Author Topic: 1850pt Tournament: I want your feedback  (Read 3324 times)

Loranus

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Re: 1850pt Tournament: I want your feedback
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2012, 01:52:46 AM »
I mean Alex Fennel brings a list that is very strong Grey Knights and Necrons but he has a backstory and fluff as well as a paint job to back it all up. I don't agree with Comp cause it hurts certain codexes and unbalances everything more.
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scrambles

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Re: 1850pt Tournament: I want your feedback
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2012, 03:05:04 AM »
I mean Alex Fennel brings a list that is very strong Grey Knights and Necrons but he has a backstory and fluff as well as a paint job to back it all up. I don't agree with Comp cause it hurts certain codexes and unbalances everything more.
I hear where you're coming from, and for the sake of argument there could be lots of drawbacks that I'm not thinking of. I simply mean to play devils advocate by showing that the difference between one person's cheesy 6 vendetta spam list could come down to a very subjective determination of fluff/paintjob.

Ian Mulligan

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Re: 1850pt Tournament: I want your feedback
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2012, 03:39:05 AM »
Its a tournament. Why add a handicap (that in itself adds a way to game the system)?
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Erich

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Re: 1850pt Tournament: I want your feedback
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2012, 08:24:21 AM »
Regarding army list composition, I can only be blunt. We've had the conversation here before. BG acknowledges composition as part of the Player's Choice sheet, and that's as far as it'll ever go.

This is the best choice as there are not any rules (that I'm aware of) for determining with makes good composition other than what another player may think.

Loranus

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Re: 1850pt Tournament: I want your feedback
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2012, 10:40:38 AM »
It was a great tournament I had no real issues outside of my own misreadings. Fun matches with easy to understand rounds and objectives. Tactical Objectives were better than some I have seen in Past tournaments where it has just been Destroy all his Heavy or Fast Attack choices so you get a free point when they don't have any.
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Typhus

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Re: 1850pt Tournament: I want your feedback
« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2012, 10:56:24 AM »
I think we need to start looking at shifting away from Adepticon missions that reward points to more of a NOVA style three objective model.  Adepticon missions do not take into consideration the Big Guns/Scouring rules for additional troops, and with NOVA, you have more defined winners, rather than a points system which can make you lose, even if you win.
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andalucien

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Re: 1850pt Tournament: I want your feedback
« Reply #21 on: October 15, 2012, 11:29:37 AM »
I like the NOVA system better too, but it doesn't work for determining a winner when you have 3 rounds, 40 people.  You will end up with 5 people that are 3-0, and so the top finishes all get determined by tiebreakers, which is points-based anyway.
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Grimwulfe

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Re: 1850pt Tournament: I want your feedback
« Reply #22 on: October 15, 2012, 11:30:14 AM »
I would like to see BG create their own fresh missions from scratch.  With all the effort these guys put in I am sure it could happen.
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Moosifer

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Re: 1850pt Tournament: I want your feedback
« Reply #23 on: October 15, 2012, 11:34:55 AM »
I know folks have been thinking it but not saying it.  Why dont we try out the book missions (sans the relic mission, which was ammended AMAZINGLY at the 1250 event)?

Tharcil

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Re: 1850pt Tournament: I want your feedback
« Reply #24 on: October 15, 2012, 12:09:06 PM »
I'm not a fan of these scenarios for this edition.  I think they work well from an organizational perspective, but I don't feel like they play as well with the 6e format.  I think this will evolve naturally as more tournaments globally make adjustments.

I think that Victory points are more appropriate than Kill points.  The trend has been more models on the table per unit, making kill points less of a factor in the game.  Given the lack of differences in points at the top, having a sliding scale of points earned based of victory points could help with that.

As an example...the numbers here are just to illustrate the point and wouldn't scale well, but should get the point across.
0-200VP difference = 1 point
200-500VP = 3
500-800 = 5 etc.

Another options is to consider factoring in painting and/or sportsmanship as a standard for the entire event from the start.  There is already a huge emphasis on sportsmanship considering the prize, and this would be a nice way to get a few less grey plastic armies on the table (something I'm seeing entirely too much of lately).

I think the best way is to come up with some much more specific and difficult to achieve tactical points.  I like the ones from the book, but a few much more specific ones would be nice.  Warlord Slaying Warlord. Having 1 unit take 3 or more kill points on their own.  These tactical points should never count in the case of a player conceding the game or if a wipe-out occurs before they could be achieved.

Anyway this is a rambling brainstorm so take what you want from it.

Typhus

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Re: 1850pt Tournament: I want your feedback
« Reply #25 on: October 15, 2012, 12:26:49 PM »
I like the NOVA system better too, but it doesn't work for determining a winner when you have 3 rounds, 40 people.  You will end up with 5 people that are 3-0, and so the top finishes all get determined by tiebreakers, which is points-based anyway.

Tiebreakers in NOVA are done by Victory Points, not battle-points, so the top finisher would be the person who went 3-0 and killed the most things, thus deserving the title of Best General.
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Bill

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Re: 1850pt Tournament: I want your feedback
« Reply #26 on: October 15, 2012, 12:36:52 PM »
Many GTs do this for that very reason to break ties that may happen. Keep track of VPs purely for the sake of tie breakers. Maybe this could be something you do in your events Chase.

andalucien

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Re: 1850pt Tournament: I want your feedback
« Reply #27 on: October 15, 2012, 01:56:00 PM »
Oh, that's right.  Just using VP's as the tiebreaker...  there's a difference here from Nova in that Nova's 8 rounds are guaranteed to produce a single 8-0 person as long as there aren't more than 256 participants.  So tiebreakers can never be what actually crowns the champion (or 2nd place for that matter, since there would only be two undefeated ppl at the end of round 7) at the Nova itself.  That's a little different from saying "we know that there will be multiple ppl with perfect records and we'll use Tiebreakers to figure out which one of them won the event".

But, I actually kind of like that idea...  you'd have to keep in mind that, although it doesn't actually help you get a W in any particular round, accumulating victory points is always something you want to be doing & is the only way to actually win if you DO end up 3-0.

So, when considering a format, I suppose it's inevitable to ask "what kinds of armies does this favor"?  If we use pure VP's as the means to rank the 3-0 players, this certainly favors "glass cannon" type armies who are good at killling but not so good at surviving, because you don't get any VP's for having stuff left on the table.

For an extreme example,

if you have army A that has the following scores:
round 1:  I killed 1900 pts of his army, but I only had 150 pts left on the table
round 2:  same
round 3:  same

and army B that has the following scores:
round 1:  I killed 1800 pts of his, and he didn't kill a single model of mine
round 2:  same
round 3:  same

Army A would win.

What if we use VP DIFFERENTIAL as the tiebreaker, rather than raw VP?  Then it would favor neither offensive (like Imperial Guard) nor defensive (like, say, Nurgle Daemons) armies.
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Bill

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Re: 1850pt Tournament: I want your feedback
« Reply #28 on: October 15, 2012, 02:00:38 PM »
This goes to a recommendation I made to Chase in an e-mail and something that Keith does when he runs the GT at Templecon (coming up in Feb.) Every mission uses a sliding scale VP differential as the tertiary in all missions. A similar mechanic could be added in to BG missions. It scales from 20-0 so it would be 20-0,18-2, 16-4, etc etc.

keithb

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Re: 1850pt Tournament: I want your feedback
« Reply #29 on: October 15, 2012, 04:20:15 PM »
I found it worked incredibly well.  Highly recommend it.