades gotten cheaper, more expensive or stayed the same?
A: Some went down.
Q: How much do Relic Blades cost for Honor Guard?
A: 10 points.
Q: You mentioned that the Raven Guard Chapter Tactics have a caveat. Do all the Chapter Tactics have special caveats in how they can be used?
A: No, there are other rules for RG we didn't mention.
Q: Do these caveats require certain minumum requirements of units or wargear?
A: No.
Q: Are the Drop Pods priced like the DA ones (to include upgrades)?
A: Similiar.
Q: When making an army, are you required to take a chapter trait?
A: Yes.
Q: Is the Exorcists Chapter covered in the list of different Marine chapters/successors in the book?
A: Yes, there is a small blurb, but the do not have a parent chapter.
Q: Are any of these caveats negative things (like the old 4th edition flaws)?
A: No. The caveat is we have not revealed all the abilities for some chapters.
Q: Is there any clue you can give us on the nature of these caveats?
A: There are many layers to the CTs (no negatives).
Q: Did the points cost change for Power Weapons?
A: Generally the same, per units choices.
Q: Did the points cost change for Power Fists?
A: PF same.
Q: How much do Crusader Squads pay for Power Weapons?
A: 15.
Q: Can the Initiate in a Crusader Squad take a Power Fist?
A: Yes at 25 points.
Q: How does the limit for the extra power weapon in the Crusader squad work. Is it just 1 Initiate or is it 1 per X number of models in the squad?
A: 1 Initiate and then upgrade one to Sword Brother and you can get another.
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Are Templars getting Blessed Hull again?
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Looking at the latest batch of rumours...I may have to get this codex since White Scars run sooo much a better Ravenwing army than the Dark Angels Codex does. Cheaper, better support units, and an actually reasonably priced/effective flyers and really only loose black knights, banners and combat sqauds.
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Looking at the latest batch of rumours...I may have to get this codex since White Scars run sooo much a better Ravenwing army than the Dark Angels Codex does. Cheaper, better support units, and an actually reasonably priced/effective flyers and really only loose black knights, banners and combat sqauds.
seriously, DA already weren't great and now they just got another nail in the coffin
HERES THE NEW STUFF!!!
This is a massive information dump on what is coming in a few short weeks in the Space Marine codex. If you are still doubting they are coming..... I have read the White Dwarf with my own two eyes, they are coming.
A huge thanks to Zion for throwing all of this information into one format from 40k Radio. 40k Radio has a print copy of this codex, and on their show went through it in detail.
Thanks again Zion (and for sending me the link)
via Zion at talkwargaming and 40k Radio
General Information:
*240 Points for 3 Centurions with Grav-Cannons/Grav-Amps and Hurricane Bolters (for those who hate math, that means it's a 20 point upgrade for Grav-Cannon/Grav-Amps each).
*Assault Centurions have Move Through Cover
*Codex: Space Marines is largely in line with Codex: Dark Angels points wise.
*176 Pages in their copy of the codex (same as rumored)
*Hunter has "Savant-Lock". When shooting at a flyer you put a marker on it for each miss. The markers stay on the flyer until it leaves the table or is destroyed. At the beginning of every friendly shooting phase you roll for those markers. On a 5 or a 6 that missle hits.
*Artwook is nice, and book is Space Marines more in a general form. More updated fluff, not just the rehashed fluff.
*Some of the classic Black and White was colored, but a lot of new art too.
*Book is in sections for each founding chapter (plus the Black Templars)) and a large number of the *Successor Chapters to help players know who should be using what rules.
*Salamanders don't really have any successor chapters because their chapter had suffered a large number of casualties so they have a larger number of Marines in their chapter.
*"Equivilant to Forge World background" in terms of fluff.
*Forgeworld fluff included in the codex.
*Warlord Traits (Only One Chart for the Codex):
1. Angel of Death - Warlord and his unit have the Fear special rule.
2. Imperium Sword - One use only. Declare that your Warlord is using this at the start of one of your assualt phases. The Warlord and his unit have the Furious Charge special rule until the end of the turn.
3. Storm of Fire - One use only. Declare that your Warlord is using this at the start of one of your shooting phases. For the duration of that phase a single friendly unit from Codex: Space Marines within 12" of the Warlord may re-roll any failed to-hit rolls.
4. Rites of War - When taking morale tests friendly units from Codex: Space Marines within 12" of the Warlord use his characteristic instead of their own.
5. Iron Resolve - When determining your assault results add +1 to your total if the Warlord is locked in that combat.
6. Champion of Humanity - If your Warlord causes the enemy Warlord to be removed from play in a challenge he scores D3 extra victory points in addition in the usual amount of points given for slaying the enemy Warlord in this scenario. Note that killing the enemy Warlord in a sweeping advance does not reward these extra victory points.
Chapter Tactics
*Successor Chapters - You use whatever chapter tactics of your parent chapter. The ONLY Exception is the Black Templar.
*Homebrew - You can pick any tactic you want and use the Special Characters of that chapter. Those characters have to use the same Chapter Tactics as the same Chapter their from.
*Allies - "A Space Marine Detachment that has one set of Chapter Tactics MAY ally with another Space Marine Detachment with a different set of Chapter Tactics, Ultramarines and Raven Guard for example. For purposes of the Allies rules these allies are treated as being from two different codexes and are treated as Battle Brothers. Note that you may field models from two different chapters that have the same Chapter Tactics, such as Ultramariens and Praetors of Orpheus in the same detachment. These chapters are so closely affiliated that they count as a single army on the battlefield."
COUNT AS: If you want to use Vulkan in a Ultramarines army you have to play use the Salamander Chapter Tactics. So you CAN do "count-as" but you lock yourself into their Chapter Tactics. In short, Special Characters are locked to their specific Chapter Tactics
Ultramarines - Combat Doctrine: This detachment can utilize each of the following combat doctrines once per game. To do so at the start of your turn you state which combat doctrine you wish to use, if any, until the start of your next turn. You can only use one combat doctrine per turn.
*Tactical: Units in this detachment re-roll ones while shooting, unless they're tactical marines and they re-roll all failed to hit rolls in the shooting phase.
*Assault: Units in this detachment can re-roll their charge range. Assault squads, bikes, or attack bikes instead have the fleet rule.
*Devastator: Units in this detachment may re-rolls to-hit on snap shots, including overwatch shots, in addition models in this detachment's Devastator squads have the relentless unless they disembarked from a transport in their movement phase.
White Scars - BOTH RULES ALL THE TIME
*Born in the Saddle: Models in this detachment with the Bike Unit Type automatically pass Dangerous Terrain tests, and recieve a +1 to their Jink Cover Saves. In addition add 1 to their Strength when resolving their Hammer of Wrath hits.
*Fight on the Move: Models in this Detachment have the Hit and Run Special Rule. Note that this does not include models in Terminator Armor, Devastator Centurions or Assault Centurions.
Imperial Fists - BOTH RULES ALL THE TIME
*Bolter Drill: Models in this detachment may re-roll all to-hit rolls of 1 made with a bolt pistol, boltgun, stormbolter, heavy bolters, or combi-weapons that are firing as boltguns. This rule does not apply to Helfire, Kraken, Vengence or Dragonfire rounds.
*Siegemasters: Models in this detachment in Devastator squads and Centurion Devastator squads have the Tank Hunter special rule and add +1 when rolling on the building damage table.
Black Templars - BOTH RULES ALL TIME
*Accept Any Challenges, No Matter the Odds: When engaged in a challenge, Black Templar Characters reroll all failed to-hit rolls, and have the Rending Special Rule.
*Crusaders: Black Templars have the Crusader and Adamantium Will Special Rules. In addition Black Templars have access to a special unit called a Crusader Squad.
Iron Hands - BOTH RULES ALL THE TIME
*The Flesh is Weak: Models in this detachment have the Feel no Pain on a 6+ Special Rule. Note that if they benefit from more than one instance of Feel no Pain they use the best version available.
*Machine Empathy: All vehicles and characters in this detachment have the It Will Not Die special rule even though vehicles do not have Chapter Tactic special rules. Furthermore, Techmarines and Masters of the Forge in this detachment add +1 to their Blessing of the Omnissiah rolls.
Salamanders - BOTH RULES ALL THE TIME
*Flamecraft: Models in this detachment can re-roll their saving throws against wounds caused by flamer weapons as defined by the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook. Furthermore, flame weapons used by models in this detachment re-roll failed to-wound rolls and armor penetration rolls that don't cause a glancing or a penetrating hit.
*Master Artisan: During the army selection each character in this detachment may upgrade on of his weapons, even one they have purchased as an upgrade, to have the Mastercrafted Special Rule at no additional cost.
Raven Guard - BOTH RULES ALL THE TIME
*Strike from the Shadows: Models in this detachment have the Scout Special Rule. In addition, on the first game turn, models in this detachment have the Stealth Special Rule. Note that units that include models with the Bulky or Very Bulky Special Rules do not benefit from either rule.
*Wings of Deliverance: Jump Infantry Models in this detachment may use their Jump Packs in both the movement and assault phases of the same turn. Futhermore, they must re-roll all failed to-wound rolls caused by their Hammer of Wrath hits.
Special Characters:
Marneus Calgar:
+25 Points
Artificer Armor standard (2+)
God of War: May use a single Combat Doctrine twice per game
Titanic Might: Re-rolls all armor penetrating hits in close combat. He may reroll glancing hits to attempt to get a penetrating hit. Must accept the second roll even if it is worse than the first.
Weapons and Ammo still the same. Terminator Armor still has Frag and Krak Grenades. Retain his Teleport Homer.
Terminator Armor is 10 points and doesn't prevent sweeping advances.Warlord Trait: Rolls 3 times on the Warlord Table, rerolling doubles, and chooses a single Warlord Trait.
Captain Cato Sicarius:
-15 points
Surprise Attack: +1 to Reserve Rolls
Weapons still the same
Battle-forged Heros: Pick a Tactical Squad and they gain Counter-Attack, Infiltrate or Scout.
May still use the Coup-de-Grace with his sword.
Lost Rites of Battle
Warlord Trait: Imperium Sword
Tigirius:
-65 points
+1 Wound
Master Psyker: May re-roll any or all of his rolls to choose which powers he knows. He has access to all the powers.
ML3
Hood of Hellfire: Psychic Hood that allows you to re-roll failed psychic tests
Rod of Tigiruis: Same as before with the addition of Soulblaze
Gift of Prescience: If your army contains Tigirius you may choose to re-roll reserves and apply the result to units of the same attachement.
Warlord Trait: Storm of Fire
Cassius:
Zealot
All equipment the same
Warlord Trait: Angel of Death
Telion:
Chapter Tactics: Ultramarines
Same points cost
Same rules
Sergeant Chronus:
-20 points
+1LD
His vehicle gains It Will not Die
Khan:
-35 points (bike is still 20 point upgrade)
Bike does D3 Hammer of Wrath hits
Furious Charge
If Khan is your warlord friendly models with the Chapter Tactics White Scars special rule that are bikes or have dedicated transports have the Scout special rule.
Khan makes all bike squads who are 5 bikes or more count as troop choices.
Warlord Trait: Champion of Humanity
Vulkan:
The Forgefather: If Vulkan is your warlord, all meltas, multi-meltas and combi-meltas in this detachment become twin-linked.
Lost Digital Weapons
No longer Master Crafts Thunderhammers
Warlord Trait: Iron Resolve
Shrike:
-10 points
Stealth
Before deploying Shrike can only join a Jump Infantry unit
Lost Fleet
Weapons stayed the same
Warlord Trait: Angel of Death
Lysander:
+30 Points
No more Bolter Defenses
Icon of Obstinancey: All models with the Imperial Fist Chapter Tactics re-roll failed morale and pinning checks
Same wargear
Warlord Trait: Champion of Humanity
Chapter Master Pedro Kantor:
+1 Attack
Oath of Rynn: If Chapter Master Kantor is your Warlord all models in Crimson Fist detachments have the Preferred Enemy (Orks) Special Rule. Furthermore, all such models within 12" of Kantor have +1 Attack while he lives. This bonus does not affector Kantor, and is not cimulative with the similar bonuses that the
Chapter Banner gives.
Still has Hold the Line: Crimson Fist Sternguard Veterans are scoring
Same Wargear and points
Warlord Trait: Iron Resolve
Helbrecht:
+5 points
+1 WS
Rites of Battle - Gone
Crusade of Wrath: Once per game, during the Assault Phase, all models with the Black Templar Chapter Tactics gain Hatred and Fleet until the end of the phase.
Sword of the High Marshalls is the same (+D3 attack on the charge)
Grimaldus:
-10 Points
-1 BS
+1 Wound
-1 Attack
It will Not Die (replaced "Only in Death Does Duty End")
Zealot
Relics of Hellsreach: Any Black Templar of a servitor in 6" gains a 6++ Invunerable save.
Unmatched Zeal: Black Templar models within of 6" of Chaplain of Grimaldus have the Zealot special rule.
Emperor's Champion:
Uses HQ Slot
+50 Points
2+/4++
Black Sword: AP2, Mastercrafted
Combat Stances: Smite the Unclean - +2 Strength, Black Sword is two-handed and unwieldy; Slay the Heretic - Rolls of 6s to wound are Instant Death
Bolt Pistol gives extra attack (unless using Smite the Unclean)
A Quick Summary of what Black Templars Gained and Lost (this list may not be complete):
Losses:
- No More Vows
- No More Marshalls or Castellans
- No More Terminator Command Squads
- No More Master of Sanctity/Reclessiarchy
- Sword Brethren are no longer units
- No More 2 Heavy Weapons in a 5 man Terminator Squad
- No More special rule upgrades (Tank Hunter, ect)
- No More Storm Shields on Assault Squads
- No More extra power weapons in bike squad
- No More Fearless in Close Combat
- No More Righteous Zeal
- Some Flavor
- Most Heavy Weapons +5 more
- No More Power of the Machine Spirt upgrade
Gains:
+ Chapter Master and Captains
+ Honor Guard
+ Regular Chaplains
+ Master of the Forge
+ Tactical Squads
+ Scout Squads
+ Land Speeder Storm
+ Vanguard
+ Sternguard
+ Ironclad Dreadnoughts
+ Centurions (Assault and Devastator)
+ Scout Bikes
+ Devastators
+ Whirlwinds
+ Hunter
+ Stalker
+ Land Raider Redeemer
+ Thunderfire Cannon
+ Crusader Squad keeps Land Raider Crusader as a Dedicated Transport
+ Initiates are 5 points cheaper (counting Frag and Krak Grenade upgrades)
+ Sword Brother option in Crusader Squad
+ Keep Initiate Power Weapon/Fist option
+ Neophyte leadership increased to Ld 8
+ Neophyte Shotguns S4
+ Crusader Squad keeps Pistol and Chainsword option
+ Crusader Squad Organization stays the same
Quick thoughts from looking at this,
The AA tank looks a little more useful but i still don't see anyone taking it because if your opponent doesnt have any flyers you just wasted 70pts
Centurions: 3 with Grav cost as much as a land raider and they're only T5 with 2 wounds and no Invuln?
warlord traits aren't blowing my skirts up
combat tactics seem nice and diverse, the Ultramarines ones seem to be the best but are also one use only
Tigurius: -65pts and +1 wound? GREAT! oh you don't know EVERY psychic power anymore... nevermind. On the otherhand he gets to re-roll for powers, and his Psychic hood is pretty amazing
I'm glad all the units are getting in line with the DA book (cheaper)
a little bummed combi-weapons doubled in price but it won't slow me down much
new tank kit is going to be the Lemon of the book without interceptor
new centurion model is a very expensive terminator without an invuln save... i dont know
i'm glad for the Imperial Fist chapter tactics, will work well with my Kantor list
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I know I'm in the minority on this point, but wow.
What they lost:
Almost everything that makes them unique.
What they gained:
Being called Space Marines behind their back.
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All of these Rumors have been confirmed as coming from the "Final" Playtest version of Space Marines and not a print copy of the Codex.
http://natfka.blogspot.com/2013/08/some-things-to-know-about-space-marine.html#more
They should be very close to the Codex but we may some differences. Just a heads up.
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Wow, those are the worst warlord powers yet. I'm shocked.
Maybe each chapter will get an awesome chapter-specific chart in the supplements?
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White scars.
*Born in the Saddle: Models in this detachment with the Bike Unit Type automatically pass Dangerous Terrain tests, and recieve a +1 to their Jink Cover Saves. In addition add 1 to their Strength when resolving their Hammer of Wrath hits.
*Fight on the Move: Models in this Detachment have the Hit and Run Special Rule. Note that this does not include models in Terminator Armor, Devastator Centurions or Assault Centurions.
-----------------------------
..... this is really crazy good. Hit and Run on everything, for free? Skilled rider and stealth on bikes for free? Wow...
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White scars.
*Born in the Saddle: Models in this detachment with the Bike Unit Type automatically pass Dangerous Terrain tests, and recieve a +1 to their Jink Cover Saves. In addition add 1 to their Strength when resolving their Hammer of Wrath hits.
*Fight on the Move: Models in this Detachment have the Hit and Run Special Rule. Note that this does not include models in Terminator Armor, Devastator Centurions or Assault Centurions.
-----------------------------
..... this is really crazy good. Hit and Run on everything, for free? Skilled rider and stealth on bikes for free? Wow...
Skilled Rider automatically grants +1 to all Jink moves so they don't have Stealth. Ya White Scars are looking good. A shame they don't have an assault oriented Bike Squad like Ravenwing though.
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Hmmm the ultramarines tatics are weak, being 1 time use but no one should complain. At least it will be used compared to tge current chapted tactic. All the other tactics are really strong for something free.
The traits.....i see 1 good one and thats number 6. A d3 extra points can win you games
And last, the hunter tank sound very good now. For 75 points, id take, keep it in reserves untill enemy flyer comes. Cause 90% of people will have something that flys. And with the savant lock rules, only helldrakes and monsterous creatures dont worry about it, unless jinking doesnt count as a miss
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Ultramarine went from crazy good to solidly situational. I feel like it might be hard to get any great mileage out of it, as you can only use one a turn. If you are charging, do you do assault to try and be sure you get there, or devastator in case you don't? :)
It's decent, but far from great. I guess they need to be happy with 6 special characters! But, if wanted to worry about popping feats, I'd play more Warmachine!
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Tigurious sounds really cool and fun, and solid if they are right about the points decrease.
Knowing all the disciplines and re-rolling your psychic powers gives you a very good chance (probably 80%? too lazy to do the math right now) of getting a given power that will be really useful in a particular battle.
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The only thing i dislike about this new system is characters i would want to take with my Crimsons Fists army (Tigurius, Telion, etc) i won't be able to because they're Ultramarine characters.
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4th Edition Codex all over again :P.
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Tigurious sounds really cool and fun, and solid if they are right about the points decrease.
Knowing all the disciplines and re-rolling your psychic powers gives you a very good chance (probably 80%? too lazy to do the math right now) of getting a given power that will be really useful in a particular battle.
He's almost an auto-include now. Expect to see him in Ultrasmurf primary lists.
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Turns out it's exactly 75% chance for Tigurius to get a given power.
Man... the more I think about this, the more excited I am getting... they are building this codex to support a great many different builds. I think we are gonna see 5+ different competitive STYLES of army out of this dex. funfunfunfun to play against.
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(http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/13627119/img/13627119.png) (http://picturepush.com/public/13627119)
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a guy with the codex in hand was doing some Q&A on bols last night though it seems he has taken a break for now.
nothing really earth shattering that wasn't already out there..
new centurians do not have an inulvn save
Telion is ultrasmurfs only
Calgar gets to ROLL for 3 warlord traits and then pick 1
SM psykers do NOT get access to divination although tigurius MAY, hopefully the guy comes back later to answer more questions
http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?35351-Ask-a-guy-with-the-early-marine-codex-anything