Author Topic: Imperial Guard Re-born  (Read 9184 times)

Grand Master Steve

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Imperial Guard Re-born
« on: May 10, 2009, 05:38:36 PM »
those who know me well know I have a very large amount of gaurdsmen and before I picked anya rmy they were my first. Mind you it was ALL PEWTER CADIANS! Yep 2 55 man platoons worth of pewter cadians! Any way I was holding out for the new codex to re-birth this army. I have lots of plastic Cadians to do it. So far roughly the old codex equivilent of 2 fullly loaded platoons. Now I know some have put the codex thorugh its paces with the tournament sceen or have seen it in action. So a few questions from Steve D. to help him decide how to format this army keeping a few things in mind:

1. I Like a balance in my army. Lots of troops and an ok amount of Russ to back them up.
2. I would like to use most of the stuff I spent momney on which inclides old Armagedon sentinels with Las cannons.
3. I hate rough Riders. Seriously, with the exception of some planets I dont think I will see Arab looking dudes riding on horses through a city fight or a winter tundra, etc. Especily since theres plenty of armor and guns to do the same jobs just not as specialized.
4. I want to use Nork Dedog. I loved this guy in the last Codex he was in!

So heres my questions:
1. How should a command squad work now? When I did play they were more then capeable of dealing out fire power and not being bad at counter charging with a Commisar and HSO having some good wargear to do it.

2. What should my Spread of Troops to Tanks be? I noticed a ton of people in the latest torunemtns went Chimera happy. While thats cool, I was thinking of only having a few squads in Chimeras not all of them. I like to keep a balance which im not sure works in this eddition.

3. should heavy weapons be in the squads or seperate now that they are troops?

4. How good are Valkaries? I was thining of using one or two.

5. Armored Sentinels with Plasma Cannons? Should I invest in them since its a weapon that Guard can butcher power armor with?

6. How should my Leman Russ be fitted? Should I use only the  hull Heavy Bolter or a Lascannon? Use Sponsens? If so which ones?

Moosifer

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Re: Imperial Guard Re-born
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2009, 07:02:42 PM »
1.) Company Commands should be used in conjunction with main bulk of your infantry squads.  This squad can issue 2 (4 for the special upgrade) orders a turn.  This is their main job, issuing orders.  With low str, the only real effective weapon that a command squad can take is a fist, or Dedogg, which you probably will take.  If this is the case, mount em up in a chimera and sit them where you would if they were moving.

2.)  The spread of tanks to troops should be whatever you think you can play to enjoy.  5th edition made transports more of a take me unit than they used to be.

3.)  Heavy Weapons are an interesting thing with the way wounding works out now.  If you take Heavy Weapon teams, you run the risk of losing the entire team with a str 6 template weapon since each base counts as a 2 wound model.  I like them in line squads because with the new mob up rule, you can do 5 infantry squads, 2 with heavy bolters, 2 with las cannons, and 1 with autocannons.  You could mob them together to have 1 transport hunting, heavy bolters troop hunting and las cannons tank hunting.

4.)  Alan would be the best bet to answer this, but after the tourney I am thinking on sticking one in my 1750 list

5.)  I think they have a time and place, they are essentially chimera's (AV) at 75 points.  They are not scouts so they cannot outflank but if you can effectively screen them they probably will be the bane of all marine existence

6.)  Again it is preference.  With the lumbering rule, if your tank is suppose to be tank hunting, give it the las cannon and no sponsons so you can move 6 every round and fire everything.  If you are going infantry hunting, take the heavy bolter and sponsons and sit the tank and fire

blantyr

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Re: Imperial Guard Re-born
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2009, 08:40:33 PM »
Observations...

1)  I am also going with lots of troops and a few Russ.

2) I too have 3 lascannon sentinels. Then again, I worry about enemy vehicles more than most players.  I have the 3 sentinels, and a heavy weapons squad with either lascannon or rocket launchers attached to each platoon of infantry.   I go nuts with heavy weapons, but looking at some of the tank parks and big bug armies Saturday, it is possible that one can't have too much tank killing.  There are lots of mech forces floating around these days.

3)  I found some cavalry I liked, but I can sympathize with your not caring for the desert look.  I think rough riders could be effective, but they aren't apt to be used a lot due to taste in models.

4)  I have a model that might work for Dedog, but haven't been into special characters.  Thus far, I haven't put the model in my box.  Have to try someday.  Still, I'd rather have 2 sentinels or a heavy weapons squad than Dedog.  It's just me.

Questions

1)  I am going to try two company commands for giving orders with banners giving moral re-rolls.  My platoon commands are also mixed use.  They too will be giving orders at times, but they were equipped with a plasma pistol and melta guns for tough close in work as well.  Neither are being geared for close combat.   I'm hoping rough riders and sentinels will provide the counter charge for melee.  I've some power fist models that I could play as commissars, but I'd like to see how the army plays without them. 

2)  I don't know that there is an obvious way you have to slant in terms of vehicles or infantry.  Looking at the the tournament Saturday, it would seem either approach ought to work.  My current 2000 point prototype list has just over 100 infantry, 15 rough riders, 3 sentinels, a battle tank and a demolisher, but the chimera heavy lists seemed to work, and I anticipate squadrons of Russ variants being tried too.  With tank squadrons, lists similar to the old armored companies are apt to reappear.

3)  I've moved my heavy weapons into support squads attached to my infantry platoons.  I want the infantry squads to be all lasgun, to maximize the Fire by Ranks possibilities.  Heavy weapons squads of bolters and rocket launchers round out each platoon.  The idea is that each platoon ought to be self sufficient, but the heavy weapons don't have to shoot at the same target as the massed lasgun.  I'm considering adding flame thrower and/or grenade launcher squads to each platoon as well.  I've got the models, but not the points.  I don't think my approach is the only possible one, however.  If you have enough other tank killing stuff, you might not need it with your troops.

4) Ask Alan about Valkaries.  They look like fun and seemed effective Saturday.  They might prove very useful for missions where you have to penetrate the enemy's deployment zone.  That's my current concern with my infantry heavy approach.

5)  Armored Sentinels with Plasma Cannon?  Hmm....   Maybe.  I know my Eldar war walkers tend to die rather quickly.  Lightly armored vehicles with lots of firepower attract a lot of attention.  You might try it.  There are enough marine armies around that something like that will be useful.

6)  I have two Russ currently.  One is designed to take on medium infantry, with battle cannon and 3 heavy bolters.  The other is geared for heavier stuff, with a demolisher cannon, lascannon and two plasma cannon.  Hopefully, the flashlights can handle the light infantry.  I would look at the rest of your army then design your tanks to handle what the rest of your forces can't.  There isn't a lot in a guard army that likes to play with terminators, carnifex or similar monstrosities.  I have found the demolisher expensive but useful. 

I generally stand and shoot my tanks.  Thus, the sponsors make sense for me.  If you tend to move a lot, they make less sense.

Grand Master Steve

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Re: Imperial Guard Re-born
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2009, 06:57:59 PM »
Some note worthy advice so far, any one else have some tips?

the_trooper

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Re: Imperial Guard Re-born
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2009, 07:47:30 PM »
Carve 8 pointed stars into their foreheads!

Grand Master Steve

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Re: Imperial Guard Re-born
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2009, 09:10:43 PM »
Carve 8 pointed stars into their foreheads!
No...

Achillius

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Re: Imperial Guard Re-born
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2009, 10:55:24 PM »
Steve, I'm going to do what I always do here and semi-Punt.

You own enough models to experiment. You're at the store a fair amount so timing is not an issue. I don't think I can tell you how to build a new IG army.

I love the valk and Vendetta. Great models, and fun to fly. I also love the idea of massed armor and massed infantry; maybe artillery. My problem is I love playing all aspects of guard, though to be fair I favor a more agressive approach.

Some opinions for you.
          3 x 10 men squads with three heavy weapons maybe more expensive than a heavy weapon squad but it's infinately more survivable.
          Build a squad, even combined squads to do a Job. having a missle launcher, lascannon and Heavy bolter merge into one squad is a waste.
          tanks scare the crap outta marines.
          5 plasma guns in a stubborn unit scare marines
          More tanks scare marines.
          Orders are fun, but need practice
          Arty is a blast (gotta love a good pun)


Play a couple of small games, I'd suggest 750 up. Get your legs under you. Not having power armour is a big shift for most.

My last statement is this, and it's kept me going for many years. For each list you build pick a theme. build it and play it. Win or lose you'll appreciate the army you built and shoul have fun. 

Cheers,
A



« Last Edit: May 13, 2009, 10:58:25 PM by Achillius »
But the universe is a big place and, whatever happens, you will not be missed...

"When Ghandi advocated his philosophy of none violence, I bet he didn't know how much fun it was killing stuff!" (Raj, The big bang theory)

Achillius

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Re: Imperial Guard Re-born
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2009, 10:59:20 PM »
Carve 8 pointed stars into their foreheads!

Foolish boy
But the universe is a big place and, whatever happens, you will not be missed...

"When Ghandi advocated his philosophy of none violence, I bet he didn't know how much fun it was killing stuff!" (Raj, The big bang theory)

the_trooper

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Re: Imperial Guard Re-born
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2009, 11:36:22 PM »
Khorne is alive and well spawning daemons and carving an empire in the warp.

The emperor rots in a giant golden wheelchair.  He is like some alternate-reality gangster superman.

Achillius

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Re: Imperial Guard Re-born
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2009, 11:46:02 PM »
Khorne is alive and well spawning daemons and carving an empire in the warp.

The emperor rots in a giant golden wheelchair.  He is like some alternate-reality gangster superman.

Coffee shop close early tonight?
But the universe is a big place and, whatever happens, you will not be missed...

"When Ghandi advocated his philosophy of none violence, I bet he didn't know how much fun it was killing stuff!" (Raj, The big bang theory)

blantyr

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An oddity in the orders system. Geeky statistical problem.
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2009, 07:57:33 AM »
I'm a bit strange in liking to collect and paint a huge infantry heavy guard force.  As a result, I've got lots of lasgun infantry in my carrying case.  The orders system is thus a big deal.  My last incarnation of guard under the old rules featured 4 platoon HQs, 8 infantry squads,  and I' just painted up a second company HQ.  If I start fielding all of the above, I can issue 8 orders a turn.  If I paint up a few more models, I'll be able to field 200 ladies at 2000 points.

In a six turn game, that is potentially 48 orders.  One problem is that one order in 36 will be a double six, and threaten to block all further orders in that turn.  This did happen in last week's tournament.  The first order of a turn landed double six, which was a major boon to the other side.

This resolved me to bite the bullet and go with vox communicators.  For 50 points across my army, one can reroll failed order leadership tests, thus orders become reasonably reliable.

Some oddities came up.  The platoon officers have decent orders for lasgun squads, but the senior HQs have a few extra orders that are good for heavy weapons squads.  Heavy weapons squads cannot have vox operators.  Senior officers must give orders before junior officers.  Thus, the higher risk non vox orders must be given before the orders to the infantry.

Is the chance of an extra lascannon hit worth the risk of losing fire by ranks on all one's infantry?  It would depend on the situation, of course, but I'm suddenly less enthusiastic about standing senior officers in the middle of a bunch of heavy weapons squads and issuing orders at every opportunity.  One can do it, and the one in 36 chance of failure for any given order is an acceptable risk, but if one does it regularly and persistently it is reasonably likely that one is going to lose all orders to the infantry.

the_trooper

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Re: Imperial Guard Re-born
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2009, 02:03:14 PM »
Khorne is alive and well spawning daemons and carving an empire in the warp.

The emperor rots in a giant golden wheelchair.  He is like some alternate-reality gangster superman.

Coffee shop close early tonight?

Maybe.  Also, check your messages!

Grand Master Steve

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Re: Imperial Guard Re-born
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2009, 10:09:00 PM »
I think Ive gotten a rough idea how i want my army to be built now. Thanks for that advice guys, Alan yours is the best game advice I have received in a long time. Now....to paint wave after wave of men and throw them their tanks and air ships at robots that have a pre-set kill limit, reach said limit and come out triumphant. Thank you Zap Brannagan for your most famous tactic of all.

Ian Mulligan

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Re: Imperial Guard Re-born
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2009, 12:21:17 AM »
I think Ive gotten a rough idea how i want my army to be built now. Thanks for that advice guys, Alan yours is the best game advice I have received in a long time. Now....to paint wave after wave of men and throw them their tanks and air ships at robots that have a pre-set kill limit, reach said limit and come out triumphant. Thank you Zap Brannagan for your most famous tactic of all.

I am building flamer marines and a greater daemon just for you!
beep bop boop

Grand Master Steve

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Re: Imperial Guard Re-born
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2009, 12:56:56 AM »
I think Ive gotten a rough idea how i want my army to be built now. Thanks for that advice guys, Alan yours is the best game advice I have received in a long time. Now....to paint wave after wave of men and throw them their tanks and air ships at robots that have a pre-set kill limit, reach said limit and come out triumphant. Thank you Zap Brannagan for your most famous tactic of all.

I am building flamer marines and a greater daemon just for you!

I will throw wave after wave of men at them an dhit their pre-set kill limit!