[Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k DOUBLES Tournament - 11/17/2012

[andalucien]

Sorry chase, not trying to be a pain, I promise    It's just that that you aren't actually answering the question...  My question doesn't relate to whether something is a legal list, it's about whether a certain move (reserving all of one player's units) is legal during the game.

[andalucien]

This came up the other night when I was playing a practice doubles game with 3 folks... my teammate was like "I'm going to outflank all of my stuff".   We couldn't decide whether that was legit or not.

[Benjamin]

Chase, this is why you hired Sam.

I believe the intent is the lists are separate from one another. For purposes of effects on the battlefield, the teammate's army is treated as an Ally of Convenience.

With that interpretation, though, I think I'm wrong about about the logic regarding a teammate being tabled despite having models in Reserve. I can't tell you how much I hate that rule. It's beyond my pay grade (of zero dollars and zero cents) to make the call.

[Erich]

This came up the other night when I was playing a practice doubles game with 3 folks... my teammate was like "I'm going to outflank all of my stuff".   We couldn't decide whether that was legit or not.

Seems as long you treat the army as one force and follow the rules for reserves it sorts itself out. Chase stated that, for the purposes of the tournament all armies would be under the Allies of Convenience, so it is no different than bringing a 1000 point main detachment with 1000 points of allies and playing it yourself...you just have a teammate to help make tactical choices, move models and roll dice.

Therefore, half of the units (not points) may be held in reserves. If Teammate B decides to hold all of units in resevers (and it works out that this is half of the units from the combined list) then it is legit. If Teammate A has no units at on the table at the end of turn 1 (ouch), then that team loses the game.

From the rule book.

"When deploying their armies, players can choose not to deploy up to hold of their units (rounding up) keeping them in Reserves to arrive later."

Also...

"...if at the end of any game turn, one player has no models on the battlefield, his opponent automatically wins."

The team is the "player" rather than there being two players.

This is my interpretation anyhow.

[andalucien]

I think we should nip this in the bud RIGHT now and rule that it doesn't work that way.

It happens frequently in these doubles games where one player gets tabled, but the other half keeps fightin' on... are we really going to say that the game ends whenever one player-half gets tabled (leaving aside this whole reserves thing)?  That seems pretty lame to me.

[keithb]

I think we should nip this in the bud RIGHT now and rule that it doesn't work that way.

It happens frequently in these doubles games where one player gets tabled, but the other half keeps fightin' on... are we really going to say that the game ends whenever one player-half gets tabled (leaving aside this whole reserves thing)?  That seems pretty lame to me.

It doesn't work that way.  Allies count as part of the same fighting force.  As long as one of either of your models is on the table, you are not wiped out.

[BrianP]

This is sort of why I hate trying to answer anything.

Your list is your list.  It's not part of your partners list.  They are two armies that fight together but treat each other as Allies of Convenience.

I run into problems saying things because I don't know what the implications are.

The bold makes it pretty clear, and underlined more so.

One player cannot reserve all of their stuff.
One player cannot outflank all of their stuff.
If one list is tabled at the end of the turn that half of the team is done.

We are getting caught up on the "Allies" term and trying to make sense applying GW's allies rules instead of the Tournament's specific approach. This is a doubles tournament, not an allies tournament. We are not Allies in the sense that this is one shared list, that is VERY clear. We are simply two different armies that show up at the same time to fight two other, different, armies. The allies of convenience part was just added so people can play their armies whatever the combination, Necrons and Sisters for example. As such, the three statements above should be true.

[steelforge]

Question about scenarios or turn 1/4 of 6E at this tournament

Is there night fighting or does the potential for night fighting exist?

[andalucien]

Cool, quietdeus, I'm glad it is clear to you.  (also, it seems that Chase's post was edited after I wrote my question... and I agree with the extra words it does seem to lean towards this interpretation more)....

Chase/Sam, is quietdeus right on with his 3 conclusions?

[Erich]

Cool, quietdeus, I'm glad it is clear to you.  (also, it seems that Chase's post was edited after I wrote my question... and I agree with the extra words it does seem to lean towards this interpretation more)....

Chase/Sam, is quietdeus right on with his 3 conclusions?

I agree. I based my post going strictly by the rulebook but that may not be the best course when dealing with special events such as this Doubles Tournament.

[BrianP]

Cool, quietdeus, I'm glad it is clear to you.  (also, it seems that Chase's post was edited after I wrote my question... and I agree with the extra words it does seem to lean towards this interpretation more)....

Chase/Sam, is quietdeus right on with his 3 conclusions?

I did not mean to come off as an ass or anything, I just think we all (both as a Battleground, and 40k as a whole, community) need to get better about asking direct questions and giving direct answers.

To be fair you definitely asked a clear question to which Chase gave you an initially wishy-washy answer (<3 Chase).

When I'm playing for fun I care what the rulebook says, when I'm playing at a specific event I care what the organizers decide. If Sam and Chase rule we all have to wear purple, guess what? I'm showing up dressed as Grimace  . We just need to get a bit better about leaving a succinct list of questions and waiting for the (hopefully yes/no) answer.

Right now we are at:
Can one player reserve all of their units?
Can one player outflank all of their units?
If one list is tabled at the end of the turn, is that half of the team done for the game?
Will night fight be in play?

[Benjamin]

I e-mailed Sam to read this thread.

[Chase]

I'll let Sam handle the other questions because trying to answer them myself is likely a terrible idea.

I can say that night fight / the potential for night fight will exist in all of our 40k tournaments unless stated otherwise.  6th ed seems to incorporate it pretty heavily and we will too.

[Grand Master Steve]

I managed to get the day off so I would like to attend I just need a team mate that can work well with my Ultramarines 4th Company

[Sam]

For the purposes of this tournament, the following will be the case:

1. If, at the end of any game turn, both players on a team have no models on the battlefield, the opposing team automatically wins. If only one member of the team is tabled, play continues.

2. Each player (individually) may choose to keep up to half their units in Reserve. This percentage is based on each 1000-point list, not the 2000-point team roster (ie, one player may not elect to keep his entire force in reserve unless special rules would allow him to do so).

Yes, these two rulings do indeed interpret the word "player" in two different ways. The main rulebook is not written with doubles play in mind, so the rules will not map over one to one in all cases. Please plan your strategy accordingly. Thanks, folks.