Warhammer 40k 6th Edition Rules Questions

[Benjamin]

It's not about what Skyfire says, it's about what the "Hard to Hit" rule for fliers says. That rule states that anyone without Skyfire can only make Snap Shots at fliers. The BS doesn't matter in this case; the fact that Skyfire provides an exception to the Hard to Hit rule allows beams and the like to fire normally at fliers. Make sense?

When you explain it, yes.

GW could have said instead, "Models with the Skyfire rule are allowed to shoot at a Flyer as if the Flyer did not have the Hard to Hit rule," or even "Skyfire negates the target's Hard to Hit rule." And then repeated it clearly under the Skyfire rule as well. Writing clearly isn't rocket surgery.

[Achillius]

It's not about what Skyfire says, it's about what the "Hard to Hit" rule for fliers says. That rule states that anyone without Skyfire can only make Snap Shots at fliers. The BS doesn't matter in this case; the fact that Skyfire provides an exception to the Hard to Hit rule allows beams and the like to fire normally at fliers. Make sense?

It does indeed, RAW is pretty simple actually.

Cool thanks.
Alan

[Typhus]

1 Necron Overlord with Warscythe, 3 Doom Scythes, 2 20 man Warrior Squads, 1 15 Man Warrior Squad, and 1 9 Man Immortals Squad with Tesla Carbines at 1500 points. That is a Lot more than 5 dudes per a scoring unit and all those squads can take out flyers, Vehicles,  or massive amounts of troops with just volume of fire.

I still think Necrons are stupid

So you have an overlord with no gear, 4 scoring units that have a max of 24" fire, no mobility, no support, and then 3 heavy flyers that can at most hit 3 targets before they are blown out of the sky, and 500 points to spend on 1 court, wargear, and then an elite or fast.

This army does not scare me in the slightest.

[Sir_Prometheus]

It's not about what Skyfire says, it's about what the "Hard to Hit" rule for fliers says. That rule states that anyone without Skyfire can only make Snap Shots at fliers. The BS doesn't matter in this case; the fact that Skyfire provides an exception to the Hard to Hit rule allows beams and the like to fire normally at fliers. Make sense?

When you explain it, yes.

GW could have said instead, "Models with the Skyfire rule are allowed to shoot at a Flyer as if the Flyer did not have the Hard to Hit rule," or even "Skyfire negates the target's Hard to Hit rule." And then repeated it clearly under the Skyfire rule as well. Writing clearly isn't rocket surgery.

Hehe, rocket surgery. 

But no seriously, GW just doesn't seem to get that they really need to use a keyword based system, the way Wizards of the coast does.  That leaked codex in January gave me hope, as it looked like an amateur stab at such a system, but no.  One of my great disappointments with 6th is continued lack of clear language.  I just felt sure, that by now they would finally get it.

But no, they're a "model company, not a rules company".

It's clear that to them "shoot at normal BS" meant exactly the same thing as "not a snapshot".  But as Benjamin pointed out, it doesn't quite, does it?

[Sir_Prometheus]

1 Necron Overlord with Warscythe, 3 Doom Scythes, 2 20 man Warrior Squads, 1 15 Man Warrior Squad, and 1 9 Man Immortals Squad with Tesla Carbines at 1500 points. That is a Lot more than 5 dudes per a scoring unit and all those squads can take out flyers, Vehicles,  or massive amounts of troops with just volume of fire.

I still think Necrons are stupid

So you have an overlord with no gear, 4 scoring units that have a max of 24" fire, no mobility, no support, and then 3 heavy flyers that can at most hit 3 targets before they are blown out of the sky, and 500 points to spend on 1 court, wargear, and then an elite or fast.

This army does not scare me in the slightest.

3 Doomscythes doesn't scare you....?  Oh buddy, you'll find out, I think.

Anyway, I wasn't going to quibble with the guys list, it was just for illustrative purposes.  But yeah, drop the squads down in number a bit, maybe drop the douche canoe to have the lord on foot with one 20 man squad, add in a veil, and then buy a few nightscythes (because you know, more flyers) and you're good.

And this is only 1500 pts.  Point is, I think. Just like 1 20 man block will take you quite a while to get rid off.  Necrons are durable, yo.  Then the flyers come in and beat your face. 

[Sam]

Before this turns into an endless back and forth of lists and counter-lists, please remember the point of this thread, guys. I need this spot to zero in on new rules questions as they arise. Feel free to post challenge lists in a new thread, but let's keep this one on target. Thanks!

[Moosifer]

I got one more point about that list before I sign off.  15 model limit in the night scythes so lists need to be adjusted.

Have you answered any questions about Night Scythes being destroyed and the contents going into reserve before or after s10 hits?

[Sir_Prometheus]

Noooooo.....I demand they take like, transdemensional warp microwave taco damage, or something. 

[cryptoron]

As a Necron player I'd stay away from the 20 man squads, I used one in the last BG-Plainville Tournament and the longest it lasted was turn 3.  That was with a lord and Res Orb.  Basically to get rid of it all you had to do was charge it.  Then if any models were alive at the end, it ran away.  I keep my troops in the Ghost Arks now.

[Sir_Prometheus]

Yeah yeah. But that's not the point. Point is it'll last until the flyers show up.

[Sir_Prometheus]

So, back to serious questions:

Sam, I asked you tonight, but you didn't have a solidified opinion yet, so after you've had a chance to think about it:

Can a Necron command barge sweep attack a flyer?  Is this the same as a Flying Monstrous Creature's Vector strike?  Should it be?  (the attacks have slightly different mechanics, but nothing is said about it in either case.  Of course, the FMC is flying, and the chariot is not.....)

While we're at it, do FMC's get skyfire?  (I don't see it anywhere, but it seems like they should)

Can Haywire (and EMP) affect Fortifications?  There is an argument, by some, that a Building is not the same thing as a Vehicle. (I was going to ask about gauss, but Buildings don't have hull points)

When Coteaz turns in his powers for random powers from the book, does he give up hammerhand?

[Sir_Prometheus]

Chanllenges:

In a challenge, no one else from the engaged units can damage the challengers.  However, the internets have pointed out, there is nothing stopping wounds from the challenge spilling over onto the unit.  (likely, say when Mephiston or a Tyrant challenges)

This seems to remove a lot of the tactics of challenges (defensive challenges are impossible, powerful characters just want to challenge all the time) and it seems safe to assume they meant it to work exactly like Fantasy challenges.  Thoughts?  (Also, though, there is no mention of a parallel to overkill for combat rez)

[andalucien]

My take on using "defensive challenges" to prevent a much stronger character from hurting the rest of your squad is that it's a loophole and is not in the spirit of the challenge rules.

Picture this if you will:
Bloodthirster charges a unit of 5 Necron Warriors with 2 Lance Crypteks attached to it.

Combat turn 1:  Cryptek challenges the Bloodthirster and dies.  Warriors lose by 1, most likely pass and are locked in combat.
Combat turn 2:  Cryptek challenges the Bloodthirster and dies.  Warriors lose by 1, most likely pass and are locked in combat.
Combat turn 3:  If either cryptek passed its resurrection protocols, see above.
Etc.

Lame.

[Sir_Prometheus]

Ok, I get you, even agree with you, but let's look at the converse:

Hive tyrant charges Tac w/ Fist Sarg.  Challenges.  If he accepts, the sarge dies, plus like 4 other guys die, and the rest of the squad can't hurt the tyrant.  If he doesn't, then then turn the sarg away, and 5 other guys die.  Either way, it's a free bonus the combat monster didn't really need. 

[keithb]

@ andalucien,  That is exactly how it works in fantasy.  Yes, this limits solo charging a crazy combat single model to go crush entire units.


@ Matt.   If the HT is by himeself... he only has 4 wounds... shouldn't be too hard to deal with.  If he is with guard, you can wail on them.   Not much of a change.

It was/is horrendously stupid for a HT/Bloodthirster/whatever to charge into a unit and NOT BE ABLE to attack/hinder the one model in 10 that can hurt him back.  CC needed a bit of a boost.