Something to point out about wound allocation and Lout Sirs!

[Sir_Prometheus]

Great article on 3++.  Turns out, wound allocation taking saves actually occurs in a different order, depending upon whether the whole unit has the same save, or different saves. 

Essentially, when it's all the same save, you actually allocate wounds after the save has been taken.  So when you roll a Look out sir! roll for say, a power fist sergeant, this is a save that has already been rolled, and you know whoever gets it will die.  But for different saves (say a 2+ character and then marines) it's the reverse, you allocate wounds, then make the save.  So you have to roll a Look out Sir! roll before you know if the save will be made or not. 

It's funny, because I'm sure GW meant all this as a time saving device, but it has huge tactical ramifications.

http://www.3plusplus.net/2012/07/back-to-basics-removing-models-from.html

[Librarian]

Yes it forces a model to use its actual saving throw against wounds. Rather than having a wolf guard in terminator armor make all the saves and pawn of failed saves to blood claws. Its a good thing really.

[Sir_Prometheus]

So I feel there might be some under appreciation of why this matters, and it came up in a game last night.

Yes, it's so you're actually rolling the right save for a particular assigned wound.  But, it has a pretty big tactical change in how and when you use Look Out Sir! rolls.

LoS! is rolled when you allocate the wound.

Now what I think most people did not realize is that there are two different orders of operation here, depending on whether the unit has mixed or different saves.

If all the saves are the same (bolters on IG all in the same cover, bolters on terminators) :

1) You roll all the saves together (at least for each separate wound pool).  Say you fail 3 saves.  Those are 3 uinsaved wounds, deaths, for 1 wound models. 

2) Wounds are allocated.  Say you have bolter marine, melta marine, and power fist sarge, closest to farthest.  Bolter dies, melta dies (no choice, here) and then when it comes to the sarge,

3) You can make a look out sir! roll.  But on a 4+, some other guy is dying, on a 1-3, sarge is dying.


But with different saves, let's say a Grey Knight Librarian in with some Strike squad guys, it's backwards:

1) Allocate wounds

2) Choose to make Look out sir! Rolls.

3) Roll saves.

So say my libby is in front, they get hit with a krak missile (Str 8, ap3), I have a funny choice.  I can look out sir! and make some GKSS, who has no save against it, die.  (or, if I had a guy in back who was in cover, I could shift it to him, and he'd get a cover save).  But, I might decide to take it on the libby, cuz on a 2+ he's fine.  But if he fails, of course, he'll suffer Instant Death and lose both wounds.


This is fundamentally different, it's a bet.  I actually think this, the second, more unusual case, is what people think the new wound allocation usually looks like, but it's not.  Much more often, you're rolling all the saves at once.


Take for instance a SM chaplain, say in, terminator armor, in with TH/SS termies.  Krak missile comes in.  Everyone has a 2+ save that applies here, and the chaplain is closest.  The wound is not assigned yet, but you roll a 2+.  You fail.  You can choose to take it on the Chaplain, if you like, but that'd be stupid, as it would kill him flat out, no matter how many wounds he has.  Or, on a 2+ LOS! it can be assigned to a normal termie, who will also die, but is obviously likely cheaper. 

[Loranus]

But with different saves, let's say a Grey Knight Librarian in with some Strike squad guys, it's backwards:

1) Allocate wounds

2) Choose to make Look out sir! Rolls.

3) Roll saves.

So say my libby is in front, they get hit with a krak missile (Str 8, ap3), I have a funny choice.  I can look out sir! and make some GKSS, who has no save against it, die.  (or, if I had a guy in back who was in cover, I could shift it to him, and he'd get a cover save).  But, I might decide to take it on the libby, cuz on a 2+ he's fine.  But if he fails, of course, he'll suffer Instant Death and lose both wounds.

Here is the thing I think is being misinterpreted and maybe your not doing it on purpose but its how I am reading it. You don't Allocate wounds in any situation now. In the case of Different armor saves the guy up front takes the armor saves until he dies. If he happens to be a Character you can Look out Sir! every time he has to make a save. In the Case of you getting hit in the same situation with a Flame Storm cannon that hits 6 guys. Your going to need to take a Look out sir! each time hes going to have a wound.

So you have 6 AP3 Wounds.

Libby is up front First wound comes in.

Do you Look out Sir.

       Yes: Did it Succeed (Yes: Model of your Choice dies. No: Take Armor Save on Librarian)

       No: Take an Armor Save on Librarian.

Remove 1 Wound from Wound pool and Repeat Process until 0 wounds in Wound pool.



Now for people who understand programming.

/* Wounds in wound pool = W. L=Look Out Sir!. X=Result of Die*/

While(W>0);{
cout << "Hit 1 to Look out sir!";
   cin >> L;
    If (L=1)
      {cout << "Roll for Look out Sir! Input Result of Die:     ";
                      cin >> X;
                     If (X>3)
                         {cout << "Character must take an armor Save! Input Result of Die:   ";
                         cin >> X;
                          If (X<2) {
                          cout << "Your Character has taken a Wound!"};
                          Else {cout << "Your Character Has made his save!"};}
                     Else {cout << "You may assign the wound to a normal Model"};
    Else {           cout << "Character must take an armor Save! Input Result of Die:    ";
                         cin >> X;
                          If (X<2) {
                          cout << "Your Character has taken a Wound!"};
                          Else {cout << "Your Character Has made his save!"};
W--;
}


Some Syntax Errors may be in there. I will debug it later.

[Sir_Prometheus]

No. It does not work that way, that is what I am saying.

It would only work in that way in the case of mixed saves.

Pg 16, I think?

[Loranus]

Page 15 Read from the beginning. You allocate 1 wound to the closest model. Reduce thats model's wound by 1 this is when you would take look out sir. If he makes it you give the wound to another model in the unit within 6". Then you would Assign another Unsaved Wound to the model closest to the Firing Squad. This would be again your Character so you would have to take another Look out Sir!.  In the case of Different armor saves you would do a lookout sir then the intervening model would be able to make an armor save in that case.

You allocate and Resolve each wound all at 1 time. So when he is allocated the wound he would do a Look Out Sir and it would be resolved before the next wound would be allocated which would then go back on the character cause he is still the closest model.

It isn't advantageous at all to have your Character closer to the enemy unless he has a weapon that requires him closer.

[Sir_Prometheus]

I'm sorry, you're misreading it. There are two seperate entries on that page. I can explain it to you Thursday if you like.

[JWebs]

http://www.centexwar.com/WoundAllocation6E.pdf

Someone linked to this chart on reddit, it may help.

[Benjamin]

http://www.centexwar.com/WoundAllocation6E.pdf

Someone linked to this chart on reddit, it may help.

That is the most unintentionally funny thing I have read in some time. It helps, but it also illustrates the absurdity so well.

[JWebs]

Unintentional?! I'm pretty sure that wanted to make it look absurd! From the main part of the site:
"Wound Allocation Is Simple There's so much complaining about Wound Allocation in 6th Edition.  But it really is simple.  Here, just look at this handy flowchart:
You can see the Wound Allocation process is simple just looking at it.  Right?  Right?
Oh, by the way, I didn't include Focus Fire.  Or Precision Shots.  Or Feel No Pain. Or.."

[Mad Dok Rob]

I play Orks....I cannot follow that chart.....