Author Topic: Opinions new Tyranid 'dex  (Read 14897 times)

Chase

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Re: Opinions new Tyranid 'dex
« Reply #30 on: February 05, 2010, 06:53:40 PM »
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Rurouni Benshin

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Re: Opinions new Tyranid 'dex
« Reply #31 on: February 05, 2010, 07:17:51 PM »
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Matt Thomas

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Re: Opinions new Tyranid 'dex
« Reply #32 on: February 05, 2010, 07:29:24 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I97qAyRq_F0

This is brilliant.  Very, very well done and funny to boot!
Rick James looked almost exactly like Hitler in that clip when we tried to explain that the rule really was ambiguous.

Matt Thomas

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GW Editing/Testing still TARFU at Best
« Reply #33 on: February 05, 2010, 11:23:24 PM »
I found another blatant problem in the codex (besides the spirit leach issue).
The swarm lord entry makes a big deal out of the fact that he can use 2 psychic powers a turn... but he never can.
Every power he has is a psychic shooting attack and the 5th ed book clearly states you can not make two unless you give up another shooting attack. With none to sacrifice... he can never use the second power.

For fucks sake GW... hire an editor/rules tester.

Ian Mulligan

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Re: Opinions new Tyranid 'dex
« Reply #34 on: February 06, 2010, 12:17:01 AM »
If the swarm lord is a monstrous creature, he may fire twice.
beep bop boop

Matt Thomas

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Re: Opinions new Tyranid 'dex
« Reply #35 on: February 06, 2010, 08:14:42 AM »
If the swarm lord is a monstrous creature, he may fire twice.
Doh. The rule made it sound like he actualy needed something to sack but upon second reading it seems like it should work though it is still slightly ambigous as it says 'replace the fireing of' but the part before that makes me think it will work.

the_trooper

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Re: Opinions new Tyranid 'dex
« Reply #36 on: February 06, 2010, 10:15:03 AM »
If the swarm lord is a monstrous creature, he may fire twice.

Stop trying to powergame it.

Matt Thomas

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Re: Opinions new Tyranid 'dex
« Reply #37 on: February 06, 2010, 01:48:07 PM »
If the swarm lord is a monstrous creature, he may fire twice.

Stop trying to powergame it.
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blantyr

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Re: Opinions new Tyranid 'dex
« Reply #38 on: February 06, 2010, 08:16:20 PM »
How are swarm lords different from Eldar Farseers with spirit stones (can 2 psychic powers in a turn) or even Eldrad with his staff (3)?  If a specific special rule or widget over rides the default base rule, that is hardly unusual.  That's the way the game works all too often.

Rurouni Benshin

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Re: Opinions new Tyranid 'dex
« Reply #39 on: February 06, 2010, 10:15:34 PM »
How are swarm lords different from Eldar Farseers with spirit stones (can 2 psychic powers in a turn) or even Eldrad with his staff (3)?  If a specific special rule or widget over rides the default base rule, that is hardly unusual.  That's the way the game works all too often.

I've had a similar debate about Psychic powers and certain IC's being able to use more than one in a turn.  (In my case, it was Njal Stormcaller).

If you read the Psychic Powers section in the rulebook, it says that if a model (that is capable of using Psychic Shooting Powers) is able to fire more than 1 weapon during the Shooting phase, then it can replace each of it's normal shooting attacks with a Psychic Shooting attack.  

So in the case of monstrous creatures who have multiple shooting attacks, if it is capable of using Psychic Powers, it can use more than one during the shooting phase, so long as he:

A) Has at least 2 different shooting attacks
- and -
B) Has at least 2 different psychic shooting attacks

Note also that no model can use the same psychic power more than once during any turn (unless otherwise specified in a codex).

Farseers with Spirit Stones and Librarians with an Epistolary can use 2 Psychic powers in a single turn, but never more than one in a single phase (Phases being "Movement, Shooting, & Assault"), because (and correct me if I'm wrong) Farseers and Librarians only have 1 normal non-psychic shooting attack.  Therefore, since you can only replace one non-psychic shooting attack with one psychic attack, that is why Farseers and Librarians can only use one per shooting phase.
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blantyr

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Psychic Power Nitpicking
« Reply #40 on: February 07, 2010, 02:37:28 AM »
Farseers with Spirit Stones and Librarians with an Epistolary can use 2 Psychic powers in a single turn, but never more than one in a single phase (Phases being "Movement, Shooting, & Assault"), because (and correct me if I'm wrong) Farseers and Librarians only have 1 normal non-psychic shooting attack.  Therefore, since you can only replace one non-psychic shooting attack with one psychic attack, that is why Farseers and Librarians can only use one per shooting phase.

I have been unable to find a rule saying only one psychic power per phase, only one psychic power per turn.  (Core 40K, Page 50.)

I'm with you that swarm lords are monstrous, and thus are allowed two psychic shooting attacks.

I agree that Farseers and Librarians cannot use two psychic shooting attacks in the same phase or turn.  Psycher shooting attacks are shooting attacks, and small models can only shoot once.  This is a limit on shooting, however, rather than a limit on psychic powers.  This limit does not apply to non-shooting powers.

I cannot see why a psycher can't throw two non shooting powers in the same phase.   Farseers have five possible powers : Doom, Guide and Fortune are thrown "at the start of the Eldar turn".  Mind War and Eldritch Storm are used in the shooting phase.  Mind War and Eldritch Storm count as shooting attacks, and Farseers can only shoot once per turn.

I don't see why a Farseer with a spirit stone cannot throw multiple start of turn powers.  An ordinary Farseer with a spirit stone might use both Fortune and Guide at the start of the turn.  Eldrad with his staff could do Fortune and Guide twice.  (The staff allows a duplicate power.)

Matt Thomas

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Re: Opinions new Tyranid 'dex
« Reply #41 on: February 07, 2010, 11:38:54 AM »
It seems there is agreement with respect to the Tyranid model so I sugest any further eldar/rules discussion be moved to a new thread.

Back OT What are peoples thoughts on the Tyrannofex (the gunning platform guy)?

Also, what do you think of the transport spores? They seem to me like they would be faily good at contesting objectives (That works right?), given their weapons though I wonder how often the 6" attack will se use.

Moosifer

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Re: Opinions new Tyranid 'dex
« Reply #42 on: February 07, 2010, 01:21:29 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I97qAyRq_F0

This is brilliant.  Very, very well done and funny to boot!
Rick James looked almost exactly like Hitler in that clip when we tried to explain that the rule really was ambiguous.

Hitler was no real man, he only had a stach, real men grow beards!

Rurouni Benshin

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Re: Opinions new Tyranid 'dex
« Reply #43 on: February 07, 2010, 01:22:23 PM »
Bob, after taking another look at the rulebook, I didn't see anything about it saying that psychers can't use more than 1 psychic power during an assault or movement phase specifically either.  I'm under the impression that so long as you're able to use more than 1 per turn, you can use 2 on an assault or movement phase, if it's allowed.

As for the Transport spores that Matt brings up, they certainly can contest objectives just as a Drop Pod would if it landed by one.  When I first played against it though, it was an Annihilation game, and being that it is susceptible to Instant Death, it didn't contend as well as my opponent had hoped.  But it did bring down a Doom of Malintide onto the table, which did it's damage as well before taking 3 Lascannons to the face.

As for it's weapon, if it is similar to the Drop Pod, in that it can't shoot until the turn after it's been put into play, I don't know how effective it'd be.  Is it a buyable upgrade, or does it just come with it to start?  I could see if it were buyable, then players might just forgo taking it if it's only 6" in range, but I've never seen it used before.
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jhobin

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Re: Opinions new Tyranid 'dex
« Reply #44 on: February 07, 2010, 11:35:02 PM »
OT:

The Tyranofex seems a little overpriced for what he does. I think a carnifex with a venom cannon will be more effective in the long haul and will save you some points.
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