Battleground Games Forum
Games Workshop => Warhammer 40K => Topic started by: the_trooper on October 26, 2009, 12:05:13 PM
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October's almost over. I think the time to talk trash (and organize) the annual megabattle may be upon us.
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I'm gonna stay chaos until we win one!
Hell Yeah!
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yo mama jokes upon all who oppose me in this event!!!
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Since I am not sure what you play I have no idea if I am opposing you.
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To a near certainty, Battleground is about to acquire a 8-10,000 sq. ft. facility/store in Everett (just north of Boston). We are not moving our current store; this will be a second location.
I mention it here in this thread because I'd like to see how the local community would feel about having the annual megabattle there so that we are not crowded into our Abington location. Hosting the event at the Everett store would allow us for a table of any length and configuration we desire. The space is HUGE. For some frame of reference, it's about 6 or 7 times the size of Battleground, Abington.
The new location also has it's own parking lot, so you won't have to worry about street or meter parking. It takes about 35 minutes to get there from Abington.
Thoughts?
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I am happy to report that Grand Master Steve D. approves this message.
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hopefully ill have a car by then, but ill be down for that as long as i have means to get up there (as usual lol)
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Lee, I'll drive you up. ;)
I'm game for what ever is easier. If this place is so big, I hope there is a shrine to Steve D (as there should be).
Also congratulations on the expansion!
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cool thanks rich. we need to get a game in soon.
and yeah, grats on the new store!
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it would be sweet not to stand in a packed room full of smelly guys. the b.o. smell of nurgle that permeates from the chaos side as they sweat it out knowing they are going to lose becomes unbearable as the day progesses. it would be awesome to have a place to stand that isn't right next to those degenerates. everett sounds good
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Congratulations on the new 10-20!!
Do you need any terrain/work done for the Megabattle? Let me know how I can help?
Is there going to be a Battlefleet Gothic component th the Megabattle?
John
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I would like to ask any players involved in the mega battles just a quick question?
How many of the order players armies are usually smashed to little gooey bits by the end of the melee? I mean sure you guys one the day based on objectives.... But much like the nerd with a 4.0, yes you got an A on the last test but ya still went home with your undies firmly wedged in a place that would take some form of miner's tools to dig out.
Ha! (insert emoticon of a obnoxious smiley face) :p (mission accomplished)
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Everett is more convenient for me...
How many points does each person bring for megabattle? ...regular force-org chart? ...apocalypse formations?
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Everett is more convenient for me...
How many points does each person bring for megabattle? ...regular force-org chart? ...apocalypse formations?
I bielieve it is 4,000 points with Apocolype charts
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I would like to ask any players involved in the mega battles just a quick question?
How many of the order players armies are usually smashed to little gooey bits by the end of the melee? I mean sure you guys one the day based on objectives.... But much like the nerd with a 4.0, yes you got an A on the last test but ya still went home with your undies firmly wedged in a place that would take some form of miner's tools to dig out.
Ha! (insert emoticon of a obnoxious smiley face) :p (mission accomplished)
You mean the 4000 points of terminators and baneblade I still had standing at the end of last year? I think i may have bits of ork in the chainfists, or some dark eldar still stuck to the lightning claws....no, i dont see any bits of space wolf. sorry Kev, ;D
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hmmm, I do believe last time you saw me on the field of a mega battle I house trained your little puppies. Or was that someone else's dreadnought I threw around like a toy?
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So we're finally nearing that time... I love it.
I'd say let the scheming begin, but I'm pretty sure it's been going on since the last game..
Let's see if it pays off this year.....
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It was a vindicator. Dropped straight back where I had it parked. Though gazgul did rape a thunderhammer squad.
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Bigger space? Oooooooo more room for pylons (yes that was plural).
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hmmm, I do believe last time you saw me on the field of a mega battle I house trained your little puppies. Or was that someone else's dreadnought I threw around like a toy?
1st mega battle it was my poor, hadn't even fired a shot ever dread that you chucked into lava. Took weeks to recover that poor bastard outta there and now he complains about it's too cold. Thanks Kev! ;D
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For those of use that have never done the Mega Battle can some please give me the low down on what is the deal. Im interesated and can definitly field the points but I have never done a Mega Battle before and dont know when or what to expect.
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That. Is. Awesome!
Congratulations on the new place, Derek! *Fingers crossed* I would love to see it when it's ready.
Hopefully, my Space Marines will be ready by that point, but to accrue 4000 points for a game? Damn, and I thought buying 2000 points worth the first week I got into the game was excessive. :P
Hope all's well with everyone in MA!
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Basically the low down on the event is this: Each player brings a set point value that Derek usually sets about a monoth or so before the actual game. The value has varried in the past two years, last year I believe it was 4500 pts. There is no force organization chart for you to follow, as per the apocalypse rules.
There is always talk of super heavies, basically we have not done anything to limit them yet. So if you got one or more bring'em. The only real restriction is that you need to bring to rules to whatever you plan to field. There is usually a message board of email link started a few weeks before to kind of organize the teams.
There are two teams Order vs Disorder, its fairly easy to determine what army falls on what team. Thats about it. We use the current rules for 40k.
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For those of use that have never done the Mega Battle can some please give me the low down on what is the deal. Im interesated and can definitly field the points but I have never done a Mega Battle before and dont know when or what to expect.
Let's start with some pictures of last year's table set up. http://polyticks.com/Mega/table2.htm (http://polyticks.com/Mega/table2.htm). Nine tables. More players per table than there were tables. Each player gets a good size chunk of a table to set up in. Last year, order defended along the inside edge. Chaos came in from the outside. Apocalypse rules.
With 4000 points a player (and every year numbers might be a little different), a lot of people come in with expensive units. Even with lots of tables, it can be crowded with all the models. You might see one player coming in with mostly terminators, another with four titans. You do see lots of superheavies and titans. They aren't required, but they are common.
We had several superheavies blow up big time last year, taking half a table's worth of stuff with them. That creates room for maneuver, though you might not have stuff left to maneuver with.
Last year, every table had an objective, though quite a few of them got destroyed in play. Once a game turn, you got a battle point for possessing an objective. Chaos grabbed first turn, blew away a lot of stuff, and sent forth quite a few overwhelming assaults. In many areas, Order felt on the defensive, but scoring took place after their turn, so they had an advantage in claiming the battle points. Order pulled off some hairy stuff at the end of the game to collect more battle points, but lots of blood was collected for the blood god.
If you look at the deployment zones, the tables at the corners of last year's set up had a lot more room for one side than the other. The result was local advantages of something like 3 to 1 in deployment area which translated (given the crowded tables) into one side or the other being heavily outnumbered. This gave one the chance to play either the valiantly outnumbered hero, or the outnumbering hoard... assuming one could see in advance what was likely to happen. Over all it balanced out, and the outnumbered forces were frequently reinforced, but the uneven deployment scheme resulted in a interesting imbalances, with one force having the advantage here, the other there.
There were some spectacular charges. At the city corners, we had a necron hoard army on one side playing hammer, while a tyranid hoard played the other hammer. Very scenic.
You get memories. I deployed facing off against four orc stompas, which tends to make one nervous, but fortunately got lots of help from my flanks. One of the stompas went supernova in the middle of my lines, wiping out everything save a farseer, avatar and my superheavy. I had a squadron of three flyers up. In the last two turns they flew to objectives and helped clear the enemy from getting key victory points. My more or less normal models didn't do a heck of a lot, but I did get a shining spear charge hitting home against a worthy warboss and escort opposition. My superheavy got targeted by a strength 8 missile with absurdly long range, fired from 4 tables away. I think it took four sixes in a row, but the thing got a one shot kill. With so many dice being rolled, stuff happens.
It's not for everybody. There is not a little hurry up and wait. Coordinating that many players is a job. Still, you have to try it at least once.
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the megabattle was fun last year, even though i basically single handedly lost the game for our team :-[ thanks to some bad advice on which turn i should corrupt and despoil.... but that stuff happens. its not a game for the impatient (take it from me, id move like 5 models due to my playstyle, and then have to wait for EVERYONE ELSE!). and if you dont like half your army to be wiped out in one turn its also not for you. im hoping we can get the rules all set before the battle so no unexpected rule changes come into effect like last time, but other than that, its a great time.
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and if you dont like half your army to be wiped out in one turn its also not for you.
That reminds me. I need about 50 or so more stormsheilds. ;)
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Sounds like Fun. WHen is it?
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the megabattle was fun last year, even though i basically single handedly lost the game for our team :-[ thanks to some bad advice on which turn i should corrupt and despoil.... but that stuff happens. its not a game for the impatient (take it from me, id move like 5 models due to my playstyle, and then have to wait for EVERYONE ELSE!). and if you dont like half your army to be wiped out in one turn its also not for you. im hoping we can get the rules all set before the battle so no unexpected rule changes come into effect like last time, but other than that, its a great time.
Talk about taking credit, the forces of order on the other hand did nothing to influence the battle .... Sheesh
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Talk about taking credit, the forces of order on the other hand did nothing to influence the battle .... Sheesh
well i was blatently holding my objective for at least 3 turns if not the whole game... how many points did we lose by? 2 or 3! so i pooped on the objective too early... tho im sure if it came down to the nitty gritty and i DID hold it, you guys would have TRIED to stop me muahahahaha!
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Talk about taking credit, the forces of order on the other hand did nothing to influence the battle .... Sheesh
well i was blatently holding my objective for at least 3 turns if not the whole game... how many points did we lose by? 2 or 3! so i pooped on the objective too early... tho im sure if it came down to the nitty gritty and i DID hold it, you guys would have TRIED to stop me muahahahaha!
Yah. I was really glad you pooped early. I really didn't want to have to fight chaos in close.
Last year, the game was held in the second week of January. This year, who knows?
Found a Flickr link to some pictures of last year's fight. http://www.flickr.com/photos/22812511@N05/sets/72157612411946857/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/22812511@N05/sets/72157612411946857/)
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Congrats on the new location. I do not mind if the annual battle would be there. I think the more space the better. It will allow BG to give us more options for table set up and configurations. Can;t wait to see the location.
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hopefully it also means more points. a gradual increase in points through the years is nice
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(http://www.foreveramber.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/gingers-with-weapons.jpg)
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ill show you a wand!............. wait what?!?!
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ha ha ha a poop wand
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looks like this year I will grace the table with the World Eaters chaos legion and any toys i can give em.
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whatever traitor, judas, benidict arnold
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looks like this year I will grace the table with the World Eaters chaos legion and any toys i can give em.
So no Orlandu this year? Boooooo!
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Hey all, figured I'd make my first post ever in response to the MegaBattle.
I've played against many of you, albeit it was years ago. Used to be a regular...
Anyways, me and my Eldar want in for this year if possible. I've stopped by on the last two, wanted to play badly.
Any spots open?
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Always spots open, This year Derek is aiming for 40 players
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Sweet!
That's Awesome. We got a date narrowed down yet?
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No date yet. We need to figure through quite a bit before we can nail down a date.
So much to do... /sigh.
We will get you a date as soon as we can.
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looks like this year I will grace the table with the World Eaters chaos legion and any toys i can give em.
So no Orlandu this year? Boooooo!
no I wont be using Howling griffons so Thunder Hawk Orlando is not going to be coming.
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no I wont be using Howling griffons so Thunder Hawk Orlando is not going to be coming.
This saddens me, Steve. The Thunderhawk might be THE most iconic model in megabattle history. Even An'grath or Ron's pylon can't claim as much fame as Steve D's Thunderhawk.
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No date yet. We need to figure through quite a bit before we can nail down a date.
So much to do... /sigh.
We will get you a date as soon as we can.
Lol no kidding, the video from last year hasn't even made an appearance lol :P
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Yea, I wanna see that video ASAP. Please tell me we have a slow motion scene with Lee declaring his asset. Like watching a car accident between a bus of nuns and a truck with baby cows crashing into each other going off a bridge and landing into a under funded orphanage.
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lee was like i defile the objective and it was like
(http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/sabrehockeylw30/GingerKids.png)
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I love how much I got owned when I said very clearly "I'M POOPING ON THE OBJECIVE" and someone else says "thats in the assault phase" that was quite humorous
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i have heard many different things, steve d, is it good or bad. traitor or not. am i going to have to build my emperor titan along with cookie to take you out turn 1 or 2 or not. 2 emperors twice the fun.
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An'ggrath never killed an Emperor titan before. This would be fun. ;D
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An'ggrath never killed an Emperor titan before. This would be fun. ;D
You'll never get the chance to take out our Emperor's Blssed Warmachines! Not with numerous and healthy meat shields, I mean Marines and guards, to stand before you. ::) haha!
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Lol aangrath will simply fly over them!
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Lol aangrath will simply fly over them!
And Skabeithrax will rot them away.
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I love the megabattle.
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You just love the smacktalk :P
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Speaking of the big man rich, what are your plans with him? Was gna try to get my own, but saving moolah has been tough...
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And Skabeithrax will rot them away.
Meaning he'll not use deoderant for afew days and just stink us right out. A tactic Rich knows well. :P j/k
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Lol aangrath will simply fly over them!
And Skabeithrax will rot them away.
Dressing up again are we?
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Showering is for the weak!
Lee, I plan on painting him more once I get my list in line and letting you borrow him if you don't have time / money to get him.
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Sweet deal yo. Ill try to get my own too tho
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maybe the grey knights will come out just to f him up.
or maybe the pheonix court of khaine.
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last line on An'Ggraths datasheet, "Worlds have fallen beneath An'Ggrath's cloven hooves before the Grey Knights were able to F him up."
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Just be sure they, you know, don't go after those Necrons. :P
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or the other deamons right? its no longer my responsibility to win the game for the imperium
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or the other deamons right? its no longer my responsibility to win the game for the imperium
That's right the Ginger thinks he can take care of that himself thankyou very much.
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Just wondering, how many elite/fast attack/heavy choices did each player get last year? It still only 3 each? Also how many points each?
Trying to plan things out...
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Force Organization rules no longer apply in Apocalypse. You can bring 30 Heavy support choices from your codex if you want.
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Amen...
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unless you hear otherwise from chase or derek I would plan on making a list of no more than 4k
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Yeah, try to stick to 4k for now.
This is very likely to change but like Kev said, we will be going with that for now.
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Yeah, try to stick to 4k for now.
This is very likely to change but like Kev said, we will be going with that for now.
please don't change it...I can barely make 4K
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You can just give more points to Rob... and he'll bring another titan. :P
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bryan I wouldn't worry too much, even if all you have is 4k in a normal game when you start adding in the data sheets points start to go up.
You should really check out the GW website for some of the data sheets and just ask around at the store to see copies of the apocalypse and reloaded books. It can give you some ideas of what you might want to bring.
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Hey, I was wondering; if I play Daemons, can I make my own Daemonic Chaos Titan and says it counts as a regular Chaos Titan and then stomp it around the battlefield?
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Yeah, just make sure it has roughly similar dimensions and it is relatively obvious it is what it is. When you can't tell the front armor from the back it makes the game a bit tedious. ;)
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To basically cllarify for everyone who is inquiring about what they can use, in apocalypse you can basically do whatever you want as long as you pay the points for it. There's no force org chart so you could run 50 chaplains if you wanted.. you could also run orks with inducted dark eldar if you wanted. I hope this clarifies any questions as to what you are restricted to or what not.
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ladies and gentlemen, a ginger just dropped knowledge on your heads. I think this is one of the signs of the end of times.
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You can just give more points to Rob... and he'll bring another titan. :P
Or any of us for that matter, I could bring more terminators or a baneblade. ::). I'm sure guard players have plenty of tanks.
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Yeah, just make sure it has roughly similar dimensions and it is relatively obvious it is what it is. When you can't tell the front armor from the back it makes the game a bit tedious. ;)
Ignore him, you boys get enough Toys without stealing from the emperor. If you play Demons you just have to bring tons and tons of small squishy things, led by a fair number of ridiculously ugly not so squishy things... now that's the real deal... er Honest
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Yeah, just make sure it has roughly similar dimensions and it is relatively obvious it is what it is. When you can't tell the front armor from the back it makes the game a bit tedious. ;)
Ignore him, you boys get enough Toys without stealing from the emperor. If you play Demons you just have to bring tons and tons of small squishy things, led by a fair number of ridiculously ugly not so squishy things... now that's the real deal... er Honest
You know, all chaos warhounds and reavers are essentially possessed by daemons. We took em when all the smart people fled from the false emperor's lies.
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if its a deamon it would proboly be more likely to be a gargantuan creature then something with an armour value.
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I think you just closed your eyes and turned the page when you came across soulgrinders and defilers. :P
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Oooh! You just got served!
And don't forget demonic posesssion for regular vehicles!
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ooooooo demonic rhinos of dooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooom!
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Hey, nothing wrong with possessed rhinos!
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Hey, nothing wrong with possessed rhinos!
Yeah if you want to pay 60 points each rhino
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To basically cllarify for everyone who is inquiring about what they can use, in apocalypse you can basically do whatever you want as long as you pay the points for it. There's no force org chart so you could run 50 chaplains if you wanted.. you could also run orks with inducted dark eldar if you wanted. I hope this clarifies any questions as to what you are restricted to or what not.
Some sort of theme is nice. Also, we try to be painted. This is supposed to be a grand show. Make it pretty... or ugly... or whatever.
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Blantyr is right, theme is pretty big for this event, as is the pressure for painting.
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So do we have an approximate date for it yet? The more notice I have for this, the better and easier it will be for me to plan it. Having the units and troops ready won't be a problem, it's just that I have to travel quite a distance for it.
Derek?? Chase?? ::)
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Blantyr is right, theme is pretty big for this event, as is the pressure for painting.
No arguments here. Having your stuff painted really makes the the whole battle a great site. But please be done ahead of time, and don't feel so pressured that you lose sleep. Painting till 4am the morning of, does not make for a good day...
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We don't have a date yet.
I promise that we will let everyone know exactly when the Megabattle is as soon as we know ourselves.
For now, let's stick with "Q1 2010" (probably Feb.)
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Blantyr is right, theme is pretty big for this event, as is the pressure for painting.
No arguments here. Having your stuff painted really makes the the whole battle a great site. But please be done ahead of time, and don't feel so pressured that you lose sleep. Painting till 4am the morning of, does not make for a good day...
Lol was this directed at me chris and paul?
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for the megabattle, do I have to own the apocolapse rulebook or is it ok if I just know the rules?
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for the megabattle, do I have to own the apocolapse rulebook or is it ok if I just know the rules?
You just need to know the rules. A lot of the people don't even own it. Its just good to have...
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<--- is a big fan of owning the books who's rules you plan to use.
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Actually thanks chase for clarifying. If you are using any datasheets or anything else like it, make sure you have the rules handy so there's no mid battle confusion on rules.
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I love Lee's child like innocence.
Yeah, go get the book, it will support a good cause (the gaming space). It was said that the rules are needed to play since, well, it will make for a slow game if you don't have them at the ready and if there is a discrepancy in the rules, the book will clarify.
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What do you mean by child like innocence? I am a man and will be treated as such lolol.
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What do you mean by child like innocence? I am a ginger and will be treated as such lolol.
Fixed. How could you make such a mistake?
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<--- is a big fan of owning the books who's rules you plan to use.
Which reminds me...Chase I ordered a 5th edition book. Wondered if it came in.
And for the record nothing wrong with possesed rhinos...they blow up nicly. haha! ;D
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ya the ginger man (http://www.onegoodbumblebee.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/gingerbread_man.jpg)
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<--- is a big fan of owning the books who's rules you plan to use.
Which reminds me...Chase I ordered a 5th edition book. Wondered if it came in.
And for the record nothing wrong with possesed rhinos...they blow up nicly. haha! ;D
I'm not at the store right now, but I'm almost positive there is one there for you, Doug.
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Maybe we should rename this thread to the annual ginger bash....
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Maybe we should rename this thread to the annual ginger bash....
I think not. That would imply that at some point in the year it would be improper to bash gingers.
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and i don't need a thread to go out and bash gingers but it would be usefull to strangle them with.
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The most important part is to remember how much more handsome Team Disorder is than Team Order.
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And more badass!
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Maybe we should rename this thread to the annual ginger bash....
Its all good, I take it as a compliment. I'm just that popular/ infamous that it makes people take time out of their lives to include me in it lol. I win!
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Poor guy wasn't held enough when he was younger. After this megabattle, you will be on a Palaquin of NERDS as you will despoil properly!
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Lol IF I take despoil again lol
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And more badass!
Yet Disorder has yet to actually win. Why is that? :P Rumor has it that its becuase of the gingers that they have on their side. Any truth to that one? haha!
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Alrite, it was my fault last year. But the year before..... there was no excuse. And its ginger singular, not plural lol
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The most important part is to remember how much more handsome Team Disorder is than Team Order.
Hmm, not sure I've ever bothered to look at my team mates and decide if they're handsome or not, but this is massachusetts, so if that's what floats your boat, I won't judge...
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It is official. I shall be using Ultramarines 4th company. Also I shall be showing up with Imperial Navy. Also is BFG still going to be tied into the mega battle some how?
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It is official. I shall be using Ultramarines 4th company. Also I shall be showing up with Imperial Navy. Also is BFG still going to be tied into the mega battle some how?
does that mean that you will be using the thunderhawk?
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It is official. I shall be using Ultramarines 4th company. Also I shall be showing up with Imperial Navy. Also is BFG still going to be tied into the mega battle some how?
does that mean that you will be using the thunderhawk?
negative. shes painted up in howling griffons colors. I want to field the 4th company of Ultra Marines and Imperial Navy.
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It is official. I shall be using Ultramarines 4th company. Also I shall be showing up with Imperial Navy. Also is BFG still going to be tied into the mega battle some how?
Maybe we'll have our 2nd & 4th Company showdown afterall, Steve. A shame that it probably won't happen until the Megabattle though. ::)
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We will see Ben no worries. I do ask again out of curiousity, will BFG be apart of the battle?
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yes there will be big freakin guns
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Lol and the big friendly (well somewhat friendly) giant scabiathrax will be there as well!
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Awww Big Friendly Giant, I loved that book!
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not what I meant..... :-\
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We will see Ben no worries. I do ask again out of curiousity, will BFG be apart of the battle?
Official answer (because i've just decided what it is) = I'm not sure.
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big fat guys, don't be mean everyone is allowed to play no matter what thier size
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big fat guys, don't be mean everyone is allowed to play no matter what thier size
Size doesn't matter... It's how you use it that counts ;)
...right?.... :P
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big fat guys, don't be mean everyone is allowed to play no matter what thier size
Size doesn't matter... It's how you use it that counts ;)
...right?.... :P
that puts me at a disadvantage then...
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big fat guys, don't be mean everyone is allowed to play no matter what thier size
Size doesn't matter... It's how you use it that counts ;)
...right?.... :P
That get's us back to the despoil comments, from earlier.
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How the hell did we get on penis innuendo? I just wanna talk about 40k and we get this nonsense? Wow guys wow... :P
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Probably because Rich started to post.
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Size does matter, as an ax the size of a dreadnought will be cleaving your titans in two.
In the end you will all accept the lord of decay as your headless corpses scatter the ground you fight for.
Chaos is inevitable, much like Lee's inability to keep things family friendly.
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Sorry if I offended you rich with your baby virgin ears lol. I forget its a family forum sometimes.
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I'm referencing the Lee unable to censor himself at BG bit. You would try, then follow up with an f-bomb when we would call you on it, only making it worse.
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I have sailor mouth... if I didn't get sea sick, it'd be a perfect job for me!
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do gingers vomit red too?
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Only when I drink lots of fruit punch or my stomach is bleeding ;)
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um....you are all disgusting herritics or something! For the Emperor and all that!
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Screw the emperor. I will take a big nurgly fart right in his mouth! How's that for disgusting!
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You gotta get by all the: Countless imperial guard, Space Marines, Inquisitorial forces, Titan legions, and the vast Imperial Navy, before you get to the Emperor and fart on him.
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O but when he does..... Ginger farts are the worst. Something about them lacking a soul causes them to make the worst of bodily odors. O, that could be the next myth busters... "Gingers! whats that smell?..."
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this is ginger (http://farm1.static.flickr.com/182/443161716_f4cabc756c.jpg)
just imagine what comes out of him when he really despoiles things
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Seth whos side are you on?
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He is RPing well, you know, everyone could be the enemy to him since he is inquisition.
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O We're RP'ing now!!!!
I get to be an Ork Nob....
Crap Orks are iliterate, I guess I screwed the squig on that one.
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Question on the Terminus Ultras:
How many men can it carry, if it can carry any at all? I haven't read anywhere where it mentions a carrying capacity, and didn't want to presume it just did like a normal Land Raider would. I did read somewhere on another forum though, that it CAN NOT carry soldiers due to it's "massive amounts of energy required to power it's Lascannons".
Can I get clarification on this from someone please? And if you could site the source, I'd appreciate that as well. Thanks!
~Ben
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The terminus has no transport capacity sadly...
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Darn... Figures. Oh well, I guess I'll just have to spend the 200 points I did on Terminators on something else. :P
Thanks, Lee!
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No problem. And terminators are always good!
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What? What are you talking about lee, terminators are terrible! >.> <.< Right?
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Yeah, if they're not nurgle marked and come in squads of 3! :P
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HEY CHAOS,
SUCK IT!
::)
Thought this was the thread of doom? Geez! Let's hear some smack talking. Just thought I'd juice this up some.
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So.... many..... taunts....... but.... family.... forum... :(.
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So.... many..... taunts....... but.... family.... forum... :(.
I can imagine you physically restraining one hand with the other.
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its like bruce banner not wanting to turn into the hulk but he can't stop it lol
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its like bruce banner not wanting to turn into the hulk but he can't stop it lol
Seriously, did you just put yourself in the same category as the Hulk?
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its like bruce banner not wanting to turn into the hulk but he can't stop it lol
Seriously, did you just put yourself in the same category as the Hulk?
Yes
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a green freckled redheaded ginger
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Isn't that the fifth horseman of the apocalypse?
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Yes
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I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest. Then another horse came out, a fiery red one. Its rider was given power to take peace from the earth and to make men slay each other. To him was given a large sword. I looked, and there before me was a black horse! Its rider was holding a pair of scales in his hand. Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying, ‘A quart of wheat for a day's wages, and three quarts of barley for a day's wages, and do not damage the oil and the wine!’ I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth. I looked, and there before me was a freckled horse with red hair as was the rider. It's rider was given the power to steal souls and make ginger kids.
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And his name was lee roby
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Word on the street is that we're gonna start talking about / building stuff for the Megabattle this coming Monday.
We've got a tentative table layout and date (Feb 20th) but we are waiting on Steve D's hotel to green light us on renting the hall and potentially a block of rooms for those of you who want to hang, chill, party, and crash after the event.
We should know much more by Monday night.
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Ahh crap. I hope its not the 20th...
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Word on the street is that we're gonna start talking about / building stuff for the Megabattle this coming Monday.
We've got a tentative table layout and date (Feb 20th) but we are waiting on Steve D's hotel to green light us on renting the hall and potentially a block of rooms for those of you who want to hang, chill, party, and crash after the event.
We should know much more by Monday night.
Getting ready for Battleground-con 2010!! Take that Game's Day!
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Most continue to built and paint for Megabattle. Most continue to built and paint for Megabattle.Most continue to built and paint for Megabattle. Most continue to built and paint for Megabattle. Most continue to built and paint for Megabattle. Most continue to built and paint for Megabattle. Most continue to built and paint for Megabattle. Most continue to built and paint for Megabattle.
Feb. 20th would be awesome. It's far enough away to plan around it. And I really don't want to miss this year. I've been planning. *evil laughs*
Most continue to built and paint for Megabattle. Most continue to built and paint for Megabattle. Most continue to built and paint for Megabattle.
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Most continue to built and paint for Megabattle. Most continue to built and paint for Megabattle.Most continue to built and paint for Megabattle. Most continue to built and paint for Megabattle. Most continue to built and paint for Megabattle. Most continue to built and paint for Megabattle. Most continue to built and paint for Megabattle. Most continue to built and paint for Megabattle.
Feb. 20th would be awesome. It's far enough away to plan around it. And I really don't want to miss this year. I've been planning. *evil laughs*
Most continue to built and paint for Megabattle. Most continue to built and paint for Megabattle. Most continue to built and paint for Megabattle.
you meant "Must" right?
I'm starting to think your heading over to the chaos side with your crazy little matras
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Most continue to built and paint for Megabattle. Most continue to built and paint for Megabattle.Most continue to built and paint for Megabattle. Most continue to built and paint for Megabattle. Most continue to built and paint for Megabattle. Most continue to built and paint for Megabattle. Most continue to built and paint for Megabattle. Most continue to built and paint for Megabattle.
Feb. 20th would be awesome. It's far enough away to plan around it. And I really don't want to miss this year. I've been planning. *evil laughs*
Most continue to built and paint for Megabattle. Most continue to built and paint for Megabattle. Most continue to built and paint for Megabattle.
you meant "Must" right?
I'm starting to think your heading over to the chaos side with your crazy little matras
You meant "mantras" right?
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Oooo RIP!
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Most continue to built and paint for Megabattle. Most continue to built and paint for Megabattle.Most continue to built and paint for Megabattle. Most continue to built and paint for Megabattle. Most continue to built and paint for Megabattle. Most continue to built and paint for Megabattle. Most continue to built and paint for Megabattle. Most continue to built and paint for Megabattle.
Feb. 20th would be awesome. It's far enough away to plan around it. And I really don't want to miss this year. I've been planning. *evil laughs*
Most continue to built and paint for Megabattle. Most continue to built and paint for Megabattle. Most continue to built and paint for Megabattle.
you meant "Must" right?
I'm starting to think your heading over to the chaos side with your crazy little matras
You meant "mantras" right?
er No :P
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Im going to talk to my sales rep when i see her next to get this written in stone.
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I do want it actually chiseled in stone, btw. I'm serious.
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Yeah....ill get a stone cutter right on that chase....
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Will there by signings in blood as well? :P
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A megabattle to the death!
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Poor team disorder. A megabattle to the death eh? I have enough swords to give my whole team at least one. Silly Ginger, I shall sliver you to put on my chinese chicken.
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Chase, will there be some megabattle discussion tonight? I have a few things to get done tonight but could swing by for a discussion if there will be one tonight.
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I miss posted my previous mocking of murph.
Order guys are wussies, disorder guys are metal.
\m/
P.S. I forget Derek's exact words but guys with swords are lame...
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I miss posted my previous mocking of murph.
Order guys are wussies, disorder guys are metal.
(http://i46.tinypic.com/n12hk6.jpg)
P.S. I forget Derek's exact words but guys with swords are lame...
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I miss posted my previous mocking of murph.
Order guys are wussies, disorder guys are metal.
\m/
P.S. I forget Derek's exact words but guys with swords are lame...
But chain sword are pretty cool
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Chain axes are better.
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I'm gonna agree with the whole chain axe thing.
There was no real discussion about the Megabattle on Monday because Derek had to go take care of something elsewhere. There was some talk about the table setup. I'm sure there was some more discussion about it tonight and they may have settled on something but I'm not sure.
What I know now...
The Megabattle will not be Feb 20th afterall, the space at Steve D's hotel was not available.
It now looks like it will take place in March, but we don't know exactly when yet.
The table will actually be 12 (or 14ish) tables (we had 9 last year).
When I left on Monday, Dec 21 the idea we had involved a bunch of "city" or "industrialized" tables... which was very different from the idea we had a couple days before that.
As you can see, a lot changes over the course of a day or two while we are in the "planning" phase.
I'll keep you all as informed as I can. Once we have a date nailed down and the room booked, sign ups will begin shortly after. We are taking 40 players on a first come, first serve basis.
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I'm gonna agree with the whole chain axe thing.
There was no real discussion about the Megabattle on Monday because Derek had to go take care of something elsewhere. There was some talk about the table setup. I'm sure there was some more discussion about it tonight and they may have settled on something but I'm not sure.
What I know now...
The Megabattle will not be Feb 20th afterall, the space at Steve D's hotel was not available.
It now looks like it will take place in March, but we don't know exactly when yet.
The table will actually be 12 (or 14ish) tables (we had 9 last year).
When I left on Monday, Dec 21 the idea we had involved a bunch of "city" or "industrialized" tables... which was very different from the idea we had a couple days before that.
As you can see, a lot changes over the course of a day or two while we are in the "planning" phase.
I'll keep you all as informed as I can. Once we have a date nailed down and the room booked, sign ups will begin shortly after. We are taking 40 players on a first come, first serve basis.
uh oh, the mega battle is going to come close to St. Paddys, not much can go wrong there :)
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I miss posted my previous mocking of murph.
Order guys are wussies, disorder guys are metal.
(http://i46.tinypic.com/n12hk6.jpg)
P.S. I forget Derek's exact words but guys with swords are lame...
I'm going to let my six year old counter this, as she did it with such style.
"Daddy, why does that girl have a beard?..."
Nuff said..
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That's not a beard! It's a shadowing from a double chin. Your daughter is mean.
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I Lol'ed
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The Megabattle will not be Feb 20th afterall, the space at Steve D's hotel was not available.
It now looks like it will take place in March, but we don't know exactly when yet.
As long as it ISN'T the weekends of the 13th or 27th, I'll be able to make it.
Thanks in advance, guys!
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I'm just glad its not the 20th. I should be able to do it any other weekend...
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Would a paper model like the large biped in this image be acceptable for a Titan in the Megabattle?
Also, any new estimate of when the battle might be? I've got a friend who might want to come up from Chicago for it, and the sooner we know when the cheaper the flight would be...
Thanks!
-Erik
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Yeah, if you can make it look like the one in that picture you're fine.
The Megabattle will be on March 13th 2010.
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Awesome, thanks for the ruling and the news!
I'll see what I can do about getting the shape right... Like if I go warhound I may try for more chicken-y legs, and I'll see what I can do about getting the weapons to look a little closer. That said, I may just go with something that's similar to what's in the picture. :)
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Same quality but you want it to look like the model it represents. I think more players would be happier with something obvious vs. something not so obvious.
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Same quality but you want it to look like the model it represents. I think more players would be happier with something obvious vs. something not so obvious.
This.
So long as it looks badass and looks like the model it represents, you're good.
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All of that makes sense, and thanks again for the direction. I'll be paying most careful attention to trying to get the weapons right since I feel like that's what could cause the greatest confusion.
"Okay, what is that generic papery cylinder again?"
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The Megabattle will be on March 13th 2010.
NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
*sigh*... Such is life... Well, barring any unforeseen circumstances, I won't be able to make it this year..... Keep your fingers crossed for me in hoping that something changes!!!
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Thanks, Anakin.
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No prob, Rich :D
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The forces of Chaos have been trash talking left and right and have some "epic plan." The Ultramarine 4th company Led by Captain Uriel Ventris is ready to take this force head on. Chaos can have its herritics but I have the currage to face you down even if it means you turning my Marines into a glob of crap. Who else has the currage to smite chaos or am I the only one?
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Captain Cato Sicarius and his 2nd company of Ultramarines would gladly take you up on that offer, but alas, he's being called elsewhere....
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the Bryan-Marine is up for the challenge
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The forces of Chaos have been trash talking left and right and have some "epic plan." The Ultramarine 4th company Led by Captain Uriel Ventris is ready to take this force head on. Chaos can have its herritics but I have the currage to face you down even if it means you turning my Marines into a glob of crap. Who else has the currage to smite chaos or am I the only one?
Win. I can imagine Uriel Ventris speaking like this.
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39 players Vs. STEVE D.
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39 players Vs. STEVE D.
So you finally figured out how to win? nice going Rich.
Sheesh, really. Steve, we like to let Chaos trash talk, it's funny. A bit like the cowardly lion in the wizard of OZ. Of course, no medals at the end, just melting....
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The forces of Chaos have been trash talking left and right and have some "epic plan." The Ultramarine 4th company Led by Captain Uriel Ventris is ready to take this force head on. Chaos can have its herritics but I have the currage to face you down even if it means you turning my Marines into a glob of crap. Who else has the currage to smite chaos or am I the only one?
Courage is the correct spelling
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Lee, let's beat them with style, not dictionaries.
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I love the Megabattle.
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Lee, let's beat them with style, not dictionaries.
But they make nice hefty sound when you smack someone with one :(
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Lee, let's beat them with style, not dictionaries.
Without doubt a new approach for you.
Mega-battles are fun...
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hey lets not over look the fact that someone just got spell checked by a ginger.
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hey lets not over look the fact that someone just got spell checked by a ginger.
Who let you off the leash?
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To quote the cowardly lion .... "Put'em up! Put'em up!"
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Keep it up and I'll keep pulling his string!
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In apocalypse games can you use 2 different codexes to field an army? IE Chaos dex for Huron and Wolf dex for the wolves that he converted?
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In apocalypse games can you use 2 different codexes to field an army? IE Chaos dex for Huron and Wolf dex for the wolves that he converted?
[/quote
Not normally, otherwise The chaos guys get upset when the inquisition turn up with a captured Angrathy type thing. The idea is to play the side you choose with the bonuses\handicaps inherent.
But it sounds fluffy, I'd say put a data sheet together, and then it can go to review :)
cheers,
Alan
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hmmmmmmm I smell a return of my Traitor Wolves :P
That was allowed for the first year so that we could have more even teams, I went Chaos with that exact thing Troy, but I believe D had said that Marines are Marines unless they are Chaos Marines. But if allowed I have a Huron Model you could borrow.
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From a purely fluff point I love this idea. If Derrick or Chase would like to chime in on this that would be great. I can put together a data sheet if that is the course of action they would like to see.
Lykosan Thanks for the offer but if I do this I want to pick up a Huron model and convert it a bit to fit my army and so on. But thanks I appreciate it.
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Yup you definently can combine codecies as long as it makes sence. For example you got Tyrinids working with something not tyrinid on your list.....you better have a good explentaion or models modeled approptiately. huron a good way to say your marines are going rouge.
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I really dig the huron story and think it would be a great way to portray my force especially because they are not painted like your standard space wolves
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I really dig the huron story and think it would be a great way to portray my force especially because they are not painted like your standard space wolves
Agreed. I see no problem with it. It accurately represents a specific force.
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Yup you definently can combine codecies as long as it makes sence. For example you got Tyrinids working with something not tyrinid on your list.....you better have a good explentaion or models modeled approptiately. huron a good way to say your marines are going rouge.
Haha... I think Steve's doing this on purpose now.... Wonder who'll bite next? :P
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It was ruled last year that if you want a traitor force it needs to be modeled that way. Idk wat the ruling on that is this year but it sounds cool if you can pull it off
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One year I am going to have Alpha Legion. They will all be modelled holding up an index finger to their lips going "Sshhhh".
"We are in disguise!"
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I don't think I like what is happening here.
Battleground REALLY REALLY wants the armies that are of the Imperium to play on the side of the Imperium. If you are playing an army of the Chaos side we want you to play on the Chaos side.
The reason for this seems really obvious to me, and I feel like the line has already been muddied (if not removed). The Imperium has the things on their side that let them be really cool and do their thing. The Chaos side has things that let them be really cool and do their thing. When one side has armies from the other side than the coolness of those things is destroyed.
I would like to encourage everyone at this point to stop thinking about playing for "the other side" with a "traitor" version of their army. I would also like people who have already thought about doing so to reconsider their position.
I really don't like it, and I feel like it is going to negatively impact the flavor of what we're trying to do in our ANNUAL CHAOS vs IMPERIUM Megabattle.
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yeah, people should play their armies, regardless of any other factors. this is a big step on the road to manlyness.
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Battleground REALLY REALLY wants the armies that are of the Imperium to play on the side of the Imperium. If you are playing an army of the Chaos side we want you to play on the Chaos side.
The reason for this seems really obvious to me, and I feel like the line has already been muddied (if not removed). The Imperium has the things on their side that let them be really cool and do their thing. The Chaos side has things that let them be really cool and do their thing. When one side has armies from the other side than the coolness of those things is destroyed.
I’m going to throw up some concerns. Some of them are the same concerns I raised last year, which were addressed to a goodly extent. Some of them fall out of last year’s fight. I’m aware that as a shooty player, I have a different perspectives than a lot of other folks out there. I seem to be in a minority in lots of ways. Others want to push the mega battle in other directions. Still, I’ll raise my concerns with reasonable faith that the organizers will manage to put on a good show.
I feel 40K is balanced for armies starting about 24 inches away from one another. Apocalypse scenarios achieve this in different ways than standard 40K. The no-man’s land is smaller in Apocalypse. The table is bigger. Depending on how the objectives are placed, the melee optimized forces might or might not have to cross kill zones controlled by opposition shooting.
I would beware placing all objectives in the center, within 6 inches of the deployment lines, then taking score every round. This would force anyone interested in accumulating victory points to play the close combat game. I’d recommend variety in objective placement.
Last year, we ended up taking score at the end of each Order phase. This was to the distinct advantage of Order. If the two sides were taking turns seizing a contested objective, the score taking took place at a time optimized for Order. This didn’t turn the game uneven. Many of the objectives were located near Disorder’s lines. Their close combat superiority and the first move made the game very close. Still, the game mechanic of giving one side or the other the advantage in collecting victory points makes me nervous. Things might plausibly get uneven.
Last year featured four ‘flank’ tables, where there was much more room for one side to deploy than the other. This resulted in some lopsided fighting. In moderation, giving one side or the other a deployment advantage might be neat. I wasn’t feeling particularly heroic, so I deployed in a location where there would be more friends than enemies. Others were feeling heroic (or perhaps didn’t foresee the consequences of the deployment scheme). More power to them. I think there is a place for uneven deployment, for giving one side or the other a local advantage. This might be done in moderation. In any given area of the battle, one might want to be careful about giving one side or the other more space to deploy.
Last year we allowed flank march on the flank tables, but did not allow flank marking into the opposition’s rear. This produced more of a feeling of having front lines than is often the case. I don’t know if this ought to be done again, or not.
There was some awkwardness with players having forces deep striking and flank marching all over the field. I don’t think we can come up with fixed hard rules saying one must keep one’s force together. Apocalypse is supposed to be wild and crazy. However, we might consider guidelines to keep flow of play up. Players might want to avoid having their forces spread out too much, and make an effort to resolve combats promptly.
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We had a playtest a while back and realised that flankmarch isn't that bad and a ruling against flankmarch being anywhere is for the weak and cowardly and I'm assuming it was considered. The other rule was the "everyone can hold objectives" rule and it wasn't bad. The objectives were my main concern last year and I thought the ruling of only troops can even CONTEST was a little rediculous. I'm hoping the new ruling on it will hold because it actually worked out perfectly. The other rule that was of concern was the timing on scoring and we swapped it out to every player turn and it worked out nicely.
As for the objectives part of it, I believe that there should be objective markers instead of giant pieces of terrain. The idea is cool, but strategically I didn't think it worked out. Point being the train station last year. Even though strategically it was a good idea on orders behalf and kudos to you guys for capitalizing on this, but the way it was shaped you couldn't draw a clear line of sight to ANYONE inside the building unless you were on the other side of it which I didn't believe was that fair and was a game turner when you are gaining 3 points a turn on something that we can't shoot at or destroy the objective... which leads to be a very boring and frustrating game for whoever is on that table when you have a bunch of marines and guardsman in rhinos in the building just sitting there having tea while everyone else is fighting. That is really my only concern though.
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Derrick i see where your going with this and do agree on some points. The only problem I see is that all of my buds and people I really enjoy playing with are going chaos. Unfortunatly this leave me in a quandry. After talking to my friends and reading the chaos codex I found a very plausible option for my black painted space wolves. And this is the Army Huron turned on the Wolf battleship.
This story is documented in the Chaos dex.
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My traitor guard are very much modeled and painted as such. As guardsmen on both sides use similar equipment, am I allowed to use the imperial guard codex?
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Derek- I thought it was the Order vs Disorder Megabattle, and not Chaos vs Imperium.
Bob - It is not that we dont see "your" side of things, but Apocolypse is meant to be a "hey guys you have a smaller no mans land to play with what are you going to do" than the standard 40k games. As to your concerns about flank mark, it works as intended. If you feel as though you will get your army wiped out by this, keep everything in reserve and come in turn 2 on whichever table you are playing on.
As for the objective thing, Derek and Chase are still working on it (or were talking about it this week) and are coming up with a way to fairly score the game.
And to the point about fluff, is the concept of traitor wolves thematically detrimental to the game to a greater extent than say unpainted armies?
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Pssst, unpainted stuff isn't to be fielded. ;)
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My traitor guard are very much modeled and painted as such. As guardsmen on both sides use similar equipment, am I allowed to use the imperial guard codex?
Hmm, I thought there was a specific traitor list in one of the Imperial Armor books, with all sorts of fun and games, from evil Ogryn to crazed psykers, why would you use the Loyalist 'dex?
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My traitor guard are very much modeled and painted as such. As guardsmen on both sides use similar equipment, am I allowed to use the imperial guard codex?
Hmm, I thought there was a specific traitor list in one of the Imperial Armor books, with all sorts of fun and games, from evil Ogryn to crazed psykers, why would you use the Loyalist 'dex?
I use the Guard codex for a number of reasons.
1. Its offical. That means I don't have to worry about opponents permission when I play pick up games. I also dont have to worry about unfamiliar rules.
2. My guardsmen are more like Bloodpact than Vraksian workers forced into battle. That means stricter structure, maintained weapons, and more elite infantry. I find the Guard codex better reflects this.
3. I prefer it over the randomness of the FW list.
If I have to use the FW list, I'll order the book and do it, I guess. I just don't understand why its a problem when the codex I'm using works fine both rules- and fluff-wise.
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cuz the fw list is for real men!!!!!!
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Maybe everyone can play on the same side and we can just all stand there and hold hands with our friends for 12 hours.
I thought the best part of this game is to show your friends the business end of your tank turrets, not stand next to them and celebrate a victory over a totally mismatched playing field.
Are Space Marines really cool as the bad guys?
I don't know... it just seems wrong to me.
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All joking aside...
Is this needless worry, or is it really an issue?
I mean, do people want to play in a game where the Orks and Tyranids can fight on the side of the Imperium/Order? Can a Tau player switch to the Chaos side so that he can play on what he feels will be the winning side?
What should Battleground's responsibility be regarding this issue?
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Hopefully people want a fluffy battle.
Fluff wise, There are space marine chapters that go renegade, but do not go over to chaos, they set up their own territories and rule until the imperium finally notices and crushes it. Same with Imperial guard, etc.
In fact, Chaos fight each other all the time, it's not unthinkable that a tzeentian warband would attack a force of khorne beserkers while they were engaging the imperium.
Really, the fluff is more or less written in a way that guarantees a good reason for any two armies to have it out with each other.
I do agree though, that this is something worth discussing -- On one hand, I'd love for everyone to be able to field the army they want and to play with the friends they want, but I can definitely see how the forces of Order get the shaft in this regard.
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My thoughts:
If you play LOYALIST Space Marines all year, its clear what side your space marines should be on in my eyes. I am not a fan of tossing one model in and being like "See! A sorcerer is leading them! RENEGADES!".
If you paint red X's over the shoulders and aquillas of all your marines and throw icon bearers in each squad and have Huron Blackheart leading them, I have less of a problem. Effort was put in to model those dudes that way. You're not chaos for a day with that. Also, you damn well better be using the CHAOS codex.
Whatever you decide to do, it needs to be done with care. I'm very interested to hear what you think about my army, specifically.
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IMPORTANT NOTE!!!
Due to a scheduling conflict at the venue, the Megabattle date has been moved to Saturday, March 20th.
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i agree with derek and ian. if your guys arent looking like they turned bad, then they arent bad! i get your argument but it is the ANNUAL MEGA BATTLE. the ultimate fight of good vs evil. as a chaos player myself, i dont wanna be put on the same side as pussy imperial marines, i wanna be teamed up with the biggest group of badasses featuring my fellow chaos gods, ork warbosses, tyranid monstrosities etc... not some damn loyalist scum that i love spreading plague and pestilence on ALL THE TIME!!!
if you want to be on the EVIL side, play chaos marines.... cuz we all know the bad guys are cooler anyway 8)
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All joking aside...
Is this needless worry, or is it really an issue?
I mean, do people want to play in a game where the Orks and Tyranids can fight on the side of the Imperium/Order? Can a Tau player switch to the Chaos side so that he can play on what he feels will be the winning side?
What should Battleground's responsibility be regarding this issue?
I'll weigh in in favor of strongly themed well painted. First, I like the mega battle as a spectacle. Whatever you bring to the board, it ought to look like what it is played like. Second, such battles are confusing enough without cross dressing.
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In my opinion the mega battle is a battle to show "good vs evil" "law vs disorder" I do agree with derrek that some one playing Clear imperial models on the chaos side is LAME. Im busting my ass to get my 4th company ready to FIGHT my friends. I dont care what side they are on Im playing a game with them and sides shouldnt matter. My opinions about modeling, If your like Ian or Rich and your imperial guard look like the stuff of nightmares then go chaos using the guard rule book. I think what Derrek is trying to say is if you clearly have loyal space marines you are using an imperial army not chaos. Personaly that agrivates me when I see people do that. I as well as many others spend time, and money to make our models appear as what they should be for an event like this. To Simply call some loyal space marines that are cearly still loyal space marines or even imperial guard for that matter is an insult to myself and im not sure who else would agree. Derrek you may want to clearify exactly what your expections are. Are you saying you DONT want chaos players to have imperial stuff even though they are very approptiately modeled or you DONT want chaos armies that look like imperial armies on the chaos side?
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Playing a giant "counts as" army can be lame.
On the other hand
Playing a giant "count as" army can be rad.
It's like when people use models which are scratch built and awesome and others do it and it looks like a kid's toy with a bad paint job.
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The can of worms has certainly been opened... Hooray!
Please consider where we are coming from as organizers for this event. Among many other things, we want to run a clean, fair event that is made up of two distinct, different sides. We defined those two sides as "Order" and "Disorder" year one, and in conversation they have been called "Order" and "Chaos" since. I'm not going to take the time to list which army we view as aligned to what side because I think we all know where they stand anyways.
Derek and I share the opinion that it is pretty lame to have Imperial Guard armies (using the Imperial Guard Codex, and all of it's options) fighting for the side of "Disorder" and against the side of "Order" in the Megabattle. We think it's lame to have Space Wolves (using the Space Wolf Codex, options, etc) fighting for the side of "Disorder" and against the side of "Order" in the Megabattle. We also think it's lame to have Space Marines (using the Space Marine Codex, options, etc) fighting for the side of "Disorder" and against the side of "Order".
In all of these instances we have the "good guys" (that we can't call good guys because of the nature of the game) fighting WITH the "bad guys" and bringing all of their options with them. If the bad guys get all the bad guy stuff AND all, most of, even some of the good guy stuff what's the point of having a separation between sides? If the "Disorder" side is going to collectively make use of a handful of "Order" codices, should the opposite be made an option to the "Order" players? If so, what's the point in dividing the sides based on our definition of "Order" vs "Disorder"? It defeats the purpose.
The problem we run into is that 40k seems to have one story for every single army combination out there. I'm sure if I spoke with Josh Tufts he could tell me about a story of some ridiculous Imperium psycher that was somehow able to manipulate some Tyranids at one point 10000 years before the Horus Heresy. Because of this, should Tyranids be allowed to play on the side of "Order"? I positive the Orks have fought alongside the Imperials against Chaos at some point in 40k fluff, history, or whatever. Should we allow Paul to play his Orks with Nick and his Ultra Marines? Again, I'm sure theres a story for each and every combination out there somewhere... Chaos apparently fights Chaos all the time, can Rich take his Chaos Demons and line up right next to Seth's Demon Hunters and assault Lee's Plague Marines who just happened to be backed up by "renegade" Tau rail guns? It all seems so stupid and super lame to me. It's why we decided to theme the Megabattle in the first place.
At what point to we stop this, or reel it in, such that the sides remain unique, different, and fair? It's extremely important to remain and maintain consistency on each choice we make in these situations. I think people fail to see the importance of that.
We want an "Order" vs "Disorder" Megabattle. We have defined what we think that means. We really want to stick to it. Exceptions were made year 1 based on the need to keep the number of players per side even. Much fewer were made last year... off the top I can't really think of anyone that even played a "renegade" list.
Please understand what sort of position this puts us in. Telling one person, "Sure use XYZ, it makes sense and the models clearly reflect what you were trying to do" and the turning around and saying, "No, that's lame. We don't want to see that type of thing" to another person totally sucks, is inconsistent, and sends at LEAST one person away with a bad taste in their mouth. It's a lose / lose situation for Derek and I. The Megabattle is full of these types of choices for us, so please understand that.
What we WANT is for the "Order" side to use rule books from only the "Order" side and for "Disorder" to use rule books from only the "Disorder" side. This seems impossible to attain without someone being less than pleased.
If it were one person who was coming to us with an army that CLEARLY looks, feels, and reflects the intent to be "traitor" or "renegade" or whatever then MAYBE it's a different story. This year, however, that is not the case.
At this point I'd like to see the community debate this a little bit.
Tell me why it's okay, fair, and makes sense based on what Derek and I want to see out of the Megabattle.
Is there a solution that is okay, fair, and makes sense?
Should we care about pleasing everybody and/or being consistent? Can I tell Ian that because his list was planned and intended to be a traitor list since before he bought any of the models that it's cool that he fights for "Disorder"? Can I, at the same time, tell Troy and Rick that they need to fight for "Order"?
The issues run a bit deeper than playing with friends, whether or not the fluff supports it, and what we'd like to see. We are also very concerned with one side having X options and the other side effectively having X+Y options.
Let's hear it.
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And to the point about fluff, is the concept of traitor wolves thematically detrimental to the game to a greater extent than say unpainted armies?
Yes.
Unpainted models have nothing to do with the *theme* of the Megabattle. They just aren't allowed because we want the Megabattle to LOOK cool.
Traitor armies for the sake of being traitor armies is lame. People saying that their army is "traitor" or even justifying it (which appears to be pretty easy in 40k) so that they can play with friend instead of against them is not in the spirit of the event. I understand the desire to do so, but it is not in the spirit of the event.
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Playing a giant "counts as" army can be lame.
On the other hand
Playing a giant "count as" army can be rad.
It's like when people use models which are scratch built and awesome and others do it and it looks like a kid's toy with a bad paint job.
I agree with this, and I was going to use the same analogy.
Although in the case of playing one army on "the other side" I think it's a lot more complicated.
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My opinion on this issue is as follows. If you paid lots of money and pent lots of time on peices to look "chaos" then thats awsome. Do I think they should get every peice of gear from an imperial codex? No. Chaos imperial guard look awsome and fun but like Chaos Space Marines they are in the eye of terror and have not had acess to imperial standard equipment for centuries. Likewise they have not been able to maintain certain equipment due to lack of resorces either. My Opinion? The ONLY way I can see chaos imperial guard is changing the stuff they have access to from Codex Imperial guard and the apocolyps books. That is a logistics night mare and if some one can pull off a fair way of ruling what Lost and Damned (aka Traitor Guard aka Chaos Guard) then have at it. Do I think people who legit spent lots of time and money making such armies be punished? No. But I do see the point Derrek and Chase have made. It is not fair nor is it in the spirit of the fluff for Chaos to have access to everything the imperium does. This is why its 2 different codecies for the marines. The fluff for chaos says they have been away in the Eye of Terror and in the Warp Cut off from Imperial Supply lines. They cant replicate everything nore upkeep what they took with them when they went chaos. The best way to handle Lost and the Damned im my opinion is to use the Eye of Terror Codex and house update the armory to reflect the rules changes in 5th eddition. As for any one else who has clearly imperial armies and wants to call them chaos? Sorry no. There is a clear cut allies page in the apoc rule book which for the most part draws a line between Order and Disorder. If you want your marines to be chaos that badly then buy a chaos marine army. Want chaos imperial guard? Then start doing amazing conversions or get on the horn with forge world and try to help find rules that can accomidate the spirit of the game. I can already tell right now there are people upset over the call Derrek and Chase have made. Well then help make a solution. My idea of using Codex Eye of Terror for traitor guard with some house rules may be one. Of coarse I could be Wrong. I appologise to any one I may have offended when posting this opinion it is just that an opinion about a game please dont take it personaly.
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My opinion on this issue is as follows. If you paid lots of money and pent lots of time on peices to look "chaos" then thats awsome. Do I think they should get every peice of gear from an imperial codex? No. Chaos imperial guard look awsome and fun but like Chaos Space Marines they are in the eye of terror and have not had acess to imperial standard equipment for centuries. Likewise they have not been able to maintain certain equipment due to lack of resorces either. My Opinion? The ONLY way I can see chaos imperial guard is changing the stuff they have access to from Codex Imperial guard and the apocolyps books. That is a logistics night mare and if some one can pull off a fair way of ruling what Lost and Damned (aka Traitor Guard aka Chaos Guard) then have at it. Do I think people who legit spent lots of time and money making such armies be punished? No. But I do see the point Derrek and Chase have made. It is not fair nor is it in the spirit of the fluff for Chaos to have access to everything the imperium does. This is why its 2 different codecies for the marines. The fluff for chaos says they have been away in the Eye of Terror and in the Warp Cut off from Imperial Supply lines. They cant replicate everything nore upkeep what they took with them when they went chaos. The best way to handle Lost and the Damned im my opinion is to use the Eye of Terror Codex and house update the armory to reflect the rules changes in 5th eddition. As for any one else who has clearly imperial armies and wants to call them chaos? Sorry no. There is a clear cut allies page in the apoc rule book which for the most part draws a line between Order and Disorder. If you want your marines to be chaos that badly then buy a chaos marine army. Want chaos imperial guard? Then start doing amazing conversions or get on the horn with forge world and try to help find rules that can accomidate the spirit of the game. I can already tell right now there are people upset over the call Derrek and Chase have made. Well then help make a solution. My idea of using Codex Eye of Terror for traitor guard with some house rules may be one. Of coarse I could be Wrong. I appologise to any one I may have offended when posting this opinion it is just that an opinion about a game please dont take it personaly.
Steve, I hate to rain on your parade, but the concept of the traitor guard is absolutely nothing like the lost and the damned. Traitor Guard are the units/armies that feel as though the Emperor has failed them/fallen to chaos/been tricked into serving the will of the chaos gods. If you would like examples of fallen guard, please read up on your steel legion history and also about the death korp of krieg.
I don't understand why everyone is in a tizzy over "traitor guard". I was going to do traitor guard, but in respect to those folks who are playing it the regular way, I was going to forgo the idea of the unique characters for the megabattle, because in a setting like this, we are looking at it being more unfluffy than before. But moreso than doing it in name, I was working on coverting models to bear the fruits of the lord of desire, as well as including their Conductor Lucius with the force. I think the likelihood of a unit(army/company) falling to chaos is pretty well documented with the advent of the Commissar, Priest, and Inquisitor.
Being that as it may, I cannot attend the event in its current form, so the point for me is moot. People should go into this thinking about having fun themselves, not worrying too much about whether or not player X has an army that you feel as though doesnt playing on X side.
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My opinion on this issue is as follows. If you paid lots of money and pent lots of time on peices to look "chaos" then thats awsome. Do I think they should get every peice of gear from an imperial codex? No. Chaos imperial guard look awsome and fun but like Chaos Space Marines they are in the eye of terror and have not had acess to imperial standard equipment for centuries. Likewise they have not been able to maintain certain equipment due to lack of resorces either. My Opinion? The ONLY way I can see chaos imperial guard is changing the stuff they have access to from Codex Imperial guard and the apocolyps books. That is a logistics night mare and if some one can pull off a fair way of ruling what Lost and Damned (aka Traitor Guard aka Chaos Guard) then have at it. Do I think people who legit spent lots of time and money making such armies be punished? No. But I do see the point Derrek and Chase have made. It is not fair nor is it in the spirit of the fluff for Chaos to have access to everything the imperium does. This is why its 2 different codecies for the marines. The fluff for chaos says they have been away in the Eye of Terror and in the Warp Cut off from Imperial Supply lines. They cant replicate everything nore upkeep what they took with them when they went chaos. The best way to handle Lost and the Damned im my opinion is to use the Eye of Terror Codex and house update the armory to reflect the rules changes in 5th eddition. As for any one else who has clearly imperial armies and wants to call them chaos? Sorry no. There is a clear cut allies page in the apoc rule book which for the most part draws a line between Order and Disorder. If you want your marines to be chaos that badly then buy a chaos marine army. Want chaos imperial guard? Then start doing amazing conversions or get on the horn with forge world and try to help find rules that can accomidate the spirit of the game. I can already tell right now there are people upset over the call Derrek and Chase have made. Well then help make a solution. My idea of using Codex Eye of Terror for traitor guard with some house rules may be one. Of coarse I could be Wrong. I appologise to any one I may have offended when posting this opinion it is just that an opinion about a game please dont take it personaly.
Steve, I hate to rain on your parade, but the concept of the traitor guard is absolutely nothing like the lost and the damned. Traitor Guard are the units/armies that feel as though the Emperor has failed them/fallen to chaos/been tricked into serving the will of the chaos gods. If you would like examples of fallen guard, please read up on your steel legion history and also about the death korp of krieg.
I don't understand why everyone is in a tizzy over "traitor guard". I was going to do traitor guard, but in respect to those folks who are playing it the regular way, I was going to forgo the idea of the unique characters for the megabattle, because in a setting like this, we are looking at it being more unfluffy than before. But moreso than doing it in name, I was working on coverting models to bear the fruits of the lord of desire, as well as including their Conductor Lucius with the force. I think the likelihood of a unit(army/company) falling to chaos is pretty well documented with the advent of the Commissar, Priest, and Inquisitor.
Being that as it may, I cannot attend the event in its current form, so the point for me is moot. People should go into this thinking about having fun themselves, not worrying too much about whether or not player X has an army that you feel as though doesnt playing on X side.
As I said in my post rick it was an idea. I also indicated that if you truely want "traitor guard" then contribute ideas on how the army can work other then lost and the damned. Personaly I dont have any clue. As my "reading up" Im well read in the books. Almost ALL of them have the traitor guard be rouge P.D.F with Just guardsmen and almost nothing else. Derreks point is disorder should not always have an open vault to order's armory. which would mean not having a carbon copy of codex Imperial guard at your dispossal. Yes traitor guard do happen as chase said in his post but not all the time. I dont know about steel legion but last time I checked Death Korp had a long civil war on their home world but oh look they still serve the Emperor in the end. So no sorry Rick I dont see an example there. Also in my example and in the Kreig both the trador P.D.F / Gurad and Kreig still dont have everything normal codex guard have.
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Now I would like to chime in with sage advice......
hmmmm..... I ummm..... well you know when you consider....
awww darn. I've got nothing.
I THINK EVERYTHING SHOULD CONTEST!
It was stated before that during the test battles the gloves were off, and its was not as bad as one would have thought. I do think that it would become somewhat over whelming for a newer player, but that is where the vets come in to help.
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Being that as it may, I cannot attend the event in its current form, so the point for me is moot. People should go into this thinking about having fun themselves, not worrying too much about whether or not player X has an army that you feel as though doesnt playing on X side.
Huh? Why can't you attend and what is the events current form?
Also, this is not a reaction to players complaining at all. It's a reaction we have had to what we've seen in the past, dealt with, and what we are seeing this year.
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First off, Leman Russes can't take Daemonic Possession or Oh boy, you guys would be screwed.
Secondly, here goes-
Traitor Guard is not Lost and the Damned. The Servants of Slaughter, Servants of Decay and Renegade Militia lists from FW are not lost and the damned. It comes pretty close in some ways but at the end of the day, they are neutered thematic lists which lose some things in 5th edition and were based off the old 3rd ed Imperial Guard codex. Yeah, I roll these lists in friendly games. They are outdated, hardly functioning where certain tweaks tend to be applied so they aren't rail roaded.
Since the IA5 lists mentioned above used the 3rd ed imperial guard codex as a guide, one could assume that using the new imperial guard codex to represent renegade guard would be a logical jump.
Renegade Guard are a staple in 40k. Remember, there was only 1 Vraks to produce a Vraksian Apostate Preacher to bring about a Vraksian Rebellion filled with Vraksian Renegade Militiamen which was later annihilated. (Represented in an almost scenario like way in the Servants of Slaughter, Servants of Decay and Renegade Militia lists)
There are hundreds of worlds where guard turn renegade, take their equipment and follow chaos. Since the removal of the Eye of Terror codex and the lists contained, there have been many players, myself included, who have been looking for a way to better represent a band of ordinary men that worship chaos. Millions of men turn from the Imperium and join Chaos or some permutation of it. The great story and theme behind chaos is that it is everywhere, not just in huge bloodthirsters or 10,000 year old Chaos Lords but in men. Lunatics that join chaos because they were left outside the light of the Imperium too long. I could go on but then it would get even nerdier and deeper into my fluff dungeons.
Do I think traitor guard should be allowed? Yes. Should there be limitations? Yes. The limitations should be as follows: Modelling and Special Characters.
Since Apocalypse allows for using multiple codecies, there is no reason to worry about having a close combat monster as your HQ as the Daemon Prince/Chaos Lord / Some jerk with an 8 pointed star on his head has come for his flock. A requirement of some chaos HQ must be taken.
Modelling: It must be chaos. It comes in all flavors and views and that's what is great about chaos. My renegade guard are modeled to be ramshackle followers of chaos with little adornment save for a few hastily inscribed chaos markings and crude paint on starts on the vehicles. Some take it further and more Lost and the Damned like puts spikes on everything. Those would be opposite stylistically but convey the same idea. The army must look like it has fallen to chaos and have it be obvious.
Special Characters: I would remove the ability to remove the ability to take some some of the characters like say Creed. He stopped the rebellion on Cadia where a horde of Imperial Guardsmen went Chaos. Obviously out. I'm not too familiar with the other characters except for Pask (;)) and well you can read through and see if any could be represented in a chaotic way but to keep it simple, you could lean toward just not allowing them for renegade guard.
Renegade Space Wolves...
You have to take Huron and have to use the CSM codex to represent the army. The CSM codex can do much of what the Wolf codex can do and it keeps things from going weird. You could use your models, just not the codex.
This ultimately depends on the ambiguity of the paint job. Huron Blackheart was / is a pirate. He runs around raiding while forcing people to join his cause or killing them. Space Wolves joined him because they did not want to die. Thus breaking their resolve and knowing fear.
Renegade Space Marines...
The new Chaos Space Marines book is just that- Renegade Space Marines. With the removal of the cult rules and ancient enemies and other theme base rules removed, it is implied to be played with a certain type of all inclusive chaos where all 4 cult squad types could be in the same army. So it covers the play styles of lots of people but keeps things on the Chaos rules set. Have lots of drop pods but a pretty ambiguous paint job? Counts as Dreadclaws and play as undivided chaos. Big gold proudly displayed aquilas need not apply.
Oh and remember- As per the Apocalypse rule book, Chaos has access to all Imperial Datasheets. Some can be represented properly as they are single and self contained models like the Titans, fliers, etc. but others can only be made up of Imperial only selections. An example of this would be the Assault Force of the Ancients would be impossible for Chaos to take since it contains a tech priest.
TL;DR
The imperial armor renegade lists are outdated and barely functional as a stand alone list
Space Marine players should don spikes if they want to hang with the spikey marines
Creed does not work for Chaos, yo.
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IMPORTANT NOTE!!!
Due to a scheduling conflict at the venue, the Megabattle date has been moved to Saturday, March 20th.
I LOVE YOU, DEREK!!! ;D
Looks like Captain Sicarius' 2nd Company will be making it afterall! :D
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Be kind on the eyes, ladies, break up that text. Nothing can be more daunting and painful to read besides a wall o' text. /net etiquette
EDIT:
The Eye of Terror Codex will not work as a solution at all. The only way to make it work is by bringing back he 3.5 edition Chaos Codex. That alone is not something people want, trust me.
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Being that as it may, I cannot attend the event in its current form, so the point for me is moot. People should go into this thinking about having fun themselves, not worrying too much about whether or not player X has an army that you feel as though doesnt playing on X side.
Huh? Why can't you attend and what is the events current form?
Also, this is not a reaction to players complaining at all. It's a reaction we have had to what we've seen in the past, dealt with, and what we are seeing this year.
I cannot attend due to my participation in a wedding. Nothing to do with what is to going on, I told you this last monday ;)
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Dave and I are in the opinion of take what you want. We'll just blow it up so it won't be a problem.
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There was a long, long discussion at the store tonight and I feel as though much progress was made in helping us decide an outcome that will be acceptable for everyone. Please continue to discuss this in this thread, though. Your opinions are extremely important to me.
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If a player has gone out of his way to model and paint his army as traitors and it doesnt kick REASONABLE fluff in the fucking balls, I fail to see the problem.
If the force a player wants to play doesn't have an official list (Adeptus Mechanicus, Traitor Guardsmen) and they choose a codex to represent their force and it doesnt kick REASONABLE fluff in the fucking balls, I fail to see the problem.
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New idea, and I'm just throwing it out there.... feel free to send right back.
The day of we have two team captains and then we pick teams, you know old school kick ball rules. Anybody with me? You know like in elementary school. But instead of picking the fat kid last we just have the two captains argue over who gets stuck with the ginger....
Just spit ballin ideas, no pressure. KICK BALL!
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New idea, and I'm just throwing it out there.... feel free to send right back.
The day of we have two team captains and then we pick teams, you know old school kick ball rules. Anybody with me? You know like in elementary school. But instead of picking the fat kid last we just have the two captains argue over who gets stuck with the ginger....
Just spit ballin ideas, no pressure. KICK BALL!
i hate you all lol
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I heard a rumor that we may be using the Eye Of Terror as a scenario for this year, is that true? If so then that changes the side for the Necrons (that a few others and I play) from chaos to order.
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I heard a rumor that we may be using the Eye Of Terror as a scenario for this year, is that true? If so then that changes the side for the Necrons (that a few others and I play) from chaos to order.
Not true. Something like trying to reproduce the Eye of Terror scenario was mentioned briefly when we were trying to figure out what to do for the event.... Mainly just trying to decide if we wanted 1 giant, 40 person table, or more than 1 table.
What has been decided is that we are going to have 3 different tables.
A moon table - 5v5 - made up of three 4x6 tables.
A planet surface table - 10v10 - made of up six 4x6 tables.
An underground cavern table - 5v5 - made up of three 4x6 tables.
Each table will interact to some extent with another table(s) and objective points scored on each table will be combined to determine your teams overall score.
You will not be allowed to deploy or transfer models to a table different than the one your team decides you will be playing on.
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Sign ups for the Megabattle have started! Please contact the store ASAP to sign up if and only if you can commit to playing on March 20th. We are taking 40 players on a first come, first serve basis.
The fee for the event will be $40.00 and covers the space for the event, lunch, t-shirt, and materials.
The event will be held on March 20th, 2010 at the Holiday Inn in Rockland MA.
When you sign up you will need to provide your name, the army you plan to play, the number of points you can field (4000 max), and the email address you would like to recieve emails about the event.
If you have any questions about signing up for the event, please post them here.
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After much deliberation and talking with some people I came to a new opinion. I think disorder should have access to full imperial guard lists with these conditions:
1. The army must look the part. Its not fair for those players who spent lots of time and money to make conversions to be told "no"
2. A phrase I recently learned needs to apply. Wheaton's law, dont be a dick.
With those 2 conditions met I do not see or for see a problem with traitor guard.
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Sign me up!
Ian Mulligan - Chaos Space Marines and Traitor Guard (With whatever codex you whiners want me to use ;)). 4,000 pts should not be a problem.
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sign me up was well with Ultramrines 4th Company
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My death guard will be there by hook or by crook. I can field 4000 points easily if I'm using the big man
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.... I do not see or for see a problem with traitor guard.
Nice, I am not sure what swayed you, but my thought is this. There are traitor Guard in the universe. And, while they are different to Regular guard in more than just looks, (you can't just flip to Chaos and remain the same), there are those (crazed) individuals that have spent all that time and effort modelling traitor guard. For that reason alone it does not seem fair to penalize them for the fact that GW has not gotten around to updating either the FW rules set, or providing some LOTD style updates.
If the "traitor guard" look the part then I say have at it.
Cheers,
Alan
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Chase and Derek, I offer my terrain making services if you need it.
John
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Let the Black Crusade begin!
Rich Bourque- Chaos Space Marines / Chaos Daemons
4000, easy.
EDIT:
John, thanks in advance for all the great terrain you will be making and thanks again for the other stuff you made which we get to enjoy currently at BG!
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Please don't forget to give me your email address. Emailing or PMing it to me is fine.
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Nice so when do we get the Order/Disorder forums going??
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When the sign-ups close and the teams are finalized. It sort of depends on how fast the event fills up. Currently, there are 15 people signed up... 9 "Order" players and 6 "Disorder" players.
Kev, you are not on the sign up list yet.
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So do we have an answer about the traitor guard? Most seem to agree that as long as they look the part they will be cool using the guard Codex. Aso for "traitor marines" I say you use the Chaos Codex and model traitor marines. In my opinion using marines covered in chapter symbols and Aquilas are not traitors. Remember Wheatons law when choosing how to represent your force.
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My 4000 points of Traitor Guard will be able to make it, so sign me up for disorder buddy!
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Ben Hong will be there with the Ultramarines 2nd Company. Boo Ya!
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The Kabal of the Black Heart has been promised to make our slave barges overflowing for our services. Raiders have been sent to make this happen.
I'm in with 4000pts of my Dark Elder.
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Ben and Steve, please send me the email address you plan to use to receive info about the event.
chaselaq@gmail.com or just PM me here.
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Ben Hong will be there with the Ultramarines 2nd Company. Boo Ya!
4000 points?
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So do we have an answer about the traitor guard? Most seem to agree that as long as they look the part they will be cool using the guard Codex. Aso for "traitor marines" I say you use the Chaos Codex and model traitor marines. In my opinion using marines covered in chapter symbols and Aquilas are not traitors. Remember Wheatons law when choosing how to represent your force.
I guess there's really no sense in waiting any longer before giving our answer, seeing as we know what it's going to be at this point anyways.
We are going to handle the situation like this (this year and going forward), unless we make a very rare exception that will involve us approaching you.
The side of Disorder will be allowed to use the Imperial Guard Codex to represent "Traitor Guard" so long as the army presented does not make use of any IG special characters (there may be exceptions to this rooted in fluff) and shows clear and solid effort put into LOOKING and PLAYING the part.
(What this means is: Don't half ass it. Seriously. Do a good job. I don't mean to come across as a dick... but... No KFC bucket, hamster ball, and toilet paper roll Defense Laser type of stuff. If you're going to commit to a Traitor Guard army, commit to it.)
We feel this conclusion is fair, keeps the most people happy, will not result in crazy imbalance, and reflects / respects the fluff behind the game very well.
The side of Disorder will not be allowed to make use of the Space Wolves Codex OR the Space Marine Codex. A player fielding Space Wolf models or Space Marine models MAY play for the side of Disorder if and only if their list is governed by the Chaos Space Marine Codex *only* AND their models can easily pass for Chaos themed Space Marines. If you choose to do this, please put effort into doing so and please build your lists to reflect your choice.
There has been quite a bit of debate at the store, many opinions, examples, and reasons have been given for and against all sorts of options. These decisions most accurately represent what Battleground wants to see at the Megabattle in several respects.
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No KFC bucket, hamster ball, and toilet paper roll Defense Laser type of stuff.
lol
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No KFC bucket, hamster ball, and toilet paper roll Defense Laser type of stuff.
Sounds like something Macgyver made once long ago!! :D
lol
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No KFC bucket, hamster ball, and toilet paper roll Defense Laser type of stuff.
lol
I would have called you out for being a dick, but that prize is awarded to Mr Fairytail himself, Rich "I make too much money and became a huge fancy car driving douchebag" Bourque....
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No KFC bucket, hamster ball, and toilet paper roll Defense Laser type of stuff.
i just needed to post it again, so it can sink in, that no matter how ingenious you thought you were, you in fact were not, at all, ever, never, not even remotely, not ever a little, there wasn't ever a miniscule hint of anything that even resembled any sort of ingenuity
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No KFC bucket, hamster ball, and toilet paper roll Defense Laser type of stuff.
i just needed to post it again, so it can sink in, that no matter how ingenious you thought you were, you in fact were not, at all, ever, never, not even remotely, not ever a little, there wasn't ever a miniscule hint of anything that even resembled any sort of ingenuity
diaf
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Oh yeah... that reminds me: Could whoever owns the KFC bucket, hamster ball and toilet paper roll contraption please remove it from the 1' x 1' square of shelf space it's been taking up for the last year in the back room.
Thank you,
~ Management
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the message boards need a "like" button just because of Derek's post.
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Now if only the KFC bucket, hamster ball and toilet paper roll contraption, had flashing lights and speakers so it could yell profanity in japanese spoken by a japanese schoolgirl, then I think it could be acceptable.
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If I had too much money, I would just pay people to post snarky quotes for me. ;)
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So be it.
The Black Wolves of Fenris march for the Emporer...
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No KFC bucket, hamster ball, and toilet paper roll Defense Laser type of stuff.
But everyone knows how deadly KFC's chicken really is. haha ;D
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So be it.
The Black Wolves of Fenris march for the Emporer...
4000 points, Troy?
Email?
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I can field more if you need it.
But Yes 4000 points it is.
Email - sent to you
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If I had too much money, I would just pay people to post snarky quotes for me. ;)
so I'm confused, what is this "too much money"?
I'm not entirely sure that such a thing exists....
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So who is playing on what side so far? Can we get a list cuz I wanna see who I possibly get to kill in the name of the lord of decay!
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I'm going to keep the list of players and what side they are playing for private for now.
Currently there are 16 Order Players (4 spots left!!) and 8 Disorder Players.
It's filling up quickly.
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16 to 8 = main reason why I wanted to go Disorder
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It'll fill up, trust me. Chris and dan also may be playing for the cool kids as well chase with nids and demons
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Ginger, Give it thought. Who usually is on Good side? Alan, Steeeeeve D, Seth, Sims, Me. Theres 5 without any thought. Though Wolves do get alot of "we totally fuck T5+ stuff now"
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When I have too much money, I'll let you know.
Who is bothering with weak t5 guys?
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I am signed up and payed.
Its now 19 vs 9, we got the points.
AND I REQUESTED THE WEEKEND OF THE 20th off, let the games begin..
Point me at something and I shall make sweet BS2 snu snu to its face!!!
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One suggestion, I was taking with Chase about this. I think it would be a good idea to have a go to guy at each table. Not someone in charge of anything, just a nominated person that Derek and Chase can talk to for there team about any turn delaying or game altering subjects. That person can then let his side of the table know the deal.
Example, instead of them trying to yell over the crowd just to let the moon table know to stop after their current turn to fire obligatory laser of doom at the main table. They can just grab the nominated fellow and he can talk to his side of the table and tell them to hold up.
If you do not think this is a good idea, well then your nuts. Because I am a smart Joo Joo, and any not praising comments can just go right into your little hello kitty diaries. You can just put them in between your unicorn poems and pictures of Justin Timberlake.
;p
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I agree Kevin.
That'll make communication during the game a lot easier. It should probably someone who's very attentive to all the details of the table, and can accurately describe the events unbiasly.
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It would never work sadly...
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Maybe not in Ginger land where we spend all our game time ruining our own objectives....
BAM! take that!
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Maybe not in Ginger land where we spend all our game time ruining our own objectives....
BAM! take that!
Now, that is simply not true. He didn't spend a lot of time ruining objectives.
It was quick! It was easy!
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I am signed up and payed.
Its now 19 vs 9, we got the points.
AND I REQUESTED THE WEEKEND OF THE 20th off, let the games begin..
Point me at something and I shall make sweet BS2 snu snu to its face!!!
The date isn't the 20th any more. Talk to Chase.
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I am signed up and payed.
Its now 19 vs 9, we got the points.
AND I REQUESTED THE WEEKEND OF THE 20th off, let the games begin..
Point me at something and I shall make sweet BS2 snu snu to its face!!!
The date isn't the 20th any more. Talk to Chase.
Can we get a concrete day so I can put in for it
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I concur. Stop Playing With My Emotions!! :o
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Wait... The date changed?!?
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The date of the Megabattle is Saturday, March 20th.
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So I'm goood??
Cuz if not I should stop my happy dance in front of my computer. This would equal a sad face situation.
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I'd like to submit this as a possible Datasheet for the Mega battle;
Necron AA Obelisk 80 Points
Unit: 1 AA Obelisk
Type: Tank
Armor: F(11), S(11), R(11)
BS:4
Weapons: 4 Turret Mounted Gauss AA Cannons
Special: Counts as Immobilized, may arrive as per Deep Strike rules
Gauss AA Cannon: Range (72), Str (6), AP (4), Heavy (2), AA Mount, Gauss
My model for it was the Hydra, basically subtracted something, then added something to keep the point cost similar, for example; I immobilized it, but gave it deep strike. I also tried to keep it with the Necron feel; armor 11 all around because everything in the Necron codex has the same armor on all sides. I also changed the guns to 4 heavy 2 cannons instead of 2 twinlinked guns because so far nothing in the Necron Codex is twinllinked. So instead of 4 attack dice that you can re-roll misses, I just have 8 dice. I then took away a str point and added Gauss (because all necron guns have it).
I then added 5 points to the cost just to be sure.
What do you think?
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So I'm goood??
Cuz if not I should stop my happy dance in front of my computer. This would equal a sad face situation.
Ditto!
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So I'm goood??
Cuz if not I should stop my happy dance in front of my computer. This would equal a sad face situation.
FYI, at BS4, having 8 shots is way better than 4 twin-linked shots.
4 twin linked shots at BS4 = 3-4 hits on avg.
8 shots at BS4 = 5-6 hits on avg.
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It's a work in progress, this also came up on the 40K livejournal community, I'm still re working it. Someone on the LJ site suggested adding a smaller version of the phase shift generator 6" instead of 12". With a point cost of 150. I'll post a newer datasheet soon.
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yea, but everything in the necron army is also BS 4. I being imobilied also makes it alot easier to kill. Having only two guns at armor value 11. This thing can fairly easily die to str 6 fire, all imobilized will bump up to weapon gone and it only has 2 weapons.
I think its a fair attempt, I don't see any issues, but I'm on your team....
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I'd like to submit this as a possible Datasheet for the Mega battle;
Necron AA Obelisk 80 Points
Unit: 1 AA Obelisk
Type: Tank
Armor: F(11), S(11), R(11)
BS:4
Weapons: 4 Turret Mounted Gauss AA Cannons
Special: Counts as Immobilized, may arrive as per Deep Strike rules
Gauss AA Cannon: Range (72), Str (6), AP (4), Heavy (2), AA Mount, Gauss
My model for it was the Hydra, basically subtracted something, then added something to keep the point cost similar, for example; I immobilized it, but gave it deep strike. I also tried to keep it with the Necron feel; armor 11 all around because everything in the Necron codex has the same armor on all sides. I also changed the guns to 4 heavy 2 cannons instead of 2 twinlinked guns because so far nothing in the Necron Codex is twinllinked. So instead of 4 attack dice that you can re-roll misses, I just have 8 dice. I then took away a str point and added Gauss (because all necron guns have it).
I then added 5 points to the cost just to be sure.
What do you think?
The Hydra costs 200 points. (Page 107 of Apocalypse base rules.) 80 points for something similar seems like quite a discount.
A Hydra fires four shots twin linked at BS 3. On average, 3 hits are going to score. Eight shots at BS 4 averages 5.3 hits, which is a significant improvement. You might want to tone it down some. Maybe 4 shots but with greater strength???
In principle, I'm cool with it, but I think you should look at your numbers a bit more.
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I thought it was 75 in the new IG codex?
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The Hydra costs 200 points. (Page 107 of Apocalypse base rules.) 80 points for something similar seems like quite a discount.
This has been changed with the new guard codex. Forgeworld updated their rules, reducing its cost to 75 points.
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The Hydra costs 200 points. (Page 107 of Apocalypse base rules.) 80 points for something similar seems like quite a discount.
This has been changed with the new guard codex. Forgeworld updated their rules, reducing its cost to 75 points.
I thought that the Hydra and Valkyrie rules in the new IG codex were for non-Apocalypse games. The models were just too cool to be restricted to Apokalypse only, so they created discount cost non-flyer rules for the models.
The IG Codex Valkyrie is a skimmer, not a flyer, as there are no flyers in straight 40K. Similarly, the IG codex Hydra is not long barreled and does not have an anti aircraft mount capability. (It has benefits against skimmers and bikes, but there is no mention of flyers.) When playing Apocalypse, one can play either version of either vehicle, but I thought one had to pay the extra cost for the extra capability if you want the Apocalypse versions of the vehicles capable of using the flyer rules.
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The Hydra costs 200 points. (Page 107 of Apocalypse base rules.) 80 points for something similar seems like quite a discount.
This has been changed with the new guard codex. Forgeworld updated their rules, reducing its cost to 75 points.
I thought that the Hydra and Valkyrie rules in the new IG codex were for non-Apocalypse games. The models were just too cool to be restricted to Apokalypse only, so they created discount cost non-flyer rules for the models.
The IG Codex Valkyrie is a skimmer, not a flyer, as there are no flyers in straight 40K. Similarly, the IG codex Hydra is not long barreled and does not have an anti aircraft mount capability. (It has benefits against skimmers and bikes, but there is no mention of flyers.) When playing Apocalypse, one can play either version of either vehicle, but I thought one had to pay the extra cost for the extra capability if you want the Apocalypse versions of the vehicles capable of using the flyer rules.
In apoc games there was a white dwarf errara, the Valk automaticly gains the flyer special rule in addition to its old ones. There is no mention of Hydras having AA on their guns how ever.
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the WD variant has its own special rules. But I think this is an issue to actually have discussed....
What is the offical ruling on Apocalypse vs. Non-apocalypse versions of things? I don't see an issue with allowing both but the concern comes when someone wants to field the flying and the skimmer verison in one force. I just personally don't want to have to keep checking if what I am attacking is actaully something different.
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Necron AA Obelisk 150 Points
Unit: 1-3 AA Obelisk
Type: Immobile Vehicle
Armor: F(12), S(12, R(12), Living Metal
BS:4
Weapons: 4 Turret Mounted long-barreled Gauss AA Cannons
Long-barreled, AA Gauss Cannon: Range (12"-64"), Str (6), AP (4), Heavy (1), AA Mount, Gauss
Special Rules:
Phase Shift Generator - All units with the Necron special rule with at least one model within 6" receive an 5+ invulnerable save.
Deep strike as Monolith.
Now it's only 4 shots at BS4 with no re-rolls for misses.
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As for the Hydra, the 75 point vs the 200 point seems to be just the AA capability, seems a lot for 125 points.
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at 150 points, I think it'd be fair if that gun was str 7, especially if you only have 4 shots.
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Ron - You are over thinking things. 100 points you should be looking at something like you have, Heavy 4 at BS4, reduced range to 60 inches (so you would be looking at 48" vs flyers) and you have the perfect balance. As for your AV, 11/11/10 with living metal should be perfectly fine, it is well balance for an apoc game
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Ron - You are over thinking things. 100 points you should be looking at something like you have, Heavy 4 at BS4, reduced range to 60 inches (so you would be looking at 48" vs flyers) and you have the perfect balance. As for your AV, 11/11/10 with living metal should be perfectly fine, it is well balance for an apoc game
Necrons were built to endure. I'm pretty sure AV 12 is fine for 150 points. maybe even armor 13 (a space marine predator w/ the autocannon turret is only 85 points)
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Isnt there already rules for the Obelisk in Bell of Lost Souls?
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I think the Obelisk in the Bell of Souls is more of a Power Matrix Cannon, as opposed to an AA gun.
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the WD variant has its own special rules. But I think this is an issue to actually have discussed....
What is the offical ruling on Apocalypse vs. Non-apocalypse versions of things? I don't see an issue with allowing both but the concern comes when someone wants to field the flying and the skimmer verison in one force. I just personally don't want to have to keep checking if what I am attacking is actaully something different.
Just a note on this. WD353 2009, states that when using Valks and Vendettas from Codex IG it is appropriate for them to be flyers.
That seems, at least in this case, it'll be just like last year pre-codex IG. you have to declare what mode the craft is in at the beginning of each movement.
Are there any other vehicles like this we need to take into consideration?
Cheers,
Alan
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Yo what up B, Yeah I am definately bringing my ass down there for the megabattle.
-Dan Chase
PS... Bringing Chaos Daemons 3.5kpts Maaaybe more
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As for the Hydra, the 75 point vs the 200 point seems to be just the AA capability, seems a lot for 125 points.
Perhaps. I'm paying 258 points for my flyers though. I think that is somewhat expensive too, for 10 10 10 hulls with 2 bright lance and 2 S-cannon. Arguably, GW has the point cost in the flyer game high. Still, I don't know that we should start discounting anti air while keeping the price of the flyers high.
I'd appreciate it if you stay close to the Hydra data sheet. It is reasonable that you want to add living metal, gauss and BS4, but if you do so your price should be above 200 and your average number of hits comparable to the Hydra.
If you are putting down one such pylon, no big deal. If you are thinking of building a whole bunch of them, that would be something else.
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The Hydra costs 200 points. (Page 107 of Apocalypse base rules.) 80 points for something similar seems like quite a discount.
This has been changed with the new guard codex. Forgeworld updated their rules, reducing its cost to 75 points.
I thought that the Hydra and Valkyrie rules in the new IG codex were for non-Apocalypse games. The models were just too cool to be restricted to Apokalypse only, so they created discount cost non-flyer rules for the models.
The IG Codex Valkyrie is a skimmer, not a flyer, as there are no flyers in straight 40K. Similarly, the IG codex Hydra is not long barreled and does not have an anti aircraft mount capability. (It has benefits against skimmers and bikes, but there is no mention of flyers.) When playing Apocalypse, one can play either version of either vehicle, but I thought one had to pay the extra cost for the extra capability if you want the Apocalypse versions of the vehicles capable of using the flyer rules.
Once the new guard codex came out, FW adjusted the point costs for all IG vehicles they have. In the IA with the Servants of Decay army list, there is a brand new index of IG vehicles for play, including Hydras with AA mounts for 75 points and Vendettas with the Flyer rule for 130 points.
I'm sure once Rich Borque or Mike Do has time, they can post the full title of the new book along with page numbers to settle this.
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Chase and crew.
There is correction in my force for the Mega Battle.
I will be playing 4k points of Thousand Son Marines for the Mega battle!
Praise be to the chaos gods!
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As for the Hydra, the 75 point vs the 200 point seems to be just the AA capability, seems a lot for 125 points.
Perhaps. I'm paying 258 points for my flyers though. I think that is somewhat expensive too, for 10 10 10 hulls with 2 bright lance and 2 S-cannon. Arguably, GW has the point cost in the flyer game high. Still, I don't know that we should start discounting anti air while keeping the price of the flyers high.
I'd appreciate it if you stay close to the Hydra data sheet. It is reasonable that you want to add living metal, gauss and BS4, but if you do so your price should be above 200 and your average number of hits comparable to the Hydra.
If you are putting down one such pylon, no big deal. If you are thinking of building a whole bunch of them, that would be something else.
Sorry Bob, but guard players are within their right to take whichever variant they want as long as they let folks know about it before hand...
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I guess this is my intro and de-lurk post -
I'm Jared, and an Ardboyz from Cambridge. I got wind of this via another 40k forum, and on behalf of us up north, I'd be honored to sign up for the forces of Disorder with some more Chaos.
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the WD variant has its own special rules. But I think this is an issue to actually have discussed....
What is the offical ruling on Apocalypse vs. Non-apocalypse versions of things? I don't see an issue with allowing both but the concern comes when someone wants to field the flying and the skimmer verison in one force. I just personally don't want to have to keep checking if what I am attacking is actaully something different.
Just a note on this. WD353 2009, states that when using Valks and Vendettas from Codex IG it is appropriate for them to be flyers.
That seems, at least in this case, it'll be just like last year pre-codex IG. you have to declare what mode the craft is in at the beginning of each movement.
Are there any other vehicles like this we need to take into consideration?
Cheers,
Alan
Yep this was what I was refering to in my earlier post. There is also a data sheet for a special Valk that is brimming with snipper riffles and also a Data sheet which has multiple valks and vendettas, what it does I dont know. As for Hydras Any one fielding them is within their right to say which varient it is going to be.
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I guess this is my intro and de-lurk post -
I'm Jared, and an Ardboyz from Cambridge. I got wind of this via another 40k forum, and on behalf of us up north, I'd be honored to sign up for the forces of Disorder with some more Chaos.
Welcome!
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Chase and crew.
There is correction in my force for the Mega Battle.
I will be playing 4k points of Thousand Son Marines for the Mega battle!
Praise be to the chaos gods!
Cool. I'll change this when I get to the store.
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Whats currently the count of Order Players and Disorder Players?
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I'll let you know in a little while, Steve. I haven't been at the store since Monday night, so I haven't updated anything since then. Maybe I'll see you in a little while.
Anyways, business:
One thing on the "to do" list includes (but isn't limited to) the following...
Figuring out exactly how we want each table to contribute to the overall score. Basically, how we want objectives to be scored on each table, and how they score on each table with influence the game overall.
Our ideas change every day.
Currently the idea is to score objectives at the top of each player turn, starting round 2. The score will continue to accumulate each round after that until the game is over or time is called on the event. At the end of the event, the total number of points scored by each team will be divided by the number of rounds that table finished. The three scored from each table will the be added together to give us our winner.
The moon table and the cavern table (the 5v5 tables) will be worth exactly half of the objective points that the planet surface table (10v10) has.
For instance: Moon Table = 5 objective points / round. Planet Surface = 10 objective points / round. Cavern = 5 objective points / round.
If one team completely removes the other from any table, they will score the maximum possible points for that table.
Please break this. Explain why its a bad, unfair, or broken method of scoring. This is very, very important.
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with the cavern table, im assuming that there won't be drop pods and stuff like that allowed there, if a player on that table had one, where would it get dropped?
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with the cavern table, im assuming that there won't be drop pods and stuff like that allowed there, if a player on that table had one, where would it get dropped?
Maybe they shoot holes through the ground before the drop pods land :)
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with the cavern table, im assuming that there won't be drop pods and stuff like that allowed there, if a player on that table had one, where would it get dropped?
I would assume that drop pod armies would try to get themselves assigned anywhere but the cavern table. As I understand what's being proposed, players are going to be at one of the three sets of tables, and are not going to be allowed to move between table sets. Depending on how exotic the rules get, players may really want to avoid one table set or another. We'll have to see what the table rules look like.
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Once again I'm going to reiterate that the objectives be something that doesn't block line of sight to give a clear advantage to one side like last year... and mabye multiple objectives on each table instead of one. Other than that it seems very down to earth and very fair
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I'm most interested in the math behind the scoring and how a player(s) / team would exploit the scoring method.
If it will not work or has glaring problems I would like to hear about it. Please rip it apart.
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As for the Hydra, the 75 point vs the 200 point seems to be just the AA capability, seems a lot for 125 points.
Perhaps. I'm paying 258 points for my flyers though. I think that is somewhat expensive too, for 10 10 10 hulls with 2 bright lance and 2 S-cannon. Arguably, GW has the point cost in the flyer game high. Still, I don't know that we should start discounting anti air while keeping the price of the flyers high.
I'd appreciate it if you stay close to the Hydra data sheet. It is reasonable that you want to add living metal, gauss and BS4, but if you do so your price should be above 200 and your average number of hits comparable to the Hydra.
If you are putting down one such pylon, no big deal. If you are thinking of building a whole bunch of them, that would be something else.
It would be best for all of us to have the rules for our respective models and follow them as well. ;)
As per GW rules, you use the latest rules set available. I cannot pick and choose to use the old chaos codex, can I?
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The Hydra costs 200 points. (Page 107 of Apocalypse base rules.) 80 points for something similar seems like quite a discount.
This has been changed with the new guard codex. Forgeworld updated their rules, reducing its cost to 75 points.
I thought that the Hydra and Valkyrie rules in the new IG codex were for non-Apocalypse games. The models were just too cool to be restricted to Apokalypse only, so they created discount cost non-flyer rules for the models.
The IG Codex Valkyrie is a skimmer, not a flyer, as there are no flyers in straight 40K. Similarly, the IG codex Hydra is not long barreled and does not have an anti aircraft mount capability. (It has benefits against skimmers and bikes, but there is no mention of flyers.) When playing Apocalypse, one can play either version of either vehicle, but I thought one had to pay the extra cost for the extra capability if you want the Apocalypse versions of the vehicles capable of using the flyer rules.
Once the new guard codex came out, FW adjusted the point costs for all IG vehicles they have. In the IA with the Servants of Decay army list, there is a brand new index of IG vehicles for play, including Hydras with AA mounts for 75 points and Vendettas with the Flyer rule for 130 points.
I'm sure once Rich Borque or Mike Do has time, they can post the full title of the new book along with page numbers to settle this.
Ian Muligan is right.
Yeah, go look at FW's site, downloads section and the IA1 FAQ / Update.
Also, it's in White Dwarf explaining it too, one I did not pick up but have read through, feel free to look around.
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As for the Hydra, the 75 point vs the 200 point seems to be just the AA capability, seems a lot for 125 points.
Perhaps. I'm paying 258 points for my flyers though. I think that is somewhat expensive too, for 10 10 10 hulls with 2 bright lance and 2 S-cannon. Arguably, GW has the point cost in the flyer game high. Still, I don't know that we should start discounting anti air while keeping the price of the flyers high.
I'd appreciate it if you stay close to the Hydra data sheet. It is reasonable that you want to add living metal, gauss and BS4, but if you do so your price should be above 200 and your average number of hits comparable to the Hydra.
If you are putting down one such pylon, no big deal. If you are thinking of building a whole bunch of them, that would be something else.
Sorry Bob, but guard players are within their right to take whichever variant they want as long as they let folks know about it before hand...
No, they must use the latest rules. The latest rules update is that they have AA mounts and valks can use flier rules as well as hover modes.
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Chase and crew.
There is correction in my force for the Mega Battle.
I will be playing 4k points of Thousand Son Marines for the Mega battle!
Praise be to the chaos gods!
F@** YEAH!
-
Yo what up B, Yeah I am definately bringing my ass down there for the megabattle.
-Dan Chase
PS... Bringing Chaos Daemons 3.5kpts Maaaybe more
I need an email address.
And have Chris get in touch with us if he is planning to play also.
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If you are going to sign up via this message board, it is imperative that you email me or PM me your email address.
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There are currently 20 Order players signed up and 13 Disorder players (although I know of at least 4 more who plan to play but have not registered yet) signed up.
Tim Malley
Chris Desiata
Daivd Mace
Brandon Mace
If you guys are playing, sign up quickly.
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"Ian Muligan is right.
Yeah, go look at FW's site, downloads section and the IA1 FAQ / Update.
Also, it's in White Dwarf explaining it too, one I did not pick up but have read through, feel free to look around."
In that case I'll just stick to the 150 point version that I posted for the AA Obelisk.
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Sounds great -- although I still feel that str 7 on those guns would be more than fair.
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I'm most interested in the math behind the scoring and how a player(s) / team would exploit the scoring method.
If it will not work or has glaring problems I would like to hear about it. Please rip it apart.
Chase,
Could you answer two questions for me.
1. What is the reasoning behind the top of each player turn? (I read this to be the start of side ones turn and then again at the start of Side twos turn) So two scoring sets per turn and nothing for the last.
2. If we have the tables set up in this thematic way, then turns will flow differently (faster/slower) on the tables. How is that going to affect the overall game I'm going to assume that one table could be on turn 5, 4 and 3 respectively by days end..
Thanks,
Alan
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I'm most interested in the math behind the scoring and how a player(s) / team would exploit the scoring method.
If it will not work or has glaring problems I would like to hear about it. Please rip it apart.
Chase,
Could you answer two questions for me.
1. What is the reasoning behind the top of each player turn? (I read this to be the start of side ones turn and then again at the start of Side twos turn) So two scoring sets per turn and nothing for the last.
2. If we have the tables set up in this thematic way, then turns will flow differently (faster/slower) on the tables. How is that going to affect the overall game I'm going to assume that one table could be on turn 5, 4 and 3 respectively by days end..
Thanks,
Alan
1. thats what he means by each player turn, each turn a player has. there will be 2 scoring turns per round.
2. if everybody takes their turns at the same time, the turns wont be out of whack. of course the 2 smaller tables will be done first, but theyll have to wait for the big table.
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Sorry Bob, but guard players are within their right to take whichever variant they want as long as they let folks know about it before hand...
Is something up Rick, you seem a little off.......
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The scoring is not for both teams everything player turn. The Order side will gain points on thier turn based on the objectives they control at the begining of their turn, and the Disorder will follow suit. I guess the idea is that it helps avoid the land grab, because both teams could realistically control the same objective and gain points for it in a single overall turn due to the fighting over it. I think it would help avoid the whole flying something over an objective to grab it for points at the bottom of the turn.
As far as each table going at their own pace, all the tables will be stopped at a set time to allow for the inter-table interaction. Whatever those may be, not sure what they have planned other than maybe a space laser from the moon to the surface. But, I know that the smaller tables will be worth less overall points to each side. So, the bigger board will go slower but be worth more in the end. I'm not sure if this will be accomplish by:
1) the smaller tables will have less objectives to score with, or each objective will just be worth less points on these tables.
2) the tables will be worth X amount of points in the end. The winning team will be decided by the amount of objective points they score during that tables play. So, if the moon was won by Order, say 15 points to Disorder's 10 point, that table would award the Order team 5 Victory points.
I have no idea how scoring is going to happen as it stands though. I just wanna smash stuff....
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In the actual apocalypse rules the scoreing happens at the end of the game. It seems needlessly complicated to score each round. I know its cool to see a running score, but however you do it the team that has the turn just before scoring has an advantage (especially at the end of the game), and if you score after each teams turn on three different tables, at possibly three different time scales....youd need a couple of judges who do nothing all day except try to figure out scores.
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Sorry Bob, but guard players are within their right to take whichever variant they want as long as they let folks know about it before hand...
I something up Rick, you seem a little off.......
Aunt Flow is in town.
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In the actual apocalypse rules the scoreing happens at the end of the game. It seems needlessly complicated to score each round. I know its cool to see a running score, but however you do it the team that has the turn just before scoring has an advantage (especially at the end of the game), and if you score after each teams turn on three different tables, at possibly three different time scales....youd need a couple of judges who do nothing all day except try to figure out scores.
The thing about that way of scoring is that we dont' really know how many rounds each team is going to get (we'd just end at 8-9 pm or something).
Because of that, the team that goes 2nd has a huge advantage because then they can just deep strike/turbo boost and grab objectives at the end of the game while the team that went first really had no way of planning for that.
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Sorry Bob, but guard players are within their right to take whichever variant they want as long as they let folks know about it before hand...
I something up Rick, you seem a little off.......
Aunt Flow is in town.
I prefer the Khorney River
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I agree, I know the running score gets complicated. Sadly, without it there is no way to avoid the whole last turn pile up on objectives that most armies can pull off.
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I guess I've been incredibly unclear. I suppose it's a result of having the same conversation with different people a couple of times. I just assume everyone knows what I'm talking about.
The game will consist of 3 tables. This much we should all know at this point.
The tables will be set up like this:
Moon Surface: 5v5
Planet Surface: 10v10
Underground / Cavern: 5v5
Each team will select the players that are to play on each table. These tables will play at their own pace and essentially be their own games with the following exceptions:
Each table will have some sort of affect on itself or another table at various points throughout the event. We have not decided exactly what these affects are.
Each team will score objective points and contribute to an overall team score. If you win your table, great, but your team may still lose the game.
Players that are chosen to play on a given table may ONLY place models on and affect that table. If you're on the moon, everything you and your models do will happen on the moon.
The scoring method I'm toying with will have teams score objective points on at the top of each of their turns, starting with round 2.
Example:
Round 1 - Order - Move, shoot, assualt.
Round 1 - Disorder - Move, shoot, assualt.
Round 2 - Order - Score, move, shoot assault.
Round 2 - Disorder - Score, move, shoot, assualt.
etc. etc.
We are going to make sure that the smaller tables (5v5) have exactly half the number of objective points as the larger table (10v10). The current idea as far as overall scoring goes is this:
Sum all the points accumulated by each side on a given table and divide that number by the number of rounds that table has played. This number will then be added to the number from the other two tables and the team with the higher score will be our winner. If a team wipes out all enemy models on a table, they will score the maximum possible points for that table.
Example:
The Moon table has 5 possible objective points that can be scored each round.
Moon Table- Order scores 15 objective points over 5 rounds. (15/5) = 3. They will contribute 3 objective points to their teams score.
Moon Table - Disorder scores 10 objective points over 5 rounds. (10/5) = 2. They will contribute 2 objective points to their teams score.
Please note that this table ultimately ends up being worth exactly as many points at the end of the event as are possible to score each round.
The Planet Surface table has 10 possible objective points that can be scored each round.
Planet Surface Table- Order scores 44 objective points over 7 rounds. (44/7) = 6.29. They will contribute 6.29 objective points to their teams score.
Planet Surface Table- Disorder scores 26 objective points over 7 rounds. (26/7) = 3.71. They will contribute 3.71 objective points to their teams score.
Please note that this table ultimately ends up being worth exactly as many points at the end of the event as are possible to score each round.
The Underground / Cavern table has 5 possible objective points that can be scored each round.
Underground / Cavern Table- Order loses all of it's models 6 hours into the event, after 3 rounds. The fact that they scored all 5 object points their first scoring turn (top of Round 2) is irrelevant.
Underground / Cavern Table- Disorder kills every model on the opposing side 6 hours into the event, after 3 rounds. They earn the maximum possible points for their team. In this case, it's 5.
Please note that this table ultimately ends up being worth exactly as many points at the end of the event as are possible to score each round.
Order: (Moon + Planet Surface + Underground / Cavern) = (3 + 6.29 + 0) = 9.29 points total
Disorder: (Moon + Planet Surface + Underground / Cavern) = (2 + 3.71 + 5) = 10.71 points total
Disorder is vitorius. GG.
The only issue I can see with this is that which ever team gets second turn ends up "losing" their entire last turn due to the scoring taking place at the top of each player turn. I wonder if this really matters or not. Thoughts? Solutions?
I hope this is more clear.
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The only issue I can see with this is that which ever team gets second turn ends up "losing" their entire last turn due to the scoring taking place at the top of each player turn. I wonder if this really matters or not. Thoughts? Solutions?
What happens if we do one final point tally for BOTH sides AFTER the table section's final round is over?
So, for example, on round 6 of the moon table Team A registered 3 objectives at the start of their turn and then Team B registered 2 objectives at the start of their turn. Assuming that round 6 was considered to be the final played round of the event do to time constraints, what does the game look like if we score one more time for each side based on where the models were at the end of round 6 (effectively scoring 7 rounds even though only 6 were "played")?
Does that make sense?
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Yeah, it makes sense and would work fine. The reason I didn't suggest this is that it promotes a giant land grab on the last turn, which is exactly what has happened (and won) the last two Megabattles... and something I'd really like to avoid (if possible) this year.
Due to the way scoring will work this year, it may still be the best solution.
Another smaller reason is that I really like the idea of having a chance to "respond" to the enemy making it's advances before they are able to score objective points. This is the reasoning for scoring at the top of each player turn (vs the bottom) and for starting the scoring on round 2.
Again though, having a final scoring phase might be the best solution.
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Yeah, it makes sense and would work fine. The reason I didn't suggest this is that it promotes a giant land grab on the last turn, which is exactly what has happened (and won) the last two Megabattles... and something I'd really like to avoid (if possible) this year.
Due to the way scoring will work this year, it may still be the best solution.
Another smaller reason is that I really like the idea of having a chance to "respond" to the enemy making it's advances before they are able to score objective points. This is the reasoning for scoring at the top of each player turn (vs the bottom) and for starting the scoring on round 2.
Again though, having a final scoring phase might be the best solution.
I've heard this Land grab statement a lot. I'd like to point out that in the last two mega battles, the counter assault, which it was had to punch through a huge amount of enemy formations to work. I seem to remember a valk getting shot at by everything on a table plus about 5 flyers to drop it's payload, while the IG counter assault on the bridge was rough and came down to Chaos leaving a whole in their lines for the IG vehicles to get through. Land grab is being thrown around like it was a walk in the park, and while it wasn't if it had been all I can say is shame on the defenders for making it easy.
Thrust, parry, Riposte.
Chaos is invariably a charge kill maim sort of army, and sometimes forgets to guard what it has taken. This year it will be different because they are so determined to win they're pulling all sorts of people in to help :)
But if the first player leaves an objective open for the taking why should the other team be prevented from taking it?
I'd thrown up some point ideas in the other thread, I'll move 'em later.
Cheers,
Alan
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I've heard this Land grab statement a lot. I'd like to point out that in the last two mega battles, the counter assault, which it was had to punch through a huge amount of enemy formations to work. I seem to remember a valk getting shot at by everything on a table plus about 5 flyers to drop it's payload, while the IG counter assault on the bridge was rough and came down to Chaos leaving a whole in their lines for the IG vehicles to get through. Land grab is being thrown around like it was a walk in the park, and while it wasn't if it had been all I can say is shame on the defenders for making it easy.
Thrust, parry, Riposte.
Chaos is invariably a charge kill maim sort of army, and sometimes forgets to guard what it has taken. This year it will be different because they are so determined to win they're pulling all sorts of people in to help :)
But if the first player leaves an objective open for the taking why should the other team be prevented from taking it?
I'd thrown up some point ideas in the other thread, I'll move 'em later.
Cheers,
Alan
These are all valid and good points and make for cool stories.
What I would like to try and discourage via the scoring system is a situation where the primary and best strategy boils down to just piling models onto a certain area each and every time.
I'd much rather see a "Capture and Hold" vs. a "Capture" scenario. Especially where "Capturing" CAN boil down to just moving models on top of a certain spot on the battlefield.
I saw the suggestions in the other thread. I like them. The challenge now is to incorporate them in a way that is cool, fair, balanced, not to complicated, and easily understood by everyone that is playing. If we can figure a way to do this, it'll be great.
Outside of the last turn issue, are there any other problems with the scoring system and how each table contributes to the overall team score?
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What I would like to try and discourage via the scoring system is a situation where the primary and best strategy boils down to just piling models onto a certain area each and every time.
I'll comment on the rest later, but I think we're promoting the same thing. If you're defending against a "Land grab" then you are not throwing your army around like a sledge hammer. If you are then those more mobile units will make you pay. The last two battles were not lost to "Hordes of Order troops" storming onto an objective.
Take an objective and defend it. That does not mean leaving 1/2 a dozen plague marines standing next to it and hoping for the best :)
Cheers,
Alan
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The team that gets the first turn has that first round of free shots. Both teams wanted first turn last year, but Chaos bid real low to get it.
Under last year's scoring system, with the score being taken at the end of the second team's turn but not after the first team's turn, Order had a big advantage in the scoring. I think this scoring advantage more than offset the damage done by the Chaos first turn.
Under this year's system, scoring in both team's turns, the scoring opportunities will be much more balanced. The side with the first turn will still have that first big round of free shots. The team moving second will (as in any 40K game) be able to move fearlessly during the last turn of the game knowing that the enemy won't get a chance to respond. It is easy to be super courageous when you know the enemy isn't going to get another turn. In any objective based game, it can be to one's advantage to move last. One has to be willing to take it on the chin on the top of turn one, though.
I'd say both sets of players know the advantages and disadvantages of taking first and last move. If a team wants wants one or the other, bid low, take the first or last move, and don't whine afterwards about what choice one made.
I do think scoring should be done at end of turn not start of turn. If this is not done, you are effectively negating the last turn of the game. It just won't count. Why play it out?
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What if the final turn's scoring was done based on some sort of kill point system (not Kill Points...) instead of objectives. That way an army has to decide if they want to push during the second to last turn to gain an objective for that final score but leave themselves vulnerable for the enemy's final turn attack?
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Derail-
There was talk of special rules for each table being possible. Would there be considerations for Planetstrike rules being implemented?
If so, the rules for the cavern could be more restrictive in special rules- no superheavies, no gargantuan creatures, no fliers and limited deep striking. This could aid in a very narrative battle but be great for those without lots of superheavies and would keep the battle gritty and even.
Planetside- normal Apocalypse - no restrictions on superheavies or fliers
Moon surface- Planetstrike Apocalypse. No restrictions on superheavies or fliers.
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Derail-
There was talk of special rules for each table being possible. Would there be considerations for Planetstrike rules being implemented?
If so, the rules for the cavern could be more restrictive in special rules- no superheavies, no gargantuan creatures, no fliers and limited deep striking. This could aid in a very narrative battle but be great for those without lots of superheavies and would keep the battle gritty and even.
Planetside- normal Apocalypse - no restrictions on superheavies or fliers
Moon surface- Planetstrike Apocalypse. No restrictions on superheavies or fliers.
No superheavies underground will have to be based on the players registered, I'd not want to tell 5 people you can't bring your toys. Titans should be a no-no for sure.
Flyers makes sense, no Jedi pilots here.
If super heavies go big boom maybe that should make all infantry above move as if in difficult terrain for the next turn :)
Cheers,
Alan
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If how brave one can afford to be on one's last turn is such a big concern, maybe it's worth considering variable game length like in 5th edition basic rules?
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If how brave one can afford to be on one's last turn is such a big concern, maybe it's worth considering variable game length like in 5th edition basic rules?
Heh, that's what games of apocalypse end up being. You play until a certain time, and have no real way of knowing exactly how many turns you're going to get in.
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So yeah Idea: I Came up with an idea for the greatest daemon i WILL be having for the mega battle...
Greatest Daemon of Tzeentch
Pts:999
Gargantuan Creature
Unit Stats:
WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
6 6 8 7 7 7 5 10 -/3+
Fearless
Any enemy psychic power being used while <Name> is on the table will cease to function on a 4+, on a 6, the enemy will suffer an immediate perils of the warp.
Daemonic Visage: All units within 24" are at -1 to their Ld.
Living Icon: Acts as an Icon of Tzeentch and Icon of Chaos
He may make a special stomp attack to affect all those in combat with him with the gift of chaos power.
Wings: <Name> counts as having a jump pack. Because of his bulk and strength, he never has to check for dangerous terrain when landing in difficult terrain.
Master of Sorcery: <Name> is assumed to pass all psyker tests and remains unaffected by psychic hoods. He also is not limited to the amount of psyker powers allowed per turn but may only use each power once.
Pskyer Abilities:
Greater bolt of Tzeench: S: 10 AP: 1 Assault D3 24"
Breath of Change: Range: Hellstorm Template All models under the template take a wound on a roll of 4+ with no armor or cover saves allowed. It also inflicts a glancing hit on vechicls on a roll of 4+
Name of Ability: Place a unit of d6 horrors with in 6" they are treated as if they had deep struck that turn. There may be no upgrades purchased for the squad placed. If a 1 is rolled he takes a wound with no saves allowed.
Do feel free to tweak and or suggest changes. there are no datasheets for this to my knowledge.
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I bet there are at least 5 players on each team that are not planning to bring either a super heavy or flier to this year's mega battle. So, its probably a non-issue at this point.
As for the greatest deamon, has forge world put out rules for the model they just unveiled as the greatest lord of change???
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Just the model. There's no rules at all for it so I helped dan with fair rules.
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I'd like to keep the custom rule things (Data Sheets?) to a minimum this year. It just opens up the flood gates for whining.
Please make an effort to use models or stats that have already been put out. If you MUST tweak something it should more or less be accepted by everyone on here if it's going to be used.
Derek and I know so little about stat lines, special abilities, and point costs... The opinions of many are great, but unless they are the opinions of everyone you can be assured that we are going to hear about it one way or another.
Also, if you are going to do custom stats and all that and it does end up getting the "go ahead" PLEASE make sure the model represents what you've come up with. It needs to be DIFFERENT than any other model. Don't show up with a normal looking Bloodthirster on a bigger base, call it Bang'grath, and have a cool new stat line to surprise your opponents with.
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Hopefully I do get the go ahead and Yes the model itself is very well represented. Its much bigger than Aangrath and comes from forgeworld. I'd have no trouble providing a link to the picture if need be.
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Forge world is releasing a second appocolyps Imperial Armor book. I think the big chicken of change will be in it.
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The question is if they ill release it in time and if I'll be able to get a copy.
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believe it is out already.
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What book? And it isn't vraks III I've looked into it
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http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Imperial+Armor+Apocalypse+II (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Imperial+Armor+Apocalypse+II)
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Well Open mouth, insert foot?
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Its the Imperial Armor 2 book, the deamon's name is Aetaos'rau'keres - Tzeench's Slayer of Souls.
Sadly at this time I can not find any hints as to what his rules would be.
As for trying to make fair rules I would use the current rules for Zarakynel, Scabeiathrax and An'ggrath as a template.
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Now only if I could find the data sheet n such, or at least not have to pay so much for the book.
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http://sanitylost.forumotion.net/worlds-of-warhammer-f4/new-lord-of-change-model-09-t705.htm
The above links to a rumored set of rules for Aetaos'rau'keres. Apparently, someone got a look at a pre-release copy of the book, and tried to memorize. I wouldn't consider it official.
Also, http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Chaos/lordofchange/locp2.jpg for a picture.
Hopefully, someone will be getting a copy of the book in the next few months.
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Dan what model are you getting from forgeworld that is sufficent to count as this bad boy??
Also, I think for simplicity's sake we should go with table bids, I like the idea of one bid. Sadly, it seems to be unrealistic given the pace and set-up differences that look like they will be forming in the tables.
\
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Im getting the greater daemon.
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Short of a few type-o's the FW books are really nice and worth owning. Plus if you are going to spend the money on the model, it would be wise to own the rules that go with it since then it turns into a he said / she said scenario which normally ends up with someone not having a good time.
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Short of a few type-o's the FW books are really nice and worth owning. Plus if you are going to spend the money on the model, it would be wise to own the rules that go with it since then it turns into a he said / she said scenario which normally ends up with someone not having a good time.
I never could find the front armor on a frisbee......
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Short of a few type-o's the FW books are really nice and worth owning. Plus if you are going to spend the money on the model, it would be wise to own the rules that go with it since then it turns into a he said / she said scenario which normally ends up with someone not having a good time.
I never could find the front armor on a frisbee......
Or it's transport capacity or vehicle class...
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MEGABATTLE SIGNUPS ARE CLOSED. EACH SIDE IS FULL.
Again, the enterance fee is $40.00. The payment deadline is going to be Feb 20th. If you fail to pay by this date your spot will go to the first person who can field the 4000 points and pay the fee.
If you can not make it down here to pay, just give us a call and pay with some sort of card.
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...if you are going to spend the money on the model, it would be wise to own the rules that go with it since then it turns into a he said / she said scenario which normally ends up with someone not having a good time.
/AGREE
Please make an effort to own the rules for the models you're using. If you do not own the rules, at least have an offcial copy of them with you... not in your friends backpack on the other side of the room with a sauce stain on it.
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Hopefully I do get the go ahead and Yes the model itself is very well represented. Its much bigger than Aangrath and comes from forgeworld. I'd have no trouble providing a link to the picture if need be.
Please do.
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Actually to stop the whole she said he said arguement I purchased the book. Unless there is some freak accident I'll have it before the end of january
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Dan, I appreciate the effort and respect you've shown for the topic. Thanks.
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Im getting the greater daemon.
Just out of curiosity, is http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Chaos/lordofchange/locp2.jpg the model in question?
If so, what table are you on so I can be on any other table? ;)
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Now why would you want to do that? And yes that is very much so the one.
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Now why would you want to do that?
I have heard that model and demon described as "The Great Chicken." As I understand the rules, any enemies nearby tend to turn chicken.
I'm just anticipating. ;)
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Afraid before it even hits the table?
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Now come on people lets not go down that whole I'm not deploying on that table talk. Its time to break out the brass balls, or in Blantyr's case, Its time to put on the Steel framed bras.
Bring the pain, leave no one doubting that they had to pay for every inch they took in this up coming battle. Lets the terrain flow with the blood of the brave, and reality will rip as the warp is ripped asunder to send its minions back from whence they came.
I"M TALKING ABOUT WAR!!!!!!!!!!
And after we should totally have cake..... just saying
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Well Kevin, what a firey sermon you had there... and I'll pass on the cake... unless its white. Not feeling the chocolate.
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Now come on people lets not go down that whole I'm not deploying on that table talk. Its time to break out the brass balls, or in Blantyr's case, Its time to put on the Steel framed bras.
Bring the pain, leave no one doubting that they had to pay for every inch they took in this up coming battle. Lets the terrain flow with the blood of the brave, and reality will rip as the warp is ripped asunder to send its minions back from whence they came.
I"M TALKING ABOUT WAR!!!!!!!!!!
And after we should totally have cake..... just saying
Beware of preachy orc players bearing gifts of choclate. Just saying.
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Oh I am fully aware of da orkz cheatiness. But I still opt for white cake.
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Can we have cake and then play Frisbee? I'm sure someone is bringing one.
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And after we should totally have cake..... just saying
but cake is a lie...
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The Resteraunt at the Venue has a mean Carott Cake and Cheese Cake
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Bryan... The cake is certainly not a lie... I have seen it. I have beaten portal
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Can we have cake and then play Frisbee? I'm sure someone is bringing one.
The original date the megabattle was going to be on (Feb 20) was my birthday... I was gonna bring cake.
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Would it be possible for someone to post the following:
-A rules summary of what has been definately agreed on so-far
-A summary of the rules that are still in question/up for debate
I just think i'm missing the big picture, as I havn't checked the forums in a while.
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My brain is fried right now... but I'll try to get some of this done tomorrow.
Not much is set in stone right now, I can tell you that much right this min.
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Would it be possible for someone to post the following:
-A rules summary of what has been definately agreed on so-far
-A summary of the rules that are still in question/up for debate
I just think i'm missing the big picture, as I havn't checked the forums in a while.
I can tell you for sure there will be a Frisbee.
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The Resteraunt at the Venue has a mean Carott Cake and Cheese Cake
Do they also serve chicken?
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uh yeah they do. Sorry no frisbee use allowed in the hotel you can only use it in the parking lot.
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Bella's has got the best shrimp cocktail and filet mignon. Who's game?!! ;D
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uh yeah they do. Sorry no frisbee use allowed in the hotel you can only use it in the parking lot.
Well thats gonna put a hamper on the order side then, I guess that means no use of a "Tau" tank.
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uh yeah they do. Sorry no frisbee use allowed in the hotel you can only use it in the parking lot.
Well thats gonna put a hamper on the order side then, I guess that means no use of a "Tau" tank.
nope I guess not
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The moon is going to be a bloodbath. There will be no survivors.
If you do not want to die a horrific death, do not play on the moon.
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The planet surface is going to be a bloodbath. There will be no survivors.
If you do not want to die a horrific death, do not play on the planet surface.
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The cavern is going to be a bloodbath. There will be no survivors.
If you do not want to die a horrific death, do not play in the cavern.
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The moon is going to be a bloodbath. There will be no survivors.
If you do not want to die a horrific death, do not play on the moon.
The planet surface is going to be a bloodbath. There will be no survivors.
If you do not want to die a horrific death, do not play on the planet surface.
The cavern is going to be a bloodbath. There will be no survivors.
If you do not want to die a horrific death, do not play in the cavern.
i guess i'm playing in outer space then...
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Hahahaha! We got em on the run boys! Mabye this won't even be a fight, we will show up, not have a common enemy and kill eachother!
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Hahahaha! We got em on the run boys! Mabye this won't even be a fight, we will show up, not have a common enemy and kill eachother!
I'd run from a ginger too.
I want to bring this up now in case we need to have enough time to talk about it:
What was the decision on deployment after the initial one? Earlier in this thread it was brought up how last year everybody had to deploy in their own zone to start, but then when bringing in reserves could bring them in anywhere where they could normally have deployed.
Obviously this year it will be restricted to which part of the battlefield they are on, but besides that has it been decided if it will be the same? The reason I ask is my titans, who come on from reserves, would find it... sort of cramped to be forced to deploy in one zone, where last year I was able to spread the force out, as would be expected of a force like that, to support all reaches of the table.
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I dunno if it will be that cramped for anyone this year, based on the size of the tables versus the amount of space each player gets.
Basically doing the math I found that each player would get around 27", a little more but I rounded down, of a deployment width. Not entirely sure what no man's land will be, but assuming its 24" that leaves each player with a 27"wx24"d deployment zone. Of course that does not account for any much needed spilling with horde armies.
I personally like the idea of coming in other players deployment zones, it helps promote a team feeling that the game should have. The realistic side of me worries that while some players can handle the diversification of forces abroad, other players get lost in the crowd. This has caused, is going to cause, and will always cause the game to come to a halt as people hunt down players to resolve the game phases. This would be better suited if players left their forces in the hands of players already set up in the general area, but that is a pipe dream
And following the common theme you have to be consistant so I leave it to those far more learned than me to make a decision.
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The deployment zone will probably be 30" deep. A 6' long table with 12" no man's land.
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Yeah, DZ's will be 28.8 inches wide x 30 inches deep. (12" No Mans Land in Apoc).
As far as reserves and stuff, some interesting points have been presented. I'll get back to you on that.
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So chaos wants to take a straw and suck all the fun away from the game and win by turn 2? K just checking ;)
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So chaos wants to take a straw and suck all the fun away from the game and win by turn 2? K just checking ;)
Yes.
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Hey listen Steve you had you chance to join the cool team, now you have to suffer at our hands. (insert evil laugh) (and an evil cough) (I have evil asthma)
Evilness aside, cower loyalist dogs!!!!
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Hey listen Steve you had you chance to join the cool team, now you have to suffer at our hands. (insert evil laugh) (and an evil cough) (I have evil asthma)
Evilness aside, cower loyalist dogs!!!!
I will fight evil like Chuck Norris kung-fu kicking a drug lord in Texas.
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Then why aren't you on the moon?
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Haza a valid point, and your counter good sir?
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Didnt Say I wasnt now did I?
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Didnt Say I wasnt now did I?
That's pretty much saying you're not. Lame.
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He is afraid of 1000 zombies.
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He is afraid of 1000 zombies.
And I love the music of 10,000 screaming manics ;)
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i'd love the moon death and screaming are always nice sounds like the place to be.
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Chase and Derrick - Rick James and I will now be playing Tyranids.
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Chase and Derrick - Rick James and I will now be playing Tyranids.
have fun painting all of that by march 20th
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Chase and Derrick - Rick James and I will now be playing Tyranids.
4 realz?
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Chase and Derrick - Rick James and I will now be playing Tyranids.
4 realz?
Yes.
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F those guys, I'm still playing chaos.
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F YEA !!!! CHAOS!!!!
and i am still an ork>> :P
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F YEA !!!! CHAOS!!!!
and i am still an ork>> :P
Screw Chaos!
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More Tyranids huh? Looks like we will be needing some Tyrinid theamed terrain after all.
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The moon is going to be a bloodbath. There will be no survivors.
If you do not want to die a horrific death, do not play on the moon.
That's a lot of talk right there. I hope you can back it up.
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I always love seeing a comment on the board and having no idea who the poster is because they chose some random internet handle and don't put their name in their sig or profile.
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I always love seeing a comment on the board and having no idea who the poster is because they chose some random internet handle and don't put their name in their sig or profile.
Well my parents always told me not to reveal personal information on the internet because of pedophile and stalkers...
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I always love seeing a comment on the board and having no idea who the poster is because they chose some random internet handle and don't put their name in their sig or profile.
Well my parents always told me not to reveal personal information on the internet because of pedophile and stalkers...
Oh hai there.
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I always love seeing a comment on the board and having no idea who the poster is because they chose some random internet handle and don't put their name in their sig or profile.
Well my parents always told me not to reveal personal information on the internet because of pedophile and stalkers...
I don't want your social security number. I just like seeing at least a first name so I can put a face on who at the game store I am talking to.
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I always love seeing a comment on the board and having no idea who the poster is because they chose some random internet handle and don't put their name in their sig or profile.
Well my parents always told me not to reveal personal information on the internet because of pedophile and stalkers...
I don't want your social security number. I just like seeing at least a first name so I can put a face on who at the game store I am talking to.
Maybe you could ask what colors he paints his army.
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I always love seeing a comment on the board and having no idea who the poster is because they chose some random internet handle and don't put their name in their sig or profile.
Well my parents always told me not to reveal personal information on the internet because of pedophile and stalkers...
Oh hai there.
Pedo Bear FTW!
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Oh hai there.
You seem legit. My name is **** *********.
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I always love seeing a comment on the board and having no idea who the poster is because they chose some random internet handle and don't put their name in their sig or profile.
Well my parents always told me not to reveal personal information on the internet because of pedophile and stalkers...
Oh hai there.
Why don't you have a seat right over there...
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I always love seeing a comment on the board and having no idea who the poster is because they chose some random internet handle and don't put their name in their sig or profile.
Well my parents always told me not to reveal personal information on the internet because of pedophile and stalkers...
Oh hai there.
Why don't you have a seat right over there...
OH NOE ITS CHRIS HANSEN!
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I always love seeing a comment on the board and having no idea who the poster is because they chose some random internet handle and don't put their name in their sig or profile.
Well my parents always told me not to reveal personal information on the internet because of pedophile and stalkers...
Oh hai there.
HAI DER!
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Pedo Bear FTW!
Gross.
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This came up in our forum, I was told it was a data sheet that was on GW but now the player can not find it. We found an unoffical data sheet and this is what it states. Please let us know if this is un-acceptable for anyreason.
Harbringer of Change 500pt
Type: Super Heavy Tank
Structure Points: 3
AV: F14 S13 R12
Weapons and Equipment:
Beam of Power with co-axial Autocannon
Hull-mounted demolisher cannon with twin-linked heavy bolter with inferno bolts
Two sponsons, each with one lascannon and one twin-linked heavy bolter with inferno bolts
Search light and smoke launchers
Beam of Power: rng 72" Str D Ap 2 Heavy 1; Primary Weapon (ignores invulnerable saves.)
(other guns same as per the Chaos Space marine Codex.)
Wards of Tzeench: Any Pychic Power that targets the Harbringer of Change has a chance to be discarded. Roll a d6: on a 1-4 the Ward has no effect, on a 5-6 the power is ignored and the power's caster suffers a Perils of the Warp attack.
Deamonic Possesion: This unit ignores all shaken and stunned results.
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This came up in our forum, I was told it was a data sheet that was on GW but now the player can not find it. We found an unoffical data sheet and this is what it states. Please let us know if this is un-acceptable for anyreason.
Harbringer of Change 500pt
Type: Super Heavy Tank
Structure Points: 3
AV: F14 S13 R12
Weapons and Equipment:
Beam of Power with co-axial Autocannon
Hull-mounted demolisher cannon with twin-linked heavy bolter with inferno bolts
Two sponsons, each with one lascannon and one twin-linked heavy bolter with inferno bolts
Search light and smoke launchers
Beam of Power: rng 72" Str D Ap 2 Heavy 1; Primary Weapon (ignores invulnerable saves.)
(other guns same as per the Chaos Space marine Codex.)
Wards of Tzeench: Any Pychic Power that targets the Harbringer of Change has a chance to be discarded. Roll a d6: on a 1-4 the power is ignored, on a 5-6 the power is ignored and the power's caster suffers a Perils of the Warp attack.
Deamonic Possesion: This unit ignores all shaken and stunned results.
So we take a Baneblade @ 500 points.
Remove it's strength 9 10 inch blast and replace with a D weapon that now also ignores Invulnerable saves. (so no cover or invulnerable against this baby) but no blast..
Give it the ability to ignore all psychic attacks and potentially harm the caster.
I can't remember what inferno bolts do off the top of my head.
Make it possessed, so it ignores all shaken and stunned results.
500 points seems light for this vehicle. I've looked and the guy that originally posted it has no feedback as to it's effectiveness, so we'd be guessing as to how good \bad it is.
I'd be curious to see what you all think this should cost...
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my bad the inferno bolts are str 5 Ap 3 shots
I agree about the Wards of Tzeench, they seem unnessary. Most psychic powers would not effect a super heavy anyway(page 93 of the apocalypse rule book), so there is really no point other than to get the 5 or 6 and cause a perils of the warp. The Possession seems to fit with most of the themes of Chaos vehicles, but I would maybe bump it up 50pts for that .
Using the Shadowsword as a template for this I would price this vehicle at 600pts. Seems fair to me, you get a straight shot with str D denying invulnerable saves, opposed to a 5" blast template at Str D. Your adding two lascannons and possession. This would bring the vehicle up +150pts over the shadowsword. I can't see the denial of the invulnerable save as amounting to much, since you'd only really be good at popping terminators or independant characters. I would think the 5" blast would be more efficent at that anyway. I also doubt you guys would leave one of those characters on his own if he wasn't immune to instant death.
I dunno let me know what you think if this. Making it 100pts an calling it a day.
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Talking super-heavies in a broader sense, I brought my exotic model collection into Battlegrounds Sunday for inspection. I thought I’d show Derek and Chase the infamous ‘frisbee,’ and get their thoughts. We bounced a lot of questions and standards for non-standard models back and forth. I’d like to throw them out with opinions as to plausible answers.
1) Is it table worthy? Is it a good looking well built model that looks like it belongs in a war zone? There is general agreement on a low end standard… the KFC bucket and toilet paper roll model was not up to snuff. I might set the next higher standard. Does it look like it came from a hobby shop rather than a toy store? I shall note that all my exotics actually did come from a hobby store. I don’t know that kits from Revell or Tamiya are of any lower quality than GW’s. It matters a good deal if one takes the time to assemble and paint them well.
Scratch builds might be harder to judge. I am inclined to judge a true scratch build generously. Someone who can make something built from scratch stand up to a professional kit standard will get respect and a generous grade from me. I’ll give a special nod to Paul with last year’s lamp shade Stompas and this year’s open topped Baneblade. Someone who combines solid work with good results deserves a place on the table.
2) Is it WYSIWYG? When you put it down, can one immediately recognize it for what it is? There might be multiple levels of recognition. One might easily recognize Paul’s efforts as Orc Stompas, but not be able to trivially recognize which data sheet belongs to which Stompa. One might recognize Deep Dive Marine’s model as a superheavy flyer with lots of troop carrying capacity, but have to ask if he is playing it as a Thunderhawk. My saucer might be easily recognized as a superheavy skimmer with big guns, but again one wouldn’t be able to specifically identify which data sheet. Even Jester’s Harbinger of Change might be easily recognizable as a Chaos baneblade variant, but as the unofficial data sheet doesn’t include a picture, will it be indisputably WYSIWYG?
I’d like to lobby for a less than absurd standard in WYSIWYG. I think the general capability of a model has to be immediately obvious, but let’s not get crazy with it. If one is putting down a custom model, if someone asks a question or asks to to see a data sheet, the model’s owner should answer the question or show him the sheet. We’ve been doing this in prior years. I’d like to see it continue.
3) Is the model the right size? Can one figure out the front, side and rear facing? I’m going to highlight my saucer to make the rear quadrant easier to identify. I’ll admit that my fighters are small, thus I’m obliged to add a few inches to any enemy attacker’s range. (I’d like to put my models next to a Forgeworld version to peg precisely how many inches.) I’m willing to work with people to be fair. I’m not pleased by those who won’t work with others, who just seem to be looking for excuses to ruin other people’s day.
4) Is it as expensive as a Forge World model? A few players have spent big bucks. They seem to get anal at the thought that other players can have as much fun on a smaller budget. I have little sympathy. I believe we have allowed reasonable proxies of quality in past years and should continue to do so.
5) Some players just don’t like a given model for arbitrary and subjective reasons, go anal, and set out to do what they can to ruin the other guy’s fun. I’ll note Deep Dive Marine’s thunderhawk and my ‘frisbee’ as two such models that have triggered this effect. My response to DDM’s thunderhawk was ‘oh wow,’ while others developed allergy symptoms. I understand that there is some element of taste, but don’t think we should get in the habit of snubbing hobbyists with a strong concept and who put a lot of work into making their ideas table worthy.
While Derek and Chase have blessed my collection as table worthy and WYSIWYG, they expressed a desire to avoid controversy. Thus, they intend to ask around to see if there are objections. If someone disagrees with the standards I set above, and wishes to set a higher standard my models do not meet, fine, so long as any such higher standards are specific enough to be applied to everybody. For example, do we want to set a hard firm criteria about matching size?
On the other hand, I don’t know that the best way to avoid controversy would be to allow a subjective objection from one faction to remove the other team’s models. That seems a hazardous path.
With regard to the Harbinger of Change… I was almost ready to bless it at 500 points. At 600, no problem from me. If you might show hatches sealed shut somehow, with colors and emblems of the appropriate Chaos power, I’d be entirely content.
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my bad the inferno bolts are str 5 Ap 3 shots
I agree about the Wards of Tzeench, they seem unnessary. Most psychic powers would not effect a super heavy anyway(page 93 of the apocalypse rule book), so there is really no point other than to get the 5 or 6 and cause a perils of the warp. The Possession seems to fit with most of the themes of Chaos vehicles, but I would maybe bump it up 50pts for that .
Using the Shadowsword as a template for this I would price this vehicle at 600pts. Seems fair to me, you get a straight shot with str D denying invulnerable saves, opposed to a 5" blast template at Str D. Your adding two lascannons and possession. This would bring the vehicle up +150pts over the shadowsword. I can't see the denial of the invulnerable save as amounting to much, since you'd only really be good at popping terminators or independant characters. I would think the 5" blast would be more efficent at that anyway. I also doubt you guys would leave one of those characters on his own if he wasn't immune to instant death.
I dunno let me know what you think if this. Making it 100pts an calling it a day.
Okay, Psychic attacks with Strength, in reality the only things that could affect a super heavy are gone. So there is a bit more here. How this.
- On a 5 or 6 the power has no affect and the caster suffers a perils of the warp.
I was toying with 650 points until I read Daemonic possession, includes a -1 BS you forgot to mention.
So at 600 with those tweaks I'm happy.
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I think I have to cry nitpick on the Ward of Tzeench.
Wards of Tzeench: Any Pychic Power that targets the Harbringer of Change has a chance to be discarded. Roll a d6: on a 1-4 the power is ignored, on a 5-6 the power is ignored and the power's caster suffers a Perils of the Warp attack.
Alan interpreted this as "Give it the ability to ignore all psychic attacks and potentially harm the caster."
The one page I was able to find with an unofficial Harbinger of Change data sheet ( http://deusexnocturna.blogspot.com/2009/06/two-more-warhammer-40k-apocalypse.html ) describes the power as follows.
Ward of Tzeentch: The Harbinger of Change is protect by the Ward of Tzeentch. Any enemy psychic power that targets the Harbinger of Change has a chance of being discarded. Roll a D6. On a roll of 1-4, the Ward has no effect. On a roll of 5+, the psychic power is discarded, and a psychic power's caster suffers a Perils of the Warp attack.
Thus, on roll of 1-4 the Ward has no effect. On a 5 or 6, the psychic attack has no effect and you have the peril of the warp.
The only psychic power I can think of that might worry a baneblade would be an Eldar Farseer's Eldritch Storm. 2d6+3 armor penetration might occasionally do it, plus it spins vehicles to face different directions. That must be a mighty storm to spin a baneblade.
I don't know if this difference in the Ward rules would be enough to significantly change the cost of the vehicle. Folks don't often try to take on superheavies with psi.
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Brothers in arms. Regrettably I must resign my commision for the Mega Battle. I will be going to Vegas that weekend.
My apologies.
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Brothers in arms. Regrettably I must resign my commision for the Mega Battle. I will be going to Vegas that weekend.
My apologies.
Mmmm.. megabattle, or Vegas? I can see which I'd choose. Have fun!
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Is there going to be removeable terrain this year? I know that objectives will be invulnerable. But, what if a vortex grenade or a vortex missle hits terrain? Are we removing it? or is it going to be considered invulnerable also?
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Certain terrain features will be removable. Buildings, and stuff like that will get removed if they are the target of a vortex grenade / missile.
Features that are "built into" the table or serve some other purpose will be invulnerable. An example of this might be a hill or island and probably the Fortress of Redemption on the Moon.
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Not sure where to do this, but I'm looking for the place to rattle my blood-soaked sabre for the megabattle.
Ah, this is Nate, and my zombies crave the flesh of the living. Hell, we'll toss Necrons around too, just so there's no profilin'. So excited to play!
--NS
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Nate, you should now have access to the Disorder forum. You should notice a link to it at the very top of the page, under the Battleground banner.
Much of the discussion is taking place there.
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Adam S. here. Was told Orks were needed for disorder. Would like to be able to shout WAAAGH in the appropriate spot. Also requesting permission to bring 17,000 points of da ladz. We just couldn't decide who got to go.
Yrs.
Warboss Watzgit et. al.
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Adam you should be all set to view the Disorder forum. You can find the link at the top of the 40k forums page under the Battleground banner.
As awesome as it would be to allow you to field 17000 points of Orky goodness, we are capping everyone at 4000 points.
Please take a look at the Official Rules thread and the Disorder Forum for details.
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oooooooh god, they're here...
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nate+adam on disorder > Steve D. on order.
This message has been paid for by the campaign to elect Barak Obama.
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This message has been paid for by the campaign to elect Barak Obama.
Dirty commie.
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Dirty commie.
Just because we don't want to be part of your imperial theocracy with its inquisitors and xenophobic attitude is no reason too make fun of us.
Now just walk calmly into the hive ship and everything will be OK. Soon your carbon will be creating wonderful little gaunts.
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Dirty commie.
Just because we don't want to be part of your imperial theocracy with its inquisitors and xenophobic attitude is no reason too make fun of us.
Now just walk calmly into the hive ship and everything will be OK. Soon your carbon will be creating wonderful little gaunts.
AYN RAND IS THE 5TH CHAOS GOD
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AYN RAND IS THE 5TH CHAOS GOD
I knew there was a good reason for being an Atheist.
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I am also having trouble locating the link to the Disorder thread. Donde esta?
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Rich.... Freaking beautiful... Ayn Rand...
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I am also having trouble locating the link to the Disorder thread. Donde esta?
Note that under your avatar you are still listed as 'newbie', while most of us are listed as 'order' or 'disorder'. Derek or Chase has to relabel you to grant access to Disorder. They are trying to prevent us from reading each other's boards.
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I am also having trouble locating the link to the Disorder thread. Donde esta?
You should be all set now.
Who are you by the way?
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who the blazes is Steve D?
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who the blazes is Steve D?
I am posting in this soon to be amazing thread.
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I think that khornaguant is Alan......
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I think that khornaguant is Alan......
That would make sense and be fantastic!
Micah has also requested Order forum access. This is very good!
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Hey Chase I need to be linked to the disorder forum too. ::)
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Hey Chase I need to be linked to the disorder forum too. ::)
Bad imperial. Don't you know you are supposed to create a new chaos sounding user name before you ask that?
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Hey Chase I need to be linked to the disorder forum too. ::)
Bad imperial. Don't you know you are supposed to create a new chaos sounding user name before you ask that?
I'll just make a march on the Disorder forum with my titans.
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I think that khornaguant is Alan......
That would make sense and be fantastic!
Micah has also requested Order forum access. This is very good!
Yeah, that's me. Just checking in, finally.
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I am also having trouble locating the link to the Disorder thread. Donde esta?
You should be all set now.
Who are you by the way?
Im Steve D. And I will be commanding the Ultramarines 4th company.
Captain Uriel Ventris will meet this new Xenos thret head on. For the glory of Guiliman and Him on Earth we show currage and honor and shall prevail!
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Sweet the Imperials are bringing Currage to the mega battle, I think thats that spicy hindi dish right?
Well, if we're going pot luck this year I'll bring the Tums...
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Im Steve D. And I will be commanding the Ultramarines 4th company.
Captain Uriel Ventris will meet this new Xenos thret head on. For the glory of Guiliman and Him on Earth we show currage and honor and shall prevail!
Everything about Steve D is amazing.
From that one post alone is it not plain to see how he's one of few to attain "Legendary" status at BG? Everything about the guy oozes awesome.
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Sweet the Imperials are bringing Currage to the mega battle, I think thats that spicy hindi dish right?
Well, if we're going pot luck this year I'll bring the Tums...
Can't have pot luck without a... well... a pot! So I'll bring that. And the water! This is gonna be the best Megabattle EVVAAAAARRRRRR!
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Everything about Steve D is amazing.
From that one post alone is it not plain to see how he's one of few to attain "Legendary" status at BG? Everything about the guy oozes awesome.
QFT
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Im Steve D. And I will be commanding the Ultramarines 4th company.
Captain Uriel Ventris will meet this new Xenos thret head on. For the glory of Guiliman and Him on Earth we show currage and honor and shall prevail!
Everything about Steve D is amazing.
From that one post alone is it not plain to see how he's one of few to attain "Legendary" status at BG? Everything about the guy oozes awesome.
Truer words have never been spoken. Also don't forget steve D is just stunning with his love-glue-gunning.
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I dont know if it has come up in the past 34 pages or so but has Derek or Chase banned the Asset: Jammers yet this year? Its been withstanding for 2 years but always helps to remind new players
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Yes, jammers have been offically banned as always.
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I'll be posting a list of changes we are doing to a few assets later today.
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Do you mean teleport jammers? I thought it was used last year?
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no no no the jammers that do not allow players to talk during setup.
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i have a question about the free dude we all get. as far as the competetion goes, are we being judged on just painting or is it for modeling, converting, and painting?
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Derek is going to have to answer that one.
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i have a question about the free dude we all get. as far as the competetion goes, are we being judged on just painting or is it for modeling, converting, and painting?
Best overall from all the categories you mentioned.
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alrighty
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Looks like I'm gonna have to work on that display tray afterall... :D
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Am I the only one that finds it interesting that the megabattle has been changed to the vernal equinox a day with basicly a even amount of day and night, light and darkness, order and chaos. (ok that last part was a bit of a stretch)
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Am I the only one that finds it interesting that the megabattle has been changed to the vernal equinox a day with basicly a even amount of day and night, light and darkness, order and chaos. (ok that last part was a bit of a stretch)
That is a very cool observation. I had no idea.
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/facepalm
i just finished that unit in science class last week, how did i not notice that?
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Ide love to make a display tray for my 4th company any one have extra foam board that can hold lots of Ultra Marines?
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Ide love to make a display tray for my 4th company any one have extra foam board that can hold lots of Ultra Marines?
home depot
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqcn_TPu4qQ
"Let us rain some doom down upon the filthy heads of our doomed enemies."Invader Zim.
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Ide love to make a display tray for my 4th company any one have extra foam board that can hold lots of Ultra Marines?
home depot
I was looking for Extra foam board. Not that iw ill have the time to make one any way im barely gona finish 4th company by the skin of my nose. Also I need a Melta Gun bit any one have one?
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Rather than digging through pages of posts, what is the name of the hotel in Rockland that the Megabattle will be held at?
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Rather than digging through pages of posts, what is the name of the hotel in Rockland that the Megabattle will be held at?
Holiday Inn (a.k.a. Hotel Steve D.)
929 Hingham St.
Rockland, MA 02370
(781) 871-0545
For anyone interested in getting a room you can call them to make a reservation whenever you like.
I think the rooms are somewhere in the vicinity of $80-90 per night.
Out of curiosity, who is planning to get a room?
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I am curious too since no one has even booked yet with us.
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Don't know if I'll book a room, since I already have a place to stay... I'd stay and hang out as long as we normally would on a Saturday night, but not sure if I'd be staying the night just yet.
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I'll probably be booking a room tomorrow. I havent decided wether or not to stay friday night as well. Check in is usually in the afternoon, we may be a bit busy then on Saturday;) And it might be a pain to do it late, after the game is over.
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I am curious too since no one has even booked yet with us.
I can assure you, the people involved are "last minute" type of guys, myself included. Expect me to book my room a couple days in advance. I'm still not sure if I'm going to stay over before and after or not...
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NOOOOOO ohh the humanity. According to my computer sunday the 14th (the sunday before the megabattle) is daylights saveings. We have one less hour to work on our stuff that I thought!
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NOOOOOO ohh the humanity. According to my computer sunday the 14th (the sunday before the megabattle) is daylights saveings. We have one less hour to work on our stuff that I thought!
horay! less time for me to wait until the 20th! :)
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And one less hour of sleep/ :-[
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Is there a bar in the hotel, and is it likely people will be going out to mourn/celebrate after the event?
-Tim
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Yes and yes.
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Epic yes. My sack full of various whiskeys will be guarding the terminators for the ride to rockland.
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Hmm... The 'must sleep the night before' rule seems arbitrary, unenforcable, not supported by the rules, and conflicts with the fluff.
Passes the common sense test, though. ;D
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Hmm... The 'must sleep the night before' rule seems arbitrary, unenforcable, not supported by the rules, and conflicts with the fluff.
Passes the common sense test, though. ;D
I would like to amend sobriety too.
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Yeah, I'd love it if people could find it in them to put off drinking until after the event is over.