Warhammer 40k 6th Edition Rules Questions

[Chase]

Wasn't this covered somewhere else?

I was pretty sure the conclusion was that the Death Ray (or whatever) can't target a flyer.

[Sir_Prometheus]

It got conflated (by me) with beam psychic powers.  Thing is, as a lfyer, a doomscythe cna skyfire if it wants it.  So it should be able to hit a flyer while a ground bsed psyker can't. 

If you shoot at a flyer, you're snapfiring, and you can't snapfire these beam attacks.  That means a doom scythe can hit a flyer with one, while the psyker can't.  Unless the psyker has skyfire, which I don't know how that would happen, currently.  (well, skyfire nexus random objective thingie). 

[Moosifer]

I think it is silly to say that a flyer's weapons cannot be used to shoot at other flyers but whatever.  Can we get split fire for the unit then because we have weapons that we CAN fire but are not allowed to?

[Banosby]

How do blast weapons interact with units that the firing squad cannot see at all?

For example, suppose I have a Land Raider. On one side of the LR is a squad and on the opposite side is an enemy squad with a Plasma Cannon, no members of which can see any members of my squad. The Plasma Cannon squad targets the Land Raider and the blast template is placed so that it covers several members of my squad and does not scatter.

The way I am reading it, the template can wound the models in my squad per the "Blast/Large Blast" rules. But then all the wounds are lost because all of my models are out of LoS of the enemy squad. Am I getting anything wrong here?

Also, does anything change if I am hiding a Rhino behind my LR instead of a squad?

[Grand Master Steve]

I think it is silly to say that a flyer's weapons cannot be used to shoot at other flyers but whatever.  Can we get split fire for the unit then because we have weapons that we CAN fire but are not allowed to?

Says in the 6th ed book Flyers can switch weapons to Skyfire mode.

[Sir_Prometheus]

How do blast weapons interact with units that the firing squad cannot see at all?

For example, suppose I have a Land Raider. On one side of the LR is a squad and on the opposite side is an enemy squad with a Plasma Cannon, no members of which can see any members of my squad. The Plasma Cannon squad targets the Land Raider and the blast template is placed so that it covers several members of my squad and does not scatter.

The way I am reading it, the template can wound the models in my squad per the "Blast/Large Blast" rules. But then all the wounds are lost because all of my models are out of LoS of the enemy squad. Am I getting anything wrong here?

Also, does anything change if I am hiding a Rhino behind my LR instead of a squad?

I think you are correct about the wounds.  I don't know that there's a similar rule for vehicles, however, I know the 5th ed FAQ said that you can shoot vehicles with templates that you cannot see, at all. I would expect similar. 

[Benjamin]

All Skyfire does is modify the BS of the firing model when shooting at certain types (p 42). Since a Zooming Flyer can only be fired as if it were a Snap Shot (p 81), the BS-less beam would not be a valid weapon (p 13).

Flyers with Skyfire can shoot at other Flyers, provided that those weapons use Ballistic Skill.

... at least that's how it is reading to me.

[Sir_Prometheus]

All Skyfire does is modify the BS of the firing model when shooting at certain types (p 42).

Kinda, but not quite.  If you are shooting at a flyer, but do not have skyfire, you are making a snap shot.  BS-less shots cannot be shot as snapshots.

If you have skyfire (which all flyers may choose to, on a particular round) then shooting at flyers is not a snapshot.  Now, this makes BS-less shots fine.

But with skyfire, you are snapshotting against ground targets.  Which means your BS-less weapon can't be used on them now. 

Make sense? 

[Benjamin]

Make sense?

Not really. The first part is fine, but the second...

"Skyfire. A model with this special rule, or that is firing a weapon with this special rule, fires when using its normal Ballistic Skill when shooting at Flyers, Flying Monstrous creatures and Skimmers. Unless it also has the Interceptor special rule, it can only fire snap shots against other targets."

The rule just says that the model with the Skyfire may use its normal BS. Nowhere in there does it say the Snap Shot at a Flyer is no longer a Snap Shot. So I read it as the model using its normal BS when making the Snap Shot at the Flyer.

[Sir_Prometheus]

Ok, see your point, but I think this is where we run up against the imprecision of GWs language.  It's kinda like how they had 3 different ways to say "killed" or "unsaved wound" in 5th edition.  (might still, haven't paid enough attention.

I will argue, that in GW fuzz language land, "normal BS" does in fact mean "no longer a snap shot".

In fact, I can even think of an example.  LR redeemer, with flamestorm cannons, and POTMS.  POTMS lets you fire "one more weapon than normal at full BS".  Now, I'm quite sure that POTMS will let you fire that template after moving 12".  If ti was still technically a snap shot, you could not.  But that's clearly not how they mean it to work.

Same thing when it's moving 6" or less, you can fire 1 weapon (plus POTMS or other special rules) at full BS and the other weapons as a snapshot.  It's not that they're all snapshots, and you're just lucky enough to shoot one at full BS, despite that. 

[PhoenixFire]

Make sense?

Not really. The first part is fine, but the second...

"Skyfire. A model with this special rule, or that is firing a weapon with this special rule, fires when using its normal Ballistic Skill when shooting at Flyers, Flying Monstrous creatures and Skimmers. Unless it also has the Interceptor special rule, it can only fire snap shots against other targets."

The rule just says that the model with the Skyfire may use its normal BS. Nowhere in there does it say the Snap Shot at a Flyer is no longer a Snap Shot. So I read it as the model using its normal BS when making the Snap Shot at the Flyer.

Ben,

If im rembering right any flyer can CHOOSE to use their weapons in either normal or skyfire mode each turn

There was some debating about using potms to fire a weapon in the other mode but i belive the consensus is potms lets you shoot another weapon, not shoot in another mode

[andalucien]

Yes, I think that "at full Ballistic skill" is used to mean "not a Snap Shot".   There is no other specific  term used anywhere for "not a snap shot".

[Loranus]

Ok. I figured this out looking at the Necron Codex and the FAQ.

Reading the rule you must select a point on the battlefield for the Death Ray to originate from and another point on the battlefield for it to end within 3d6" . following this wording the Death Ray can only hit stuff on the battlefield because it travels in a straight line along the ground to cover that distance. Following True LoS if you used a string to travel along the path of a Death Ray from the gun it physically can not hit a flyer model's hull at all without diverging from that path especially with a maximum range of 30" away from the Doom Scythe. The Doom Scythe and other Flyer are at the Same Elevation model wise as well if you mark the Elevation of the Doom Scythe as A and the Maximum distance away B and the Actual Path the Ray travels as Line C you can see that Line C does not a point on that can achieve an Elevation higher than point A Outside of when Line C ends at Point A. Since you can not hit yourself with your own Death Ray you can not hit another flyer. Since its worded that it must elect 2 positions on the battlefield and not in the air above the battlefield you can not shoot the Death Ray at Flyers.

Q.E.D.

[Benjamin]

Yes, I think that "at full Ballistic skill" is used to mean "not a Snap Shot".   There is no other specific  term used anywhere for "not a snap shot".

... which is also evidence that removing the Snap Shot status is currently impossible.

I'm currently of the belief that Games Workshop has a daemonic pact to be paid in full using the tears of frustrated gamers.

[Grand Master Steve]

Yes, I think that "at full Ballistic skill" is used to mean "not a Snap Shot".   There is no other specific  term used anywhere for "not a snap shot".

... which is also evidence that removing the Snap Shot status is currently impossible.

I'm currently of the belief that Games Workshop has a daemonic pact to be paid in full using the tears of frustrated gamers.

That or GW has a pact with the Asprin companies to sell more headache relief.