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Games Workshop => Warhammer 40K => Topic started by: Chase on April 09, 2015, 03:37:52 PM

Title: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k 1850pt Singles Tournament- 5/9
Post by: Chase on April 09, 2015, 03:37:52 PM
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Battleground Games & Hobbies in Plainville MA

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Format: Singles (1v1) 1850 points per person
Date: May 9th, a Saturday
Time: Please be here no later than 9:15am. Set up at 9:45am. Dice roll no later than 10:00am.
Entrance Fee: $20.00 per person


Address:
25 Taunton Street
Plainville MA 02351
508.316.1195

Google Maps (http://goo.gl/maps/urUv4)
Battleground's Facebook Page (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Abington-MA/Battleground-Games-Hobbies/68808440618)         

Contact:
Please contact me at ChaseLaq@gmail.com to sign up if and only if you can commit to playing on May 9th.




RULES FOR WARHAMMER 40K TOURNAMENT

This event will be capped at 24 players.

Rule Books:
The Warhammer 40,000 SEVENTH Edition Rules will be used.


All codices, supplements, dataslates, and formations will be allowed in this event unless otherwise noted.  If you choose to use something from a digital supplement or dataslate you MUST provide the organizers and opponents with the rules for your unit upon submission / presentation of your army list.


MODELS AND POINTS:

1. Each player must bring a BATTLE-FORGED army consisting of 1850 points or fewer (1825 min), in accordance with these rules.

• Armies may be constructed from a maximum of 2 Detachments (as defined in the 40K BRB, Formations = Detachments).

• Character Lords of War WILL be allowed at this event. All other Lords of War are NOT permitted. This means you may include character Lords of War from codices (Logan, Draigo, Ghazgul, etc.), but you cannot take any Lords of War from Escalation or other Super Heavy / Gargantuan LoW.

• Forge World and Imperial Armor lists that are 40k Approved will be legal for this event. 
If you make use of FW or IA models or units, you MUST submit the rules and point cost for them when you send in your list.

• The following fortifications may be taken as listed in Stronghold Assault (You must have the relevant rules available for your opponent upon request:
       • Aegis Defence Line
       • Imperial Bastion
       • Wall of Martyrs (WoM) Defence Line
       • WoM Defence Emplacement
       • WoM Bunker
       • WoM Firestorm Redoubt
       • WoM Vengeance Weapon Battery
       • Promethium Relay Pipes
       • Skyshield Landing Pad


2. All models must follow “What You See Is What You Get” (WYSIWYG). All weapons, war gear, and so forth must be represented on the model unless otherwise approved (see number 3).  Your models do not need to be painted but they do need to be FULLY assembled.

3. Pictures of conversions or "counts as" models must be emailed to the Tournament Organizer.  There is an expectation that your conversions or "counts as" models are "hobby quality."  No "toys" will be allowed.

8. We will require that each player submits his army list to a Battleground Tournament Organizer on or before May 4th (roughly a week before the event). We ask that players email their lists to ChaseLaq@gmail.com as soon as they are finalized. We are going to do our best to check every list before the event begins.

9. If illegal units or other rules violations are found in a player’s army list, at a minimum, the models in violation will be removed from all subsequent play. In addition, tournament points may be deducted and/or award eligibility may be forfeited. If in doubt, please ask for clarification in advance from a Battleground Tournament Organizer.


HOW THE TOURNAMENT WORKS:

• Competitors will participate in three (3) games over the course of the day. In each game, you will play a scenario and record the outcome of the battle on your results sheet. Each round you will play a different opponent.

• Each round will last 2.25 hours.  Players may begin playing as soon as they have finished deployment.

• In the first round, players will be matched up randomly. After the first round, players will be matched up according to current rankings in the tournament (based on the number of points they've scored) e.g., the team in first place will play the team in second place and so on. We will try our best not to pair players that come to the event together or regularly play each other in the first round. If a team receives a BYE they will be awarded max points.

• Slow playing will NOT be tolerated.  Players are expected to complete at least 4 rounds.  If you suspect your opponent is slow playing PLEASE notify a Battleground staff member as soon as possible as we can not do anything about alleged slow play after the fact.


BATTLES:

The SEVENTH Edition Rulebook and all FAQs will be in use for all games and will be the definitive guide for all rules. The time limit for each game is 2 hours and 15 minutes and players will have 10 minutes to deploy their armies. At the end of this time limit, the round will be called; players will need to finish the round as quickly as possible.

The scenarios we will be using for this event closely resemble the 2014 ETC missions.  We will be choosing 3 of them. (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0RtF95mf2LRbnVTdk1xNU1YOFE/edit)
If the 2015 ETC missions become available, we will be using those instead.  The link will be updated if that's the case.


What You Need to Bring with You:
-Your (hopefully painted) miniatures
-At least THREE copies of your army list
-Rulebooks and any additional books you need
-Pen and paper
-Dice and templates
-Tape measure
-Something to transport your army from table to table



Store Credit Awards will be given out to:
Store credit is good for any product in the store and all subsequent events. It never expires and will be saved for you.

Best General
Second Best General
Third Best General

Best Appearance
- Army (individual)

Smokin' Boots - You got crushed... and you deserve an award for your epic failure.


A player may only win one award. The Best Appearance awards may go to any one player participating in the event, regardless of their finish / other awards.

• A note on the Appearance award - We will award the individual who we feel has the best looking army. We will use a scoring rubric that looks at painting, basing, display boards, and various other "extras" to determine the winner.


Please email ChaseLaq@gmail.com with any questions.


(http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/11978579/img/11978579.jpg) (http://picturepush.com/public/11978579)
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k 1850pt Singles Tournament- 5/9
Post by: Bill on April 09, 2015, 07:52:39 PM
Zomg a tournament! I'll be there!
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k 1850pt Singles Tournament- 5/9
Post by: Ian Mulligan on April 09, 2015, 08:40:48 PM
gasp! if FW armies are allowed, I might attend!
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k 1850pt Singles Tournament- 5/9
Post by: Grimwulfe on April 10, 2015, 09:53:38 AM
24 only huh?
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k 1850pt Singles Tournament- 5/9
Post by: Chancetragedy on April 10, 2015, 02:25:54 PM
Ill be there
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k 1850pt Singles Tournament- 5/9
Post by: Chase on April 11, 2015, 06:27:01 AM
FW is in.

24 would be cool.  Lots of interest, only about 6 emails though.  ;)  I think we'll get our 24.

Word on the street is that 40k is a better game now than it's ever been.
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k 1850pt Singles Tournament- 5/9
Post by: Grimwulfe on April 13, 2015, 10:32:56 AM
SO FB didnt satisfy sign ups?  If not add me please.
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k 1850pt Singles Tournament- 5/9
Post by: DonRonaldo on April 13, 2015, 11:39:25 AM
some of us old people need to negotiate with families for those days...those negotiations can be lengthy and require some soul sucking....give that a week or two and you'll probably get more responses....like mine!
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k 1850pt Singles Tournament- 5/9
Post by: Pat.H on April 13, 2015, 01:29:51 PM
I actually have that day off so I should be able to go
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k 1850pt Singles Tournament- 5/9
Post by: Chase on April 13, 2015, 06:58:48 PM
SO FB didnt satisfy sign ups?  If not add me please.

The only way to register is to email me.  It allows me to easily track who has signed up, who has sent me a list, what questions people have asked, if I've answered people or not, if I need things from them or not, etc. etc.

Believe it or not, I'm pretty organized when it comes to this whole thing.  Shocking, I know.  ;)
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k 1850pt Singles Tournament- 5/9
Post by: Grimwulfe on April 14, 2015, 09:27:22 AM
LOL ok email on its way.
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k 1850pt Singles Tournament- 5/9
Post by: robpro on April 14, 2015, 04:38:15 PM
Looking forward to giving my new robutt army it's day in the sun.
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k 1850pt Singles Tournament- 5/9
Post by: Chase on April 14, 2015, 05:34:00 PM
Looks like the Space Elves will have a new book to play with right before the event.

Codex: Craftworlds will be on sale 4/24 at both Battleground locations and will be legal for the event.

You didn't hear that from me though...
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k 1850pt Singles Tournament- 5/9
Post by: Gangrel767 on April 29, 2015, 12:40:31 PM
So, officially... Craftworld Eldar is legal for this tournament?
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k 1850pt Singles Tournament- 5/9
Post by: tilarium on April 30, 2015, 01:18:43 AM
Even if I showed this weekend and started playing again I don't think I'll be at tourney level, otherwise I'd play!  I might show up to watch though!
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k 1850pt Singles Tournament- 5/9
Post by: Ian Mulligan on April 30, 2015, 01:32:00 AM
Even if I showed this weekend and started playing again I don't think I'll be at tourney level, otherwise I'd play!  I might show up to watch though!

Man, don't let that stop you. I'm terrible at this game and plan on going!
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k 1850pt Singles Tournament- 5/9
Post by: Chase on April 30, 2015, 03:37:05 AM
So, officially... Craftworld Eldar is legal for this tournament?

Yes.
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k 1850pt Singles Tournament- 5/9
Post by: Nathan B on May 01, 2015, 07:24:34 PM
Cousin's bar mitzvah in Virginia that weekend. He likes WH40K, but I'm sure he'd rather I attend his shindig...
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k 1850pt Singles Tournament- 5/9
Post by: robpro on May 10, 2015, 10:32:57 AM
Thanks to the BG staff for putting on this event! It was a lot of fun with nearly 30 people turning up for games! Looking forward to the next one in June.
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k 1850pt Singles Tournament- 5/9
Post by: BlackRoze on May 14, 2015, 01:29:20 AM
 >:( This was just another Typical Battle Ground Warhammer Tournament. The same people end up some how winning the top prizes. And random pairings. It's always funny how the armies that would do worse against each other are always paired up. So strange how that happens. And then painting. I want to laugh. I feel if you won once with an army maybe next time you play you shouldn't be able to win again with it but yet again it's one of the players who always wins and we must keep our favorites happy. Now I'm not saying the painting wasn't good but it comes down to a tie and guess what 2 of the normal winners get picked. I would also like to know who the judge is.
So doubles are coming up..here's my picks for the winners..top tables will be Alex and Todd or Sam and Bill. And if that doesn't happen most likely one of them will win painting or players choice if that comes back. Or Jarred from dark star with some partner that only wins with pairs. I'm going to guess Eldar will be the main army played maybe with a few nights depending if they allow it for they are lords of war now. Let's see how close I am on predicting the outcome of next months doubles. :o  And on a last note maybe changing how you actually score points so it equals out to how you actually play. But that makes to much sense.
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k 1850pt Singles Tournament- 5/9
Post by: Chase on May 14, 2015, 02:39:44 AM
Thanks for the feedback.  I appreciate it.  :)



Facts:

It was another typical 40k event, you're right.

We haven't had a 40k event of any kind since January, when the event was held on the same day as a snow storm.

The game of 40k has seen a lot of new things since that time.

Alex and Todd have won a lot of BG events.
 
Bill has won a lot too, although not for a while.
 
Alex, Todd, and Bill win lots of events. 

Alex, Todd, and Bill are extremely good players.

The way round 1 gets paired is as follows, it's quite technical:
- I take a deck of playing cards and pull out pairs of cards equal to the number of tables I have.
- If I have more than 13 tables I'll pull out more than 1 pair of a given number (all 4 aces, or whatever)
- I shuffle them up for a few minutes.
- I draw a card
- I mark down the corresponding number next to the name of the first person who registered for the event.
- I do this until I have no cards left.
- I sort the excel sheet by table number.
- If one table has two players that know each other well, or play in the same group, I swap the first name at that table with the first name at another table that is not also a friend or club member with the second name.

Outside of friends playing friends or club members playing club members, I couldn't care less who plays who in round 1.

Pairings in subsequent rounds are based entirely on a player's score in the rounds previous.

I do the pairings for round 1 (which has been covered).

I have no idea what army any given player is playing unless they tell me in person, which I quickly forget, here's why:
- Players email me their army lists.
- I sort them into a "label" in gmail called "40k lists."
- It's fairly common that I don't open the email at all.
- The Wednesday before the event I forward all of the "list emails" to Sam.
- Sam checks all of the lists.
- Sam emails me back if there's a problem with a list.
- I email the person and explain the problem or forward what Sam had to say.
- Usually the person makes corrections.
- I send them to Sam.

Some players send multiple lists.

I couldn't tell you what armies match up well against one another.

I have never played a game of 40k in my life.

I have purposely paired one particular player against another in round one several times.  It had nothing to do with the armies the people play.  It had everything to do with the people playing that game.  That person no longer plays at our locations and will not play at our locations again in the future.

We have no rules in place that prevent someone from winning multiple appearance awards with their army.

People are entitled to their opinions on how we do things.

Chris Scotti has won painting awards in the past.

We use a GW rubric to score appearance.  If you'd like to see it, email me.

Our paint judge for this event was Brian Frost.

Brian is an exceptional painter / artist.

Our other paint judge is Erich Ridlon.

Erich is a freelance artist who spent years painting prototype models for Hasbro at their HQ in RI.

Doubles are coming on June 27th.

I am in the process of adapting the KILLAdelphia GT scenarios such that they fit into a Doubles format.

I am not 100% sure the end result will use the KILLAdelphia stuff.

Alex and Todd pairing up would be a very difficult team to beat under normal circumstances.

Sam and Bill would be a very difficult team to beat under normal circumstances.

Choosing 4 of the (arguably) best, most accomplished, most experienced players in the region as your favorite to win a 3 round 2v2 event isn't exactly going out on a limb.

Some people are better at Doubles events than they are at Singles events.

Battleground is fortunate enough to attract quality players from out of state due to several reasons, one of which is the expected level of competition at the event.

I feel like this is a blessing and a curse (the downside being the complaints I feel obligated to respond to.  Nice troll job, btw).

Eldar are popular and powerful. 

Popular and powerful armies are usually seen more often than weak, unpopular armies.

We have and always will score points in the same (or very similar) manner as some of the largest or most competitive events in the world.

We slightly modify the scoring and scenarios if and only if it is required for a 3 round event.

I feel like the scenario packets result in giving us as close to the correct outcome of the event as can be expected in 3 rounds.

I would love suggestions from anyone, including new accounts using email addresses that mask who they are, for scenarios that properly designed, balanced, and implemented.

You're not obligated to play in any of our events.



Just email me next time.  It's easier.  Or post the complaint in our new Facebook group, which you can find here (https://www.facebook.com/groups/845161545576018/).
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k 1850pt Singles Tournament- 5/9
Post by: Mike_k on May 14, 2015, 08:59:56 AM
Sounds like someone sucks at playing and sucks at losing so they turn to sucking at conspiracy theories to make themselves feel like they don't suck...

If you had any clue how foolish what you posted sounds I am sure you would recant all of it.

Alex Fennel is one of the better 40K players on the PLANET.  Todd not only wins and places at local events he also does this at GT's and does it with outside of the box plays.

Sam and Bill are also some of the better players in in the region and possibly the country.  Both have been in consideration for ETC spots and have both won multiple local events and placed highly in many GT's.

Do not insult the people who put in the effort to not suck.  Do not insult Chase and the BG team who run some of the BEST events in the region and for a long time have been the place to come play in a tournament if you want to mash with the best.

Chris puts tons of time and effort into his painting and deserves every award he gets.

Instead of focusing on accusations, complaints, and flat out bullshit conspiracies try to focus on getting better at the game or at painting.  Instead of calling into question the store and the players, question them about what you could do better and how to advance yourself at the hobby.

This isn't Little League or grade school so no not "every child gets a chance".  If you want to win do what the winners do and earn it.
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k 1850pt Singles Tournament- 5/9
Post by: DonRonaldo on May 14, 2015, 10:01:54 AM
Huh, someone that made an account just to complain, wondering if you have another account you usually use or have the guts to post your name...

I'd love to have a real talk with you and explain this civilly over a game or hanging out on a Thursday night, but doubt that will happen so....I'll feed the troll...

I never resubmit my army for painting unless I have added to it considerably.  I have purposefully bowed out of painting before and will again if I bring the same thing twice to play.  I converted over 3 new Thuderwolves over the past few months and a new Thunderwolf commander.  I cleaned up the paint job on 11 bikes I had previously submitted to make the army more uniform. I felt this was enough of a change and I was really excited to be painting and playing again...so thanks for trying to ruin that, you didn't, but thanks for trying.

There are certain keys to winning painting, much like there are to playing and if you'd like to not hide behind a fake name, I'm more than happy to talk painting and will to anyone that will listen...I'll be there tonight as usual having a good time.  Would love to see you there!
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k 1850pt Singles Tournament- 5/9
Post by: PhoenixFire on May 14, 2015, 11:48:10 AM
I believe "BlackRoze" is Native American for "hides behind keyboard in mom's basement"

Two things are clear to me from your post..

1: you either know very little about battlegrounds,  40k, and tournaments in general or are just a massive tool.

2: playing a 40k game against you is probably about as much fun as a root canal without novocain.

I invite you to either identify yourself and apologize so we all can have a rational conversation about your tournament concerns or delete this one post coward account because if you continue this slander I have no doubts the admins will figure out your REAL account either by email or IP address and put an end to your baseless accusations.
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k 1850pt Singles Tournament- 5/9
Post by: commanderfrost on May 14, 2015, 12:01:17 PM
And then painting. I want to laugh. I feel if you won once with an army maybe next time you play you shouldn't be able to win again with it but yet again it's one of the players who always wins and we must keep our favorites happy. Now I'm not saying the painting wasn't good but it comes down to a tie and guess what 2 of the normal winners get picked. I would also like to know who the judge is.


Hi there!

I am Brian, and I judged the painting at this event. I would be happy to go over your army with you and let you know some things that would help bring your armies score up to the level of the folks that did win. 

As with most events at BG, the painting scores are incredibly tight. I am sure that you brought a great looking army, but perhaps your army doesn't play to the painting rubric as well as another players? That's something I would be happy to help any player with.

I hope you have an awesome day.

Thanks,
Brian

Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k 1850pt Singles Tournament- 5/9
Post by: Sam on May 14, 2015, 01:34:10 PM
...I have no doubts the admins will figure out your REAL account either by email or IP address and put an end to your baseless accusations.

Just figured it out. Pretty easily, in fact. But Chase already responded as needed, so I'm going to let the matter rest.

-Sam
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k 1850pt Singles Tournament- 5/9
Post by: Ian Mulligan on May 14, 2015, 02:29:04 PM
rekt
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k 1850pt Singles Tournament- 5/9
Post by: Mike D on May 14, 2015, 08:59:41 PM
Wow, someone's butt is hurt, Next time ask your opponents to lube you up first 
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k 1850pt Singles Tournament- 5/9
Post by: Benjamin on May 14, 2015, 10:51:38 PM
(http://i61.tinypic.com/ao95s7.gif)
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k 1850pt Singles Tournament- 5/9
Post by: AstartesXXVI on May 16, 2015, 02:43:39 PM
>:( This was just another Typical Battle Ground Warhammer Tournament. The same people end up some how winning the top prizes. And random pairings. It's always funny how the armies that would do worse against each other are always paired up. So strange how that happens. And then painting. I want to laugh. I feel if you won once with an army maybe next time you play you shouldn't be able to win again with it but yet again it's one of the players who always wins and we must keep our favorites happy. Now I'm not saying the painting wasn't good but it comes down to a tie and guess what 2 of the normal winners get picked. I would also like to know who the judge is.
So doubles are coming up..here's my picks for the winners..top tables will be Alex and Todd or Sam and Bill. And if that doesn't happen most likely one of them will win painting or players choice if that comes back. Or Jarred from dark star with some partner that only wins with pairs. I'm going to guess Eldar will be the main army played maybe with a few nights depending if they allow it for they are lords of war now. Let's see how close I am on predicting the outcome of next months doubles. :o  And on a last note maybe changing how you actually score points so it equals out to how you actually play. But that makes to much sense.

I actually just heard that somebody thought this was me. It isn't (I wasn't there, and if I was, everybody knows I'm not shy about using my own accounts to voice my opinion).

However, the fact I don't go to these events and see these same things are happening that pretty much always have been the default outcomes, I can see why this poster is frustrated. But that is hardly the store's fault, really. It's more the way 40k events are typically run is archaic, and the design basicallly cuts out the bottom 80-90% of players from contention almost from the start. Side effects of the traditional approach, and having extraordinarily good players and armies to contend with exacerbates the issue.

The other half of that issue is that there is a network of guys at this level or who want to be at this level and if you are someone who just plays this game without the severity of aspiring to national championship level you are generally not included in the approach, execution, or winner's circles of a given event in this environment. Leveling a critique like this (especially in the tone of that post) just gets you a lot of "bro do you even 40k" type shit in response. So whoever he is, he just learned something I did a long time ago -- talking about event reformation here is barking up the wrong tree.
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k 1850pt Singles Tournament- 5/9
Post by: Nathan B on May 16, 2015, 06:45:12 PM
Let me just throw in my support to the Battleground people, and the wider community.

Not everyone gets a turn to win. Awesome paint is awesome paint, and awesome players are awesome players. The emphasis on good painting is a good thing for our community to have and gives me something to aspire to, and these paint prizes still won't reimburse them for the time and money they spent making our games look awesomer.

As someone who missed the last tournament but has been to several, and has not won any prizes except for one fluke, I'm not the best, and so I don't expect to win. For me, tournaments are an opportunity to play against a wider variety of people than usual. I come for the love of the game. Although prizes and recognition are nice, I'm growing more mature as the years go by, and unlike my younger self, I can survive and thrive without them. I hope you (all) will continue coming to wonderful, "typical" Batleground tournaments, so I can continue experiencing the wonderful variety you all provide.

My only real complaint about Battleground is that it's almost half an hour away from me.
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k 1850pt Singles Tournament- 5/9
Post by: Tsilber on May 19, 2015, 10:51:00 AM
WOAH just saw the post. I usually feel no need to defend my self , and what people say behind my back is none of my business. But for the people who played against Ill try to save some face.

First things first, I actually lost my first round match up... As in I only scored an 8, so it was not the same ole thing, I got destroyed my round 1... Destroyed....

My first round Guy had a solid list and was in position to take 1st, 2nd, or 3rd. (he was in 3rd place going into round 3, if he got max points he would of won the whole thing, and it wasn't Alex, or Bill, Or Sam) I enjoyed that game a lot.
My second fight, the guy brought a fun themed list of Orks, he got a bad match up against me. But I like to think he had fun.
My Last fight was against duel FW sicarans (he was in 5th place going into round 3) and all sorts of awesomeness in his list, it was dreadful for 2 turns for me, and honestly some how I made a strong come back. It was a great game.



Second (and thanks to Mike K, for pointing this out, It goes a along way that it is recognized)

I try to challenge my play and my game as I move further in this hobby. I try to read what the cookie cutter net list are and avoid it, then sometimes play the same army book with a totally different concept and try to win with it.... I do things during games that are completely out of left field.... A few years ago I used Bel akor or Faty in my daemons sure, then dropped using Named IC's all together. Currently, and my list from last weekends event had 1 source (Codex DE), no formations, no lords of war, no forge world, hell I didnt even get a warlord trait as I didn't have any characters in my army. (no allies BTW, no desperate, or CtA, no BB....none...)

If playing me was not enjoyable by any of my opponents, then I do apologize, because its not my intention. If it was because my list was OP, then please let me know, I actually would welcome that feedback in all honestly.

As for your post, from behind a mask basically, it lacks integrity and the point you were trying to make (which would of looked better had you just stepped up and said it like a man , or women) looks more like a tantrum throwing child, swinging wildly at his mother as she drags him away from the candy isle at Walmart.

Most though is you found a way to insult all the other players who invest the time to go to BG, You take my first round opponent and throw his win against me out the window. He won, and If I am the 'bar' sometimes at these events, then he should be congratulated even more, not insulted.
Trust me your post does not insult me in the least. I feel your anger and smile at it... But So many people were in positions to take the top spots. There was not 5 people with max points after round 2.... The restrictions and scoring is so well done now, I guess get better and practice more whoever you are. 

P.S. A few tourneys ago Alex and myself got smashed round 1 by Sam G and Ryan Dean... So in your all knowing wisdom dont count Sam Dean out for the doubles.
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k 1850pt Singles Tournament- 5/9
Post by: robpro on May 21, 2015, 07:53:32 AM

However, the fact I don't go to these events and see these same things are happening that pretty much always have been the default outcomes, I can see why this poster is frustrated. But that is hardly the store's fault, really. It's more the way 40k events are typically run is archaic, and the design basicallly cuts out the bottom 80-90% of players from contention almost from the start. Side effects of the traditional approach, and having extraordinarily good players and armies to contend with exacerbates the issue.

Do you mind elaborating? There are only so many ways to run a tournament, and typically the bottom 80-90% don't receive a prize for being in the top 1-3. Painting and Player's Choice (no PC this time, tho) usually go to people in any ranking in the tournament. If you'll note this time, Dan Bunker and myself were only 1 point away from competing for 2nd/3rd, which means that there were 5 players who could have potentially taken those positions or upset for 1st going into round 3. 5 people out of 27 having a shot at 1st in the last round doesn't seem so bad to me.

Quote
The other half of that issue is that there is a network of guys at this level or who want to be at this level and if you are someone who just plays this game without the severity of aspiring to national championship level you are generally not included in the approach, execution, or winner's circles of a given event in this environment. Leveling a critique like this (especially in the tone of that post) just gets you a lot of "bro do you even 40k" type shit in response. So whoever he is, he just learned something I did a long time ago -- talking about event reformation here is barking up the wrong tree.

Sam and Chase are pretty good at incorporating constructive feedback and they even ran an event with super heavies using some missions I helped create back when Escalation dropped (but before 7th, I forget when). I unfortunately couldn't make it to that event, but I think the handful that showed up had fun.  They even ran an attacker/defender tournament with missions another regular created.

If you have a specific critique or concern, and are willing to articulate it descriptively and constructively, I'm sure they would like to hear it. BG runs the most varied events of any game store I have regularly attended events for, and they run them quite frequently.
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k 1850pt Singles Tournament- 5/9
Post by: Benjamin on May 22, 2015, 08:53:48 AM
In part because I wanted to and in part because the scene is very competitive, it's why I always liked to design those unusual events like 500 points and Attacker/Defender. It gave the community a chance to see and play something different.

I think what disappoints me most about the problem post here is a strong desire not to play and learn against some of the best players in the area. What's a win really if you didn't beat the best? Would the person be happier if BG handed out participatory trophies to everyone?

Anyway, it's a well-known fact that you can't please some people, and it's pretty easy to move on from them.
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k 1850pt Singles Tournament- 5/9
Post by: Tsilber on May 22, 2015, 10:54:22 AM
 Well only 1 person if expressing a strong desire not to play, however is still playing...
As for what the community wants, you try out tourneys with various styles (like the 500 att/def) and see who turns up. When I started playing competitive all i wanted was more tourneys so i could pay $15 for 3 solid practice games.
   The ranter back on page 2 seems like a narcissist who feels he is better than he really is, or his painting deserves a second look, probably some net lister on top of it all...

 I like Chases tourney, and if my opinion is worth anything I would simply restrict to this.
A) 1 super heavy or LoW

B) D shot outside of 12" suffers a -1 to the D table

C) ANY reroll of saves should suffer a -2. not just a 2+ save. ANY saves.. because honestly only 3 armies can get it to go off on big units, Necrons, ELDAR, Daemons of Tzeentch.

Now those who play one of those armies will argue "well if you are going to nerf reroll of saves you need to nerf twin linked shooting also", save it.... Every army has access to one of the following. preferred enemy, divination, or twin linked shooting.

-Todd
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k 1850pt Singles Tournament- 5/9
Post by: AstartesXXVI on May 22, 2015, 06:53:30 PM
Quote from: RobPro
Do you mind elaborating?
Not particularly, but I doubt anybody here is interested.  My thoughts aren't directly relevant to the BG format or anything...just the broader "3 rounds, scores for win/loss/draw, pair by scores" skeleton of most 40k events. I just want to see some change, personally, to make it slightly more forgiving if you aren't hardcore -- just so it's more inclusive, really.

I've seen too many events that basically, for those floating folks in the middle of the scoreboard, come down to hoping other guys are equal or worse than you once you lose or draw in a round. So if you lose early, or another guy wins big early (if say massacres are worth extra points or some such), you're basically almost automatically out of contention (this is of course better these days, with varied armies and better missions).

Now if it was your goal to be a contender for top stuff this can be disappointing, but if you are someone like me who just considers it a way of measuring my own abilities its hardly an issue. A tournament is still gonna be three solid games, as Todd said. However, in this regard I'm of the mind (and perhaps wrongly, of course -- I'm not an expert here) that I've seen some where you could probably have had a "the minute you score a loss, just go home" rule and gotten similar if not identical results. But again, that's not really relevant to BG or this event -- just overall tournament design.
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k 1850pt Singles Tournament- 5/9
Post by: Tsilber on May 22, 2015, 11:24:45 PM
...not to banter with you, but I lost my first game at this event and still climbed back into second by the end... And going into the final round I dont think anyone had max points, as well as a lot of people were still in contention to place. So it is changing, a person who loses one of his 3 has a chance. Im not sure if you meant something else, but it seems like the point was moot.
  I understand a lot of peoples mentality with GW is "hurry up, SLOW DOWN!" As in give more updates, codex, rules, whatevs, then before giving anything a shot the same people are " woah.... slow down with this GW"
   BG has made some great changes. They will never please anyone, and 20+ attendance per tourney in the 3 years i been playing in them at BG is damn good.
   Keep up the good work guys, what ever standards, rules or restriction you apply know I will still come, support and have fun.
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k 1850pt Singles Tournament- 5/9
Post by: AstartesXXVI on May 23, 2015, 01:17:56 AM
Quote
...not to banter with you, but I lost my first game at this event and still climbed back into second by the end... And going into the final round I dont think anyone had max points, as well as a lot of people were still in contention to place. So it is changing, a person who loses one of his 3 has a chance. Im not sure if you meant something else, but it seems like the point was moot.
In this event, definitely was moot. I was just saying, these are sort of my usual suspects of why events can feel a little unforgiving. I didn't really mean to imply that THIS event had these problems, obviously I wasn't there. Heard very good things though. Several people in contention and a person losing a round and still pulling off a placement is great news all around.

It's possible a big part of this was because there wasn't anybody at max points, which is kind of what I was getting at -- I'm sure if there were a couple, it might have thrown things off for at least some guys who were otherwise in legit contention. Of course that isn't a problem, I just figure that is what led to some of the OP's comments. I've definitely been to some events where losing in the first round might as well have come with a ticket home.

Of course that's not really a problem, like I was saying before -- it was more just that it is kind of unforgiving at times. It is good that the field was tighter because a lot of the stuff I mentioned goes away in these cases.

All around I heard nothing but good things about the event, really. I say keep up the good work; you guys as players and BG running events are the gold standard locally, one random guy hating shouldn't change the course.
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k 1850pt Singles Tournament- 5/9
Post by: Tsilber on May 23, 2015, 07:45:15 AM
 I understand what your saying  ;)
Thankfully for many, things are changing in the tourney scene to make it more balance, this event is a marking point of that

Hope you can show up to the next one. I just enjoy playing at BG and their tourneys, seeing the people, and getting 3 solid games in. This is my FLaGS, and favorite crowd, and Im 2 hours away.



Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k 1850pt Singles Tournament- 5/9
Post by: Nathan B on May 23, 2015, 10:55:08 AM
Let's not forget that casual games exist, where you can try something new or different.

I have ONE gripe with the tourneys: the time limit. If each game got another quarter hour, we could get 5-6 rounds in more often, what with how the game speeds up when there are less units.
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k 1850pt Singles Tournament- 5/9
Post by: Dan Bunker on May 23, 2015, 01:26:02 PM
lol, just logged onto the forums and read the post from page 2.
I find it funny that this person would be mad that the same people are always placing high. As someone who consistently comes in around 4-5th place I appreciate the chance to play against players better then I am to better refine my game. Sometimes I can pull out a win but either way I can take something away from the game.
There were people with new armies that were painted very nicely. As someone who doesn't put much effort into painting lately I couldn't care less about those awards. For the record I think they got it right as Chris's army always looks fantastic.

Sam/Chase, I had a blast at the last event. please don't let that person discourage you from running events. We went months without one and I would hate to see you hold off because of that.
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k 1850pt Singles Tournament- 5/9
Post by: Benjamin on May 25, 2015, 12:21:05 PM
Sam/Chase, I had a blast at the last event. please don't let that person discourage you from running events. We went months without one and I would hate to see you hold off because of that.
That person will not discourage BG in the slightest.
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k 1850pt Singles Tournament- 5/9
Post by: Chase on May 25, 2015, 07:03:03 PM
We're used to the complaints, they're more frustrating than discouraging.  It's impossible to do anything related to 40k without someone being unhappy about something.  That's just the nature of the beast these days.

There's a lot of great feedback and perspective in this thread.  It is valuable and is being heard.
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k 1850pt Singles Tournament- 5/9
Post by: Chase on May 25, 2015, 09:07:04 PM
Todd, we're debating your suggestions on Facebook as of a couple minutes ago.

People can see the discussion here:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/845161545576018/?fref=nf
Title: Re: [Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k 1850pt Singles Tournament- 5/9
Post by: Tsilber on May 25, 2015, 09:31:12 PM
 I only have facebook for my business, no personal one so I can not participate.

Just know Chase, I enjoy your events and regardless of rules or restrictions i will continue playing at your tourneys as long as I am welcome.
Cheers
-Todd

P.S. do keep me posted on how my suggestion was received.

P.S.S. i just edited my suggestion post above for the "third army" looks like i forgot to add eldar getting the reroll saves, ridiculousness on big units also, but im sure most new that was the third army i was referring to.